Ongoing draft/lottery discussion [OPEN SPOILERS]
- Thread starter hrdboild
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fair enough, don't agree though, Ben will always be limited by his atrocious handle, he's also currently only a marginally better defender than Nik IMO, ok Ben keeps his man infront of him sometimes but what good comes from that is completely undone by the fact he simply cannot defend the three to save his life.
he's lit up by absolute scrubs (and stars obviously)
he's lit up by absolute scrubs (and stars obviously)
You either haven't watched any games this past season or knowingly post BS to make Sauce look good.
You can go watch highlights to find out, that Ben's handle is no longer atrocious.
Lol at marginally better defender, when Stauskas was often chased off the floor by the benchers relentlessly attacking him. Only later in the season, when Kings no longer cared about the results, coaches started to leave him on the floor regardless.
Basketball is a team sport on both ends, so when coach asks a player to drop closer to the basket to crowd the paint, but the guy he's guarding somehow refuses to cooperate and stays on the arc, it stands to reason, that open 3 might be available to the opposition. Good teams neutralize those by rotating, rather than initial defender frantically flying all over the court to close out.
You can go watch highlights to find out, that Ben's handle is no longer atrocious.
Lol at marginally better defender, when Stauskas was often chased off the floor by the benchers relentlessly attacking him. Only later in the season, when Kings no longer cared about the results, coaches started to leave him on the floor regardless.
Basketball is a team sport on both ends, so when coach asks a player to drop closer to the basket to crowd the paint, but the guy he's guarding somehow refuses to cooperate and stays on the arc, it stands to reason, that open 3 might be available to the opposition. Good teams neutralize those by rotating, rather than initial defender frantically flying all over the court to close out.
You, my friend have been paying attention. People are failing to take into consideration the actual defensive scheme and how that plays into the game itself. Simply looking at the box score and taking that as a sign that our SG is not playing good defense is faulty reasoning. As is how many open 3s the opposing SG was getting at the end of the season. Karl's scheme was to have the perimeter defenders actually drop into the paint. Then when the ball gets kicked out the the arc, there is a mad scramble to recover to close out on the shooter. THIS is why there were so many open three attempts by the teams we played and it was our downfall many times. Karl also asked our back court to play passing lanes, rather than their man straight up. This is why Ben's steals went up, but his on the ball defense appeared to go down. Ben was playing catch up to get in position to defend because of our defensive scheme and it made him look out of position, when it was actually a function of the style we were playing. Ben did not have this issue at the beginning of the season.
I think both Ben and Nik will turn out to be rotation players in the NBA, IN TIME. The question becomes do the Kings want to wait and see them develop? IMO they should wait and in the meantime bring in a Veteran on a one year deal with a player option for the second year. I think a quality Vet would like this deal because he would have the opportunity to be a free agent in 2016 or 2017 depending on how things go. Said veteran player can cash in on the increased salary cap in those years at his choosing.
As for the draft I want WCS like a lot of Fans. If WCS is not there then Vlade will make the best move he can. He can take the best player available or trade the pick. If he drafts a SG then one of Ben or Nik probably has to go in a trade.
IMO the Kings need three players. A Big who can play the 4/5 spots and possibly start. This player has to be able to defend the best Big on the other team. A veteran Guard who can defend the best wing player on the other team. The third player I want to be a Sixth man type who can score when Boogie is on the bench. Whether the Sixth man is of the Corliss Williamson type or more like Manu Ginobilli does not matter to me. But he needs to be a threat to score 20.
As for the draft I want WCS like a lot of Fans. If WCS is not there then Vlade will make the best move he can. He can take the best player available or trade the pick. If he drafts a SG then one of Ben or Nik probably has to go in a trade.
IMO the Kings need three players. A Big who can play the 4/5 spots and possibly start. This player has to be able to defend the best Big on the other team. A veteran Guard who can defend the best wing player on the other team. The third player I want to be a Sixth man type who can score when Boogie is on the bench. Whether the Sixth man is of the Corliss Williamson type or more like Manu Ginobilli does not matter to me. But he needs to be a threat to score 20.
I will say this about Ben and Nik, Ben has shown more but in WAY more minutes over two season averaging 27 mpg as a rookie and 33 mpg last season. Nik had a terrible rookie season, but his limitations mainly spurred from not being strong enough physically, he just couldn't stay on the floor. Offensively he was what we drafted besides the 3pt shooting( good handle for SG, good decision maker). His bad shooting was clearly confidence, he did improve under Karl and in the last month of the season put up very good shooting numbers. I don't know if either can ever be a long term starter, but I see less holes in Nik's game. If he adds strength and gets minutes, he can be a good NBA player. I'm also convinced he would have fared better if he had the same minutes as Ben over two seasons.
Just saw Karl speak to the media on Periscope via Jason Jones(next big social media medium).
Key points
* His biggest need is defense, rim protector and wing defender. Followed by playmaker/ good decision maker, third is shooting.
*He doesnt see anybody at 6 being able to play 30 or more minutes for the team next season.
* He would be very happy if they can get two vets for the 6, very much prefers that option.
Lawson and Chandler for the 6, Landry, Stauskas or Ben? Ive been saying it for a while. Sign Koufos.
Lawson/Collison/Ray
Chandler/Ben or Nik
Gay/Casspi
Koufos/Moreland
DMC/JT
That is a veteran starting 5, no kids that are a mystery every night. A good bench unit in DC, Ben, Casspi, JT(and one of the starters.) A legit 9 man rotation.
Key points
* His biggest need is defense, rim protector and wing defender. Followed by playmaker/ good decision maker, third is shooting.
*He doesnt see anybody at 6 being able to play 30 or more minutes for the team next season.
* He would be very happy if they can get two vets for the 6, very much prefers that option.
Lawson and Chandler for the 6, Landry, Stauskas or Ben? Ive been saying it for a while. Sign Koufos.
Lawson/Collison/Ray
Chandler/Ben or Nik
Gay/Casspi
Koufos/Moreland
DMC/JT
That is a veteran starting 5, no kids that are a mystery every night. A good bench unit in DC, Ben, Casspi, JT(and one of the starters.) A legit 9 man rotation.
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Blake Ellington: Geroge Karl:” If we keep 6 we kind of know what we’re going to do. If we don’t keep 6 and we can turn it into 2 players that would be exciting”
Sure seems like there's something going on behind the scenes, for the first time in a long time. lol
Dream scenario ? Lawson and Faried.
Sure seems like there's something going on behind the scenes, for the first time in a long time. lol
Dream scenario ? Lawson and Faried.
There's no player in this draft, who can average 30 minutes for PO team. Well, hypothetically there are a few guys, that top5-7 teams could use that much and still stay in POs, but even elite talents are below average NBA players as rookies.
Of course, Karl would be happier with vets than a rookie - he will leave in 2-3 years, shouldn't care, what happens after that.
Chandler can't guard SGs - too slow after bulking up.
Moreland is a good 8th big right now.
And then Koufos or Cousins trying to guard perimeter, and on the other end two bigs just staying in the paint and inviting Boogie and Kosta to shoot - that wouldn't go smooth. It worked in Memphis, because ZBo is more mobile than Boogie on D and Marc loves to operate from high post without needing the paint. Most importantly it was against benchers.
Plus Kings won't have money for Koufos.
Even trade with Denver is illegal: Kings will need to send out all 3 non-guaranteed guys along with Landry, signed #6 and one of Nik/Ben, so Ray and Moreland are gone from your chart.
Of course, Karl would be happier with vets than a rookie - he will leave in 2-3 years, shouldn't care, what happens after that.
Chandler can't guard SGs - too slow after bulking up.
Moreland is a good 8th big right now.
And then Koufos or Cousins trying to guard perimeter, and on the other end two bigs just staying in the paint and inviting Boogie and Kosta to shoot - that wouldn't go smooth. It worked in Memphis, because ZBo is more mobile than Boogie on D and Marc loves to operate from high post without needing the paint. Most importantly it was against benchers.
Plus Kings won't have money for Koufos.
Even trade with Denver is illegal: Kings will need to send out all 3 non-guaranteed guys along with Landry, signed #6 and one of Nik/Ben, so Ray and Moreland are gone from your chart.
I guess I'm kinda comparing him to what he have to watch at the current time. Thompson is about my least favorite player in the league. 
I think if no trade is made, WCS is the best fit and I sincerely hope he's still available if the Kings stay pat with No. 6. Lawson doesn't seem to be getting the love around the league as Denver thought he would. Looks like it's crickets out there and the Kings are the only ones besides the Knicks to show any interest as of yet. Post draft and the more time that passes, the price of admission drops on Lawson, IMHO.
I think if no trade is made, WCS is the best fit and I sincerely hope he's still available if the Kings stay pat with No. 6. Lawson doesn't seem to be getting the love around the league as Denver thought he would. Looks like it's crickets out there and the Kings are the only ones besides the Knicks to show any interest as of yet. Post draft and the more time that passes, the price of admission drops on Lawson, IMHO.
Both our new GM/Prez and Coach are uncommonly Chatty Cathies with the media, and it makes you wonder why more aren't. They have also both been very consistent in what they have individually said. No more more leaks , he said, she said, sowing of confusion.
And Karl has been very consistent in what he's talked about since the end of the season. he and Vlade sound like they are on the same, rational page. The only thing new in his defense(wing defender, rim protector), creaters, shooters discussion this time is the specific mention of something Vlade just got done alluding to too: the possibility and Karl even said preference to get a COUPLE of vets back for the #6. To vet up. And in order to take back a couple of vets, that would by necessity involve some of our vet contracts, which I would hope meaning using Carl or possibly JT, but might also mean the young SGs.
And Karl has been very consistent in what he's talked about since the end of the season. he and Vlade sound like they are on the same, rational page. The only thing new in his defense(wing defender, rim protector), creaters, shooters discussion this time is the specific mention of something Vlade just got done alluding to too: the possibility and Karl even said preference to get a COUPLE of vets back for the #6. To vet up. And in order to take back a couple of vets, that would by necessity involve some of our vet contracts, which I would hope meaning using Carl or possibly JT, but might also mean the young SGs.
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I'm going to guess that if or when Denver lowers their price on the Lawson and/or Faried values, we may see them in Kings uniforms or if they make a deal there, then they have their guy lined up at 6. If they pick at 6, I would not be surprised to see Ben or Nik traded.....I've seen to many hints that Karl would like to run a double point guard system ......wants guys who can creat make plays and Ben doesn't quite fit that and Nik may not be good enough....isn't good enough right now.
And with him saying that he would like a defensive player that he can go sic on an opposing star, that does sound like a WCS. Probably why he's pissed at Mudiay for not coming in as he's a guy who does fit the creator profile.
And when Karl says that he's leaving it up to the guys who have watched the prospects as he's not up to speed on them as much as they are but if you want to talk NBA players.....I feel confidant that if we make a trade with that pick, he's going to get 2 vets who will help him run his system immediately. Has a clue on what he wants.
And with him saying that he would like a defensive player that he can go sic on an opposing star, that does sound like a WCS. Probably why he's pissed at Mudiay for not coming in as he's a guy who does fit the creator profile.
And when Karl says that he's leaving it up to the guys who have watched the prospects as he's not up to speed on them as much as they are but if you want to talk NBA players.....I feel confidant that if we make a trade with that pick, he's going to get 2 vets who will help him run his system immediately. Has a clue on what he wants.
I think people underestimate/overlook the effect of a full training camp under Karl will make, with hopefully no more distractions. We have a hall of fame coach, a top 10 player, we just need better pieces around them. If Cousins and Karl get on the right page, theres no reason we cannot pickup where we left off pre Viral Meningitis.
Divac on the draft:
To me it appears as though Vlade is looking at boosting our offense in the draft. Id say Hezonja is looking more and more likely if we keep the pick
" I would love to do something, a smaller move, before the draft. We have a lot of changes to make. The league is much more up-tempo now, and we need more three-point shooting. If we don’t get that in the draft, we’ll be active in free agency and see about making trades later in the offseason.
“We know our coach and the pieces he needs. And I really believe we are going to be a totally different team next season, with different energy. Our goal next year is not only to have a winning season, but a playoff season. This draft is important, but it’s only the beginning.”
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/vlade...ns-that-is-not-happening/#eKGMI9FxSEztWCyT.99
To me it appears as though Vlade is looking at boosting our offense in the draft. Id say Hezonja is looking more and more likely if we keep the pick
" I would love to do something, a smaller move, before the draft. We have a lot of changes to make. The league is much more up-tempo now, and we need more three-point shooting. If we don’t get that in the draft, we’ll be active in free agency and see about making trades later in the offseason.
“We know our coach and the pieces he needs. And I really believe we are going to be a totally different team next season, with different energy. Our goal next year is not only to have a winning season, but a playoff season. This draft is important, but it’s only the beginning.”
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/vlade...ns-that-is-not-happening/#eKGMI9FxSEztWCyT.99
We're in the right spot for it. People want to say we're a young team, but we're not. At least without this draft pick. Our 3 best players are all in their prime 25-30 years. And we lack the encessary assets to plug all our other holes...UNLESS we actually do manage to finagle our way into "several" solid pieces using only our 1 pick and spare contracts. if we can patch 2 or more holes with 1 pick, we might just be able to patch enough holes to make a solid veteran roster run at things next year. Everything depends on the deal of course.
In the deal that you mentioned here.....I think I can live with it as long as Collison is not involved......and then would be up to the FO to sign the critical pieces to the bench....backup big, wing, defensive stopper.
I don't think this is going to happen fwiw....but if your trade happened and with Collison involved, that would be bad.
I don't think this is going to happen fwiw....but if your trade happened and with Collison involved, that would be bad.
Not necessarily true. Collison was a top backup as recently as 2 years ago before we picked him up. And he excelled during that time at running at SG next to CP3. Especially when you are basically talking about trading the #6, which a PG hungry team could go ahead and turn into Mudiay etc. if they wanted.