Ziller: Time for Kings to consider life after Cousins
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Saw this crap earlier, sorry Tom but DMC is NOT Kevin Love or even Kevin Garnett. You do NOT trade guys like dmc. You may loose them, you do everything to keep them but you never trade them unless some one dumber trades someone better and I don't see Chris Griffin being foolish enough to trade Lebron either.
How is DMC not comparable to Love?
Neither guy can carry a team on their back alone.
It's arguable that Cousins is more of a franchise player than Love, but Love doesn't come with the attitude issues. Cousins' mentality and body language has been so bad this season and he's only played in 4/8 games.
If we don't start winning, it'll be time to move on from Cousins.
Neither guy can carry a team on their back alone.
It's arguable that Cousins is more of a franchise player than Love, but Love doesn't come with the attitude issues. Cousins' mentality and body language has been so bad this season and he's only played in 4/8 games.
If we don't start winning, it'll be time to move on from Cousins.
At this point, if it wasn't for Vlade, I'd be all for it just for Boogie's sake. It's incomprehensible how adept this franchise is in screwing itself over. Boogie is the only GOOD thing that has happened to this team, but yeah - let's move on from him, basically ensuring another 10+ years added to the current no-playoffs streak.
Sure, let's all completely ignore the obvious success (as fleeting as it was) Boogie and the team had in the right environment and just blame it all on the big guy. Simply unreal.
Sure, let's all completely ignore the obvious success (as fleeting as it was) Boogie and the team had in the right environment and just blame it all on the big guy. Simply unreal.
All this tells us, once again, is that many "writers" aren't worth the paper they print on.
Ziller has the occasional good article but is largely an embarrassment. That he has covered the Kings and still doesn't get it(unlike national writers who at least have the excuse of covering all 30 teams) adds to the embarrassment.
It's simple, with a healthy Cuz and the correct scheme, we can compete with any team on any given night. Without Cuz, our team looks lifeless and a team which could challenge for the least number of wins in NBA history. We just can't beat anyone without him for the most part. Can't even stay in the game. The list of players with that impact is extremely short. So unless you're proposing trading Cuz for a top 5 player(which I still wouldn't do), GTFO. I'd ask Ziller, which NBA team has ever, and really, ever, mismanaged a future HOF talent to this extent. There's your problem.
Ziller has the occasional good article but is largely an embarrassment. That he has covered the Kings and still doesn't get it(unlike national writers who at least have the excuse of covering all 30 teams) adds to the embarrassment.
It's simple, with a healthy Cuz and the correct scheme, we can compete with any team on any given night. Without Cuz, our team looks lifeless and a team which could challenge for the least number of wins in NBA history. We just can't beat anyone without him for the most part. Can't even stay in the game. The list of players with that impact is extremely short. So unless you're proposing trading Cuz for a top 5 player(which I still wouldn't do), GTFO. I'd ask Ziller, which NBA team has ever, and really, ever, mismanaged a future HOF talent to this extent. There's your problem.
I think everyone's attitude will greatly improve with a winning environment, especially for Cousins. I do think his current attitude and demeanor has been a net negative, but we have been playing so poorly that it's one strike of many.
I'm much more concerned about George Karl than I am Demarcus Cousins. But that's for a different thread.
I'm much more concerned about George Karl than I am Demarcus Cousins. But that's for a different thread.
At what point can we pinpoint Cousins as a problem on the Kings?
He's one of the hardest players in the NBA to deal with. I doubt many coaches, if any, would be able to successfully coach and mentor him.
We wouldn't even be talking about trading for Cousins, if he didn't have such a poor attitude.
It's been so bad this year. We, as Kings fans, like to downplay things, but Cousins has been terrible with his body language. He's constantly yelling at the refs and giving up points because he's upset. I'm pretty sure he cursed at the ref the last game too.
At what point do we hold him accountable for his own actions? I'm curious.
Does this become Vlade's fault for not surrounding him with enough shooters? I think so. You give him Rondo, who can't shoot at all..and you pair him up with WCS who has no offensive game.
We would've been better off with Jeremy Lin as our starting PG than Rondo.
I hope things change real soon with the entire team. I have so much confidence in Cousins, but I'm starting to lose it.
He's one of the hardest players in the NBA to deal with. I doubt many coaches, if any, would be able to successfully coach and mentor him.
We wouldn't even be talking about trading for Cousins, if he didn't have such a poor attitude.
It's been so bad this year. We, as Kings fans, like to downplay things, but Cousins has been terrible with his body language. He's constantly yelling at the refs and giving up points because he's upset. I'm pretty sure he cursed at the ref the last game too.
At what point do we hold him accountable for his own actions? I'm curious.
Does this become Vlade's fault for not surrounding him with enough shooters? I think so. You give him Rondo, who can't shoot at all..and you pair him up with WCS who has no offensive game.
We would've been better off with Jeremy Lin as our starting PG than Rondo.
I hope things change real soon with the entire team. I have so much confidence in Cousins, but I'm starting to lose it.
Poor attitude? You mistake being fed up with a losing and incompetent culture with a poor attitude.
James Ham @James_Ham
According to Casspi, Cousins sent out a text to his teammates last night to tell them how much he cares about the team and wants to win.
What an ***hole.
James Ham @James_Ham
According to Casspi, Cousins sent out a text to his teammates last night to tell them how much he cares about the team and wants to win.
What an ***hole.
Nobody ever said Cuz doesn't have his issues. We're saying he's so far down the list of Kings' problems it's not even worth talking about. Again, there's nothing to suggest he's difficult to deal with in the locker room (unless you suggest Paul Westphal was an NBA-level coach). He's emotional, for sure, and many here, including me, called him out on his antics. But we also recognized that he is and has been criminally misused by every coach he's ever had, except one. I'd like to see your attitude if you were engulfed in the idiocy of this franchise for 5+ years.
Vlade did as good of a job as he could, given what he inherited. More shooters would've been nice but he can't conjure something out of nothing, and I think this roster (if used right) can compete with the best of them in the Western Conference. Too bad our coach doesn't seem to know wtf to do with a dominant big man and how to build an offense around him.
But no, it's Cousins that we should be holding accountable and demand even more of.
Vlade did as good of a job as he could, given what he inherited. More shooters would've been nice but he can't conjure something out of nothing, and I think this roster (if used right) can compete with the best of them in the Western Conference. Too bad our coach doesn't seem to know wtf to do with a dominant big man and how to build an offense around him.
But no, it's Cousins that we should be holding accountable and demand even more of.
Here come the idiotic comments concerning Cousins and his attitude. ****ing unreal. His career has been playing for owners who torpedoed the team when they were trying to move the franchise, playing for a GM/special advisor who torpedoed the season when he's finally having some on court team success because they had an agenda, and now he's playing for a head coach who might not be up to the challenge....a head coach who publicly tried to trade the franchise player. Cousins chooses to make this relationship work because he believes in Vlade and his teammates. The young man wants to win. The kid has improved every year....become a legit defensive player when challenged by Malone to become one. And now he's being challenged to fit into a system that might not be best suited to an elite talent, bit he's going out and doing it.
It's embarrassing to insinuate that the fault of this franchise is to be put on Cousins. It smacks of sensationalism.
It's embarrassing to insinuate that the fault of this franchise is to be put on Cousins. It smacks of sensationalism.
No disrespect to Kevin Love, I would trade almost any combination of players NOT named DMC for him in a heartbeat. From a stats perspective he is a monster and NEXT to Lebron he is deadly. But DMC not only puts up HOF numbers other teams have to adjust their game because of his presence typically trying to just remove him through cheapies hoping he will loose it. The attitude complaint is just too vague. DMC is NOT a head case like Sheed, he complains too much sure, but he does not fight or disrupt the team. DMC unlike Love is a leader who wants to win more than anything (hence his frustrations). He has endured the worst owners in professional sports and a rotating set of coaches and teammates that would make it hard for anyone to win. That is why despite all my reservations about Karl I do NOT want to see him go at this point. As far as carrying a team on their back that is an over used phrase that has little meaning. Did last years finals establish that Lebron can not "put the team on his back?" Just the hideously low number of games the Kings have won without DMC alone show what kind of impact he has on the team. Finely, I believe that the 4 games DMC missed were due to a strained tendon not mental problems or body language issues.
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You trade cousins people won't be happy until big cuz is on another team killing the league and the kings are still wallowing in the same mediocrity we've been in for the last 10 years. Heck, when cousins is finally gone and this team is a worse dumpster fire than it currently is, you people will be pining for the cousin years in the worst way.
Lol Cousins is a leader?
Lol
Oh you don't mean all those ****ing times where he doesn't get a call, so he decides he doesn't have to get back on defense? You mean that amazing attitude?
He is a problem on this team. He is not being the leader he should be. Each game, it's always something new for him to complain about.
If the rest of the guys see Cousins quit, do you think that'll motivate them to play better?
Last game vs. the Spurs was very winnable, but Cousins quit, then the entire team quit.
How can anyone possibly blame that on Karl or anyone else aside from the players?
This is an effort thing. Last 10 games of last season, Cousins and the team put in 100% effort.
Cousins has the nastiest attitude in the NBA. He needs to figure things out and take charge of this team. He needs to stop complaining to refs. He need to stop taking plays off. He needs to stop it.
I really hope he figures it out real soon. He has way too much talent to be acting this way.
Vlade doesn't know how to acquire players. We needed shooting...desperately.
Only additional shooter he added was Marco. Cuz is being forced to play with Rondo and WCS both of whom, can't shoot.
Karl has been dealt with a crap hand too. Ball dominant PG who can't score nor space the floor. Inept SG who can't do anything right. Ball dominant SF who likes chucking up shots. Rookie PF that lacks an offensive game.
Not all of this is Cousins' fault. I'm not saying it is. What I am saying is that he is a part of the problem just like how Rudy is.
Lol
Oh you don't mean all those ****ing times where he doesn't get a call, so he decides he doesn't have to get back on defense? You mean that amazing attitude?
He is a problem on this team. He is not being the leader he should be. Each game, it's always something new for him to complain about.
If the rest of the guys see Cousins quit, do you think that'll motivate them to play better?
Last game vs. the Spurs was very winnable, but Cousins quit, then the entire team quit.
How can anyone possibly blame that on Karl or anyone else aside from the players?
This is an effort thing. Last 10 games of last season, Cousins and the team put in 100% effort.
Cousins has the nastiest attitude in the NBA. He needs to figure things out and take charge of this team. He needs to stop complaining to refs. He need to stop taking plays off. He needs to stop it.
I really hope he figures it out real soon. He has way too much talent to be acting this way.
Vlade doesn't know how to acquire players. We needed shooting...desperately.
Only additional shooter he added was Marco. Cuz is being forced to play with Rondo and WCS both of whom, can't shoot.
Karl has been dealt with a crap hand too. Ball dominant PG who can't score nor space the floor. Inept SG who can't do anything right. Ball dominant SF who likes chucking up shots. Rookie PF that lacks an offensive game.
Not all of this is Cousins' fault. I'm not saying it is. What I am saying is that he is a part of the problem just like how Rudy is.
Funny when I read the article I thought "there goes Tom again" until he went for Vlade's throat on the Sixers trade. I feel like unfollowing him just on that. I know xteperas will retweet anything worthwhile from Ziller so I will probably just go ahead and unfollow. Whoever does a DMC trade with us is going to win the trade no matter what - I don't see how you advocate moving DeMarcus for anyone who is not a top 10 NBA player today.
You'll have to point out where I said his attitude was "amazing".
And you seem to be under the impression Cuz getting frustrated and not hustling back on defense 2-3 times a game somehow is anywhere near one of our biggest problems, or that all he brings to the table throughout the game is outweighed by those 2-3 possessions.
Just a foolish argument.
I'll tell you what, take Cuz and his occasional frustrations combined with all the good he brings, off this team, and we're far worse. Far worse. But hey, at least 206 won't have to watch Cuz complain.
And you seem to be under the impression Cuz getting frustrated and not hustling back on defense 2-3 times a game somehow is anywhere near one of our biggest problems, or that all he brings to the table throughout the game is outweighed by those 2-3 possessions.
Just a foolish argument.
I'll tell you what, take Cuz and his occasional frustrations combined with all the good he brings, off this team, and we're far worse. Far worse. But hey, at least 206 won't have to watch Cuz complain.
Yes, and we should have traded Cousins this year for D'Angelo Russel and Julius Randle.
The response is always the same: no you don't you idiot.
The entire point of getting a Top 3 pick is to draft DeMarcus Cousins. That's it. There is no magic beyond that. You drafted a HOFer, you won. Congrats. Once you have already accomplished that goal, there is absolutely no point in trading your HOFer for a pick that might have a chance to turn into a HOFer.
And the rest of course is just the standard Philly tanking fantasy, never mind all the years of atrocious basketball they are still enduring hoping to one day, you guessed it, draft DeMarcus Cousins.
The response is always the same: no you don't you idiot.
The entire point of getting a Top 3 pick is to draft DeMarcus Cousins. That's it. There is no magic beyond that. You drafted a HOFer, you won. Congrats. Once you have already accomplished that goal, there is absolutely no point in trading your HOFer for a pick that might have a chance to turn into a HOFer.
And the rest of course is just the standard Philly tanking fantasy, never mind all the years of atrocious basketball they are still enduring hoping to one day, you guessed it, draft DeMarcus Cousins.
You seem to have a preconceived notion of Cousins being the problem and working your argument backwards from it, so it doesn't really matter what I say. Thankfully, we have a very nice control sample of 15 or so games last year where the exact same core achieved exactly the results we knew they are capable of.
You can't claim Karl was dealt a raw deal when he's been handed the most talented and NBA ready roster we've had in 10 years. It's on HIM that he can't use it. It's on the coach that he can't focus on defense. Effort takes you only so far when the coach demands that you switch every screen resulting in Rondo guarding Blake Griffin. I'm not sure how Cuz is supposed to take charge of this team - rip Karl's head off and become the first player-coach in history? If the coach tells him to stand at the 3pt line and wait for his turn to drive (unless you're implying Karl doesn't have the control of the locker room to tell him NOT to do it?) - how is Cousins supposed to put his team on the back and will it to victory?
Choosing to highlight the handful of times when Cousins got so frustrated by the game plan that he doesn't run back on D is admirable, but really it's just focusing on symptoms, not the core problem with this team.
You can't claim Karl was dealt a raw deal when he's been handed the most talented and NBA ready roster we've had in 10 years. It's on HIM that he can't use it. It's on the coach that he can't focus on defense. Effort takes you only so far when the coach demands that you switch every screen resulting in Rondo guarding Blake Griffin. I'm not sure how Cuz is supposed to take charge of this team - rip Karl's head off and become the first player-coach in history? If the coach tells him to stand at the 3pt line and wait for his turn to drive (unless you're implying Karl doesn't have the control of the locker room to tell him NOT to do it?) - how is Cousins supposed to put his team on the back and will it to victory?
Choosing to highlight the handful of times when Cousins got so frustrated by the game plan that he doesn't run back on D is admirable, but really it's just focusing on symptoms, not the core problem with this team.
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I'll be following the Cousins situation closely. Cousins is a great HOF talent but lets not pretend Cousins doesn't have attitude issues the guy is a cry baby. It doesn't help the Kings situation that Ben Mac really didn't pan out yet either.
Kings should move Gay, addition by subtraction. I would try everything I could before I would move Cousins
Kings should move Gay, addition by subtraction. I would try everything I could before I would move Cousins
With some of our future picks in swap mode, and this pick going to Chicago if it is after 10, it sort of forces our hand to do the best we can.
Cousins trade value should be peak after this season with 2 years on the contract.
So value wise it is best to move him in the off season if you are going to move him.
All we have to do to keep him in town in my opinion is have a coaching staff and system in place he believes in and show progress, combined with spending money on the supporting cast. Nothing fancy, but sometimes it seems like it will take a miracle to get the ship sailing in the right direction.
So it comes down to not being in the best pre trade situation to rebuild, max value coming, belief if we can turn it around next season at the latest.
Cousins is so talented I think you pretty much have to believe there is no way in hell we will be ready by the time his contract is up to trade him.
I don't think Vlade or Vivek believe we are in that hopeless of a circumstance yet.
Cousins trade value should be peak after this season with 2 years on the contract.
So value wise it is best to move him in the off season if you are going to move him.
All we have to do to keep him in town in my opinion is have a coaching staff and system in place he believes in and show progress, combined with spending money on the supporting cast. Nothing fancy, but sometimes it seems like it will take a miracle to get the ship sailing in the right direction.
So it comes down to not being in the best pre trade situation to rebuild, max value coming, belief if we can turn it around next season at the latest.
Cousins is so talented I think you pretty much have to believe there is no way in hell we will be ready by the time his contract is up to trade him.
I don't think Vlade or Vivek believe we are in that hopeless of a circumstance yet.