One AND ONLY Cousins trade rumors thread
- Thread starter Albatros
- Start date
- Status
DeMarcus Cousins still needs to learn to channel his emotions properly on the court, needs to learn to be a better leader, needs to cut down on his turnovers, raise his shooting percentage and cut down on his complaining to the referees. He's not a perfect player. But he's far and away the most talented player on the Kings, the best center in the league and NOT the reason this team has failed to make the playoffs.
Over the last two seasons the Kings have gone 6-29 with Cousins out of the lineup. 6-30 if you want to count the Houston game last season where he only played 9 minutes before getting injured.
In fact part of D'Alessandro's rationale for firing Malone was that the Kings were "Philadelphia bad" without Cousins. I saw it the other way - if the team is THAT bad when Cousins goes out then I just don't think there's enough talent on the team which is really a strike against the GM. Under Malone the Kings jumped out to a 9-6 start during the most difficult stretch of their schedule while playing an tough, smashmouth and sustainable style and once Boogie got viral meningitis everything completely fell apart.
Cousin's has a lot of room for growth as a player. But he's an all-star, a second team All-NBA player, the most talented center in the NBA IMO and is still a couple years from entering his prime. He's NOT what's wrong with the Kings. Rather, it's what's wrong with the Kings that keeps people from understanding what a talent they are watching in DMC.
Over the last two seasons the Kings have gone 6-29 with Cousins out of the lineup. 6-30 if you want to count the Houston game last season where he only played 9 minutes before getting injured.
In fact part of D'Alessandro's rationale for firing Malone was that the Kings were "Philadelphia bad" without Cousins. I saw it the other way - if the team is THAT bad when Cousins goes out then I just don't think there's enough talent on the team which is really a strike against the GM. Under Malone the Kings jumped out to a 9-6 start during the most difficult stretch of their schedule while playing an tough, smashmouth and sustainable style and once Boogie got viral meningitis everything completely fell apart.
Cousin's has a lot of room for growth as a player. But he's an all-star, a second team All-NBA player, the most talented center in the NBA IMO and is still a couple years from entering his prime. He's NOT what's wrong with the Kings. Rather, it's what's wrong with the Kings that keeps people from understanding what a talent they are watching in DMC.
Last edited:
I know..you love to use statistics to try to prove your point. But you know what? You don't like George Karl and I could show you the same type of stats to prove that he's a HOF coach that we should never get rid of. Why do you throw George Karl's stats out but use DMC's? They are both the same to me....great stats but mostly empty because Cuz can't win 30 games and George can't get out of the 1st round.
The point I'm trying to make is that the Kings don't have the luxury to literally wait until the season starts to see for themselves whether Cousins buys in or not. They have to come to a determination on Cousins before the season starts; otherwise there could be a nightmare scenario of an unhappy Cuz leading into the mid-season trade deadline.
So Brick let me ask you this- Compared to Kevin Love season last year (25, was hurt at 24), Love is a better player by box score numbers and much much MUCH better by advanced stats- is Love better than Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan?
On one post you talk about PER as a testament of Cousins's greatness and than you say he is somewhat better than AD.
Cousins best season ever in PER is 26.12 (2013-14), this year he went 25.29.
Anthony Davis at age 20 put up a PER of 26.54 (better than Cousins's best) and this year went 30.89 (11th all time best PER season).
By the way- Love was close to 25 with 24.39 at age 22, was 25.41 at age 23 and with 26.97 scored higher than Cousins ever did at age 25.
On one post you talk about PER as a testament of Cousins's greatness and than you say he is somewhat better than AD.
Cousins best season ever in PER is 26.12 (2013-14), this year he went 25.29.
Anthony Davis at age 20 put up a PER of 26.54 (better than Cousins's best) and this year went 30.89 (11th all time best PER season).
By the way- Love was close to 25 with 24.39 at age 22, was 25.41 at age 23 and with 26.97 scored higher than Cousins ever did at age 25.
Better late to the party then not showing at all. 
Unfortunately and almost suspiciously that exchange, which had everybody here briefly happy, was almost immediately followed by Woj playing irritant/spoilsport again and bringing everybody down with reports we were talking to the Lakers about Cuz. It feels like some vast battle out there ebbing and flowing. I'm just hoping Vlade truly is the Vladfather and can stand in the eye of the hurricane unconcernedly clipping his toenails, and do exactly what he wants to do himself with no reference to any of the pressure being applied.
Unfortunately and almost suspiciously that exchange, which had everybody here briefly happy, was almost immediately followed by Woj playing irritant/spoilsport again and bringing everybody down with reports we were talking to the Lakers about Cuz. It feels like some vast battle out there ebbing and flowing. I'm just hoping Vlade truly is the Vladfather and can stand in the eye of the hurricane unconcernedly clipping his toenails, and do exactly what he wants to do himself with no reference to any of the pressure being applied.
Having already put myself out there as someone who doesn't like Cousins, I feel like I have to also say this about George Karl: Karl is a great regular season coach. His regular season winning percentage is .596. His playoff winning percentage is .432. He's never gotten out of the first round without a Hall of Fame talent. Never.
As I've said before, I have no particular affinity for Cousins, but I'll be damned if I'm going to sign off on throwing him over the side for Mister First-Round-and-Out. Cousins is a guy who might not get you to the playoffs, but also might get you to a championship. Karl is a guy who will get you to the playoffs, but won't do squat, once he gets there. All things being equal, I'll take the guy with the higher ceiling.
As I've said before, I have no particular affinity for Cousins, but I'll be damned if I'm going to sign off on throwing him over the side for Mister First-Round-and-Out. Cousins is a guy who might not get you to the playoffs, but also might get you to a championship. Karl is a guy who will get you to the playoffs, but won't do squat, once he gets there. All things being equal, I'll take the guy with the higher ceiling.
Hey Bricklayer! I was smiling as the alert came in that someone had responded to this post, I took a guess who it was and indeed was correct. I definitely know your feelings on this debate, actually you took it much easier on me than I was guessing, I appreciate that.
Here is my whole argument on this topic. I totally agree that Cousins is a unique and very high level talent. He can do things other players can't and impacts the game to a huge extent, look at how this team performed with him on the court compared to when he wasn't. If I had to make a list that tallied his strengths and weaknesses as a basketball player alone, the strengths would take forever to write and I'm trying to think of a single weakness which is difficult, maybe decision making and turnovers, but that's not too bad.
However the downside is a huge one and that is simply his horrible and childish attitude and the way he treats his teammates. We talk about great players making other players better, in my opinion Cousins actually makes them worse. Sure there isn't a long list of good players that have played with him, but why does just about every player who comes here underachieve? Great leaders cause these average players to overachieve, players come here and actually get worse until they leave. What about on the court? When things get tough he throws fits which really brings the whole team down, leaders not only put the team on their backs, but they are happy to do it, they want to do it, they make sure you know that you can rely on them. Even arrogant leaders like Jordan and Bryant made their teammates better because you knew they would never melt down, in fact they got better as things got tougher and that inspires players.
When it comes to talent you can put Cousins on any list you want, put him with Tim Duncan, no problem. However when it comes to leadership, teamwork, and winning they are nothing alike. I really believe that if you took this exact same roster and put it with those other all-time greats you have mentioned that we would have more wins than we do now, perhaps many more. In fact, you mentioned Anthony Davis, I think we win more games right now with him than with Cousins. The team will play harder and better with Davis than Cousins. I question whether Cousins will ever be able to win as long as his attitude is this way, that's my issue.
Here is my whole argument on this topic. I totally agree that Cousins is a unique and very high level talent. He can do things other players can't and impacts the game to a huge extent, look at how this team performed with him on the court compared to when he wasn't. If I had to make a list that tallied his strengths and weaknesses as a basketball player alone, the strengths would take forever to write and I'm trying to think of a single weakness which is difficult, maybe decision making and turnovers, but that's not too bad.
However the downside is a huge one and that is simply his horrible and childish attitude and the way he treats his teammates. We talk about great players making other players better, in my opinion Cousins actually makes them worse. Sure there isn't a long list of good players that have played with him, but why does just about every player who comes here underachieve? Great leaders cause these average players to overachieve, players come here and actually get worse until they leave. What about on the court? When things get tough he throws fits which really brings the whole team down, leaders not only put the team on their backs, but they are happy to do it, they want to do it, they make sure you know that you can rely on them. Even arrogant leaders like Jordan and Bryant made their teammates better because you knew they would never melt down, in fact they got better as things got tougher and that inspires players.
When it comes to talent you can put Cousins on any list you want, put him with Tim Duncan, no problem. However when it comes to leadership, teamwork, and winning they are nothing alike. I really believe that if you took this exact same roster and put it with those other all-time greats you have mentioned that we would have more wins than we do now, perhaps many more. In fact, you mentioned Anthony Davis, I think we win more games right now with him than with Cousins. The team will play harder and better with Davis than Cousins. I question whether Cousins will ever be able to win as long as his attitude is this way, that's my issue.
Yes I understood, what you are trying to tell me.
I just don't see this as such a huge problem. What do you expect? Cousins giving no effort at all or Cousins acting like crazy on the floor and towards the Ref's, dropping his market value on purpose?
I don't think this will happen.
I just don't see this as such a huge problem. What do you expect? Cousins giving no effort at all or Cousins acting like crazy on the floor and towards the Ref's, dropping his market value on purpose?
I don't think this will happen.
If Vlade and Vivek come out and say they are going to trade Cuz, then I think it instantly drives down his value. Vlade and Vivek holding firm and playing hardball with teams by saying they don't want to trade him, all that can do is force teams that really want him to give that "Godfather" deal. Now I believe that they don't want to deal him but if a team throws down that one offer that can't be turned down...well, this is the only way it's going to happen.
That is not lying to anyone, that is doing what's best for the franchise .....it's high stakes poker.
That is not lying to anyone, that is doing what's best for the franchise .....it's high stakes poker.
Hey Bricklayer! I was smiling as the alert came in that someone had responded to this post, I took a guess who it was and indeed was correct. I definitely know your feelings on this debate, actually you took it much easier on me than I was guessing, I appreciate that.
Here is my whole argument on this topic. I totally agree that Cousins is a unique and very high level talent. He can do things other players can't and impacts the game to a huge extent, look at how this team performed with him on the court compared to when he wasn't. If I had to make a list that tallied his strengths and weaknesses as a basketball player alone, the strengths would take forever to write and I'm trying to think of a single weakness which is difficult, maybe decision making and turnovers, but that's not too bad.
However the downside is a huge one and that is simply his horrible and childish attitude and the way he treats his teammates. We talk about great players making other players better, in my opinion Cousins actually makes them worse. Sure there isn't a long list of good players that have played with him, but why does just about every player who comes here underachieve? Great leaders cause these average players to overachieve, players come here and actually get worse until they leave. What about on the court? When things get tough he throws fits which really brings the whole team down, leaders not only put the team on their backs, but they are happy to do it, they want to do it, they make sure you know that you can rely on them. Even arrogant leaders like Jordan and Bryant made their teammates better because you knew they would never melt down, in fact they got better as things got tougher and that inspires players.
When it comes to talent you can put Cousins on any list you want, put him with Tim Duncan, no problem. However when it comes to leadership, teamwork, and winning they are nothing alike. I really believe that if you took this exact same roster and put it with those other all-time greats you have mentioned that we would have more wins than we do now, perhaps many more. In fact, you mentioned Anthony Davis, I think we win more games right now with him than with Cousins. The team will play harder and better with Davis than Cousins. I question whether Cousins will ever be able to win as long as his attitude is this way, that's my issue.
Here is my whole argument on this topic. I totally agree that Cousins is a unique and very high level talent. He can do things other players can't and impacts the game to a huge extent, look at how this team performed with him on the court compared to when he wasn't. If I had to make a list that tallied his strengths and weaknesses as a basketball player alone, the strengths would take forever to write and I'm trying to think of a single weakness which is difficult, maybe decision making and turnovers, but that's not too bad.
However the downside is a huge one and that is simply his horrible and childish attitude and the way he treats his teammates. We talk about great players making other players better, in my opinion Cousins actually makes them worse. Sure there isn't a long list of good players that have played with him, but why does just about every player who comes here underachieve? Great leaders cause these average players to overachieve, players come here and actually get worse until they leave. What about on the court? When things get tough he throws fits which really brings the whole team down, leaders not only put the team on their backs, but they are happy to do it, they want to do it, they make sure you know that you can rely on them. Even arrogant leaders like Jordan and Bryant made their teammates better because you knew they would never melt down, in fact they got better as things got tougher and that inspires players.
When it comes to talent you can put Cousins on any list you want, put him with Tim Duncan, no problem. However when it comes to leadership, teamwork, and winning they are nothing alike. I really believe that if you took this exact same roster and put it with those other all-time greats you have mentioned that we would have more wins than we do now, perhaps many more. In fact, you mentioned Anthony Davis, I think we win more games right now with him than with Cousins. The team will play harder and better with Davis than Cousins. I question whether Cousins will ever be able to win as long as his attitude is this way, that's my issue.
beyond "the facts of the case," demarcus cousins shoulders an immense amount of responsibility for this pathetic, fledgling excuse of an nba franchise. he must be the face of the kings. he must be the visible passion of the team. he must be the good citizen of the community. he must be the roster's primary scorer. he must be the hub of the entire offense. he must be the leading rebounder. and he must be the defensive anchor. through all of the ownership turnover, coaching staff turnover, front office turnover, player turnover, management mishaps, complete f***-ups, and firings, demarcus has been there, improving every season, becoming the player we all hoped he would become on draft day. yet so many kings fans are dissatisfied with cousins' performance, of all things? sure, a 24-year-old superstar still has plenty of room to grow, but so many of you want to heap unreasonable amounts of weight onto his shoulders, as if he's not already playing atlas for a franchise that simply doesn't deserve the loyalty that he has ceaselessly reinforced at every stage of his career thus far. if kings fans bleed purple, then color me embarrassed...
here's some more kindling for the fire: we also need to factor in the physical beating that demarcus takes on a nightly basis, and the media lashings he's subjected to on a weekly basis, and the inability of this franchise to put even a half-way decent roster around him in five seasons. then there's the ill-timed bout of viral meningitis that would knock any nba player on his ass, the one that demarcus actually blamed himself for, claiming that malone wouldn't have been fired and the team's momentum wouldn't have been halted if he didn't get sick (a clear sign of leadership in a moment of franchise disarray, if ya ask me). but big cuz is still expected to put on a smile, act like a boy scout, and be some kind of inspirational leader for a team whose roster and coaching staff and front office seems to change shape dramatically with nothing more than a shift in the wind. jesus f***ing christ, sometimes i wonder what you all are looking at when you watch kings basketball. i'm among those who think demarcus cousins has the potential to become a future hall of famer, but even i know when to put a few limits on boogie's ceiling...
f*** me, i have difficulty describing how frustrated i get sometimes by the kind of talk i hear around sacramento regarding big cuz, a player who's done more for this team and this city than any since the golden era of kings basketball. NEWS FLASH, kings fans: leadership should not be the sole responsibility of demarcus cousins. he's already done his part, for f***'s sake. he's putting up legendary performances. he's become one of the best defensive bigs in the nba. he's doubled down on top of his doubling down of loyalty to this franchise repeatedly. where is the rest of this franchise's loyalty directed? where is the rest of this franchise's leadership coming from? rudy gay's too reserved in his demeanor for that responsibility. darren collison's not up to the challenge. andre miller's got one foot in the retirement home. you think maybe the kings might consider putting a few veterans around demarcus who can shoulder just a teensy-weensy bit of the leadership responsibility, so he doesn't have to confess that he is, in fact, superman in order to appease kings fans? you think maybe the kings might consider hiring a head coach who sets a proper example of leadership for his team, rather than one with a history of driving wedges between his players?
i've said it so many times before and i'll say it once again: anyone who looks at the totality of the operation of this franchise across the last half-decade and determines that boogie cousins is the problem is an absolute fool. leadership of this franchise should fall to vivek ranadive, who must take responsibility for this mess. leadership should fall to george karl, who is a grown ass man with a penchant for adolescent drama. leadership should fall to vlade divac, who appears to be the only one among the new regime capable of such a role. and for those suffering short term memory loss, demarcus cousins himself looked very much like the leader we have all wanted him to be at the start of the season, before his team was sabotaged from within by a petulant front office that couldn't lead a horse to water if they were standing in the middle of an oasis. yes, cousins still needs to find a way to be an effective leader despite the miles-high pile of bullsh** he's had to deal with, but if kings fans can't comprehend the scale of his contribution and commitment to this team and this town, flaws and all, then kings fans probably don't deserve a winning team...
- Status