Kings making Rudy available for trade?

[Bosnian Diehard]

According to sheridanhoops, we offered Gay for Ryan Anderson and they declined.

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2016/0...lable-with-nba-trade-deadline-one-month-away/

 

[Bricklayer]

Not a horrendous surprise given the last 3-4 weeks if true.

At the current moment Rudy and Ben, and maybe, maybe DC appear to me to be the most likely pieces shuffled in a midseason retool.

 

[Showtime]

According to sheridanhoops, we offered Gay for Ryan Anderson and they declined.

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2016/0...lable-with-nba-trade-deadline-one-month-away/

Why would the team trade straight up when we can sign him? If anything they need to deal Gay in a package.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Not a horrendous surprise given the last 3-4 weeks if true.

At the current moment Rudy and Ben, and maybe, maybe DC appear to me to be the most likely pieces shuffled in a midseason retool.

Is Rondo more likely to walk if they trade his buddy Rudy? If so, should the team look to deal him instead of Collison if they have a Gay trade lined up?

 

[Bricklayer]

Is Rondo more likely to walk if they trade his buddy Rudy? If so, should the team look to deal him instead of Collison if they have a Gay trade lined up?

Rondo is core now, and core Cousins. Rondo walks, Cousins likely walks. You can't finally give him a vet mentor he likes and take it away the way we did Malone.

Have said before that you can't deal Gay without at least a nod from Cuz and Rondo, but maybe after bonding themselves and half a season of frustrating struggle they would be more likely to give it. But you better get something back of significance that works.

 

[John Galt]

I don't believe all the stuff about "Rondo will leave if Kings trade Rudy". Rondo has high BBIQ. He can see what we all see.

I'm surprised nobody has put together the hilight reel of all the times Rudy has run desperately after the corner three shooter - leaped high in the air and out of bounds into the crowd - while the guy patiently pump fakes and drains it. It wasn't just that one shot vs Dallas - he does it all the freaking time. Either stands there, watches the three drain, puts his hands on his hips and looks at the floor in dismay..... or.... flies past the guy right into the popcorn machine. It's bullcrap.

Rondo will be philosophical and take it in stride if Kings deal Rudy. Hell if they deal Rudy to Chicago I'm sure Rondo will be happy for his bro.

And Kings will be better.

 

[ockingsfan]

Not a good deal. Anderson is an unrestricted Free Agent this summer and if you can't resign him, you lose Rudy for nothing.

I feel if you deal Rudy, you need someone under contract for at least a few years.

Why not just make a play for Anderson this summer in Free Agency.

Also, Rudy was a key to get Rondo in Sacramento, if you trade him, you may lose Rondo in the Summer.

 

[206Fan]

I don't want Rondo back next season and I'd much rather use that cap space elsewhere..

Can we try trading Rudy to Atlanta? Bazemore and Schroeder somehow?

 

[Livinthedream]

Why would the team trade straight up when we can sign him?

Because we want to make the playoffs THIS year.

 

[funkykingston]

We've now seen essentially two full seasons of Cousins and Gay.

Rudy is a very smooth scorer when not the primary option and he's an effective defender when engaged.

But (1) he's an AWFUL first option which is a role he assumes whenever Cuz is out and (2) he's rarely engaged defensively.

He also does his best work close to the basket, using his length to rise over defenders and hit short to midrange jumpers. He shoots around 3 threes a game, making one (32% so far this year) so he doesn't stretch the floor which the team HAS to have from one or both wings if Rondo is the starting PG.

If some package of Rudy/Ben/Collison/Marco could net a high quality SG and a warm body or two to avoid decimating the bench then I'd be in favor of it.

Rondo
Good SG
Casspi
WCS
Boogie

is a better lineup than what we're trotting out. I DO think this team needs a stretch 4 so that they can occasionally surround Cousins with shooters

Curry
Belinelli? McLemore? A trade target
Casspi
Stretch 4
Boogie

but I don't think that's as big a priority as more wing shooting and perimeter defense.

I was admittedly gunshy on drafting the kid despite him looking like a great fit on paper, but how nice would Porzingis look next to Boogie right now?

Anyway, something has to change. I wish Karl would at least try Rondo, Gay, Casspi, Cauley-Stein, Cousins (with Rudy guarding the opposing SG) but that lineup still is short on shooting.

But this roster definitely either needs a significant tweak or to be blown up completely because almost 40 games in and it's clear that this group (as currently constituted) doesn't have the right pieces or the fight in them to go anywhere.

 

[Kings_on_the_RiSE]

I forget which game it was but, remember the 3 on 1 fastbreak with Gay, Rondo, and Collison? As Rudy receives the pass and goes up for a highlight dunk, the ball slips out of his hand and out of bounds it goes. The only thing I got out of that play was frustration and a little laughter. Especially when Collison put his hands on his head in disbelief. Lol. We gotta get a valuable piece back tho. If that's not the case, I guess I'll continue to lmao!!!

 

[LPKingsFan]

We've now seen essentially two full seasons of Cousins and Gay.

Rudy is a very smooth scorer when not the primary option and he's an effective defender when engaged.

But (1) he's an AWFUL first option which is a role he assumes whenever Cuz is out and (2) he's rarely engaged defensively.

He also does his best work close to the basket, using his length to rise over defenders and hit short to midrange jumpers. He shoots around 3 threes a game, making one (32% so far this year) so he doesn't stretch the floor which the team HAS to have from one or both wings if Rondo is the starting PG.

If some package of Rudy/Ben/Collison/Marco could net a high quality SG and a warm body or two to avoid decimating the bench then I'd be in favor of it.

Rondo
Good SG
Casspi
WCS
Boogie

is a better lineup than what we're trotting out. I DO think this team needs a stretch 4 so that they can occasionally surround Cousins with shooters

Curry
Belinelli? McLemore? A trade target
Casspi
Stretch 4
Boogie

but I don't think that's as big a priority as more wing shooting and perimeter defense.

I was admittedly gunshy on drafting the kid despite him looking like a great fit on paper, but how nice would Porzingis look next to Boogie right now?

Anyway, something has to change. I wish Karl would at least try Rondo, Gay, Casspi, Cauley-Stein, Cousins (with Rudy guarding the opposing SG) but that lineup still is short on shooting.

But this roster definitely either needs a significant tweak or to be blown up completely because almost 40 games in and it's clear that this group (as currently constituted) doesn't have the right pieces or the fight in them to go anywhere.

I largely agree, but who are the good SGs out there that are avilable? The position is just so shallow. I'd agree that a frontcourt of Cousins/WCS/Casspi works, and I'd also add that a big rotation of Cousins/WCS/Anderson would give you a great amount of flexibility of pairing Boogie with either an offensive stretch 4 or WCS depending on how things are going. That would relegate Koufous to 4th big (not to mention Acy), and he's probably too good for a 4th big. So maybe you deal him, too, in one of the packages and bring back a guy like Aldrich if it helps improve the backcourt... but that's getting ahead of ourselves. At the end of the day, it's looking more and more like the Cousins/Gay/Rondo core isn't going to work. Even though Rondo is an upcoming FA, I guess you deal Gay for a better fit and cross your fingers it works and Rondo doesn't walk.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I am in no way opposed to trading Rudy for the right guy, but when your team is this inconsistent, and shows that they are capable of playing at a high level, then your biggest problems are not with player personal. Unless you can get a very self directed and self motivated player in his place then for all intents and purposes you are simply bringing in new pieces to be misused.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Because we want to make the playoffs THIS year.

Agreed. Plus, I don't think there would be enough cap room to sign Anderson and make a meaningful SG upgrade (and maybe not even enough to sign Anderson at all--has anyone calculated this?). And I think you have a better chance of signing a SG upgrade than a guy like Anderson (guys like Courtney Lee, Fournier, Bazemore are free agents, maybe Afflalo if he opts out).

 

[The_Jamal]

I flip Rudy for Ryan Anderson without even thinking about it. The one hitch is the friendship between Rudy and Rondo and if that will affect anything come FA time. But we'll get a jump on Anderson's bird rights with plenty of money to bring both back this off-season. If it works well, there's no reason either wouldn't want to resign.

Belli, Anderson, Casspi and Ben is a stupid amount of floor spacing. Beauty of Anderson is while he's chuck city from 3, he's got the ability to score too. Not just a spot-up shooter.

 

[Bricklayer]

you just have to think logically about this. This isn't about fantasy trades.

Think, who are the holdovers who are not Karl or Vlade's peeps? Its a short list. Now who has done well, shown fight etc., vs. who has struggled. Shorter list.

 

[The_Jamal]

We've now seen essentially two full seasons of Cousins and Gay.

Rudy is a very smooth scorer when not the primary option and he's an effective defender when engaged.

But (1) he's an AWFUL first option which is a role he assumes whenever Cuz is out and (2) he's rarely engaged defensively.

He also does his best work close to the basket, using his length to rise over defenders and hit short to midrange jumpers. He shoots around 3 threes a game, making one (32% so far this year) so he doesn't stretch the floor which the team HAS to have from one or both wings if Rondo is the starting PG.

If some package of Rudy/Ben/Collison/Marco could net a high quality SG and a warm body or two to avoid decimating the bench then I'd be in favor of it.

Rondo
Good SG
Casspi
WCS
Boogie

is a better lineup than what we're trotting out. I DO think this team needs a stretch 4 so that they can occasionally surround Cousins with shooters

Curry
Belinelli? McLemore? A trade target
Casspi
Stretch 4
Boogie

but I don't think that's as big a priority as more wing shooting and perimeter defense.

I was admittedly gunshy on drafting the kid despite him looking like a great fit on paper, but how nice would Porzingis look next to Boogie right now?

Anyway, something has to change. I wish Karl would at least try Rondo, Gay, Casspi, Cauley-Stein, Cousins (with Rudy guarding the opposing SG) but that lineup still is short on shooting.

But this roster definitely either needs a significant tweak or to be blown up completely because almost 40 games in and it's clear that this group (as currently constituted) doesn't have the right pieces or the fight in them to go anywhere.

We're already the worst team in the league at defending SG's. How would putting a guy who doesn't really stand a chance staying in front of most of them and is a bad defender at his position in the first place help?

 

[The_Jamal]

you just have to think logically about this. This isn't about fantasy trades.

Think, who are the holdovers who are not Karl or Vlade's peeps? Its a short list. Now who has done well, shown fight etc., vs. who has struggled. Shorter list.

It makes logical sense on both sides. Anderson is always stuck behind Davis at PF, and they're trotting out Alonzo Gee and Dante Cunningham at SF this season... Needless to say they can upgrade.

All depends if they still think they're in the playoff hunt. If they're trying to tank, they aren't going to take on someone like Gay

 

[206Fan]

you just have to think logically about this. This isn't about fantasy trades.

Think, who are the holdovers who are not Karl or Vlade's peeps? Its a short list. Now who has done well, shown fight etc., vs. who has struggled. Shorter list.

This team should move away from Rondo, but we know it wont happen. He's our biggest defensive culprit, but he'll continue to get away with it.

Agreed. Plus, I don't think there would be enough cap room to sign Anderson and make a meaningful SG upgrade (and maybe not even enough to sign Anderson at all--has anyone calculated this?). And I think you have a better chance of signing a SG upgrade than a guy like Anderson (guys like Courtney Lee, Fournier, Bazemore are free agents, maybe Afflalo if he opts out).

Don't forget, we'll also have to sign Rondo too. We don't have his rights, and it'll go against the cap. This probably means we won't have a lot to spend in FA..and we won't be able to get any of the guys you suggested. Unless Rondo takes a team friendly deal...which I highly doubt considering we had to pay him $10million after his crap year at Dallas.

 

[The_Jamal]

Agreed. Plus, I don't think there would be enough cap room to sign Anderson and make a meaningful SG upgrade (and maybe not even enough to sign Anderson at all--has anyone calculated this?). And I think you have a better chance of signing a SG upgrade than a guy like Anderson (guys like Courtney Lee, Fournier, Bazemore are free agents, maybe Afflalo if he opts out).

We'll have enough for Anderson and Rondo. Basically just assume that Anderson fills into Rudy's current contract. Perhaps a bit more, but I can't imagine he'll be much higher than 14mil/year.

 

[gunks]

Finally. Dude is fools gold.

 

[Blob]

This team should move away from Rondo, but we know it wont happen. He's our biggest defensive culprit, but he'll continue to get away with it.

You think Rondo is our biggest defensive culprit? Have you seen Marco play defense? Hide the women and children! Gordon lit him up for 7 points last night before he even broke a sweat.

But don't take my word for it look at the DRPM (real defensive plus minus) which is adjusted for opponent and teammates. Rondo definitely has his lapses but Marco IS a defensive lapse. Darren is nothing to write home about either.

DRPM
Rondo -0.11
Rudy -0.61
Darren -3.15
Ben -2.09
Marco -4.15

 

[SacKings384]

I've been hoping the Kings would find a place to unload Rudy and Collison, who both actually have legitimate value in the NBA. They just don't fit this team. The Kings could move them for a lot of pieces. Hopefully Vlade finds a way to get it done. I like Rudy as a person and he took a very friendly contract with us, but I think his reign has somewhat ended here.

 

[206Fan]

You think Rondo is our biggest defensive culprit? Have you seen Marco play defense? Hide the women and children! Gordon lit him up for 7 points last night before he even broke a sweat.

But don't take my word for it look at the DRPM (real defensive plus minus) which is adjusted for opponent and teammates. Rondo definitely has his lapses but Marco IS a defensive lapse. Darren is nothing to write home about either.

DRPM
Rondo -0.11
Rudy -0.61
Darren -3.15
Ben -2.09
Marco -4.15

DRPM isn't a good tool to evaluate defense. Khris Middleton -1.84. Andrew Wiggins -3.88

What I mean is that Rondo plays lazily on defense and he's always gambling in the passing lane instead of sticking to the scheme. At least with Belinelli, he tries to fight over screens. Haven't seen that effort from Rondo. He has a good defensive game 1 out of 10 games.

 

[SacKings123]

Rudy gay might just need an extra push of motivation to have him play like his first year here in sac. Maybe bring in his buddy josh smith to the team?

 

[CuzistanKing]

People talk about fit with this team, but I have to ask - what IS the team structure we're going for? Because Rudy seems to fit perfectly into what Vlade was going for with his offseason acquisitions, but he definitely is a bad fit for what Karl is traditionally known for. But then again, by that metric about half of our team is a bad fit (including Cuz). My point is, while not opposed to trading Rudy on principle I think it's a half-measure and won't bring much improvement, regardless of who we bring back. Defense will still be awful and effort will still be sporadic. Our problems start at the top and shuffling deck chairs won't do much at this point.

 

[swisshh]

Ryan Anderson answers none of the team's problems, so I don't think this is much of an actual trade happening.

 

[funkykingston]

We're already the worst team in the league at defending SG's. How would putting a guy who doesn't really stand a chance staying in front of most of them and is a bad defender at his position in the first place help?

Could Gay be any worse than McLemore and Belinelli? At least he's got length, better footspeed than Marco and a better understanding of team defense than Ben. The Kings don't have the right pieces. So without shaking up the roster, what else can be done? I think Casspi and WCS as starters would help. Then the options at SG are essentially Darren (to go small ball), Ben, Marco or Rudy. I think I'd opt for Rudy

I largely agree, but who are the good SGs out there that are avilable? The position is just so shallow. I'd agree that a frontcourt of Cousins/WCS/Casspi works, and I'd also add that a big rotation of Cousins/WCS/Anderson would give you a great amount of flexibility of pairing Boogie with either an offensive stretch 4 or WCS depending on how things are going. That would relegate Koufous to 4th big (not to mention Acy), and he's probably too good for a 4th big. So maybe you deal him, too, in one of the packages and bring back a guy like Aldrich if it helps improve the backcourt... but that's getting ahead of ourselves. At the end of the day, it's looking more and more like the Cousins/Gay/Rondo core isn't going to work. Even though Rondo is an upcoming FA, I guess you deal Gay for a better fit and cross your fingers it works and Rondo doesn't walk.

I have no idea if the Hawks and Blazers would be interested but here's a trade that works under the Cap.

The Kings trade:
Rudy Gay
Darren Collison
Ben McLemore

The Kings receive:
Kent Bazemore
Myers Leonard
Tim Myers
Chris Kaman (who would be waived)

The Hawks trade:
Tiago Splitter
Kent Bazemore

The Hawks receive:
Rudy Gay

The Blazers trade:
Myers Leonard
Tim Myers
Chris Kaman

The Blazers receive:
Tiago Splitter
Darren Collison
Ben McLemore

The Hawks get more scoring punch at the SF, the Blazers get a veteran big man, a real back up PG/6th man and a still young SG prospect.

The Kings get a very solid 3&D SG, a stretch 4/5 and a fringe 3rd PG.

It's a net loss of talent for the Kings but probably a big on court improvement from having a better balanced roster.

C Cousins/Koufos/Moreland
PF Cauley-Stein/Leonard/Acy
SF Casspi/Anderson/Butler
SG Bazemore/Belinelli
PG Rondo/Curry/Myers

 

[Blob]

DRPM isn't a good tool to evaluate defense. Khris Middleton -1.84. Andrew Wiggins -3.88

RPM a great intra-team tool. Not an inter-team tool. It allows for comparison of teammates more readily than players on different teams. And Wiggins has regressed this year.

 

[Bricklayer]

People talk about fit with this team, but I have to ask - what IS the team structure we're going for? Because Rudy seems to fit perfectly into what Vlade was going for with his offseason acquisitions, but he definitely is a bad fit for what Karl is traditionally known for. But then again, by that metric about half of our team is a bad fit (including Cuz). My point is, while not opposed to trading Rudy on principle I think it's a half-measure and won't bring much improvement, regardless of who we bring back. Defense will still be awful and effort will still be sporadic. Our problems start at the top and shuffling deck chairs won't do much at this point.

1 Cuz
1 dedicated PG
everybody else scrap on defense or shoot threes

core personnel who work/align with Cuz:
Casspi
Rondo
Cuz
WCS

scrub personnel who work well with Cuz or seem to get the scrapper thing:
Acy
Curry

support personnel who could/should work but haven't fully clicked yet:
Koufos
Belinelli

scrub personnel who might work well or get the scrapper thing, but too little evidence:
Anderson
Moreland

grandfathered personnel who look uncomfortable + sometimes lack focus or energy:
Gay
McLemore
Collison

wants out:
Butler