WCS

[The Hammer]

This is going to sound crazy but I think our actual big three are Cuz, Rondo, and WCS.

The way he impacts the game is so widespread, and not just on defense. The threat of the lob is a big part of today's game, and it's essentially the opposite of the three ball stretching the defense. At any time the defense is pre occupied with WCS cutting to the basket for a lob. And 5 offensive rebounds. But on defense it's just crazy. I'm convinced the Milsap didn't just simply "lose the ball"... it was clearly the pressure WCS was putting on him, making him think. WCS as a perimeter defender guarding just about anyone, but especially anyone over 6'4"... it's a total nightmare. Unfortunately for Milsap his nightmare undid him and he fumbled the ball. But I credit WCS for that even though there was no ball contact. It was his presence.

And don't even get me started on that other late play where he "lets" his defender go by him so he can get a better angle on blocking the layup!

This kind of defensive presence is PRICELESS for any team, but ESPECIALLY this team. THANK YOU VLADE.

WCS won this game for us tonight.

 

[gunks]

WCS is a beast.

I think he's probably going to be averaging these kind of minutes for the rest of the season, with this kind of impact. And he's just going to get better. AND he's a perfect fit next to Cuz!

Emmanuel WHOiday?!

 

[9x1x6]

Best pick since 2010 easy.

 

[VF21]

This is going to sound crazy but I think our actual big three are Cuz, Rondo, and WCS.

Yep. I think our "Wildcat Kings" are going places, and they're bringing the rest of the team with them.

 

[jcwkings]

He is quickly becoming part of our "big 4". Rudy has been so much better starting at the 3 since Willie was inserted into the starting lineup. Do you guys think the banging inside he has to do when playing the 4 was affecting his offensive game?

 

[VF21]

Emmanuel WHOiday?!

 

[jcwkings]

WCS is the 3rd best rookie right know behind KAT and Porzingis, he just affects the game so much without doing much on the box score(yet still getting double doubles). Did a great job on Millsap who perennially torches us. Pretty nice draft for bigs eh?

Also that double block by WCS and Boogie on Bazemore was freaking awesome!

 

[hrdboild]

I was more critical of Cauley-Stein than anyone during his college career, draft day, summer league, and on into the early part of the season. And I'm happy to say that I was clearly mistaken! I'm loving what I've seen out of him on the court this month. It's like watching a different player. I thought he was either lazy or just a low IQ player in college because he spent a lot of time out of the play, watching the action in the Kentucky games I watched. He's already impressed me with his work ethic and willingness to improve though in just half a season with the Kings. He's moving with purpose right now, finding holes in the defense and just all-out hustling to protect the basket.

I have to agree with The Hammer that we don't win this game tonight without Cauley-Stein having the impact that he did. Kudos big man! I can be stubborn, but I'll go to bat for a defensive scrapper with a non-stop motor any day!

 

[King Baller]

Willie!!!!!

 

[206Fan]

This is going to sound crazy but I think our actual big three are Cuz, Rondo, and WCS.

The way he impacts the game is so widespread, and not just on defense. The threat of the lob is a big part of today's game, and it's essentially the opposite of the three ball stretching the defense. At any time the defense is pre occupied with WCS cutting to the basket for a lob. And 5 offensive rebounds. But on defense it's just crazy. I'm convinced the Milsap didn't just simply "lose the ball"... it was clearly the pressure WCS was putting on him, making him think. WCS as a perimeter defender guarding just about anyone, but especially anyone over 6'4"... it's a total nightmare. Unfortunately for Milsap his nightmare undid him and he fumbled the ball. But I credit WCS for that even though there was no ball contact. It was his presence.

And don't even get me started on that other late play where he "let's" his defender go by him so he can get a better angle on blocking the layup!

This kind of defensive presence is PRICELESS for any team, but ESPECIALLY this team. THANK YOU VLADE.

WCS won this game for us tonight.

WCS is ****ing amazing!

However....let's not get carried away with the whole "big three" thing... if you forgot, WCS is only a rookie, and Gay has been great throughout his 9+ seasons.

WCS is the 3rd best rookie right know behind KAT and Porzingis, he just affects the game so much without doing much on the box score(yet still getting double doubles). Did a great job on Millsap who perennially torches us. Pretty nice draft for bigs eh?

Also that double block by WCS and Boogie on Bazemore was freaking awesome!

In theory, I don't think so. Rudy's game is posting up around 14ft out, and closer to the rim. Playing the 4 allowed him to do just that.
With Casspi on the floor, it also spaced things out. I think Rudy just had a pretty poor stretch.

Playing the 4 on offense had nothing to do with his struggles imo. It should've made him better.

 

[Hoovtrain]

This guy needs to be getting no less than 30 min a game. He is a true game changer

 

[Luweegee]

He is quickly becoming part of our "big 4". Rudy has been so much better starting at the 3 since Willie was inserted into the starting lineup. Do you guys think the banging inside he has to do when playing the 4 was affecting his offensive game?

Most definitely. Rudy operates best at his natural position which is at the 3.

 

[jcwkings]

WCS is ****ing amazing!

However....let's not get carried away with the whole "big three" thing... if you forgot, WCS is only a rookie, and Gay has been great throughout his 9+ seasons.

On the contrary, when you have ball dominant guys like Rondo, Cuz and Gay, WCS as your next best player is EXACTLY what we need.

 

[ElRey]

That play where Willie got turned around on defense and still recovered to block the shot at the rim! My Goodness!

 

[KingsFanSince85]

You guys can't be saying all these great things about Willie Trill because it was decided after a couple Summer League games that his rebounding isn't good enough-- remember?

The official boxscore shows WCS with ZERO block tonight -- not sure what they were watching. He had at least 2 for sure.

Also, I think Trill got a fingernail on ball as Millsap tried to put it on the floor resulting in the turnover recovered by Casspi. I think he might have grazed the last inbound pass too.

What I know for SURE is that he made 2 free throws late in the game when all the pressure was on.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

That play where Willie got turned around on defense and still recovered to block the shot at the rim! My Goodness!

Yeah, but according to the boxscore, that play never happened!

I'm glad you brought that play up because it epitomizes one of the ways Willie can be an impact defender. He can guard smaller players way out on the perimeter and recover if he gets beat off the dribble. That was an all-star defensive play that maybe only a handful of players in the league could have made.

 

[jcwkings]

The Millsap turnover was ALL WCS. Even if he didn't touch it, Millsap was bothered by the length in front of him, just that little bit of doubt made him lose control of the ball. He was gonna try and take it off the dribble.

 

[The Hammer]

Most definitely. Rudy operates best at his natural position which is at the 3.

That's also where he has the greatest advantage over his opponents, being able to rise up over almost any other 3 in the league from just about anywhere on the court. He also matches up better defensively against most threes. Post defender extraordinaire he is not.

Very slick move by Vlade drafting a guy you HAVE to play next to Cuz, forcing Gay to to back to three, preventing Karl from too much small ball.

Heard on a pre game interview with Karl mumbling about "no positions" but even tossing in that Gay could play the two... which I love actually.

My dream lineup is actually:

Rondo
Gay
Casspi
WCS
Cuz

 

[hrdboild]

You guys can't be saying all these great things about Willie Trill because it was decided after a couple Summer League games that his rebounding isn't good enough-- remember?

The official boxscore shows WCS with ZERO block tonight -- not sure what they were watching. He had at least 2 for sure.

Also, I think Trill got a fingernail on ball as Millsap tried to put it on the floor resulting in the turnover recovered by Casspi. I think he might have grazed the last inbound pass too.

What I know for SURE is that he made 2 free throws late in the game when all the pressure was on.

The weird thing is, during the 4th quarter he was credited with a block in the boxscore, then they took it away and gave it to Cuz, then they credited him with a block again, and then that one disappeared after the game too. Bizarre.

 

[Im Still Ballin]

He's the perfect George Karl guy

The way he runs the break, it cannot be understated how valuable it is to have a 7 footer leading the break

 

[Tetsujin]

The weird thing is, during the 4th quarter he was credited with a block in the boxscore, then they took it away and gave it to Cuz, then they credited him with a block again, and then that one disappeared after the game too. Bizarre.

Just team cancer Boogie going around stealing teammates stats again. When will enough be enough???!!!

 

[IfAt1st]

I think he might have grazed the last inbound pass too.

He most definitely blocked the inbounds pass, as well.
In fact, look at that play again:

Unless Willie blocks that pass, Horford is WIDE OPEN at the 3-pt line, because Omri left him by a good 15 feet and momentum going away from him.
Willie quite possibly saved the game by blocking that pass.

Now can George Karl please never **** up again by leaving Willie off the floor for defensive possessions?
The absurdity of Karl's subbing patterns earlier in the year is becoming more and more of a glaring delusional oversight by the game.

 

[notoriousBEN3]

I know we have all been thinking that Karl doesn't care about defense at all and fiends for small ball line-ups, but let's not forget that Marcus Camby was on those Denver teams with Melo, and also won defensive player of the year under Karl! I can only hope he can duplicate that with Trill

 

[bajaden]

I was more critical of Cauley-Stein than anyone during his college career, draft day, summer league, and on into the early part of the season. And I'm happy to say that I was clearly mistaken! I'm loving what I've seen out of him on the court this month. It's like watching a different player. I thought he was either lazy or just a low IQ player in college because he spent a lot of time out of the play, watching the action in the Kentucky games I watched. He's already impressed me with his work ethic and willingness to improve though in just half a season with the Kings. He's moving with purpose right now, finding holes in the defense and just all-out hustling to protect the basket.

I have to agree with The Hammer that we don't win this game tonight without Cauley-Stein having the impact that he did. Kudos big man! I can be stubborn, but I'll go to bat for a defensive scrapper with a non-stop motor any day!

Ahem! I won't say I told you so, oh damm, I guess I just did, but kudo's to you for manning up and admitting you were wrong. We had several discussions during Willie's final year at Kentucky, and I couldn't understand where you were coming from. Maybe the difference is that I watched Willie play in over 70 games at Kentucky in his three years there. But all's well that ends well, and so far, Willie is proving to be the right choice for the Kings. He's the perfect fit next to Cousins. The only player I wanted more than Willie in that draft was Towns, and we had no chance, other than winning the lottery, of getting him.

 

[twslam07]

I do see Cauley-Stein as being a very important player for us. Kind of like how DeAndre Jordan is a very important player and part of a Big 3 for the Clippers. In fact, our team is being built very similarly to the Clippers.

Pass first PG: Rondo/Paul
Shooting SG: McLemore/Reddick
Scoring SF: Gay/Pierce (although Pierce isn't really that effective anymore)
Dominant Scoring Big Man: Cousins/Griffin
Defensive, Shotblocking Big Man: Cauley-Stein/Jordan

If we're able to add a 3 and D SG (like Bazemore) in FA or if McLemore can step up and become that type of player, I would say that we have the advantage at SG, SF, & PF today. However, in time, I would say that Cauley-Stein is going to be better than Jordan. I would even say that our bench is currently better than theirs Collison/Belinelli/Casspi/Acy/Koufos vs. Rivers/Crawford/W. Johnson/J. Smith/Aldrich. So the only position they would have us beat is PG.

Give Cauley-Stein time to continue to get better, shore up the SG position with a 3 and D player, and let it all play-out. We're in for a fun ride. Be patient Kings Fans!

 

[bajaden]

WCS is ****ing amazing!

However....let's not get carried away with the whole "big three" thing... if you forgot, WCS is only a rookie, and Gay has been great throughout his 9+ seasons.



In theory, I don't think so. Rudy's game is posting up around 14ft out, and closer to the rim. Playing the 4 allowed him to do just that.
With Casspi on the floor, it also spaced things out. I think Rudy just had a pretty poor stretch.

Playing the 4 on offense had nothing to do with his struggles imo. It should've made him better.

Sometimes players are more comfortable at one position more than another. Call it mental if you want, but at the end of the day, it can matter. I was a center fielder in baseball and loved playing there. On occasion because of injuries, I had to play left field or right field. I always felt uncomfortable, even though I was capable of playing both. Left field is where you hide your weak outfielder especially if you have a speedy center fielder that can cheat in left field a little bit. My point is, put a player in a position he's not comfortable with, and you might get a drop in production.

Gay has been s SF for almost all of his career, and when you look at career stats where he's played PF, they don't match up to his stats at SF. On paper you might be right, but in reality, it's not happening. Players aren't robots and what's between their ears is usually what matters. It's all about confidence.

 

[bajaden]

I do see Cauley-Stein as being a very important player for us. Kind of like how DeAndre Jordan is a very important player and part of a Big 3 for the Clippers. In fact, our team is being built very similarly to the Clippers.

Pass first PG: Rondo/Paul
Shooting SG: McLemore/Reddick
Scoring SF: Gay/Pierce (although Pierce isn't really that effective anymore)
Dominant Scoring Big Man: Cousins/Griffin
Defensive, Shotblocking Big Man: Cauley-Stein/Jordan

If we're able to add a 3 and D SG (like Bazemore) in FA or if McLemore can step up and become that type of player, I would say that we have the advantage at SG, SF, & PF today. However, in time, I would say that Cauley-Stein is going to be better than Jordan. I would even say that our bench is currently better than theirs Collison/Belinelli/Casspi/Acy/Koufos vs. Rivers/Crawford/W. Johnson/J. Smith/Aldrich. So the only position they would have us beat is PG.

Give Cauley-Stein time to continue to get better, shore up the SG position with a 3 and D player, and let it all play-out. We're in for a fun ride. Be patient Kings Fans!

You have to be careful with that word "patience", it can be like waving a red flag in front of a bull. However, I agree! At least for the moment. I've decided to become more fickle. I'll be the one with the wet finger in the air. Works with grass on the golf course.

 

[funkykingston]

I think the concept of a "Big Three" is a bit overstated. The recipe for success is generally 1 Superstar, one complimentary all-star or two near all-stars and then a deep roster of role players that compliment the main guys well and provide versatility.

I love watching Cauley-Stein but I wouldn't say he's necessarily a better player than Rudy Gay. But it seems clear (to me at least) that he's a better fit with Rondo and Cousins than Gay is. He is the athletic shotblocker/defender we've wanted next to Boogie forever. He's a versatile defender who is finally able to shore up some of the Kings glaring weakness against the pick and roll. He's also a guy who runs the floor and in the half court finds his spots on the floor for easy looks and lobs from Rondo. He's a low usage athletic and defensive marvel who compliments Rajon and DeMarcus very, very well.

Rudy fills the role of needing to have a secondary scorer who can create his own shot. But he's not a great 3 point shooter and is at his best working near the hoop which doesn't help spacing, he's overly ball dominant and not a great passer/playmaker and the biggest issue (to me at least) is that he becomes much, much less efficient when Cousins is out and Rudy becomes the primary scorer.

I was going to mention Gay's defense, but he showed in his last game that when he's locked in he can be very good defensively, he's just not locked in all that often. But Rudy is a good scorer and a pretty good rebounder at the SF position. But with a team that starts Rondo and Cousins & which sees Cauley-Stein as a building block I'd really like to see some great shooting from both wing players.

Hopefully Ben continues to improve (is he finally, actually turning a corner?) which alleviates some things. But this team needs to have wing shooting. I'm not as extreme as some who think dealing Rudy would be addition by subtraction regardless of what came back to the Kings, but I do think it's worth exploring if trading Gay (and/or Collison) can return players that fit better.

Because if Rondo/Cuz is the foundation, WCS and Casspi fit extremely well and it might be time to see if Vlade can find other players who will as well.

 

[twslam07]

I think the concept of a "Big Three" is a bit overstated. The recipe for success is generally 1 Superstar, one complimentary all-star or two near all-stars and then a deep roster of role players that compliment the main guys well and provide versatility.

I love watching Cauley-Stein but I wouldn't say he's necessarily a better player than Rudy Gay. But it seems clear (to me at least) that he's a better fit with Rondo and Cousins than Gay is. He is the athletic shotblocker/defender we've wanted next to Boogie forever. He's a versatile defender who is finally able to shore up some of the Kings glaring weakness against the pick and roll. He's also a guy who runs the floor and in the half court finds his spots on the floor for easy looks and lobs from Rondo. He's a low usage athletic and defensive marvel who compliments Rajon and DeMarcus very, very well.

Rudy fills the role of needing to have a secondary scorer who can create his own shot. But he's not a great 3 point shooter and is at his best working near the hoop which doesn't help spacing, he's overly ball dominant and not a great passer/playmaker and the biggest issue (to me at least) is that he becomes much, much less efficient when Cousins is out and Rudy becomes the primary scorer.

I was going to mention Gay's defense, but he showed in his last game that when he's locked in he can be very good defensively, he's just not locked in all that often. But Rudy is a good scorer and a pretty good rebounder at the SF position. But with a team that starts Rondo and Cousins & which sees Cauley-Stein as a building block I'd really like to see some great shooting from both wing players.

Hopefully Ben continues to improve (is he finally, actually turning a corner?) which alleviates some things. But this team needs to have wing shooting. I'm not as extreme as some who think dealing Rudy would be addition by subtraction regardless of what came back to the Kings, but I do think it's worth exploring if trading Gay (and/or Collison) can return players that fit better.

Because if Rondo/Cuz is the foundation, WCS and Casspi fit extremely well and it might be time to see if Vlade can find other players who will as well.

I agree with a lot of what you have said. It's just going to be hard to bring in another #2 scorer with 3pt shooting at the SF position. Hayward & Batum are the two guys I look at that think would be better fits, but I'm not optimistic about getting either one of those guys (especially Hayward).

I think for now, we'll have to stick with Gay to serve as that #2 scorer. If we have a great 3pt shooting SG and Cauley-Stein is able to develop a jumpshot, I think the spacing could work as both Gay & Cousins have the ability to knock down threes at a 35% clip (even Rondo is shooting 33% from three this year).

 

[funkykingston]

I agree with a lot of what you have said. It's just going to be hard to bring in another #2 scorer with 3pt shooting at the SF position. Hayward & Batum are the two guys I look at that think would be better fits, but I'm not optimistic about getting either one of those guys (especially Hayward).

I think for now, we'll have to stick with Gay to serve as that #2 scorer. If we have a great 3pt shooting SG and Cauley-Stein is able to develop a jumpshot, I think the spacing could work as both Gay & Cousins have the ability to knock down threes at a 35% clip (even Rondo is shooting 33% from three this year).

Hayward came to mind to me as a good fit too. Not as a likely one (the Jazz aren't letting him go) but just as a player that would work really well with Rondo/Cousins because he's a good scorer, good shooter and a good passer. I get frustrated watching Rudy not move the ball when it's clear that the Kings are a different (and far better) team when they have good ball movement.

Cousins
Porzingis
Hayward
Bazemore
Rondo

would be the type of ideal lineup I'd want with Rondo/Cousins. Add a great scoring guard (Isaiah Thomas), more shooting, a defensive specialist, a stretch 4 and a defensive big off the bench and you'd have a contending team. None of those guys are really available but they are the guys I think of as great fits next to Rajon & DMC.

But with Cauley-Stein, Rondo and Boogie in the starting lineup I DO think the wings have to be stretching the floor and knocking down open shots. I like Rudy, I'm just starting to think he's moving from sidekick to odd man out.