CBS Article: Ten things to know about the insanely thrilling and frustrating Kings

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Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#1
#1
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...-the-insanely-thrilling-and-frustrating-kings

"5. Let's not act like Boogie is the defensive problem here: Here are the defensive ratings for the George Karl teams in Denver over his final few years there. Eleventh, 20th, 16th, 16th, 8th, 10th and 11th. Last year they were 28th and this season they are 21st. They're a bad defense.
But they struggle in very specific ways. The Kings rank middle of the pack in pick and roll defense, guarding against cuts, and against offensive putbacks, via Synergy Sports. But they are 26th in giving up transition points, 28th in giving up points off turnovers and 25th in opponent fastbreak points per game. Some of that is just the pace they play up, but they also surrender 1.15 points per transition opportunity, and that's bad. The Kings are also 23rd in isolation defense."



Interesting article on the Kings written by an outsider Matt Moore who claims he watches a lot of Kings games.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#3
#3
Okay, Peter focused on one paragraph in the whole thing, but everybody should read that entire article from front to back. Its about as good and thorough a Kings article as you are ever going to get from a national source. Ton of good stuff in there.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#4
#4
Geat article! Aaron Bruski and Matt Moore have been spot on about the Kings for a while now. One of the better articles you are going to find about the Kings out there.

It just goes to show that this roster should be a lot better than what it is with Karl's system in place (both defensively and offensively).
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#5
#5
Bricklayer said:
Okay, Peter focused on one paragraph in the whole thing, but everybody should read that entire article from front to back. Its about as good and thorough a Kings article as you are ever going to get from a national source. Ton of good stuff in there.
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agreed. it's a very strong piece overall, and it's nice to see a national writer highlight the same problems and incongruencies between this roster and its coach that many of us regularly highlight...
 
EIM86

EIM86

Starter
#7
#7
I think the experiment is over and we need to pull the trigger and get Thibs or some other coach. We simply cannot play fast like Karl wants us to. Also, that switching on defense garbage is not working. Why not just fight over the screen and D up!
 
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swisshh

Starter
#8
#8
Moore is one of the national press guys that I interact with in a social media space capacity and he's been good discussion overall. He also has written on Malone and the Nuggets a lot. Tends to focus on Grizz and Denver, but is more knowledgeable on the Kings than many national guys.
 
Chubbs

Chubbs

Starter
#9
#9
Yeah the problem with the system is glaring.

And lately the team has quit.

Karl's days are numbered. Even Grant came after him on the radio today. Said you have to put the slow starts lately on the coach. It's the coaches job to get guys ready to play and that's not happening.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#10
#10
It's a dilemma for Vlade as you know he wants stability, knows stability is a necessary thing but he needs to get HIS coach in place. Vlade is an intelligent man and I bet he'd embrace any system Karl would run if it led to wins but lets face, he's an old school basketball guy who KNOWS that defense wins. You can have pace if you want but defense is a necessity and Karl's system sucks.
 
P

Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#11
#11
Bricklayer said:
Okay, Peter focused on one paragraph in the whole thing, but everybody should read that entire article from front to back. Its about as good and thorough a Kings article as you are ever going to get from a national source. Ton of good stuff in there.
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Yup, I quoted the part about defense because that's a hotly debated topic by everyone here right now. But the writer nailed it on many fronts.


Another huge issue that I've had with Karl is misusing Cousins by positioning him away from the basket. Anytime Cousins is away from the post, we are bailing the opposition out. This quote below by Mike Malone about says it all. Something many of us fans can also see but Karl does not agree.

"Let's consider, however, what Cousins' favorite coach, Michael Malone, said about his new trend:

"Look at DeMarcus' numbers. He can score in the post with his back to the basket, he can score facing the basket. This year, he's shooting the [3-pointer], which I'm not a big fan of to be honest, because it takes him away from where he's most effective.""
 
P

Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#12
#12
EIM86 said:
I think the experiment is over and we need to pull the trigger and get Thibs or some other coach. We simply cannot play fast like Karl wants us to. Also, that switching on defense garbage is not working. Why not just fight over the screen and D up!
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A lot of times we simply don't have the energy to keep up on both ends. When you are a 6'11" hulking center playing the #1 pace offense, you don't have much left on defense and that's not Cousins' fault. Our perimeter defense is horrendous and many times, our bigs just don't have the energy to keep running up and down and be active on defense.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#14
#14
Peter_Gibbons said:
Yup, I quoted the part about defense because that's a hotly debated topic by everyone here right now. But the writer nailed it on many fronts.


Another huge issue that I've had with Karl is misusing Cousins by positioning him away from the basket. Anytime Cousins is away from the post, we are bailing the opposition out. This quote below by Mike Malone about says it all. Something many of us fans can also see but Karl does not agree.

"Let's consider, however, what Cousins' favorite coach, Michael Malone, said about his new trend:

"Look at DeMarcus' numbers. He can score in the post with his back to the basket, he can score facing the basket. This year, he's shooting the [3-pointer], which I'm not a big fan of to be honest, because it takes him away from where he's most effective.""
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Certainly Cousins doesn't have to park his butt in the post 100% of the time. Gay can use a little bit of that space when he has the ball. I'm not trying to start an argument. I wonder what would happen if we parked Cuz on the left short three spot. :) Look what happened when Rondo was on the right.

I am sure we are in agreement that Cuz should spend a majority of his time down low and come out and set screens. He is not a three point shooter but sometimes that may fit the offense.
 
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P

Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#15
#15
dude12 said:
It's a dilemma for Vlade as you know he wants stability, knows stability is a necessary thing but he needs to get HIS coach in place. Vlade is an intelligent man and I bet he'd embrace any system Karl would run if it led to wins but lets face, he's an old school basketball guy who KNOWS that defense wins. You can have pace if you want but defense is a necessity and Karl's system sucks.
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That dilemma is about all that's keeping Karl's job safe up until now. I can't see Thibs or any other capable coach willing to step into our situation mid season. While the team's performance would justify a coaching change, prominent coaches such as Thibodeau wouldn't want to seem like he is taking Karl's job like that.

But now, if somehow Vlade can get Karl to resign...:rolleyes:
 
P

Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#17
#17
Glenn said:
Certainly Cousins doesn't have to park his butt in the post 100% of the time. Gay can use a little bit of that space when he has the ball. I'm not trying to start and argument. I wonder what would happen if we parked Cuz on the left short three spot. :) Look what happened when Rondo was on the right.

I am sure we are in agreement that Cuz should spend a majority of his time down low and come out and set screens. He is not a three point shooter but sometimes that may fit the offense.
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Agreed. Cousins should either be posting up or operating at the high post like Webber used to. He has a nice mid range and good enough vision to make plays for others in a triple threat situation when he's not punishing opponents on the low block. But right now, many times Cousins trails the play and ends up standing around the 3 point line while his defender is thanking him secretly for doing that.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#18
#18
Peter_Gibbons said:
That dilemma is about all that's keeping Karl's job safe up until now. I can't see Thibs or any other capable coach willing to step into our situation mid season. While the team's performance would justify a coaching change, prominent coaches such as Thibodeau wouldn't want to seem like he is taking Karl's job like that.

But now, if somehow Vlade can get Karl to resign...:rolleyes:
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Karl has walked out of pressers and I still haven't seen the interview from last night (Can some one give me a link?) Karl may be very willing to quit. He is already giving responsibility to his assistants because he doesn't have energy. There may be a very politically correct way of handling this.
 
EIM86

EIM86

Starter
#19
#19
Peter_Gibbons said:
A lot of times we simply don't have the energy to keep up on both ends. When you are a 6'11" hulking center playing the #1 pace offense, you don't have much left on defense and that's not Cousins' fault. Our perimeter defense is horrendous and many times, our bigs just don't have the energy to keep running up and down and be active on defense.
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Exactly we just don't have the right personnel to play the way the coach wants. All we need to be is a middle tier defensive team and we are pretty good but since we keep getting worn out from all that offense we just can't keep up on defense
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#20
#20
Look, I know you all want to put this on Karl, but you just can't. We just got off a 5-game winning streak 10 days ago where this team was as dialed in defensively as we've seen in a long time. The effort was there team-wide and it truly looked like we turned a corner. What changed? You can say they quit on Karl or whatever, but that's not an excuse anymore. It shouldn't matter if a Pinecone is our coach, we're in the playoff race and our lapses in judgement have been absolutely mind-boggling. Dial in! There's just too many effort problems all the time with us.

Coaching changes just don't work out mid-season if we cut Karl now. You can talk about it during the off-year, but unless Thibs says he wants to come here and we can take the hit this year for long-term gain, we got to push through with the staff on board.
 
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Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#21
#21
EIM86 said:
Exactly we just don't have the right personnel to play the way the coach wants. All we need to be is a middle tier defensive team and we are pretty good but since we keep getting worn out from all that offense we just can't keep up on defense
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It seems simple to understand that, doesn't it? Welcome.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#22
#22
The_Jamal said:
Look, I know you all want to put this on Karl, but you just can't. We just got off a 5-game winning streak 10 days ago where this team was as dialed in defensively as we've seen in a long time. The effort was there team-wide and it truly looked like we turned a corner. What changed? There's just too many effort problems all the time with us.

Coaching changes just don't work out mid-season if we cut Karl now. You can talk about it during the off-year, but unless Thibs says he wants to come here and we can take the hit this year for long-term gain, we got to push through with the staff on board.
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I want an accurate answer as to what is wrong. As unlikely as it may seem that it is the coaches fault after a 5 game winning streak, I also don't see it reasonable to blame the players or any given player.
 
P

Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#23
#23
The_Jamal said:
Look, I know you all want to put this on Karl, but you just can't. We just got off a 5-game winning streak 10 days ago where this team was as dialed in defensively as we've seen in a long time. The effort was there team-wide and it truly looked like we turned a corner. What changed? You can say they quit on Karl or whatever, but that's not an excuse anymore. It shouldn't matter if a Pinecone is our coach, we're in the playoff race and our lapses in judgement have been absolutely mind-boggling. Dial in! There's just too many effort problems all the time with us.

Coaching changes just don't work out mid-season if we cut Karl now. You can talk about it during the off-year, but unless Thibs says he wants to come here and we can take the hit this year for long-term gain, we got to push through with the staff on board.
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That's the issue. I think we are agree and know that it's never good to changes coaches this late in the season, but the team is not responding.

A big part of defense is effort and the fact that they are not giving it when we essentially have so much on the line is alarming. Have they tuned out Karl? Is it fatigue from playing the #1 pace offense? Perhaps that 5 game winning streak took some much out of them physically that it's hard to keep overcoming the fatigue from playing an offense that they aren't meant to play in. I guess only the guys in the locker room will know whats the reason.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#25
#25
Glenn said:
I want an accurate answer as to what is wrong. As unlikely as it may seem that it is the coaches fault after a 5 game winning streak, I also don't see it reasonable to blame the players or any given player.
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So wait. Let me get this straight, the players get a pass? Demarcus's inability to make shots down the stretch, Rondo checking out the past couple of games, Bellineli/Ben's inconsistent play are all Karl's fault? Lol
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#26
#26
The_Jamal said:
Look, I know you all want to put this on Karl, but you just can't. We just got off a 5-game winning streak 10 days ago where this team was as dialed in defensively as we've seen in a long time. The effort was there team-wide and it truly looked like we turned a corner. What changed? You can say they quit on Karl or whatever, but that's not an excuse anymore. It shouldn't matter if a Pinecone is our coach, we're in the playoff race and our lapses in judgement have been absolutely mind-boggling. Dial in! There's just too many effort problems all the time with us.

Coaching changes just don't work out mid-season if we cut Karl now. You can talk about it during the off-year, but unless Thibs says he wants to come here and we can take the hit this year for long-term gain, we got to push through with the staff on board.
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that five-game win streak required an otherworldly, utterly inhuman effort from demarcus cousins, and we all know that the kings go as demarcus goes. but, since rattling off that win streak, big cuz has looked absolutely exhausted out there, and i think it's quite fair to wonder if the kings can maintain the extremely fast pace at which george karl prefers to play while also maintaining a reasonable level of consistency. i don't know that the team has "quit" on karl as much as there are serious compatibility issues at play. the fit just isn't great, and the coaching staff hasn't once taken responsibility for the abject failure of their defensive approach. nor have they made any worthwhile attempt at adjusting their defensive game plan to shore up the obvious deficiencies on display...

i simply don't trust a head coach who puts system above circumstance, and who does little to adapt in the face of glaring flaws. for example, i can't imagine that a lot of nba minds would look up and down the kings' roster and say to themselves, "you know what? these players are best suited to an aggressive, hyperactive, scrambling defense that switches at every screen and sags off outside shooters at every opportunity," particularly given the rim protection that the kings' frontline rotation provides. it's baffling beyond measure to watch, and it makes me long for the much more conservative and precise defensive schemes of a coach like tom thibodeau. that said, i agree with your final assessment; unless thibs is ready to step into the job tomorrow, the kings just need to ride out the rest of their schedule and re-evaluate their long-term coaching situation in the offseason...
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#27
#27
Dbeltz24 said:
So wait. Let me get this straight, the players get a pass? Demarcus's inability to make shots down the stretch, Rondo checking out the past couple of games, Bellineli/Ben's inconsistent play are all Karl's fault? Lol
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You need to learn how to read and understand. As you seem to think what I say is a joke, I will go no further with you on this subject. I never said I knew what was wrong. I take it you know.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#28
#28
Glenn said:
You need to learn how to read and understand. As you seem to think what I say is a joke, I will go no further with you on this subject. I never said I knew what was wrong. I take it you know.
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We are seeing some teams in the NBA winning regardless of who is the coach. Blatt was a horrible fit in Cleveland, yet they were able to win 75% of their games. The Kings do not have as much talent as the Cavs. But the talent on this team should never be below .500, regardless who is coaching.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#29
#29
Dbeltz24 said:
We are seeing some teams in the NBA winning regardless of who is the coach. Blatt was a horrible fit in Cleveland, yet they were able to win 75% of their games. The Kings do not have as much talent as the Cavs. But the talent on this team should never be below .500, regardless who is coaching.
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That's a strang argument. You're suggesting we have the talent to be a much better team but we aren't winning but that the coach doesn't matter. Ever wonder if maybe the talent being misused is part of the problem?
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#30
#30
sdballer said:
That's a strang argument. You're suggesting we have the talent to be a much better team but we aren't winning but that the coach doesn't matter. Ever wonder if maybe the talent being misused is part of the problem?
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It was not used correctly in Cleveland either. Yet those players found a way to execute and not point fingers and to handle their business. A team that has had 2 Team USA camp invites and then a former All Star in Rondo should never be this bad. It falls on their inability to produce when it matters. The coach isn't giving up 30/40 point first quarters.
 
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