[Game] Clippers @ Kings - 10/28 - 7 p.m. PT/10 p.m. ET
- Thread starter Sac.Kings
- Start date
But that's the thing. AD doesn't "get in a zone down low". He's an amazing player but (1) he's not a polished/skilled or powerful low post player and (2) not a go-to scorer. In a lot of ways Davis reminds me of a bigger, even more skilled but less intense Kevin Garnett. He can do a lot of things very well - rebound, block shots, anchor the defense, handle the ball, shoot midrange jumpers (and he's been extending his effective range), run the floor etc but he's still not a guy who I would want to say "here's the ball in a crucial moment, go get us two points".
What Draymond Green did was use his very strong lower body to not allow AD post position and live with him shooting jumpers. There will be some nights where Davis hits enough jumpers to do real damage but most teams will live with him trying to beat them with 15 to 20 footers.
What Draymond Green did was use his very strong lower body to not allow AD post position and live with him shooting jumpers. There will be some nights where Davis hits enough jumpers to do real damage but most teams will live with him trying to beat them with 15 to 20 footers.
I'll absolutely leave it to the coach. Ben can be our first SG, our second, third ,fourth or fifth or gone, I want to be done waiting for him to show up. I'll be there and want to see a win however they do it. A bit of an uphill climb but why not take the bit now.
The coaches have been with these guys every day, I'll go with their rotations. Looking forward ro onions on my hotdog.
The coaches have been with these guys every day, I'll go with their rotations. Looking forward ro onions on my hotdog.
If Karl says that Anderson is our best perimeter defending guard, I'm going with him as opposed to the guys here who have their panties in a bunch because Ben is possibly not going to start. You can't make Ben a good Starting SG in the NBA by giving him more playing time. If Anderson is a bum, then what does that make Ben? Serious question.
I'm going to focus on the excitement of the first game and the new team...got great potential here, hope it comes out tonight.
I'm going to focus on the excitement of the first game and the new team...got great potential here, hope it comes out tonight.
It potentially makes Ben another wasted top 10 pick.
I can't speak for Slim but I'm not calling for Ben to start. I want the best team that the Kings can put on the floor. But the point still stands - IF the best option for a starting SG is James Anderson then so be it. But it absolutely ruins McLemore's trade value. So you deal him ASAP. I think we're all frustrated with Ben not developing as we feel he should have. And maybe he'll never get to even where I lowered my expectations during his rookie year which is as a solid 3&D wing. But he won't develop sitting most of the season and he won't have hardly any trade value after that either.
I'd love for things to finally click for Ben but if the decision is to bury him as the 5th or 6th guard then the team is better off getting something of value for him now.
I can't speak for Slim but I'm not calling for Ben to start. I want the best team that the Kings can put on the floor. But the point still stands - IF the best option for a starting SG is James Anderson then so be it. But it absolutely ruins McLemore's trade value. So you deal him ASAP. I think we're all frustrated with Ben not developing as we feel he should have. And maybe he'll never get to even where I lowered my expectations during his rookie year which is as a solid 3&D wing. But he won't develop sitting most of the season and he won't have hardly any trade value after that either.
I'd love for things to finally click for Ben but if the decision is to bury him as the 5th or 6th guard then the team is better off getting something of value for him now.
He also didn't really rebound last night either. Or block shots for that matter. It wasn't a good night for him by almost any measure.
But that said, the Pelicans were one of only five teams to allow a higher opponent shooting percentage than the Kings. And I was trying to remember what last night's broadcast team said - I believe it was that New Orleans led the league in blocked shots but also had the highest opponent FG% in the paint.
I don't know what Davis' ceiling is but he's already a great player. I still wouldn't trade Cousins for him. And I have a feeling all these people penciling in the Hornets as a playoff team are going to be surprised in April.
But that said, the Pelicans were one of only five teams to allow a higher opponent shooting percentage than the Kings. And I was trying to remember what last night's broadcast team said - I believe it was that New Orleans led the league in blocked shots but also had the highest opponent FG% in the paint.
I don't know what Davis' ceiling is but he's already a great player. I still wouldn't trade Cousins for him. And I have a feeling all these people penciling in the Hornets as a playoff team are going to be surprised in April.
i agree. the kings' roster was completely overhauled in the offseason, and it stands a chance to compete for the eighth seed out west if the team gels reasonably well, but the hornets are returning with basically the same exact roster, and with their injury history and the meat grinder of the western conference still to consider, i haven't the slightest idea why so many "experts" have decided that the hornets are going to improve enough to be considered a playoff lock. in a mad dash to prize efficiency above all else, so many have anointed anthony davis as the next big thing, but i don't think he's ready for the mantle, and i'm not even sure what all of that individual efficiency adds up to in the end, given that basketball is a team sport in which chemistry, roster-wide commitment to defense, and competitive drive all matter...
i mean, there's no doubt that AD is a uniquely gifted and tremendously talented player, but, as with demarcus cousins, he's surrounded by players who may not be able to help elevate him into the upper echelon of a brutally tough conference, provided they're healthy enough to give him an assist in the first place. unlike demarcus cousins, however, i have yet to see anthony davis flash the kind of will that he can readily impose upon the game itself. DMC is so driven to compete that the overly emotional manifestation of that drive ends up holding him back. but, despite those faults, at least we know that he wants to be the best. with davis, it remains to be seen. as pop would say, i want to see some nasty from AD on a regular basis...
i mean, there's no doubt that AD is a uniquely gifted and tremendously talented player, but, as with demarcus cousins, he's surrounded by players who may not be able to help elevate him into the upper echelon of a brutally tough conference, provided they're healthy enough to give him an assist in the first place. unlike demarcus cousins, however, i have yet to see anthony davis flash the kind of will that he can readily impose upon the game itself. DMC is so driven to compete that the overly emotional manifestation of that drive ends up holding him back. but, despite those faults, at least we know that he wants to be the best. with davis, it remains to be seen. as pop would say, i want to see some nasty from AD on a regular basis...
Not to nitpick but the "Hornets" are the Pelicans because now there actually is another Hornets team ..
I think you also have to take into consideration their making the playoffs last season despite their injury history. People are also putting stock into having Gentry as coach. I certainly don't think they are a playoff lock the same way any of the elite teams are, but they would have definitely had a solid chance if not for the fact that they've started the season with their starting PG (whether Jrue or Tyreke), starting SF (Pondexter), starting C (Asik), 6th man (Jrue or Tyreke), backup PG (Cole) and fringe rotational player Babbitt out.
Disagree with the thing about AD's competitive drive though. He has said multiple times that he wants to be the best and all reports indicate that he's worked on it as well. He's still a very young player, let's not forget that and expect him to be in his prime both physically and in terms of skillset. If you want to talk about playoff ball, he's by definition far more proven than Cousins (since Cousins hasn't even sniffed being in a fight for the playoffs), and played pretty well in their series against GS.
I think you also have to take into consideration their making the playoffs last season despite their injury history. People are also putting stock into having Gentry as coach. I certainly don't think they are a playoff lock the same way any of the elite teams are, but they would have definitely had a solid chance if not for the fact that they've started the season with their starting PG (whether Jrue or Tyreke), starting SF (Pondexter), starting C (Asik), 6th man (Jrue or Tyreke), backup PG (Cole) and fringe rotational player Babbitt out.
Disagree with the thing about AD's competitive drive though. He has said multiple times that he wants to be the best and all reports indicate that he's worked on it as well. He's still a very young player, let's not forget that and expect him to be in his prime both physically and in terms of skillset. If you want to talk about playoff ball, he's by definition far more proven than Cousins (since Cousins hasn't even sniffed being in a fight for the playoffs), and played pretty well in their series against GS.
What do you suppose we trade him for?
Giving up on another draft pick is the last thing this FO needs to do. It shows absolutely 0 development skills and inept...yet again.
Gave up on T-Rob half way through the season. Dumped Stauskas and drsft swaps and pick for cap space. Now it's Ben's 3rd year and if he doesn't start, we're going to be get rid of him too.
No wonder Justise Winslow, Stanley Johnson, and Emmanuel Mudiay declined to workout with us.
What type of message does this send to our young guys? If you can't be a good NBA player, we have no use for you. 2 years of development should be good enough.
Giving up on another draft pick is the last thing this FO needs to do. It shows absolutely 0 development skills and inept...yet again.
Gave up on T-Rob half way through the season. Dumped Stauskas and drsft swaps and pick for cap space. Now it's Ben's 3rd year and if he doesn't start, we're going to be get rid of him too.
No wonder Justise Winslow, Stanley Johnson, and Emmanuel Mudiay declined to workout with us.
What type of message does this send to our young guys? If you can't be a good NBA player, we have no use for you. 2 years of development should be good enough.
This. I get why there were concerns about having to play Ben 30+ min. He's 23 and inconsistently puts up 12, 3 and 2 while shooting 44% and 36% from 3. With his rotational defense still improving, we need an option to play someone else on the nights he's off. We have that in Marco and to an extent dc.
Where my "panties get in a bunch" is in suggesting we can't tolerate waiting for him to improve on his performance while starting an older, inferior producer in his place. Maybe Anderson has lower lows (which is debatable) but he also clearly has much lower highs and it would be a short sighted demotion when we already have a backup plan in place.
Where my "panties get in a bunch" is in suggesting we can't tolerate waiting for him to improve on his performance while starting an older, inferior producer in his place. Maybe Anderson has lower lows (which is debatable) but he also clearly has much lower highs and it would be a short sighted demotion when we already have a backup plan in place.
It's not just that Ben wouldn't start. He wouldn't be the backup either. He'd be the third string SG for a coach that also has a tendency to play 2 PGs for stretches. He'd be buried. Which means no more in game development, which is what Ben absolutely needs if it's ever going to click for him.
My hope is that Ben McLemore starts and things finally slow down for him to the point where he can be relatively consistent on both ends and provide sufficient outside shooting.
But if he's losing his spot to James Freaking Anderson and not seeing any court time behind he, Belinelli and Collison then you definitely look and see if there's a deal out there that will help the team more than McLemore as the 5th or 6th guard on the team. The fact that the Kings have traded away so many top 10 picks recently is at the heart of why they've failed to win 30 games or more for seven straight seasons. It's crappy. But Jimmer was just cut from the Spurs and Robinson is now on his 5th team in four years and will be lucky if he can carve out a career as a rebounding specialist off the bench. The jury is still out on Stauskas and he's been hurt all preseason so it's hard to say if he's taken any steps forward from a terrible rookie campaign. IMO it's not about the Kings not being able to develop talent as it is the Kings making terrible draft picks for the last four years. Ben is the only one of them that I was in favor of at the time and the only one that I think can still be a starting caliber player on a good team.
But if you're going to bury him on the bench and tank his trade value you might as well deal him now and at least get something back. I don't care how that looks to the rest of the league or to potential draft picks or to "our young guys". Perceptions change when teams finally start winning.
My hope is that Ben McLemore starts and things finally slow down for him to the point where he can be relatively consistent on both ends and provide sufficient outside shooting.
But if he's losing his spot to James Freaking Anderson and not seeing any court time behind he, Belinelli and Collison then you definitely look and see if there's a deal out there that will help the team more than McLemore as the 5th or 6th guard on the team. The fact that the Kings have traded away so many top 10 picks recently is at the heart of why they've failed to win 30 games or more for seven straight seasons. It's crappy. But Jimmer was just cut from the Spurs and Robinson is now on his 5th team in four years and will be lucky if he can carve out a career as a rebounding specialist off the bench. The jury is still out on Stauskas and he's been hurt all preseason so it's hard to say if he's taken any steps forward from a terrible rookie campaign. IMO it's not about the Kings not being able to develop talent as it is the Kings making terrible draft picks for the last four years. Ben is the only one of them that I was in favor of at the time and the only one that I think can still be a starting caliber player on a good team.
But if you're going to bury him on the bench and tank his trade value you might as well deal him now and at least get something back. I don't care how that looks to the rest of the league or to potential draft picks or to "our young guys". Perceptions change when teams finally start winning.
S
Green didn't do anything...
Tim Legler (ESPN) did a great video break down of just how soft A.D. was last night... and his total lack of attempt at playing in the paint. A.D. isn't a post up prodigy but thats where he does his damage... and he refused to play in the place where he can positively effect the game... thus they got crushed... A.D. can do a lot of things pretty well. but he needs to be in the paint to dominate.
Tim Legler (ESPN) did a great video break down of just how soft A.D. was last night... and his total lack of attempt at playing in the paint. A.D. isn't a post up prodigy but thats where he does his damage... and he refused to play in the place where he can positively effect the game... thus they got crushed... A.D. can do a lot of things pretty well. but he needs to be in the paint to dominate.
I see that you quoted my post, but it doesn't appear that you are responding to it. Either that, or you didn't read it, because you're not really addressing anything I actually said.
I agree that Karl should go with who he thinks is best. I actually said that, in the post that you quoted. I didn't necessarily agree before, but I've come around. I still don't like it, but to paraphrase the great American philosopher Dwayne Johnson, it doesn't matter if I like it. But, as @funkykingston pointed out, if McLemore isn't starting, he's going to be relegated to a garbage time player. He's going to get a lot of DNP-CD's. Some people are happy with that, some people aren't. That, in and of itself, is kind of whatever, but you can get anybody to do that. Paying somebody $3M to be the 15th man is stupid; we might as well call Stockton back up for that.
Why would you quote me, and then lead off with "I'll absolutely leave it to the coach," as if I said something which suggested otherwise?
I agree that Karl should go with who he thinks is best. I actually said that, in the post that you quoted. I didn't necessarily agree before, but I've come around. I still don't like it, but to paraphrase the great American philosopher Dwayne Johnson, it doesn't matter if I like it. But, as @funkykingston pointed out, if McLemore isn't starting, he's going to be relegated to a garbage time player. He's going to get a lot of DNP-CD's. Some people are happy with that, some people aren't. That, in and of itself, is kind of whatever, but you can get anybody to do that. Paying somebody $3M to be the 15th man is stupid; we might as well call Stockton back up for that.
Why would you quote me, and then lead off with "I'll absolutely leave it to the coach," as if I said something which suggested otherwise?
Refused might be a bit strong of a word.
Remember: new coach. And new coach is a small balling idiot who's made the playoffs 2x in 12 years of coaching (some of those part years since teams keep firing him, go figure). And my consistent A.D. complaint has been his inability to create his own shot. His play "in the paint" is diving in for alley oops or off of pick and rolls. plays where the guy scoring isn't doing all, or in some cases even most of the work, and the quality of the passer on the other end and his chemistry with the dunker/finisher is key. In short A.D. to me has always looked dependent on others, and that's a weakness. It means that in order to stop A.D., maybe all you have to do is stop the guys feeding him, or as was the case last night, just have them all out with injury. Cuz doesn't care or need that stuff. He can start racking up 30-20 games with a 3rd string kid and a 39year old grandpa as his PGs. He creates himself. A.D....the very reason for his vaunted efficiency is that he does not. Most of the dangerous and difficult work of creating those opportunities is being taken care of by guards. When the guard play is better, so is A.D.
Remember: new coach. And new coach is a small balling idiot who's made the playoffs 2x in 12 years of coaching (some of those part years since teams keep firing him, go figure). And my consistent A.D. complaint has been his inability to create his own shot. His play "in the paint" is diving in for alley oops or off of pick and rolls. plays where the guy scoring isn't doing all, or in some cases even most of the work, and the quality of the passer on the other end and his chemistry with the dunker/finisher is key. In short A.D. to me has always looked dependent on others, and that's a weakness. It means that in order to stop A.D., maybe all you have to do is stop the guys feeding him, or as was the case last night, just have them all out with injury. Cuz doesn't care or need that stuff. He can start racking up 30-20 games with a 3rd string kid and a 39year old grandpa as his PGs. He creates himself. A.D....the very reason for his vaunted efficiency is that he does not. Most of the dangerous and difficult work of creating those opportunities is being taken care of by guards. When the guard play is better, so is A.D.
That's most of it. No Tyreke and no Jrue means a lot less penetration and drawing the defense for Davis. Ish Smith had a strong game scoring and passing but his assists weren't getting Davis easy looks. And Gordon was just chucking away to the tune of 5-17. And as always for me it isn't so much the percentage as the shot selection. He was taking poor shots as if he was going to go bucket for bucket with Curry.
But Davis also wasn't fighting for position down low. He seemed perfectly content to catch the ball 15 ft from the basket. And tossing him the ball at that distance and asking him to get you buckets is just not going to be a successful strategy.
And the Warriors didn't even have a stellar game. Barnes and Green both went 3-12. Bogut was injured and left the game early in the third quarter. Thompson only scored 9 points. They had 29 assists but also had 20 turnovers. Basically it was Curry having an explosive night and (probably more importantly) absolute domination on the glass as they out rebounded New Orleans 56 to 33.
But Davis also wasn't fighting for position down low. He seemed perfectly content to catch the ball 15 ft from the basket. And tossing him the ball at that distance and asking him to get you buckets is just not going to be a successful strategy.
And the Warriors didn't even have a stellar game. Barnes and Green both went 3-12. Bogut was injured and left the game early in the third quarter. Thompson only scored 9 points. They had 29 assists but also had 20 turnovers. Basically it was Curry having an explosive night and (probably more importantly) absolute domination on the glass as they out rebounded New Orleans 56 to 33.
I found it both amusing and sad in watching the games last night, we saw Hoiberg turn Pau into a perimeter oriented shooter and Gentry turn Davis into a perimeter oriented shooter.
Davis isn't a guy you can run offense thru on the block but there's quite a difference between that and being turned into a perimeter hugging weenie.
Karl better not do the same with Cuz. It's a disease in the modern NBA. On one hand, there is a lack of post players compared to previous eras, on the other hand, there's a lack of modern coaches who know how to utilize the post players that are in the league.
As for Davis being on the perimeter, when Gentry signed on he was very clear he wanted Davis working on his 3 ball this past summer, wanted Davis outside to spread the floor. Idiot. Should have told him to work on his post and back to the basket game so they can play thru him. Oh well, helps us.
Davis isn't a guy you can run offense thru on the block but there's quite a difference between that and being turned into a perimeter hugging weenie.
Karl better not do the same with Cuz. It's a disease in the modern NBA. On one hand, there is a lack of post players compared to previous eras, on the other hand, there's a lack of modern coaches who know how to utilize the post players that are in the league.
As for Davis being on the perimeter, when Gentry signed on he was very clear he wanted Davis working on his 3 ball this past summer, wanted Davis outside to spread the floor. Idiot. Should have told him to work on his post and back to the basket game so they can play thru him. Oh well, helps us.
