Kings and free agency - part 4

[dude12]

So you're expecting a player who is 1 season removed from a productive season (while keeping in mind that this said player has never relied on athleticism or a 3pt shot) to have a huge dropoff?

What I'm saying is that at this point, Vlade has decided to go with someone younger whose best skill, outside shooting, is more valuable to the team than what Miller may bring and I'm on board with the decision. Miller at this advanced age is not going to get better and he already is severely diminished in parts of his game (defense) and its not to get better, it's going to get worse. I think if you look at half the rosters in the league, many of the teams have a 3rd PG that is not your ideal "PG" but more combo guard.

If Miller was such a valuable commodity, why would Washington have traded him for Ramon Sessions? Washington a playoff team where the guy was getting minutes. Sessions who was awful last year for us. I like Miller and think he's one of the all-time greats but that ship has sailed.

 

[dude12]

My thinking is if we get to the point where Rondo or Collison are out for a long period of time we can always make a trade or sign a vet. If one of them is out I simply see a situation where Rondo or Collison play extended minutes and Curry plays 10-15 minutes.

Karls system isnt complicated, pressure defense, get out and run, a lot of dribble drive action in the halfcourt and an emphasis on Cousins and Gay. Plus if it ever got to that point you can play Curry with Bellineli for added ball handling.

Correct.

 

[Jkbiker]

I will still take Rondo, Collison, Seth

over

Collison, Sessions, RayMac

But the reason I like Seth over Miller?

1 Seth wants to be here
2 Upside for development and being a big time Bench Scorer in future years
3 Third PG normally will not get big minutes anyway
4 Occasional experiment with 2 pgs? Backup for 2-5 games due to a sprain? Im ok with that
5 If season ending injury to Rondo, DC we would get another PG vet anyway

 

[twslam07]

What I'm saying is that at this point, Vlade has decided to go with someone younger whose best skill, outside shooting, is more valuable to the team than what Miller may bring and I'm on board with the decision. Miller at this advanced age is not going to get better and he already is severely diminished in parts of his game (defense) and its not to get better, it's going to get worse. I think if you look at half the rosters in the league, many of the teams have a 3rd PG that is not your ideal "PG" but more combo guard.

If Miller was such a valuable commodity, why would Washington have traded him for Ramon Sessions? Washington a playoff team where the guy was getting minutes. Sessions who was awful last year for us. I like Miller and think he's one of the all-time greats but that ship has sailed.

Saying the ship has sailed doesn't make it true. The proof is in the tape. The proof is in the stats. All you need to do is take a look.

Is 39 old for a basketball player? You betcha, but it doesn't mean someone can't be effective at that age. You have players who age well and you have players who age poorly. Miller is obviously a guy who has aged well. You couple that with the fact that his game has never been about athleticism (the major area that decreases with age), and you still have a productive player.

It's not about Miller getting better. It's about making it to the playoffs. Would you rather risk a 39 old PG who doesn't rely on athleticism and is 1 year removed from a productive season will be good enough to fill in or would you rather risk that an undrafted, 25 year old, SG converted to PG who has played 21 minutes in the NBA is going to be good enough to fill in? The answer's pretty clear to me...

You can talk about this undrafted player's potential all you want, but we're still in a situation where we should be trying to make the playoffs. 3rd PGs can be more valuable to a team's success than people think.

I have no problem with Curry and would be fine with him as a 4th PG. I just would rather have a more sure thing at a position where one of our guards had a serious knee injury two years ago and the other guard is coming back from a surgery to fix his hip flexor.

 

[Jkbiker]

Moreland,Dukan,Anderson,Seth

All of these guys are

A. cheap insurance for short term injury
B. Have potential to bring Defense or Shooting to our bench in future years
c Even if 2 0f the 4 turn into solid rotation players - all better that 3rd string 40 year olds

Way to look to the future Vlade!

 

[twslam07]

Moreland,Dukan,Anderson,Seth

All of these guys are

A. cheap insurance for short term injury
B. Have potential to bring Defense or Shooting to our bench in future years
c Even if 2 0f the 4 turn into solid rotation players - all better that 3rd string 40 year olds

Way to look to the future Vlade!

Rotation players are easy to find. Playoff teams shouldn't be taking flyers on young players with "rotation" potential. They should be filling their team with actual rotational players.

I'm fine with Moreland because I do think he can fill a role as a 5th big right now and I do think he has potential to be more than a role player. I'm also okay with Anderson because he's good enough to fill a role today as a 3rd SG.

I'm okay with the curry signing if he is playing the 4th guard role (not really a threat to play with injuries, but he can be used in very specific situations like needing a 3), but I don't see him as having more potential than a rotational player and I don't think he's good enough to rely on as your 3rd PG. I'm not a fan of the Dukan signing on any level.

 

[Jkbiker]

Ok Dukan? yeah I see your point

But I am still on the Seth Bandwagon, Summer League standouts, leads summer league in Pts per game
Moreland every one seems ok with him and its all based on summer league play , very little NBA minutes, hustle and hard work

Seth has all that and was summer league standout
but what if ?

He becomes in one season a 6th man scoring machine , that was what Vlade was supposed to go out and GET - SHOOTERS

this is not 3-4 year potential like dukan

I see this as potential big time shooter off the bench
Whether it is next year or whether this year due to injury
Seth just might be the shooter we need

 

[twslam07]

Ok Dukan? yeah I see your point

But I am still on the Seth Bandwagon, Summer League standouts, leads summer league in Pts per game
Moreland every one seems ok with him and its all based on summer league play , very little NBA minutes, hustle and hard work

Seth has all that and was summer league standout
but what if ?

He becomes in one season a 6th man scoring machine , that was what Vlade was supposed to go out and GET - SHOOTERS

this is not 3-4 year potential like dukan

I see this as potential big time shooter off the bench
Whether it is next year or whether this year due to injury
Seth just might be the shooter we need

Adam Morrison also tore up summer league. There are players who can dominate at a certain level, but their skills don't transfer over to the NBA as nicely. Jimmer was a great example in college trying to transition. Morrison was a great example in college and summer league. Sometimes you have to watch the player to get a sense for if they can play at another level.

Moreland is not all based on summer league play. There was 3 years of tape to watch when he was at Oregon State, there was D-League play, there was two summer leagues, and then you have his measurements to reference.

If Curry becomes a 6th man scorer, great! But don't wage our playoff hopes by putting an unknown, natural SG as our 3rd string PG. Have him be the 4th guard in the rotation, and have him EARN his way into the rotation. For a team battling for a playoff spot, we should not be relying on an undrafted player who has played 21 minutes in the NBA, and if Rondo or Collison gets hurt, that is exactly what will happen. It's just not a smart thing to do for what we want to accomplish.

And I would say the exact same thing if Moreland was our 4th big off the bench. If one of our bigs goes down, you're asking a lot from an undrafted player with limited NBA minutes to come in and give decent production. Make these young, "good potential" players EARN a role.

 

[peacelate]

The good thing is the Kings have until the trade deadline to make improvements if one of Rondo or Collison gets injured.

 

[dude12]

Saying the ship has sailed doesn't make it true. The proof is in the tape. The proof is in the stats. All you need to do is take a look.

Is 39 old for a basketball player? You betcha, but it doesn't mean someone can't be effective at that age. You have players who age well and you have players who age poorly. Miller is obviously a guy who has aged well. You couple that with the fact that his game has never been about athleticism (the major area that decreases with age), and you still have a productive player.

It's not about Miller getting better. It's about making it to the playoffs. Would you rather risk a 39 old PG who doesn't rely on athleticism and is 1 year removed from a productive season will be good enough to fill in or would you rather risk that an undrafted, 25 year old, SG converted to PG who has played 21 minutes in the NBA is going to be good enough to fill in? The answer's pretty clear to me...

You can talk about this undrafted player's potential all you want, but we're still in a situation where we should be trying to make the playoffs. 3rd PGs can be more valuable to a team's success than people think.

I have no problem with Curry and would be fine with him as a 4th PG. I just would rather have a more sure thing at a position where one of our guards had a serious knee injury two years ago and the other guard is coming back from a surgery to fix his hip flexor.

Why do you think Washington traded Miller for Sessions? Explain that to me.

 

[upinsmoke]

Why do you think Washington traded Miller for Sessions? Explain that to me.

We'll you see the thing about that is... umm err

 

[gunks]

I just like that we are arguing about the value and on court impact of 3rd stringers, as opposed to starters, for once.

Curry brings upside, Andre would have brought experience.

Personally, I would have preferred Andre. But, what's done is done. If Seth can put up points in the big league as a deep bench option, I'll be happy.

If Collison or Rondo gets hurt, or if Rondo doesn't work out, and Curry needs to play in a role that he can't handle, I'm confident that Vlade will make a move.

 

[sono]

I just like that we are arguing about the value and on court impact of 3rd stringers, as opposed to starters, for once.

Curry brings upside, Andre would have brought experience.

Personally, I would have preferred Andre. But, what's done is done. If Seth can put up points in the big league as a deep bench option, I'll be happy.

If Collison or Rondo gets hurt, or if Rondo doesn't work out, and Curry needs to play in a role that he can't handle, I'm confident that Vlade will make a move.

Yes, we haven't had that luxury for a long time.
I'm not concerned about the new addition, easily replaceable if it doesn't work out.

 

[KingMilz]

Didn't Miller say last year that he's either playing for Sacramento or retiring?

He's always said he wanted this to be his last season (2015-2016 season).

Also I'm sure if Rondo or DC goes down we could replace (we obviously would not be as good) them with a speedy ball handling guard someone like Phil Pressey or Ish Smith I don't really think it's that big a issue the PG spot is just loaded with players who can fill in nicely for brief periods.

 

[twslam07]

Why do you think Washington traded Miller for Sessions? Explain that to me.

Keep ignoring my points. It just makes your argument look even weaker.

As for the Sessions/Miller question. My first response would be why don't you ask them? Why did the Kings think a swap between John Salmons and Beno Udrih was enough to justify moving back 3 spots in the draft? Why did the Kings think it was wise to trade Thomas for a TPE and Oriakhi? Why did the Kings think it was fair value to trade Evans for Vasquez? There are winners and losers in every trade. I'm not sure how this helps your point.

With that being said, Sessions was 1 year removed from a solid season (per36: FG% .429 / 3PT% .282 / FT% .807 / 16.6 PPG / 3.3 RPG / 5.5 APG / 0.8 SPG / 0.1 BPG / 2.4 TOPG). Then he goes to a team who has been a mess time and time again, and he suffers. Perhaps the 7 year vet, at the time, just needed a change of scenery to get back to the level he was playing at before? He didn't play poorly at Washington (per36: FG% .411 / 3PT% .406 / FT% .812 / 13.6 PPG / 4.9 RPG / 5.7 APG / 1.1 SPG / 0.0 BPG / 2.3 TOPG), so maybe it wasn't as bad as you think.

Wall is a true playmaker at the point as well. Perhaps they wanted their backup PG to be more focused on scoring to help elevate their second unit. Sessions has been a scoring PG throughout his career. Whereas, Miller has been more of a distributing PG. The fact that they were banking on a change of scenery bringing his play up and the fact that they probably preferred a scoring PG off the bench were probably two big reasons why they made the trade.

Ultimately, I think you're missing the point. The point that I want to make with this Sessions/Miller discussion is that I would take either of them to be our 3rd PG in a heartbeat. Sessions is a much more established PG than Curry, and even though he didn't play well the 36 games he was here, I would be much more confident with him as our 3rd PG than Curry. He's had a decent career, and he even finished out the end of last season on a good note. It's much less risky to have an established player in that 3rd PG role than an unknown commodity.

I have no problem with Curry in the 4th PG role. Absolutely no problem. If he ends up being good enough to be a 3rd PG, great! Now we have two PGs who can fill the 3rd PG role, but a team going into the playoffs should not run the risk of not having a serviceable 3rd PG because you're hoping an unknown commodity pans out. It's just not smart GMing.

Now if you're a team that's not serious about competing for the playoffs, that's a different story. It seems like some of you are still stuck with the mindset that we're not competing for a playoff spot next year. I know it's been awhile, Kings fans, but it's about time we change that mindset and rethink what our goals are.

 

[twslam07]

I just like that we are arguing about the value and on court impact of 3rd stringers, as opposed to starters, for once.

Curry brings upside, Andre would have brought experience.

Personally, I would have preferred Andre. But, what's done is done. If Seth can put up points in the big league as a deep bench option, I'll be happy.

If Collison or Rondo gets hurt, or if Rondo doesn't work out, and Curry needs to play in a role that he can't handle, I'm confident that Vlade will make a move.

But that's the point. You shouldn't leave to leave that to change. Bring in a 3rd PG who you know can adequately hold down the fort if one of your top 2 PGs gets hurt. If Curry turns out to be this great 6th man off the bench, awesome! Your PGs are even stronger! But you do not risk your PG rotation being weak based on upside and potential. Not when you're trying to compete for a playoff spot.

 

[206Fan]

Keep ignoring my points. It just makes your argument look even weaker.

As for the Sessions/Miller question. My first response would be why don't you ask them? Why did the Kings think a swap between John Salmons and Beno Udrih was enough to justify moving back 3 spots in the draft? Why did the Kings think it was wise to trade Thomas for a TPE and Oriakhi? Why did the Kings think it was fair value to trade Evans for Vasquez? There are winners and losers in every trade. I'm not sure how this helps your point.

With that being said, Sessions was 1 year removed from a solid season (per36: FG% .429 / 3PT% .282 / FT% .807 / 16.6 PPG / 3.3 RPG / 5.5 APG / 0.8 SPG / 0.1 BPG / 2.4 TOPG). Then he goes to a team who has been a mess time and time again, and he suffers. Perhaps the 7 year vet, at the time, just needed a change of scenery to get back to the level he was playing at before? He didn't play poorly at Washington (per36: FG% .411 / 3PT% .406 / FT% .812 / 13.6 PPG / 4.9 RPG / 5.7 APG / 1.1 SPG / 0.0 BPG / 2.3 TOPG), so maybe it wasn't as bad as you think.

Wall is a true playmaker at the point as well. Perhaps they wanted their backup PG to be more focused on scoring to help elevate their second unit. Sessions has been a scoring PG throughout his career. Whereas, Miller has been more of a distributing PG. The fact that they were banking on a change of scenery bringing his play up and the fact that they probably preferred a scoring PG off the bench were probably two big reasons why they made the trade.

Ultimately, I think you're missing the point. The point that I want to make with this Sessions/Miller discussion is that I would take either of them to be our 3rd PG in a heartbeat. Sessions is a much more established PG than Curry, and even though he didn't play well the 36 games he was here, I would be much more confident with him as our 3rd PG than Curry. He's had a decent career, and he even finished out the end of last season on a good note. It's much less risky to have an established player in that 3rd PG role than an unknown commodity.

I have no problem with Curry in the 4th PG role. Absolutely no problem. If he ends up being good enough to be a 3rd PG, great! Now we have two PGs who can fill the 3rd PG role, but a team going into the playoffs should not run the risk of not having a serviceable 3rd PG because you're hoping an unknown commodity pans out. It's just not smart GMing.

Now if you're a team that's not serious about competing for the playoffs, that's a different story. It seems like some of you are still stuck with the mindset that we're not competing for a playoff spot next year. I know it's been awhile, Kings fans, but it's about time we change that mindset and rethink what our goals are.

Ahh, it's a good day when you're a kings fan and you're arguing about your 3rd PG. I think everyone agrees with the fact that if any team in the NBA has to depend on their 3rd PG, they're basically ****ed.

You're nitpicking, but it brings good discussion. Take a look at the rest of the NBA and their 3rd PG please do..

I'll give you a few from our conference.
GSW- NO ONE
Clippers- NO ONE
Rockets- NO ONE
OKC- NO ONE
Grizz- Smith(Lousiville Russ)
Portland- Frazier(who?)
Suns- Price(Ronnie)

So we actually aren't that far away from everyone else... And if you want to bring up certain team's ball handlers like Iggy and Harden..we have a few too..in Rudy and Casspi.

We're putting a lot of stock in a 3rd guard. I think our team has enough vets and ball handling that even if we did need to depend on Curry, we'll still be ok.

 

[twslam07]

Ahh, it's a good day when you're a kings fan and you're arguing about your 3rd PG. I think everyone agrees with the fact that if any team in the NBA has to depend on their 3rd PG, they're basically ****ed.

You're nitpicking, but it brings good discussion. Take a look at the rest of the NBA and their 3rd PG please do..

I'll give you a few from our conference.
GSW- NO ONE
Clippers- NO ONE
Rockets- NO ONE
OKC- NO ONE
Grizz- Smith(Lousiville Russ)
Portland- Frazier(who?)
Suns- Price(Ronnie)

So we actually aren't that far away from everyone else... And if you want to bring up certain team's ball handlers like Iggy and Harden..we have a few too..in Rudy and Casspi.

We're putting a lot of stock in a 3rd guard. I think our team has enough vets and ball handling that even if we did need to depend on Curry, we'll still be ok.

GSW: You mean Curry, Livingston, and Igoudala?
SAS: You mean Parker, Mills, and McCallum?
OKC: You mean Westbrook, Augustin, and Payne?
LAC: You mean Paul, Rivers, Prignoni, Crawford, and Stephenson?
HOU: You mean Lawson, Beverley, and Harden?
DAL: You mean Williams, Harris, Barea, and Felton?
NOP: You mean Evans, Holiday, and Cole?
UTA: You mean Exum, Burks, and Burke?
PHX: You mean Bledsoe, Knight, and Goodwin?

By my count, there is only 1 team who doesn't have someone who can fill in and play the role of 3rd PG (Memphis). That's 1 out of the 10 (2 of the 11 if you include us) who will be competing for a playoff spot this year.

I have no idea why you're trying to relate what Iguodala and Harden do to what Gay and Casspi do. Iguodala and Harden can bring the ball up and run an offense effectively. Gay and Casspi are nowhere near that level.

 

[KingMilz]

Why do you think Washington traded Miller for Sessions? Explain that to me.

Simply because him and Wall could not play together (due to Miller lack of a shot) and Miller wanted to play more.

 

[Boogie_Fever]

Seth Curry reminds me of Eddie House.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't know whether we are worse off than many teams with our 3rd PG, I just think we are in a more precarious position than virtually any of those teams and can't afford to be taking chances. We can't fail here or this thing will likely explode in disastrous fashion. And we have no tradition of winning to fall back on. Teams with guys who have been together and winning forever can survive a lot of adversity and just win on autopilot out of tradition alone. But we don't have that winning team shock absorber, we're going to feel every bump for a while. Hence my preference to do everything possible this year to keep things absolutely smooth with no choppy water. No falloff we can avoid having.

If we have no injuries then Curry's signing cannot hurt us, and if he blossoms he might be able to make some contributions around the edges. But as I've said before the concern on the other hand is if something goes wrong at the PG position and we suddenly have to depend on a guy who was signing 10 day contracts a few months ago.

 

[Noble]

Keep ignoring my points. It just makes your argument look even weaker.

As for the Sessions/Miller question. My first response would be why don't you ask them? Why did the Kings think a swap between John Salmons and Beno Udrih was enough to justify moving back 3 spots in the draft? Why did the Kings think it was wise to trade Thomas for a TPE and Oriakhi? Why did the Kings think it was fair value to trade Evans for Vasquez? There are winners and losers in every trade. I'm not sure how this helps your point.

With that being said, Sessions was 1 year removed from a solid season (per36: FG% .429 / 3PT% .282 / FT% .807 / 16.6 PPG / 3.3 RPG / 5.5 APG / 0.8 SPG / 0.1 BPG / 2.4 TOPG). Then he goes to a team who has been a mess time and time again, and he suffers. Perhaps the 7 year vet, at the time, just needed a change of scenery to get back to the level he was playing at before? He didn't play poorly at Washington (per36: FG% .411 / 3PT% .406 / FT% .812 / 13.6 PPG / 4.9 RPG / 5.7 APG / 1.1 SPG / 0.0 BPG / 2.3 TOPG), so maybe it wasn't as bad as you think.

Wall is a true playmaker at the point as well. Perhaps they wanted their backup PG to be more focused on scoring to help elevate their second unit. Sessions has been a scoring PG throughout his career. Whereas, Miller has been more of a distributing PG. The fact that they were banking on a change of scenery bringing his play up and the fact that they probably preferred a scoring PG off the bench were probably two big reasons why they made the trade.

Ultimately, I think you're missing the point. The point that I want to make with this Sessions/Miller discussion is that I would take either of them to be our 3rd PG in a heartbeat. Sessions is a much more established PG than Curry, and even though he didn't play well the 36 games he was here, I would be much more confident with him as our 3rd PG than Curry. He's had a decent career, and he even finished out the end of last season on a good note. It's much less risky to have an established player in that 3rd PG role than an unknown commodity.

I have no problem with Curry in the 4th PG role. Absolutely no problem. If he ends up being good enough to be a 3rd PG, great! Now we have two PGs who can fill the 3rd PG role, but a team going into the playoffs should not run the risk of not having a serviceable 3rd PG because you're hoping an unknown commodity pans out. It's just not smart GMing.

Now if you're a team that's not serious about competing for the playoffs, that's a different story. It seems like some of you are still stuck with the mindset that we're not competing for a playoff spot next year. I know it's been awhile, Kings fans, but it's about time we change that mindset and rethink what our goals are.

You seriously are going to say it's bad "GMing" because we aren't focused on our 3rd PG? Did you not just witness the off-season we've had?!? A 3rd string PG is not going to win us a championship, sorry, but nice try. The only thing I want my 3rd string pg to do is pass the ball inside to our seven-footers and hustle.

 

[206Fan]

GSW: You mean Curry, Livingston, and Igoudala?
SAS: You mean Parker, Mills, and McCallum?
OKC: You mean Westbrook, Augustin, and Payne?
LAC: You mean Paul, Rivers, Prignoni, Crawford, and Stephenson?
HOU: You mean Lawson, Beverley, and Harden?
DAL: You mean Williams, Harris, Barea, and Felton?
NOP: You mean Evans, Holiday, and Cole(not signed)
UTA: You mean Exum, Burks, and Burke?
PHX: You mean Bledsoe, Knight, and Goodwin?

By my count, there is only 1 team who don't have someone who can fill in and play the role of 3rd PG (Memphis). That's 1 out of the 10 (2 of the 11 if you include us) who will be competing for a playoff spot this year.

I have no idea why you're trying to relate what Iguodala and Harden do to what Gay and Casspi do. Iguodala and Harden can bring the ball up and run an offense effectively. Gay and Casspi are nowhere near that level.

I was talking strictly 3rd PG which a lot of those guys on your list are not. I actually did forget OKC drafted Payne and wasn't aware at all that the Clippers obtained Prignoni, so my mistake for my poor list, but my entire point was that most of the 3rd PGs aren't going to be heavily relied on. Teams don't have a lot of good 3rd PGs which is why a lot of those names on you list aren't PGs.

Let's not pretend Gay can't bring up the ball effectively like Harden or Iggy can. Is he a playmaker to their degree? No. Is he capable of running plays like them? Yes. But I wouldn't call any of them PGs.

Our team has ball handlers in Rondo, Collison, Gay, Butler, and Casspi. All of those guys are capable in bringing the ball up and calling out plays. So if you really wanted to, based off of what your list looks like, our list could look like this:

Rondo, Collison, Gay, and Casspi

That doesn't look all that bad. Especially when you consider Belinelli can handle the ball a bit.

 

[twslam07]

You seriously are going to say it's bad "GMing" because we aren't focused on our 3rd PG? Did you not just witness the off-season we've had?!? A 3rd string PG is not going to win us a championship, sorry, but nice try. The only thing I want my 3rd string pg to do is pass the ball inside to our seven-footers and hustle.

It is bad GMing if your goal is playoffs. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise. Does that take away from all of the other great moves Vlade has made? No, it doesn't, but when you look at this situation in a vacuum, we should have an established 3rd PG.

 

[twslam07]

I was talking strictly 3rd PG which a lot of those guys on your list are not. I actually did forget OKC drafted Payne and wasn't aware at all that the Clippers obtained Prignoni, so my mistake for my poor list, but my entire point was that most of the 3rd PGs aren't going to be heavily relied on. Teams don't have a lot of good 3rd PGs which is why a lot of those names on you list aren't PGs.

You're missing the point. It's not about actually having a 3rd player who primarily plays PG. It's about having 3 players who can play that role on your team. As I pointed out, only 1 of the 10 teams that will be competing for a playoff spot this year do not fill that requirement.

The reason I've been clamoring for a PG specifically is because we don't have any SGs or SFs who can effectively run the point. SGs or SFs who can run the point usually are pretty versatile players and will cost more than a veteran minimum or room exception which is all we can offer. This is why I've been recommending a PG for this spot. If we had a Tyreke at SG, I would think an established 3rd PG is not a necessity. However, we don't have that type of luxury.

Let's not pretend Gay can't bring up the ball effectively like Harden or Iggy can.Is he a playmaker to their degree? No. Is he capable of running plays like them? Yes. But I wouldn't call any of them PGs.

What? You're joking right? You do notice that Gay often has a very loose handle due to him keeping the ball high. He's nowhere near Harden and Iguodala's level. You're delusional if you think otherwsie.

Our team has ball handlers in Rondo, Collison, Gay, Butler, and Casspi. All of those guys are capable in bringing the ball up and calling out plays. So if you really wanted to, based off of what your list looks like, our list could look like this:

Rondo, Collison, Gay, and Casspi

That doesn't look all that bad. Especially when you consider Belinelli can handle the ball a bit.

Does this team have ball handlers? Yes, does this team have enough players who can bring the ball up and run the offense effectively? No. I would cringe at that day we see Gay, Casspi, or Butler trying to run this team like a PG.

 

[Noble]

I just think it's poor taste to say it's bad GMing when we still have the ability to trade mid season if Curry/Stockton provides no answers initially. At this point in the season I would want to see how the youth develops in TC and preseason. If we start to show the need for a solid vet to round out the team on the last stretch of the season, so be it, we did it last year with Sessions/Miller. In fact, Miller could be on call later in the year anyway if he still hasn't signed, I feel like the interest is mutual and maybe Miller sits and rests his body for half the year and we come calling when we want to make our run. IMO I would want to see if we could tap into anything with the younger players on this roster at the guard position.

 

[twslam07]

I just think it's poor taste to say it's bad GMing when we still have the ability to trade mid season if Curry/Stockton provides no answers initially. At this point in the season I would want to see how the youth develops in TC and preseason. If we start to show the need for a solid vet to round out the team on the last stretch of the season, so be it, we did it last year with Sessions/Miller. In fact, Miller could be on call later in the year anyway if he still hasn't signed, I feel like the interest is mutual and maybe Miller sits and rests his body for half the year and we come calling when we want to make our run. IMO I would want to see if we could tap into anything with the younger players on this roster at the guard position.

We better hope he can bring aboard this established 3rd PG quickly during the season if that's the case. The Western Conference is extremely tough and it always seems to come down to a game or two when trying to grab that 8th seed. I'd hate to sit around negotiating, making calls, giving out physicals, etc. while our team is lacking the PG we need. It would be a bummer if we miss the playoffs by a game knowing we went 3-5 games without an NBA caliber backup PG.

 

[Bricklayer]

Should note that:

1) we are unusual in that we have TWO starting quality PGs. If Rondo is not in permanent decline, two solid starting PGs in fact, not Jameer Nelson well, I guess we can still throw him out there if we have nothing else types. So we have a bonus there in that if our starter gets hurt, the guy who takes his place is more than just a backup trying to step up, he's another starter. Barring real catastrophe with both starting quality guys out, our starting PG position should be stable all season long because of it. The potential hole that can open up is off the bench. We all saw how completely rudderless the bench was last year before Miller arrived.

2) Belinelli is being underestimated a little bit as a ballhandler. he has played a little PG over his career. He's a good passer and smart player. Now for that reason we may start him at SG. But if at some point in the season we lose one of our starting quality PGs for a lengthy span, he might be a key guy in trying to weather that storm because he'll be able to help whoever the backup PG becomes run the team. And with other vets like Koufos and Butler around who just know how to play, maybe we can avoid the deer in headlights look this time.

The simplest answer of course is simply to never have Rondo or Collison miss any time at all. In fact I would be perfectly happy never getting a chance to find out if Curry can hack it or not this season, outside of garbage minutes.

 

[rainmaker]

So we actually aren't that far away from everyone else... And if you want to bring up certain team's ball handlers like Iggy and Harden..we have a few too..in Rudy and Casspi.

We're putting a lot of stock in a 3rd guard. I think our team has enough vets and ball handling that even if we did need to depend on Curry, we'll still be ok.

Since when do Rudy and Omri have anywhere near the handle Iggy and Harden do?

 

[NewArena]

I just need for Karl to use Cousins the way Malone did

get his butt in the paint and DEEP, please. Early and often. With Karl, he started taking a ton of mid range J's and he was a lot more inefficient
as a result