[Game] Kings @ Clippers - 10/31 - 7:30 PT, 10:30 ET

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Please God of basketball, let this be a full season of The Ben Battles.

It's kinda nice he's now the one glaring weakness.

Ben supporters aren't arguing he's good. I just argue starting him and dealing with the pains that causes is better for the team and franchise in the long run.

As long as we are paying him, they have to at least try to develop him.

This isn't a title contending team. I still maintain the best shot at that in the near future is developing Ben, not a short term fix with a Kmart type.

Now, I've got to break ranks here: we may or may not be a title contending team, but we are a playoffs contending team; that's within our grasp, and that's what we need to be focused on, because Cousins is ready to make the playoffs NOW. And really, we can't ask him to continue to suffer through indignity after indignity until we're ready to 'win a championship', and expect him to stick around when he becomes a free agent. We need to show our best player that we're making a good-faith effort to compete. Competing, for us, would mean making the playoffs, even as the eighth seed.

I'm willing to stipulate that the one complaint about McLemore which has been valid is that he does not appear to give us the best chance of making the playoffs this year. Where I separate from McLemore's critics is with what has become this whole "Anybody But Ben" mentality. I would rather we had a better starting option, but I would also rather trade him than bench him. Benching McLemore would be re-arranging deck chairs, it's not going to amount to a damned thing.

Trade him if we must, but if our options are starting McLemore or starting Anderson, then we have no options. Hell, I'd be happy to see him go, if only to avoid six more months of this bull****, but Kings Fans being what we are, I know damned well that once we're 'rid' of him, it'll just be on to the next one.

 

[Merdiesel]

Brick your bias is so strong I can't take you seriously on this subject.

After pushing for James Anderson to start you completely lost any credibility whatsoever.

Didn't James Anderson thoroughly outplay McLemore all preseason?

 

[sdballer]

Didn't James Anderson thoroughly outplay McLemore all preseason?

With the exception of the final game, Anderson shot in the 20% range. Again, if we're swapping Ben out for someone with less upside, let's make it for someone contributing significantly more now.

 

[Merdiesel]

Yeah, those two things are equivalent. Except, wait... no they're not. First of All™, you "taking the week off," so to speak, wouldn't 'definitely" lead to your team being below its sales target, unless there's literally no one else at your company that can do your job (in which case, you may want to ask for a raise, but that's another discussion). And secondly, McLemore got off to a bad start; he wasn't dogging it out there, he wasn't half-assing it. He was playing hard, he just wasn't playing well. He didn't give up on this team, he didn't quit on his team, the decision to play was taken out of his hands (EDIT - And it should have been. He was stinking the joint out). In both of the first two games, McLemore got off to a bad start, and then played better in the third quarter. Last night, he wasn't given a chance to play at all in the third quarter.

A more accurate analogy would be if you blew your first two sales calls of the week, and your team lead decided that he was going to pull you off the phones for the rest of the week, and then your team fell short of your sales target, and then all of the shareholders started blaming you.

If by letting Reddick drop 20 ppg on your *** by getting whatever he wants offensively ain't dogging it, I don't know what is.

We are definitely not going to see eye to eye on this one and this is going nowhere.

 

[Entity]

If Rondo and WCS continue their offensive production especially Rondo then Bens lack of production doesn't hurt with the starting unit, BUT he has to focus on defense and make good decisions and hit his open shots when he gets them. Bellineli starting isn't the answer. The starting SG spot isn't getting the ball but 7-10 times a game. Anybody expecting Ben to get 12-15 pts a game? That isn't going to happen with 3 starters getting 20+ and WCS getting 10-15.
The SG spot that currently fits this team is ideal for a Doug Christie. Play great defense, have good handles and passing ability and hit your open shots. Ben isn't currently doing any of that.

 

[KingsFanGER]

If Rondo and WCS continue their offensive production especially Rondo then Bens lack of production doesn't hurt with the starting unit, BUT he has to focus on defense and make good decisions and hit his open shots when he gets them. Bellineli starting isn't the answer. The starting SG spot isn't getting the ball but 7-10 times a game. Anybody expecting Ben to get 12-15 pts a game? That isn't going to happen with 3 starters getting 20+ and WCS getting 10-15.
The SG spot that currently fits this team is ideal for a Doug Christie. Play great defense, have good handles and passing ability and hit your open shots. Ben isn't currently doing any of that.

But we don't have Doug Christie on this team right now and we ain't getting him back or any player close to him.
And from my point of view Ben did a decent job on D in the first quarter, was more aggressive and was really fighting hard to get over this screens.
We did a very good job on the pick&rolls in the first half.
Clippers got back into the game, because they changed their approach and got to the line. But they were forced to adjust to our defense, which is not a bad thing at all, when you remember how easily they scored on us on opening night.

 

[sdballer]

If by letting Reddick drop 20 ppg on your *** by getting whatever he wants offensively ain't dogging it, I don't know what is.

We are definitely not going to see eye to eye on this one and this is going nowhere.

He scored 20 points in 10 minutes? That was a good game that never actually happened.

I think you're right that if you insist on using imaginary numbers to illustrate your points that this debate probably isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Didn't James Anderson thoroughly outplay McLemore all preseason?

Whether you go by raw numbers or per36, Anderson averaged slightly more rebounds and assists, while McLemore averaged significantly more points and steals. You may be working from a different definition of "throughly outplayed" than the rest of us.

 

[pshn80]

You think bellinelli is?

Seriously what game are you watching?

Bellinelli dribbles, passes, pushes it well, Ben doesn't. It's not rocket science.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He scored 20 points in 10 minutes? That was a good game that never actually happened.

But, don't you see? If McLemore had pulled his weight, we wouldn't have been subjected to thirty-eight minutes of mediocre defense by the other three guys. Or something.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Bellinelli dribbles, passes, pushes it well, Ben doesn't. It's not rocket science.

Ben can drive straight, is not that bad passing the ball, but is certainly not the playmaker Belli is. I'll give you that.
But our starting unit doesn't need additional playmaking. And when they need it, we sub in Belli.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If by letting Reddick [sic] drop 20 ppg on your *** by getting whatever he wants offensively ain't dogging it, I don't know what is.

According to the play-by-play, Redick scored 61 percent of his points when McLemore was on the bench. Who'd he drop 20 on?

 

[sdballer]

According to the play-by-play, Redick scored 61 percent of his points when McLemore was on the bench. Who'd he drop 20 on?

The better options

 

[sdballer]

Bellinelli dribbles, passes, pushes it well, Ben doesn't. It's not rocket science.

Which is why Marco is such a great for with our bench unit. It's not rocket science

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If Rondo and WCS continue their offensive production especially Rondo then Bens lack of production doesn't hurt with the starting unit, BUT he has to focus on defense and make good decisions and hit his open shots when he gets them. Bellineli starting isn't the answer. The starting SG spot isn't getting the ball but 7-10 times a game. Anybody expecting Ben to get 12-15 pts a game? That isn't going to happen with 3 starters getting 20+ and WCS getting 10-15.

That's the other thing: Bellinelli is a much better floor spacer than McLemore, but if we put him into the starting lineup, his role actually decreases. You think he's going to continue to get 9-10 shots a game, when he's in there playing alongside Cousins and Gay? 'Cause he won't.

He also won't be making as many plays with the ball: one of the things that make our bench super effective is that everybody is a good/willing passer. As a starter, Bellinelli's role would be minimized, due to the other three guys monopolizing the ball.

 

[Chubbs]

Didn't James Anderson thoroughly outplay McLemore all preseason?

Absolutely not.

And Ben was dreadful

 

[Chubbs]

Bellinelli dribbles, passes, pushes it well, Ben doesn't. It's not rocket science.

no but it's actually a lot more complicated than people seem to want it to be.

They don't need a guy with those skills in the starting lineup. There aren't enough basketballs.

 

[Merdiesel]

Whether you go by raw numbers or per36, Anderson averaged slightly more rebounds and assists, while McLemore averaged significantly more points and steals. You may be working from a different definition of "throughly outplayed" than the rest of us.

I said nothing about specific numbers.

McLemore was completely lost and the biggest disappoint all preseason. You and SD can defend Ben until you're blue in the face. Keep holding on to that upside and denying the fact he is holding our team back.

 

[Chubbs]

I said nothing about specific numbers.

McLemore was completely lost and the biggest disappoint all preseason. You and SD can defend Ben until you're blue in the face. Keep holding on to that upside and denying the fact he is holding our team back.

Why'd we lose this game since Ben didn't even play in the second half? Did he look at someone funny from the bench?

 

[Merdiesel]

He scored 20 points in 10 minutes? That was a good game that never actually happened.

I think you're right that if you insist on using imaginary numbers to illustrate your points that this debate probably isn't going to go anywhere.

So no accountability in letting your man get hot right out the gate. got it.

 

[pshn80]

Ben can drive straight, is not that bad passing the ball, but is certainly not the playmaker Belli is. I'll give you that.
But our starting unit doesn't need additional playmaking. And when they need it, we sub in Belli.

Thanks for that. Coach is starting Ben. Ben is getting his chance despite his first wo years. Trading hm is better than benching him. I go with the coach on this. He still can come up to acceptable but he is wearing out or has lost his welcome. His teammates seem to support him but for how long and is that even good at this point.

 

[Chubbs]

So no accountability in letting your man get hot right out the gate. got it.

So everything that happens with or without Ben in the game is his fault?

Got it.

 

[sdballer]

So no accountability in letting your man get hot right out the gate. got it.

Speaking of lack of accountability, isn't it tiring having to abandon your arguments every time someone counters with actual facts?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I said nothing about specific numbers.

You didn't really 'say' anything. I certainly hope, though, that when you claim that Player A was 'thoroughly outplayed' by Player B, that you have more to back it up with than the 'eye test,' or your gut feeling.

McLemore was completely lost and the biggest disappoint all preseason. You and SD can defend Ben until you're blue in the face. Keep holding on to that upside and denying the fact he is holding our team back.

And you, by all means, keep 'holding on' to the lie that I'm 'denying' that McLemore is holding the team back. I've always been more anti-McLemore 'bullying*' than I've ever been pro-McLemore.

* - And no, I don't need you to tell me that what you people are doing doesn't rise to the level of 'bullying', but it's the closer word I can think of, off the top of my head, to what you actually are doing.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Watched the first half again and still have no idea why people are focusing on Ben after this game. In the entire first quarter he missed one defensive rotation for a wide open Reddick 3, cause he stayed too close to Griffin.
He left the game at 4:51 to go with a two point lead for us. And most of our point where scored in transition out of solid defensive plays. Ben even had a nice And-1 and a good hard drive where he missed a point blank layup, which was cleaned up by Willie. He came back at 3:22 to go in the second quarter. Immediately picked up Paul in transition and forced the ball out of his hands. Again had a nice drive but was out of control and missed the layup again.

I don't see huge problems with Ben in the starting lineup. And he did a very solid job on D and was improved on the offensive side of the floor too. Problem is, that he will never get many touches.

Reddick never got hot, by playing against Ben.

 

[Merdiesel]

Speaking of lack of accountability, isn't it tiring having to abandon your arguments every time someone counters with actual facts?

I'm not abandoning ****.

I'm apparently debating Ben McLemore's Mom, Dad and Grandma all at the same time here. I can't keep up. Not to mention the Declaration of Independence that's peppered throughout. There isn't a 500 word limit, slim.

 

[sdballer]

I'm not abandoning ****.

I'm apparently debating Ben McLemore's Mom, Dad and Grandma all at the same time here. I can't keep up. Not to mention the Declaration of Independence that's peppered throughout. There isn't a 500 word limit, slim.

I'm just impressed that you think ben's grandma has such a good grasp on roster management.

 

[Merdiesel]

I'm just impressed that you think ben's grandma has such a good grasp on roster management.

Did you just give yourself a gold star?

 

[sdballer]

Did you just give yourself a gold star?

Yeah but don't worry, there's a participation ribbon heading your way

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm not abandoning ****.

I'm apparently debating Ben McLemore's Mom, Dad and Grandma all at the same time here. I can't keep up. Not to mention the Declaration of Independence that's peppered throughout. There isn't a 500 word limit, slim.

I feel like this was supposed to be an insult directed towards me, but it's not clear what the insult is meant to be.