What is Carmichael Dave saying now?

VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
#1
Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 2h2 hours ago
Some thoughts ahead of tomorrow's show- I don't necessarily care about the losses. Keeping the draft pick is the only salvageable asset. 1/?

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 2h2 hours ago
But at some point- the players have to step up.You guys make millions to play this game. The coaches and whatever might suck, but still. 2/?

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 2h2 hours ago
But at some point- the players have to step up.You guys make millions to play this game. The coaches and whatever might suck, but still. 2/?

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 2h2 hours ago
That's not all on the organization, especially game and biz ops who KILL themselves night after night trying to put out a good product. 4/?

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 2h2 hours ago
The onus is on YOU, the players. Don't do it for coach, or even each other. Do it for the fan bringing his kids with his extra money. 5/?

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 2h2 hours ago
There were people that don't make millions a year that re-arranged their night and will be tired at work tomorrow to watch that turd. 6/?

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 2h2 hours ago
Karl is gone. Many of your teammates will be gone. You will be on a beach in 30 days. Remember WHY you love basketball. Respect the FANS.
 
IfAt1st

IfAt1st

Starter
#2
#2
While I agree with Dave in spirit, it's simply not realistic to expect elite athletes to put on their work boots and slog into work, regardless of their work environment or dysfunctional management.

Most people have no f-ing clue why this organization's morale and ability to give effort is in tatters, but he and other reporters have a much clearer picture - and it matter COMPLETELY where the blame lies.
* If it's just petulant/petty players not wanting to play an owner's or coaches way, and sinking the franchise because they are spoiled, then they should come out and say so!

* If it's owner's/coaches playing petty authoritarian power-trips (and disrespecting elite athletes) with ignorant/incompetent basketball ideas that can't work with the personnel assembled, then they should come out and say so!

There IS blame here, and someone should go on record detailing what is causing this internal conflict - it;s coming from somewhere, someone is the root - and from what I saw on that court tonight, there;s no way in hell Demarcus could be the root it even if he took every player aside and threatened him with a beating unless they played completely demoralized.

That whole team, as one, was completely dispirited and despondent tonight, and I'm shocked there was actually over half an arena full of fans who wasted their time, effort, goodwill, and money supporting this atrocity of a "product."

Dave and VF21 are right in one thing - the fans deserve better.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#3
#3
And as I've said before, to pin this season on any one person (Karl duh) would be wrong. This has been rotten from the top down. Management/Ownership is accountable, Coaching is accountable, and the players are accountable. None of us truly know the whole story. What Karl was promised, what they allowed him to do, communication from not only Vivek but the minority owners. The disconnect between the players and the coach, the disconnect between management and Karl, the disconnect between Vivek and the minority owners... Why is Nancy communicating straight to Vivek leaving Karl out the loop, why was Vance Walberg fired? Why was Dean Oliver fired? The truth about the whole PDA thing? Now he's back in Denver..

Everyone is looking for a fall guy (Karl) and expecting that if we take him out of the picture, suddenly things will get better. The truth is, and we all know this; There are bigger problems than George Karl for this franchise. Fire him, go ahead, I understand it. But that is not even close to the end of our problems. Barely scratches the surface. This level of dysfunction is ten fold compared to the Maloofs.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#4
#4
Vlade is the only hope for stability I've seen in awhile for this franchise. I hope they keep him on board. He has done valiantly to keep the castle from crumbling... It has crumbled now, but he held it together for long enough to where we got to see a level of basketball not seen for this team in a long time.
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#6
#6
Hey Dave, you sound childish, begging, naive. Kings players, most NBA players could care less about the fans. Pro athletes make usual noises about loving fans but the mostly spoiled guaranteed contract millionaires act more like uncaring, big powerful corporations. NBA players are loyal to first their own self-interest, second their hired gun lawyer- agent, third their union, forth their organization/team mates, and last, dead last, fans. Just like corporations are loyal to their share-holders first (actual owners), the corporate board second, company top executives third and last, dead last, the employees.

If you want to see where your pleading makes sense look at NCAA March Madness about to completely take over sports world for nearly a month. This is pure athletics, pure sports passion, fans in constant frenzy, colorful pageantry far beyond what NBA manufactures. Best of all, hungry young basketball players leaving it all on the court every single game of highly intense one and out tourney leading to crowing of national champion, cutting down the nets. Enjoy!
 
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Mr. S£im Citrus

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#7
#7
PurpleHaze said:
If you want to see where your pleading makes sense look at NCAA March Madness about to completely take over sports world for nearly a month. This is pure athletics, pure sports passion, fans in constant frenzy, colorful pageantry far beyond what NBA manufactures. Best of all, hungry young basketball players leaving it all on the court every single game of highly intense one and out tourney leading to crowing of national champion, cutting down the nets. Enjoy!
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There aren't enough of these in the entire internet: :rolleyes:
 
C

carmichaeldave

Bench
#8
#8
PurpleHaze said:
Hey Dave, you sound childish, begging, naive. Kings players, most NBA players could care less about the fans. Pro athletes make usual noises about loving fans but the mostly spoiled guaranteed contract millionaires act more like uncaring, big powerful corporations. NBA players are loyal to first their own self-interest, second their hired gun lawyer- agent, third their union, forth their organization/team mates, and last, dead last, fans. Just like corporations are loyal to their share-holders first (actual owners), the corporate board second, company top executives third and last, dead last, the employees.

If you want to see where your pleading makes sense look at NCAA March Madness about to completely take over sports world for nearly a month. This is pure athletics, pure sports passion, fans in constant frenzy, colorful pageantry far beyond what NBA manufactures. Best of all, hungry young basketball players leaving it all on the court every single game of highly intense one and out tourney leading to crowing of national champion, cutting down the nets. Enjoy!
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Thanks! Having covered pro players for 17 years, this is total news to me. Players selfish and aloof?

That was more for me to vent than my hopes that a player would read it and hear the Rocky music. But thx for the input.
 
SacKings384

SacKings384

Starter
#9
#9
Asking players to play like they care about the game isn't like asking for them to break their bodies for every single point. It's pretty obvious the players have shut down, and I think it sucks that people are just pinning that on Karl. Yeah that would be tough to play for, but at the end of the day that shouldn't excuse players from quitting.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#10
#10
It sucks that the Sixers are playing with more passion than the Kings. Is it because they're not self-entitled yet? You look at team and roster and go, "they're beyond terrible and won't reach 20wins". However, their players play hard day in and day out.

Kings need a culture change and it starts and top, and continues on with the players. This team needs an overhaul because what they're doing obviously isn't working.

At this point, I'm just hoping our draft pick ends up higher.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#12
#12
Im Still Ballin said:
And as I've said before, to pin this season on any one person (Karl duh) would be wrong. This has been rotten from the top down. Management/Ownership is accountable, Coaching is accountable, and the players are accountable. None of us truly know the whole story. What Karl was promised, what they allowed him to do, communication from not only Vivek but the minority owners. The disconnect between the players and the coach, the disconnect between management and Karl, the disconnect between Vivek and the minority owners... Why is Nancy communicating straight to Vivek leaving Karl out the loop, why was Vance Walberg fired? Why was Dean Oliver fired? The truth about the whole PDA thing? Now he's back in Denver..

Everyone is looking for a fall guy (Karl) and expecting that if we take him out of the picture, suddenly things will get better. The truth is, and we all know this; There are bigger problems than George Karl for this franchise. Fire him, go ahead, I understand it. But that is not even close to the end of our problems. Barely scratches the surface. This level of dysfunction is ten fold compared to the Maloofs.
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You know what, I'm going to disagree with you on quite a few of your points. First, according to the ownership agreement that Vivek and all the minority owners signed, he has total control over the organization. The minority owners can voice their displeasure and make suggestions, but they have little power other than that. While I agree with your argument that Vivek made a mess of things after taking over the franchise, you haven't heard a peep out of him since he hired Vlade. I'm sure he has discussions with Vlade, but he's kept his name out of the news, and if he's involved in any decisions, its been kept behind closed doors.

Right now it's easy to throw rotten tomatoes at Vlade, the team, and ownership. But if we can backtrack to last summer prior to the beginning of the season, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this forum that wasn't optimistic about the season. For the most part, Vlade's off season moves were applauded. Everyone agreed that this was a far better team than they year before. So what went wrong? First, the press blew up a statement that Karl made. I believe it was an off the cuff statement at the time that a million other GM's and coaches have made, but in this case, Cousins agent saw an opportunity to get his client out of Sacramento. There are rumors that he even tried to broker a deal that would have sent Cuz to the Lakers. A deal that Vlade didn't even consider.

None of this was inspirational to the start of the season. On top of that, the first 10 or 15 games of the schedule were brutal for an entirely new team. Then, you add in the final ingredient. George Karl! While the team was significantly better on paper, all the pieces didn't fit perfectly. It was going to take a head coach who was creative and willing to adjust to his personnel. Maybe a younger George Karl would have been that coach, but the present one was trying to leave a legacy, and if he was going to fail, it would be doing what got him here in the first place. And with a different team, maybe the results would have been different. I actually applaud Cousins for his effort. I believe he tried his best to adapt to Karl's style of play. And, long term, he may eventually thank Karl for expanding his game. But it was a match made in hell as far as results goes.

I think every year is a different play with different actors, and each must be judged on it's own merits. The mistakes of the past don't apply to the present as far as responsibility goes. The only thing that transcends the past and the present is the emotional culture, which many time has no basis in reality. Until its reaffirmed. In short, and this wasn't short, I went a long way to say, that if broken down to percentages, George Karl bears the largest percentage of the blame. I give Vivek credit for keeping his name out of the news and letting Vlade take responsibility. And I credit Vlade for doing just that. So yes, we have problems, but I think many of them are fixable. We have a 25 year old star to build around. He's not perfect, but sill worth the gamble going forward. It's not as bad as it seems.

Hey honey, where did you put the valium?
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#13
#13
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Every player on the 76ers is playing for their next contract; auditioning for their next team, so to speak.
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I tend to agree with you. I think most of the players on the 76'ers see their situation as an opportunity. Only a couple are perceived as future stars, so their hungry to make a name for themselves. If a coach can harness that, and direct it into team play, that group will start winning games. Sounds simple, but it's not. It's the magic that separates average coaches from the great one's.
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#14
#14
Players are not like big corporations, not many are millionaires and those that are don't necessarily behave like they are. They are basketball layers first and they know what it takes to play well and give their team a chance to win. Dave's messages to the players and the team are likely to influence them. Our players play hard but also get frustrated and distracted neither of which very easily lead to wins. Frustration and distraction are somewhat catching, e.g., about the second or third time Cuz has one of these spots n a game, another player will catch it, get P. O.ed at himself or someone else and as a result will wha-the-hell it for a moment and blow a defensive assignment. It's all very natural and predictable unless they, as a team, are highly motivated which it is hard to say ou team is right now. So any little thing may help for a bit bu sustained motivation depends on team success, being appreciated, and winning. These are the best medicines. So, Dave, keep up the good work.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#15
#15
206Fan said:
It sucks that the Sixers are playing with more passion than the Kings. Is it because they're not self-entitled yet? You look at team and roster and go, "they're beyond terrible and won't reach 20wins". However, their players play hard day in and day out.

Kings need a culture change and it starts and top, and continues on with the players. This team needs an overhaul because what they're doing obviously isn't working.

At this point, I'm just hoping our draft pick ends up higher.
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I do like their head coach. If Philly is smart, they hold onto that guy and reward him with a real roster at some point.
 
Hoovtrain

Hoovtrain

All-Star
#16
#16
He's saying that the organization and coaching is a joke but so are the players for packing it in and not acting like true professionals despite the crapty structure
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#17
#17
Hoovtrain said:
He's saying that the organization and coaching is a joke but so are the players for packing it in and not acting like true professionals despite the poopooty structure
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What, you don't think they gave their best effort last night? I guess the counter argument would be, gosh, I hope that wasn't their best effort, because if it was, then were in bigger trouble than I thought we were. :eek:
 
macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#18
#18
I'm going to repost this here, because I don't want to type out similar thoughts again...

macadocious said:
LOL that the only thing Karl proponents can point to is how good he used to be. I can't believe we have 1 page, let alone 3 pages dedicated to this conversation. I was one of the people that reluctantly wanted Karl here. I did not like Karl when he was with Seattle. I thought he was pompous and arrogant. Guess what, he still is. The problem is, he is coupling that with lackluster coaching from an energy and involvement (most likely due to a combination of health and age) AND he's is completely unwilling to compromise his style of play both offensively and defensively when it's obvious it isn't working.

Here are things that are as close to facts as you can have.

Offense: There are very few plays run, ever. They play the dribble drive which dumbed down is a fancy way to say organized street ball. It's fun to watch when it works, but facing elite defenses it simply is garbage. I actually really like it, it bursts. I think that it's effective if they can get to it within the first 8 seconds of the shot clock. If they can't they should have a number of different sets with ACTUAL plays, that they can change too. They do not have this. Karl has proven on his end of game plays, that he can draw up some pretty damn good sets and plays. Their post up play is one play. Cross screen for Cousins, or sometimes gay with the 2 guard. Post him up, everyone else watch. They run this 8-10 X a game.

Defense: It's switching modified zone. The first Dallas game when Collison was switched onto Nowitzki at the end of the game and he got a no-call offensive fouls from Dirk. I went crazy, wondering how we could allow that to happen. After reviewing the play it became clear that it was intentional. That was the first time I realized that not only are the going under screens and switches called plays, they are directed from the coach. One of the SacTownRoyalty guys did a great break down on how they run a 2-3 or 3-2 zone with screen switches and crash the lane. Karl has admitted this is his tactic. In a league where teams are shooting upwards of 30 3 pointers a game, he is really making sure teams don't get that all elusive 12 foot jumper.


So, with Grants rant and others in the media and the posters on this board who feel the same way who are hammering this team for lack of effort, let me ask you this. How much effort could you possibly give if overtime you went out to play defense, you were knowingly going into a situation where it was complete losing battle if the opposing team shot the ball with average effectiveness. I could probably have done it for about 10-15 games. 60? No freaking way. We have heard all year from the players questioning schemes and rotations. They have no control of that, except to completely not do what the coach says. They are doing what he says, it just doesn't work. At all. I don't even know if it would work in college at this point.

It's really that simple. I give this team credit for lasting as long as they did while being asked to repeatedly go onto a court and execute a fatally flawed system.
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Hoovtrain

Hoovtrain

All-Star
#19
#19
bajaden said:
What, you don't think they gave their best effort last night? I guess the counter argument would be, gosh, I hope that wasn't their best effort, because if it was, then were in bigger trouble than I thought we were. :eek:
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I have decided to follow suit and pack it in....did not even bother watching.
 
fansinceday1

fansinceday1

Starter
#22
#22
It sounds good and all to expect players to play with pride and for the love of the game but come on...

These guys are human, not robots. Everyones ignoring the fact that this franchise is bad. Very bad. This franchise cannot get out of its way and every season for the past decade has been one screw up after another. Do you think this kind of history is just suppose to roll right off these guys backs with no effect? I couldn't even watch demarcus' interview last night. I cannot imagine what this guy feels after wasting his career here. I don't blame these guys one bit, not one, for playing like they are for this coach and this organization. We are right back to the days of mitch richmond welcoming players here with a "welcome to hell".
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#25
#25
mac said:
Definitely ages ago because "Sacramento's playing to win" and "fans are all in" is hardly how I'd describe our current team and situation
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It was the day Dave took off on the Road Trip to visit every NBA city as part of the effort to save the Kings.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#30
#30
Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 4m4 minutes ago
"Steve Jobs did ok, but when you have all those computers and things to help, anyone can advance technology". #KarlLogic

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 4m4 minutes ago
"Pepperoni is good. But without the cheese and sauce, it's really just a lonely meat disc." #KarlLogic

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 3m3 minutes ago
"The Wheel? Yeah ok. But it's the need for the journey that makes it a necessity. I could ride on a square for all I care." #KarlLogic
 
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