So Rajon Rondo just dropped 186 spots on the ESPN rankings...
- Thread starter Guy Larboni
- Start date
couldnt have said it better myself. the national narrative hasnt changed much and long may it stay the same - We're a bunch of scrubs, nobodys, self implosion is imminent to all outside kingsland.
we will shock the world shortly. can not wait for it and that Rondo/Collison due will be the head of the beautiful snake
Forget that, the real news from nba rank was that Stauskas ranked 1 spot ahead of Casspi... if you watched the Kings and thought Nik was better than Omri you're crazy (I guess the argument there is his college numbers and getting a lot of shots in the 76ers).
Rondo's drop was expected.
Another note- JJ Hickson didn't make the cut- never liked him as a player, but no way he doesn't make the list.
Rondo's drop was expected.
Another note- JJ Hickson didn't make the cut- never liked him as a player, but no way he doesn't make the list.
Is it right to think of Rondo as a "boom or bust" player this coming year? That's my knee-jerk when I think about him, that he's going to be an All-Star caliber player or he's going to flame out bigtime. I just find it hard to see him as a middle-of-the-road guy, like Collison with a different number on his back.
I feel the same way.
Rondo will either be a horrible horrible liability and locker room cancer....
Or....
He's gonna to be a crucial cog to our success, average double digit dimes, rediscover his defense, be a leader, and I'll have to eat crow and apologize to King Baller for doubting his optimism.
No middle ground!!
Rondo will either be a horrible horrible liability and locker room cancer....
Or....
He's gonna to be a crucial cog to our success, average double digit dimes, rediscover his defense, be a leader, and I'll have to eat crow and apologize to King Baller for doubting his optimism.
No middle ground!!
I think that's pretty much how we have to view Rondo. He's extremely ball dominant while being a poor shooter. If he gets back to being a good defender, starts attacking the basket again and thrives in Karl's system while finding guys in their spots for easy looks well then he could be a success. If he's still hesitant to drive, looks a foot slow, doesn't give full effort on D and has friction with Karl he could be a disaster that holds the team back similar to what happened in Dallas.
I'd love to agree with the notion that we'll see the best of Rondo because he's only got a one year deal and needs to repair his image after his stint with the Mavericks but I don't. Rondo went from a struggling Celtics team to one of the better teams in the West, had better talent around him, a chance to shine on a playoff stage and most of all was a free agent after the season and he still flamed out, presumably because he clashed with his coach.
My gut feeling is that Rondo will play very well and be one of the reasons people point to as the reason for the Kings surprising start. I could be wrong (and I admittedly was against trading for Rondo when PDA and the Kings were in a seemingly endless string of rumors about it) but Karl's offense and the offensive weapons he has around him seem to make it likely he'll succeed.
We'll see.
I'd love to agree with the notion that we'll see the best of Rondo because he's only got a one year deal and needs to repair his image after his stint with the Mavericks but I don't. Rondo went from a struggling Celtics team to one of the better teams in the West, had better talent around him, a chance to shine on a playoff stage and most of all was a free agent after the season and he still flamed out, presumably because he clashed with his coach.
My gut feeling is that Rondo will play very well and be one of the reasons people point to as the reason for the Kings surprising start. I could be wrong (and I admittedly was against trading for Rondo when PDA and the Kings were in a seemingly endless string of rumors about it) but Karl's offense and the offensive weapons he has around him seem to make it likely he'll succeed.
We'll see.
I just wonder whether the clash with the coach wasn't in part due to the flame out; not the other way around. Like you say, we'll see. If Rondo plays like an All Star I can't see why the Kings wouldn't have a huge turnaround, making the playoffs fairly easily. If, on the other hand, he flames out, the Kings won't sniff .500 ball, imo.
My expectations of Rondo this year
Thats it. If he does that, we win 10 more games than last year
- Floor General/Coach on floor
- Distributor
- Above average defense
- Make good decisions with the ball
- Keep ball flowing in Karl's offense (I know he's been a ball stopper before, but he's smart, I think he can figure this out)
- Shoot at least 65% FT, 30% 3PT
- Allow DC to come off the bench and be a 6th Man candidate
Thats it. If he does that, we win 10 more games than last year
It's the time of year for fans to run wild with any rumor or bit of info that they get out of training camp (Jason Thompson can hit threes now!) but I did find it interesting that it was Collison and not Rondo that was running the first team in yesterday's scrimmage.
On the one hand it makes a lot of sense to have the guy more familiar with Rudy and Boogie to be their PG but then again if Rondo were already thought of as the starter then why not give him the reins from day 1.
Also, lots of chatter about the PG "competition". I wouldn't be too quick to pencil Rajon into the starting lineup.
It makes the most sense for him to start as he's definitely not an off the bench energy guy, but I definitely hope Karl is making him earn that role.
On the one hand it makes a lot of sense to have the guy more familiar with Rudy and Boogie to be their PG but then again if Rondo were already thought of as the starter then why not give him the reins from day 1.
Also, lots of chatter about the PG "competition". I wouldn't be too quick to pencil Rajon into the starting lineup.
It makes the most sense for him to start as he's definitely not an off the bench energy guy, but I definitely hope Karl is making him earn that role.
I disagree with that a little.
Rondo likes the ball in his hands, and without it he is a burden because of his shooting.
Since Cousins is so dominant and likes the ball too (and to a lesser extent Rudy), it can be a somewhat awkard fit, since as a team I think we are better off with the ball in DMC's hands. On the second unit Rondo (in theory) can make a limited offensive five with some shooters and slashers that doesn't need the ball to be effective into an effective bunch.
While he doesn't qualify as the traditional "spark plug" PG kind of guy, I think that there are benefits with playing him with the second unit, and I honestly think the starting unit is better with DC (the +/- of that core was very good last year).
My worry in that regard is how Rondo is going to react to that, especially considering it's a contract year for him and being a back up can potentially cost him money.
Rondo likes the ball in his hands, and without it he is a burden because of his shooting.
Since Cousins is so dominant and likes the ball too (and to a lesser extent Rudy), it can be a somewhat awkard fit, since as a team I think we are better off with the ball in DMC's hands. On the second unit Rondo (in theory) can make a limited offensive five with some shooters and slashers that doesn't need the ball to be effective into an effective bunch.
While he doesn't qualify as the traditional "spark plug" PG kind of guy, I think that there are benefits with playing him with the second unit, and I honestly think the starting unit is better with DC (the +/- of that core was very good last year).
My worry in that regard is how Rondo is going to react to that, especially considering it's a contract year for him and being a back up can potentially cost him money.
Cousins' "ball dominance" is being dramatically overstated here.
Yes, Cousins might be the GOAT ballhandling center, and he handles it much more than other centers. But he's still a center. We have stats for this stuff now, and last year Cousins had the ball in his hands a grand total of 2.7 minutes every game. 0.1min a game longer than Blake Griffin's 2.6. Rudy Gay had it a further 2.8min, which is the same amount of time that Kevin Durant had the ball.
I'm pretty sure that Rondo will survive without the ball for 5.5 of each game. Last year he had the ball himself 6.5min/gm. Which was likely artificially low due to Dallas wanting him to share control with Ellis. Collison actually had it 6.9min/gm. The league leader was (and is normally) Wall at 8.2 min/gm. But that number is fine because Wall uses those minutes to set up teammates as does Rondo.
If CP3 (7.8min) and Blake (2.6min) work ok and Westbrook (7.7min) and Durant (2.8min) work ok, Rondo and Cousins or Gay should be fine, and even Cousins and Gay together can only be a minor strain, because Ben McLemore can't dribble and barely touches the ball, and a Kosta Koufos or WCS is going to be the same. Defensive roleplayers, almost a forgotten concept in Kings land, can always free up your stars/ball dominant players to be themselves. I think in total we're oversubscribed, time of possessionwise, by maybe a minute. Not 100% perfect, but surely workable.
For a great 1 on 1 player, a PG is kind of a luxury anyway. Rajon Rondo isn't really there for Cousins or even Gay, although he can help him be a tad more efficient. Rondo is there for the rest of the guys. I'm more worried about Karl's "ball don't stick" offense than anythign else, since almsot by definition the ball sticks to great PGs. Steve Nash was a hugely ball dominant player too. If George Karl kept on screaming at him to give the ball up every 2 seconds he'd be an idiot. You accept ball stickiness from great pure PGs because its sticking to them for a team purpose. They aren't probing looking for themselves, they are looking to set up somebody else, which is the whole point of ball movement in the first place. With a great pure PG the ball movement is just being accomplished with a PG attached to the ball.
Yes, Cousins might be the GOAT ballhandling center, and he handles it much more than other centers. But he's still a center. We have stats for this stuff now, and last year Cousins had the ball in his hands a grand total of 2.7 minutes every game. 0.1min a game longer than Blake Griffin's 2.6. Rudy Gay had it a further 2.8min, which is the same amount of time that Kevin Durant had the ball.
I'm pretty sure that Rondo will survive without the ball for 5.5 of each game. Last year he had the ball himself 6.5min/gm. Which was likely artificially low due to Dallas wanting him to share control with Ellis. Collison actually had it 6.9min/gm. The league leader was (and is normally) Wall at 8.2 min/gm. But that number is fine because Wall uses those minutes to set up teammates as does Rondo.
If CP3 (7.8min) and Blake (2.6min) work ok and Westbrook (7.7min) and Durant (2.8min) work ok, Rondo and Cousins or Gay should be fine, and even Cousins and Gay together can only be a minor strain, because Ben McLemore can't dribble and barely touches the ball, and a Kosta Koufos or WCS is going to be the same. Defensive roleplayers, almost a forgotten concept in Kings land, can always free up your stars/ball dominant players to be themselves. I think in total we're oversubscribed, time of possessionwise, by maybe a minute. Not 100% perfect, but surely workable.
For a great 1 on 1 player, a PG is kind of a luxury anyway. Rajon Rondo isn't really there for Cousins or even Gay, although he can help him be a tad more efficient. Rondo is there for the rest of the guys. I'm more worried about Karl's "ball don't stick" offense than anythign else, since almsot by definition the ball sticks to great PGs. Steve Nash was a hugely ball dominant player too. If George Karl kept on screaming at him to give the ball up every 2 seconds he'd be an idiot. You accept ball stickiness from great pure PGs because its sticking to them for a team purpose. They aren't probing looking for themselves, they are looking to set up somebody else, which is the whole point of ball movement in the first place. With a great pure PG the ball movement is just being accomplished with a PG attached to the ball.
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I don't think I'm overstating Cousins ball dominance, that's not my point- my point is that Rondo is ineffective without the ball and if I had to choose who i'd rather have the ball in his hands in a certain possession I chose Cousins and DC is a far superior weapon off the ball than Rondo.
You said yourself that Rondo isn't there for Cousins and Gay- but Cousins and Gay creates the majority of points in your starting five, for that exact reason Rondo is so well suited to play without Rudy/DMC or when only one of them plays.
About the last part- not to be a downer, but we don't know if Rondo can be a "great pure PG" even if he is engaged. he can be good no doubt, but even from an optimist perspective I don't see him as being that great of a player.
And I'm not sure if it's an effective concept to give Rondo the reins of the starting five, the time of possession stat you brought is a little flawed since Rondo didn't have the ball in his hands in Dallas like he used to and was extremely not effective- if you take a look a year back for his time in Boston:
Rondo was 2nd overall in time of possession with 7.8 and if you adjust it to minutes played he is higher than Wall who was first.
The Celtics as a whole in the entire game had 18.9 minutes of possession, if you adjust Rondo's minutes to 48 he had the ball 11.14 minutes which means on the time Rondo was on the floor his time of possession was: 59% of the entire team! that's very ball dominant, and Rondo needs to get to high numbers to be effective.
You said yourself that Rondo isn't there for Cousins and Gay- but Cousins and Gay creates the majority of points in your starting five, for that exact reason Rondo is so well suited to play without Rudy/DMC or when only one of them plays.
About the last part- not to be a downer, but we don't know if Rondo can be a "great pure PG" even if he is engaged. he can be good no doubt, but even from an optimist perspective I don't see him as being that great of a player.
And I'm not sure if it's an effective concept to give Rondo the reins of the starting five, the time of possession stat you brought is a little flawed since Rondo didn't have the ball in his hands in Dallas like he used to and was extremely not effective- if you take a look a year back for his time in Boston:
Rondo was 2nd overall in time of possession with 7.8 and if you adjust it to minutes played he is higher than Wall who was first.
The Celtics as a whole in the entire game had 18.9 minutes of possession, if you adjust Rondo's minutes to 48 he had the ball 11.14 minutes which means on the time Rondo was on the floor his time of possession was: 59% of the entire team! that's very ball dominant, and Rondo needs to get to high numbers to be effective.
How come this topic has stalled since Oct. 1st?
No more "locker-room cancer", "quitter", "selfish", "overrated", "bust", "finished", "luckily-it's-only-a-one-year-deal" posts?
Ah.. and as you can see, his teammates can't really stand him from day one...
Nothing is worse than a biased statement based on lack of knowledge. How many times did you read KG or Paul Pierce (the people that really know him) trashing on RR? Zero.
Yet, scoop-dreamers, anonymous bloggers and expert wannabees have been quoted for months about who is the "real Rajon Rondo" like they actually owned the Word.
Where are all these supreme experts now?
No more "locker-room cancer", "quitter", "selfish", "overrated", "bust", "finished", "luckily-it's-only-a-one-year-deal" posts?
Ah.. and as you can see, his teammates can't really stand him from day one...
Nothing is worse than a biased statement based on lack of knowledge. How many times did you read KG or Paul Pierce (the people that really know him) trashing on RR? Zero.
Yet, scoop-dreamers, anonymous bloggers and expert wannabees have been quoted for months about who is the "real Rajon Rondo" like they actually owned the Word.
Where are all these supreme experts now?
You know what's the most ridiculous out of all this? Those same "couch-experts" have barely seen RR playing, if ever, apart from some Mavs games on TV.
Forget his assists or the defensive effort you have seen so far in Sacramento. Rajon's most visible impact on this Kings' team has been his intensity and commitment. Exactly what "Rajon's last minute biographers" have been claiming he lacks big time. What a bunch of sad haters.
Forget his assists or the defensive effort you have seen so far in Sacramento. Rajon's most visible impact on this Kings' team has been his intensity and commitment. Exactly what "Rajon's last minute biographers" have been claiming he lacks big time. What a bunch of sad haters.