George Karl - Once and always great? (split)

I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#31
#31
KingsFanGER said:
Why does this team only go as far as Cousins takes it?
What has a potential Cousins trade in the off season to do with this lost season?
I never mentioned patience but guidance.
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patience is competence. It is rational thinking that looks at the facts and makes efficient decisions.

It has everything to do with it. You look at Cousins, and his body of work in the last 6 years. You don't ignore it. The same way you don't ignore George Karl's resume and reputation over his storied coaching career. The freshman from Kentucky was given 6 chances.. So why aren't we giving the hall of fame coach more than 1?
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#33
#33
Kings_on_the_RiSE said:
Basketball doesn't involve simple decision-making. It's complex. As we age, complex decision-making becomes more and more difficult. Please try to understand. When studies are done, obviously outliers exist. It's science. Also....

It's really as simple as that.
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As simple as that?

Hahahahahahaha jesus christ. So when did George lose his coaching powers? It must of been in the last 3 years because he won COTY in 2013.

Jesus christ. What a joke.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#34
#34
Im Still Ballin said:
That is terrible logic. You literally have no basis to make that assumption. Greg Pop is coaching better than ever, and is on track for his best regular season ever. Karl is a bad coach now because he's old? Get out of here with that bullpoopoo. Experience is king in coaching.
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Steve Kerr say's hello to the notion that "experience is king" and in doing so, not just chasing his personal best regular season ever, but the BEST regular season ever. In his second year of coaching.

And please, quit comparing Karl to the likes of Phil and Pop. Pop and Phil won titles, Karl hasn't.
 
K

Kings_on_the_RiSE

G-League
#35
#35
Im Still Ballin said:
patience is competence. It is rational thinking that looks at the facts and makes efficient decisions.

It has everything to do with it. You look at Cousins, and his body of work in the last 6 years. You don't ignore it. The same way you don't ignore George Karl's resume and reputation over his storied coaching career. The freshman from Kentucky was given 6 chances.. So why aren't we giving the hall of fame coach more than 1?
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3 words.

Health and Age.

It's really as simple as that.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#36
#36
Dbeltz24 said:
Steve Kerr say's hello to the notion that "experience is king" and in doing so, not just chasing his personal best regular season ever, but the BEST regular season ever. In his second year of coaching.
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Because him playing for the two greatest coaches of all time, being a 4 time NBA champion, a player for 15+ years, an executive for the Phoenix Suns, and being around the league for a long time had nothing to do with it?

What exactly is your angle here, because I'm not seeing it.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#38
#38
Im Still Ballin said:
Because him playing for the two greatest coaches of all time, being a 4 time NBA champion, a player for 15+ years, an executive for the Phoenix Suns, and being around the league for a long time had nothing to do with it?

What exactly is your angle here, because I'm not seeing it.
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None of that is experience in coaching tho. Karl has all the years of experience he needs. Where is the post season success? Where's this wisdom and becoming a better coach with age?
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#43
#43
Hahahaha this forum is ridiculous. I guess we'll see who's right eventually. I'll put it this way. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we fire Karl and we are in this same exact situation next year. All the while Karl gets another coaching job down the line and does well. Wouldn't be one bit surprised. Please bookmark this one.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#44
#44
Im Still Ballin said:
patience is competence. It is rational thinking that looks at the facts and makes efficient decisions.

It has everything to do with it. You look at Cousins, and his body of work in the last 6 years. You don't ignore it. The same way you don't ignore George Karl's resume and reputation over his storied coaching career. The freshman from Kentucky was given 6 chances.. So why aren't we giving the hall of fame coach more than 1?
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uhm. Unless patience has a vastly different meaning in american englisch than the word Geduld in german, which I'm pretty sure it hasn't - no patience and competence are two completely different things.

It has nothing to do with it. We are talking about this season and not what to do in the offseason. At least I was talking about it. And this season Karl hasn't done a very good job coaching and connecting with his players, which is a necessary part of the job.

And we still haven't figured out, why this team is even worse without Cousins, in a league, where many coaches show, that you don't need star talent to win. In fact Karl is a coach, that showed just that in the past. But with the Kings he only goes as far as Cousins takes him?
He got the Nuggest to the playoffs without stars. But the Kings are a desaster, play no defense, have no structured half court offense (which was the Nuggets weak link too and the reason they were punished in the playoffs) and completely rely on their star.
 
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Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#45
#45
Im Still Ballin said:
Hahahaha this forum is ridiculous. I guess we'll see who's right eventually. I'll put it this way. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we fire Karl and we are in this same exact situation next year. All the while Karl gets another coaching job down the line and does well. Wouldn't be one bit surprised. Please bookmark this one.
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Wouldn't be surprised if this is Karl's last coaching gig ever. Please bookmark this as well. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets 0 calls.
 
K

Kings_on_the_RiSE

G-League
#46
#46
Im Still Ballin said:
Hahahaha this forum is ridiculous. I guess we'll see who's right eventually. I'll put it this way. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we fire Karl and we are in this same exact situation next year. All the while Karl gets another coaching job down the line and does well. Wouldn't be one bit surprised. Please bookmark this one.
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Time will tell.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#47
#47
Would you be surprised if we make the playoffs next year? Be honest. I know I would. Book mark this.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#48
#48
Im Still Ballin said:
Would you be surprised if we make the playoffs next year? Be honest. I know I would. Book mark this.
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I'd be shocked if we lose as much as we have this year. And no, wouldn't be shocked if we made the playoffs next year with a coach that slows the tempo down and actually tried to defend the 3 point line.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#50
#50
KingsFanGER said:
This season is not about Karls legacy.
This team sadly only goes as far as Cousins can carry it.
A great coach should have found a way to win games even without Cousins but with a well thought out system.
Karl couldn't achieve that.
What's makes things worse is that he allowed for a gap to built between his star player and himself. He suspended Cousins without communicating afterwards. What is this supposed to fix?
Karl needs Cousins to win, but he isn't even trying to get him back on track.
That's not impressive coaching....

This stupid my court, my rules game is so middle school.
Sports franchises are at the mercy of the players. Cousins was extremely loyal this far. You don't win players with childish authority games, but with competence and guidance and ideas, that lead to wins.
Karl has lost Cousins and while Cousins sure has played his part a good head coach can't allow that to happen, because it hurts the teams chances to win.
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Neither could Kings legend Malone that's despite having a great relationship with Cousins and having a 37% winning record while preaching defense.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#51
#51
KingMilz said:
Neither could Kings legend Malone that's despite having a great relationship with Cousins and having a 37% winning record while preaching defense.
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True. This is why I wouldn't consider Malone a great coach. He sidelined with Cousins and was a very good defensive coordinator. I'll give him that. But he certainly wasn't a great NBA coach. Now he might learn and improve and sure was the best coach we had here in Cousins career.
Karl should do better than Malone, if you take his legacy into account. But the fact is - he isn't doing better.
And I will point the same things out with Karl, that I pointed out with Malone - being so dependant on the individual talent of one star player is indicating that the coach isn't doing a great job.
With Karl it might be even worse, because you have the feeling, that Rondo is pretty much solely orchestrating our offense.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#52
#52
KingMilz said:
Neither could Kings legend Malone that's despite having a great relationship with Cousins and having a 37% winning record while preaching defense.
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Michael Malone only got to coach about 1 month of real basketball with the Kings.

George Karl has had a completely stable roster all season long. No changes. Most of the guys established vets from good teams.

Michael Malone's first season as coach featured 23 players shuffling through town, only 3 of whom were 30 or older, 17 different starters, only one of whom started more than 61 games, 3 major trades etc. That was no test of coaching ability. That was open tryouts.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#53
#53
Mike Malone just hasn't proven he is a good head coach yet, unlike savvy hall of fame veteran George Karl

The book is still open for him. The Gallo injury hurts.
 
K

Kings_on_the_RiSE

G-League
#54
#54
Let's conclude this discussion by saying that Karl is a lame duck. Thibs is coming in and will change the culture next season. That's how it will start turning around. Putting a plan in place is what it's all about.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#56
#56
ESP47 said:
Well he's doing better than us this year with a roster that is basically crap. We are better at nearly every position, yet they are 2 games ahead of us.
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He hasn't proven himself to be a winning coach. George Karl has.
 
whozit

whozit

Starter
#57
#57
Im Still Ballin said:
He hasn't proven himself to be a winning coach. George Karl has.
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Malone's team has a better record than Karl's. With arguably less. If he hasn't proven himself as a winning coach, what does that make Karl currently? A loser? Or maybe simply a coach whose better days are behind him.

George Karl had proven himself a winning coach. Past tense! Time takes its toll on all of us. Past and present are two different things.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
#58
#58
whozit said:
Malone's team has a better record than Karl's. With arguably less. If he hasn't proven himself as a winning coach, what does that make Karl currently? A loser? Or maybe simply a coach whose better days are behind him.

George Karl had proven himself a winning coach. Past tense! Time takes its toll on all of us. Past and present are two different things.
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You'll find the odd one out of the equation is this organization and it's players. Karl can't have become what you think he is because he had won COTY only 2-3 years ago. He's the same coach he's always been, just as Adelman didn't magically become bad in Minnesota, or Phil Jackson in 2005, or Greg Pop in his first year. He's still the same guy, the same coach.

I don't just believe coaches change as soon as they have a losing season. A bit of competence would do this franchise some good. It's not going to send a good message if we fire Karl. Any chance of hiring a big time coach would be gone. Thibs would most definitely be out of the question.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#59
#59
Im Still Ballin said:
He hasn't proven himself to be a winning coach. George Karl has.
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The quote from the poster above about Jerry Rice not making the Seahawks better was pretty spot on. Karl's record speaks for itself but 2016 Karl is not coaching like a hall of famer. The defensive scheme that they're running is his responsibility and it's a massive failure and an embarrassment to the game. It's like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole for 82 games. He flat out failed his responsibilities as a coach based on that alone.
 
Chubbs

Chubbs

Starter
#60
#60
George Karl is currently the worst coach in the NBA. I can't deny his resume. But we are dealing in the right now. And the right now, this moment, it's toxic waste bad.

I don't think there's a coach in the league doing less with more. He's got a current all star, all NBA player. Another 4 time all star in the starting lineup. A career 20 ppt who used to be as reliable as it gets.

And the team has lost 5 in a row and is in a horrible free fall in all ways. He's failed to develop youth. He's failed to connect with his stars (forget Demarcus for a second, what the **** happened to Rudy?). He's failed to connect with his non stars. He's failed to connect with the fans and the media (minus his spokesperson Ailene). Everyone. Karl is on an island right now.

And for me, I'm not mad at George. Not anymore. It's sadness. It's very hard to watch someone great become mediocre, or worse. To go from the loudest, biggest personality in any room, to a barely audible whisper. It's uncomfortable for everyone.

I like this lyric from a favorite band of mine.

'Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it.
For you the blind, who once could see,
The bell tolls for thee.''

I can hear the bells ringing calling George home to his family. It's time to go. He's hardly the last great coach, great player, to have it end with a whimper. There's no shame in it.

But the end has to come. And sometimes someone has to tell them it's over.

That's you Vlade. Good luck.
 
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