Would you do a Demarcus Cousins for Kyrie Irving trade?
- Thread starter ChippZ
- Start date
We could do that trade. Kyrie is a very good guard. But than we have to retool pretty much the whole roster.
We need a second guard, able to create on his own. We need an athletic spot up shooter at SF, that can defend 4 positions. And we need a PF able to hit threes, preferably a small ball 4 like Jamychal Green.
Now WCS running pick&rolls with Irving? Doesn't sound too shabby.
And with the roster above we pretty much copied the Trailblazers.
Problem is the massive overhaul, that would be needed to make this work. This is pretty much a 2-3 season rebuild plan and therefore not very realistic.
Trading DMC for Irving with the same Kings roster as assembled now, would lead nowhere.
That's why this franchise needs to determine, how they want to play in the future first, before they make any moves.
Future GM and coach are the top priorities for this offseason.
And better make sure to get guys, who are on the same page, can work together without undermining one another and can develop a vision for this franchise for years to come.
Because I'm just tired of the constant useless fighting and the rudderless ship.
We need a second guard, able to create on his own. We need an athletic spot up shooter at SF, that can defend 4 positions. And we need a PF able to hit threes, preferably a small ball 4 like Jamychal Green.
Now WCS running pick&rolls with Irving? Doesn't sound too shabby.
And with the roster above we pretty much copied the Trailblazers.
Problem is the massive overhaul, that would be needed to make this work. This is pretty much a 2-3 season rebuild plan and therefore not very realistic.
Trading DMC for Irving with the same Kings roster as assembled now, would lead nowhere.
That's why this franchise needs to determine, how they want to play in the future first, before they make any moves.
Future GM and coach are the top priorities for this offseason.
And better make sure to get guys, who are on the same page, can work together without undermining one another and can develop a vision for this franchise for years to come.
Because I'm just tired of the constant useless fighting and the rudderless ship.
Absolutely not.
And anybody who would advocate it is either lost in hate or completely oblivious about the NBA.
Kyrie Irving is an injury prone SELFISH guard who does not pass, making him unpopular amongst teamamtes, or play defense. He could not win at all until LeBron came. This is ultimate "grass is greener" thinking. Or more likely, Cavs fans hoping for a nibble. If so, your instinct is right Cavs fan. Not so much Sac fans. If that were done, well those of you advocating it would get exactly what you deserve.
And anybody who would advocate it is either lost in hate or completely oblivious about the NBA.
Kyrie Irving is an injury prone SELFISH guard who does not pass, making him unpopular amongst teamamtes, or play defense. He could not win at all until LeBron came. This is ultimate "grass is greener" thinking. Or more likely, Cavs fans hoping for a nibble. If so, your instinct is right Cavs fan. Not so much Sac fans. If that were done, well those of you advocating it would get exactly what you deserve.
With Kyrie it's the same as with Cuz. To win you need to surround him with the right players. And like every star player Kyrie has his warts. The pairing of Lebron, Love and Kyrie is suboptimal, though they win a lot simply because they are way more talented than almost every other team.
Now we failed to surround Cousins with the right personell. Odds are we would fail to surround Kyrie too.
Only reason you do this trade, is if you would think that we need to change to a guard heavy playstyle to win.
And this is up to smarter basketball people to decide (hopefully).
Now we failed to surround Cousins with the right personell. Odds are we would fail to surround Kyrie too.
Only reason you do this trade, is if you would think that we need to change to a guard heavy playstyle to win.
And this is up to smarter basketball people to decide (hopefully).
Here is how I feel about this trade idea:
The Kings have drafted one of the most talented centers to come out of college in the last decade. I am not saying he's perfect, but the talent is indisputable.
Obviously, as we are speaking about the Kings, they decide that instead of helping him lead their franchise by building a system that fits a big center (e.g. slow pace, defensive minded, 3&D complementing pieces), they ensure they hire a coach that increases the pace, builds one of the worst defensive schemes and add pieces that are sub-par at best.
Now, looking at the 'shocking' results their experience produced, they are wondering perhaps to trade said center for a shoot first, run and gun, no defence point guard?
Yes, sounds exactly like something the Kings will do. Sign me up.
The Kings have drafted one of the most talented centers to come out of college in the last decade. I am not saying he's perfect, but the talent is indisputable.
Obviously, as we are speaking about the Kings, they decide that instead of helping him lead their franchise by building a system that fits a big center (e.g. slow pace, defensive minded, 3&D complementing pieces), they ensure they hire a coach that increases the pace, builds one of the worst defensive schemes and add pieces that are sub-par at best.
Now, looking at the 'shocking' results their experience produced, they are wondering perhaps to trade said center for a shoot first, run and gun, no defence point guard?
Yes, sounds exactly like something the Kings will do. Sign me up.
It really depends on whether the situation has become untenable at this point, between Cuz and the organisation.
none of us are privy to that information so It's pie in the sky, if it has reached breaking point, other teams will lowball the hell out of you, so the market value for cuz is probably way way below 2 all stars, his production is undoubted but his reputation, deserved or otherwise still makes him a risky pick up.
I don't doubt Boston would throw you 5 million draft picks and Marcus Smart/Olynik etc etc.
none of us are privy to that information so It's pie in the sky, if it has reached breaking point, other teams will lowball the hell out of you, so the market value for cuz is probably way way below 2 all stars, his production is undoubted but his reputation, deserved or otherwise still makes him a risky pick up.
I don't doubt Boston would throw you 5 million draft picks and Marcus Smart/Olynik etc etc.
Why would you not do that trade? Irving is only 24 and he's a top 10 PG. Arguably top 5. His talent is as high as the sky.
Love was a monster when he was in Minnesota. He just hasn't been fitting with the Cavs.
If you build a team around Irving-Love, we would be playoff contenders.
Both of these players are top 30-40...Have no clue why you wouldn't do it.
Love was a monster when he was in Minnesota. He just hasn't been fitting with the Cavs.
If you build a team around Irving-Love, we would be playoff contenders.
Both of these players are top 30-40...Have no clue why you wouldn't do it.
For me it would be because you'd be trading the one guy on the Kings that improves the defense when he steps on the floor for two more guys who play nearly zero defense.
Also, if part of the argument for trading Cousins is that he puts up stats but doesn't uplift his team it makes zero sense to trade him for two guys that we can say the exact same thing about. I mean, at least with Cousins the numbers strongly suggest the Kings are better on both ends with him on the floor. That wasn't the case with Irving's Cavs pre Lebron or Love's T'Wolves.
That said, if Cleveland were actually willing to do that deal I'd see what Irving and Love could fetch in a three team or four team trade deal. It's possible that it could be more than what Cousins alone would garner.
Also, if part of the argument for trading Cousins is that he puts up stats but doesn't uplift his team it makes zero sense to trade him for two guys that we can say the exact same thing about. I mean, at least with Cousins the numbers strongly suggest the Kings are better on both ends with him on the floor. That wasn't the case with Irving's Cavs pre Lebron or Love's T'Wolves.
That said, if Cleveland were actually willing to do that deal I'd see what Irving and Love could fetch in a three team or four team trade deal. It's possible that it could be more than what Cousins alone would garner.
Why would you have a clue why I wouldn't do it if I didn't offer one? You gave your opinion and that is fine. We all have them. IMHO it's not enough. I want a King's ransom for him. Am I unreasonable? Yes, most likely.
Funky, put up a much more eloquent argument before I posted said it a whole lot better.
Funky, put up a much more eloquent argument before I posted said it a whole lot better.
In a world where Kevin Love on an expiring contact gets you Andrew Wiggins and Timofey Mozgov gets you two first round picks...
F NO!
If this front office doesn't bring in a Kings ransom for DMC, I'll seriously consider selling off my tickets and walking away from the NBA for good. I'm tired of incompetence holding this team back. The constant mismanagement of our front office, our coaching staff and its players is just inexcusable.
F NO!
If this front office doesn't bring in a Kings ransom for DMC, I'll seriously consider selling off my tickets and walking away from the NBA for good. I'm tired of incompetence holding this team back. The constant mismanagement of our front office, our coaching staff and its players is just inexcusable.
I'm resigned to the idea that the Kings will probably gauge the market for Boogie this summer and possibly trade him. But they'd better get back an absolute haul if they do.
I understand a considerable percentage of fans want him traded. But a considerable percentage of fans were also clamoring for George Karl. Vlade's job isn't to appease the fans, it's to build a team that can win. If he feels he can do that by putting the right pieces around Cousins then great. Whether the fans like it or not is immaterial. Because what the fans really want is a winning team.
If he feels like blowing it up and rebuilding is the only way to craft a long term winning team then so be it. But you have to come away from any Cousins trade with a potential building block player. Unfortunately I'm not sure there even is such a guy in this year's draft. Ingram looks like a poor man's Durant but he's far from a sure thing and I'm not convinced that Ben Simmons ends up being much more than a slightly bigger, slightly better Evan Turner. I have only seen YouTube clips of Bender so I can't even really judge.
I never want to see Boogie in purple & gold but if the Kings had taken the rumored Laker deal they'd have:
Cauley-Stein
Randle
Gay
Russell
Clarkson
Or with different draft choices could have had
Okafor (#2)
Randle
Gay
Booker or Winslow (#7)
Clarkson
And then Gay is available as a trade piece
That's a foundation to build on.
Dealing Cousins for Irving or Irving and Love is really just going to mean more of the same - ill fitting parts, no defense and no real hope for growth going forward.
No, if the Kings trade Boogie they will need to roll the dice with high draft picks. And if they do, they'd better make good choices.
I understand a considerable percentage of fans want him traded. But a considerable percentage of fans were also clamoring for George Karl. Vlade's job isn't to appease the fans, it's to build a team that can win. If he feels he can do that by putting the right pieces around Cousins then great. Whether the fans like it or not is immaterial. Because what the fans really want is a winning team.
If he feels like blowing it up and rebuilding is the only way to craft a long term winning team then so be it. But you have to come away from any Cousins trade with a potential building block player. Unfortunately I'm not sure there even is such a guy in this year's draft. Ingram looks like a poor man's Durant but he's far from a sure thing and I'm not convinced that Ben Simmons ends up being much more than a slightly bigger, slightly better Evan Turner. I have only seen YouTube clips of Bender so I can't even really judge.
I never want to see Boogie in purple & gold but if the Kings had taken the rumored Laker deal they'd have:
Cauley-Stein
Randle
Gay
Russell
Clarkson
Or with different draft choices could have had
Okafor (#2)
Randle
Gay
Booker or Winslow (#7)
Clarkson
And then Gay is available as a trade piece
That's a foundation to build on.
Dealing Cousins for Irving or Irving and Love is really just going to mean more of the same - ill fitting parts, no defense and no real hope for growth going forward.
No, if the Kings trade Boogie they will need to roll the dice with high draft picks. And if they do, they'd better make good choices.
Sure, let's be on the other end of the Mitch Richmond for Chris Webber deal. That makes a lot of sense.
I've said it before and I'll say it once again. Sans possibly LeBron James, there's not one single player you could trade DeMarcus for that would fare any better with the same exact supporting cast and front office. No chance. Again, this isn't a DeMarcus problem. It's a front office and lack of complimentary talent problem. The Kings have "talent" they just don't have talent that compliments one another and a there is a complete lack of BB IQ and/or solidarity at the ownership level.
To receive any type of benefit, you'd have to get 2-3 really good players in return. Kyrie is certainly talented, but, by himself, is nowhere close to the return the Kings would need. Even then, if Kyrie can't make it work with LeBron James -- who can he make it work with?
I've said it before and I'll say it once again. Sans possibly LeBron James, there's not one single player you could trade DeMarcus for that would fare any better with the same exact supporting cast and front office. No chance. Again, this isn't a DeMarcus problem. It's a front office and lack of complimentary talent problem. The Kings have "talent" they just don't have talent that compliments one another and a there is a complete lack of BB IQ and/or solidarity at the ownership level.
To receive any type of benefit, you'd have to get 2-3 really good players in return. Kyrie is certainly talented, but, by himself, is nowhere close to the return the Kings would need. Even then, if Kyrie can't make it work with LeBron James -- who can he make it work with?
You have to look at the circumstances around the Love trade. Cleveland was getting Lebron back and they heavily needed to trade for another star. That star was Love, so they over-paid some. Cavs' picks are 25 at worst anyways though.
Love in the 13/14 season is better than Cousins current season. Very close, but Love gets the nod. Better rebounder, passer, scorer, etc.
Cousins also has much more baggage than Love. It's not something you can over-look.
Love in the 13/14 season is better than Cousins current season. Very close, but Love gets the nod. Better rebounder, passer, scorer, etc.
Cousins also has much more baggage than Love. It's not something you can over-look.
Nope, wrong idea for what to get in return for Boogie. We don't want established stars back. We want quality developmental pieces for the future. Because when you trade Boogie, you're basically saying you can't win now and have to start over. So when you deal a player like Boogie, you need pieces back to expedite that rebuild.
A few good trade ideas already on here that make the most sense. Okafor+Sixers picks. Crowder, Smart, BK picks. Gordon, Vuc, Hezonja.
A few good trade ideas already on here that make the most sense. Okafor+Sixers picks. Crowder, Smart, BK picks. Gordon, Vuc, Hezonja.