Play to win or keep our pick?

[Chubbs]

Well, for those of you leaning towards tank mode, tonight's game will actually have some meaning. A loss to the Jazz gives the Kings a lower winning percentage and thus moves them into the 6th worst record. Two more games with the Jazz to cement that. Only one with Orlando, but if they have a dead coach bounce and put a streak together they could easily let the Kings tank their way to the 5th worst record. I don't think they have a shot at catching the Lakers, Sixers, Timberwolves or Knicks.

A 30% chance of a top 3 pick and a 59% chance of the 5th or 6th pick. That puts a lot of talented kids in play.

Frustrating that it's come to this. Hoping for salvation from the 8th coach in 9 seasons or the zillionth lottery pick in Sacramento history.

I can envision a scenario where they "catch" the lakers.

Just keep Corbin as coach. Wouldn't even be that hard.

Lakers have lots of young guys, most even still trying and playing for something. We have vets that aren't trying combined with youth that has no idea how to play. The Kings wish they had a guy like Ryan Kelly that could drop twenty. Our youth just isn't any good or productive (nik, Ray, etc). And Moreland is hurt.

What's the Jerry line, effort beats talent when talent doesn't try? We are seeing that nightly. Not that the Kings are supremely talented, but they aren't this bad. They just aren't. Boogie alone separates the Kings from the other cellar dwellers.

The guy who should be playing balls out is Dwill, and he doesn't seem to realize his days in the NBA are winding down, and it doesn't even appear he cares one bit one way or the other. He can go to China and drop 59 in the all star game like Michael Beasley. That seems to be the path he is on.

 

[hrdboild]

Being a fan of a sports team isn't rational, its a crazy thing people do because it's enjoyable to feel like you're part of a shared experience. Managing a sports team should be the exact opposite. If you care too much you make poor decisions.

Right after Malone was fired I thought management needed to send a message to the players that they weren't giving up. In that context I thought hiring George Karl right away was a good idea. I don't think he's a perfect coach for us, but after so many lost seasons we needed confident and decisive action. And at that point we still had a chance at the playoffs.

At this point, I'm more nervous about Karl than anything. I think he might be a good coach for us, but I also don't think we have enough talent to win right now and don't see a lot of options for getting better. If Karl isn't the answer, we're hosed.

I'm not against the idea of hiring a new coach right now. If it's Nate McMillan or (theoretically) Tom Thibodeau I say do it. Anyone else I say we hedge our bets, keep the pick (for gods sake don't trade it for a 29 year old on a 2 year deal) and if the next coach doesn't work out, at least we have one more asset to work with going forward. That player could be the difference between another streak of George Karl first round playoff losses and an actual contender.

 

[TheJewishKing]

It seems like we might find ourselves a new coach soon enough, maybe a decent coach who can actually fulfill the coaching spot and lead the Kings to some victories.
Kings showed earlier the season that when being healthy and being coached under a very decent coach like Michael Malone we can achieve some goals and get ourselves some W's.

I think that under a proper coach with a major name in this league our squad can reach some impressive results in the end, maybe won't be able to make it to the playoffs in the remaining games, but I'm sure that playing good basketball will give this team a much needed confidence boost for the next season.

The way I see it, the team has the talent to make it to the playoffs in the western conference, all we need now is to make sure that the message has been transferred to the Kings management and to hope that they will be able to assign a proper coach with experience and a decent scheme that can fit the team, if our players will feel satisfied under their coach we can go a long way....

 

[Mike]

We've got 34 games left this season. Obviously we'd love to see our Kings win a lot of them even if a play off spot is way beyond us, because going on a run like 20-14 or 24-10 would show the team is ready to compete for the play offs under the right coaching staff.

However, I can see the benefit of competing but not doing too much to ensure we keep our draft pick. As positive as going .500 or better is, it won't get us into the play offs and will end up losing us a draft pick. In the 6-10 range we could land a talented PF like Myles Turner, or if we get lucky and land a top five pick, then there's quite a few players who would be nice additions. Currently we still need to improve at PF, and while our guards have been fairly productive, one could debate whether or not they are the long term starters we need at their respective positions. So a top ten pick (or better) could be useful with the players potentially available.

Which route do I prefer?

I'd like to say go on a run under a new head coach, and even though we'll lose the draft pick, but I feel we could benefit from keeping out draft pick and starting afresh under a new head coach in the summer.

 

[VF21]

Being a fan of a sports team isn't rational, its a crazy thing people do because it's enjoyable to feel like you're part of a shared experience. Managing a sports team should be the exact opposite. If you care too much you make poor decisions.

Right after Malone was fired I thought management needed to send a message to the players that they weren't giving up. In that context I thought hiring George Karl right away was a good idea. I don't think he's a perfect coach for us, but after so many lost seasons we needed confident and decisive action. And at that point we still had a chance at the playoffs.

At this point, I'm more nervous about Karl than anything. I think he might be a good coach for us, but I also don't think we have enough talent to win right now and don't see a lot of options for getting better. If Karl isn't the answer, we're hosed.

I'm not against the idea of hiring a new coach right now. If it's Nate McMillan or (theoretically) Tom Thibodeau I say do it. Anyone else I say we hedge our bets, keep the pick (for gods sake don't trade it for a 29 year old on a 2 year deal) and if the next coach doesn't work out, at least we have one more asset to work with going forward. That player could be the difference between another streak of George Karl first round playoff losses and an actual contender.

I think the biggest question is how the team will respond to being totally called out by their captain. Boogie put it all out there and tonight we'll see if the team supports him or not.

 

[Warhawk]

Being a fan of a sports team isn't rational, its a crazy thing people do because it's enjoyable to feel like you're part of a shared experience. Managing a sports team should be the exact opposite. If you care too much you make poor decisions.

Right after Malone was fired I thought management needed to send a message to the players that they weren't giving up. In that context I thought hiring George Karl right away was a good idea. I don't think he's a perfect coach for us, but after so many lost seasons we needed confident and decisive action. And at that point we still had a chance at the playoffs.

At this point, I'm more nervous about Karl than anything. I think he might be a good coach for us, but I also don't think we have enough talent to win right now and don't see a lot of options for getting better. If Karl isn't the answer, we're hosed.

I'm not against the idea of hiring a new coach right now. If it's Nate McMillan or (theoretically) Tom Thibodeau I say do it. Anyone else I say we hedge our bets, keep the pick (for gods sake don't trade it for a 29 year old on a 2 year deal) and if the next coach doesn't work out, at least we have one more asset to work with going forward. That player could be the difference between another streak of George Karl first round playoff losses and an actual contender.

I think you are getting way ahead of our situation. I'd be overjoyed right now looking at the first round of the playoffs instead of having players checking out before the All-Star game because we are so far down in the standings. You have to learn how to flipping walk before you worry about winning a gymnastics competition. If he can give us 3 good years and get this team into the playoffs I would consider this a success and worry what the next step would be at that point!

 

[hrdboild]

I think you are getting way ahead of our situation. I'd be overjoyed right now looking at the first round of the playoffs instead of having players checking out before the All-Star game because we are so far down in the standings. You have to learn how to flipping walk before you worry about winning a gymnastics competition. If he can give us 3 good years and get this team into the playoffs I would consider this a success and worry what the next step would be at that point!

All the more reason to keep the pick. The OKC Thunder are in danger of missing the playoffs at this point and I don't forsee the Western Conference getting substantially easier next year. We need all the talent we can get.

 

[Warhawk]

All the more reason to keep the pick. The OKC Thunder are in danger of missing the playoffs at this point and I don't forsee the Western Conference getting substantially easier next year. We need all the talent we can get.

With DMC being the biggest talent we have, and NOT worth pursuing another first round pick for. I feel that if we don't improve, and RAPIDLY, he might be gone.

 

[hrdboild]

Everyone seems to have bought into the same idea that somehow the choices of keeping our pick and keeping DeMarcus Cousins are mutually exclusive. He's under a 4 year contract, this weird obsession with 30 some odd games at the end of the season costing us our franchise player is absurd. If he were going to demand a trade, why hasn't he done it already? Whats going to change in 2 months? He can't force a trade anyway, he can just pout and I give DeMarcus a lot more credit than that as a person.

Sure he's unhappy now, he wants to win. That's the whole point. Don't you want a legit starting PF or a competent 3rd guard on the team? The draft is one of the very few ways available to us as a small market team with very little cap room to make that happen. I just think you're burying your head in the sand if you think that pick doesn't matter and how competitive we are in a few years when Cousins actually can pick a new team doesn't matter.

 

[VF21]

Revised response to poll:

Other. It doesn't matter what route you take if you don't know where the **** you're going.

 

[Warhawk]

Everyone seems to have bought into the same idea that somehow the choices of keeping our pick and keeping DeMarcus Cousins are mutually exclusive. He's under a 4 year contract, this weird obsession with 30 some odd games at the end of the season costing us our franchise player is absurd. If he were going to demand a trade, why hasn't he done it already? Whats going to change in 2 months? He can't force a trade anyway, he can just pout and I give DeMarcus a lot more credit than that as a person.

Sure he's unhappy now, he wants to win. That's the whole point. Don't you want a legit starting PF or a competent 3rd guard on the team? The draft is one of the very few ways available to us as a small market team with very little cap room to make that happen. I just think you're burying your head in the sand if you think that pick doesn't matter and how competitive we are in a few years when Cousins actually can pick a new team doesn't matter.

Want to bet?

Draft picks typically take a couple years to pan out. We don't have a couple years to wait. This team is imploding now. Not two+ years from now.

Nobody said the pick doesn't matter. What we are saying is that it is more important to have this team not imploding and possibly losing DMC. We also have to transfer that pick at some time, and until we do we can't use our first round picks in trades, etc., to help improve the team. Let's get out from under that and start moving forward with more ability to make trades and improve the team immediately.

 

[hrdboild]

It's clear we're just not going to see eye to eye on this. Players force trades by threatening to walk when their contract ends or simply refusing to play for their current team. Boogie is not anywhere close to the end of his contract and I think he has way too much pride to sit out games or dog it for any reason.

Also, the idea that our inability to trade future picks is handicapping our rebuild is a complete paper tiger. Who are we anywhere close to acquiring that a protected future pick is standing in the way of? The last one Petrie traded got us JJ freakin Hickson. How's that working out?

Draft picks often take 2+ years to develop. It's not a sure thing. Our front office doesn't know what they're doing anyway.

This is all speculation. I tend to agree, but I also don't see the point in advocating decisions borne out of fear. You're making it sound like having a top 10 pick is a bad thing. A young talent represents hope for the future. We have three very good veterans already. Ben is coming along. We absolutely need one more front line talent and it's an absolute fact that drafting in the top 10 or trading a top 10 pick is every teams best chance to add frontline talent. Deals for star level talent that involve future picks are comparatively rare and often involve said player promising to sign an extension with their new team. Hardly a given in our situation.

 

[funkykingston]

Sadly I'm slipping back into the old habit of watching college games and thinking about how guys would look on the Kings.

Could Okafor and Cousins play off each other well?
Would I rather have Towns or Turner at PF?
WCS would be an ideal fit next to Cuz but how high is his ceiling?
Is Russell a SG or PG at the next level?
I haven't seen Mudiay, does he have star potential?
Are Porzingas or Kaminsky worth a high pick as stretch 4's?
Could Grant or Jones supplant Collison as rookies?
I really like Johnson. Do you draft him even with Gay on the roster?

Lots of talent in this draft. If I had more confidence in D'Alessandro's talent evaluation skills or ability to work the draft (seriously, for all the talk about being aggressive for two straight drafts we've gone Petriesque, sitting around until our picks and doing nothing else - at least Geoff was good for a big trade or two around draft time) then I'd almost lean towards tanking the rest of this disaster of a season.

 

[Löwenherz]

Revised response to poll:

Other. It doesn't matter what route you take if you don't know where the **** you're going.

 

[206Fan]

Sadly I'm slipping back into the old habit of watching college games and thinking about how guys would look on the Kings.

Could Okafor and Cousins play off each other well?
Would I rather have Towns or Turner at PF?
WCS would be an ideal fit next to Cuz but how high is his ceiling?
Is Russell a SG or PG at the next level?
I haven't seen Mudiay, does he have star potential?
Are Porzingas or Kaminsky worth a high pick as stretch 4's?
Could Grant or Jones supplant Collison as rookies?
I really like Johnson. Do you draft him even with Gay on the roster?

Lots of talent in this draft. If I had more confidence in D'Alessandro's talent evaluation skills or ability to work the draft (seriously, for all the talk about being aggressive for two straight drafts we've gone Petriesque, sitting around until our picks and doing nothing else - at least Geoff was good for a big trade or two around draft time) then I'd almost lean towards tanking the rest of this disaster of a season.

I think Okafor and Cuz couldn't co-exist. They're way too similar in terms of everything.

I think Towns is still a little raw, but at the very least he might be able to come in and duplicate what Drummond did in his rookie year, but at a much higher level. I think he's a huge defensive anchor and is probably the best player in this drsft with the highest ceiling. He'd be great next to Cousins.

Turner is a player who's not as raw as Towns, but I'm not sure how he'd fit next to Cuz. I don't think he's worth drafting if we're drsfting in the top 10.

WCS is an interesting player. If we want to win now and find a great defensive player next to Cuz, it's WCS. Not only is he a shot blocker, but he's a rim protector. Think Bogut, but he can defend positions 2-5. He can guard guards and bigs. Great defensive player, but his offense is limited.

Russell is going to be a PG. He will fit right next to guys like Lillard and Irving. I think he's a better passer than them too coming of of college.

Mudiay is a better version of Tyreke

Porzingas is still raw, and would need a few years of developing. I expect him to have the same type of impact as Rudy Gobert does on the Jazz. Plays limitied minutes showing a ton of upside and potential.

Kaminsky is the perfect offensive fit next to Cousins. Amazing stretch 4, but his defense and shot blocking are auestion marks.

Those 2 pGs are probably not lottery picks.

Johnson is in my eyes Ron Artest 2.0. He's a much better defensive player than Gay has/will ever be. I think if he really shines, it makes Gay a whole lot more expandable. He would make a great trading chip.

The way I see it, if we draft in the top 6, no way will we find a way to mess this up.

If you really dissect into this draft, you can see how amazing and special it can be...especially for us.
Next years draft is probably going to suck, so I wouldn't mind if we just have the Bulls our next year pick. This draft pick can be a huge difference for our success next year. I think thi season is lost...and we should just go for the pick.

 

[funkykingston]

To be clear, those were examples of the questions I've been asking myself and I have my own (relatively fluid) answers to them. Which isn't to say I don't appreciate your response.

That being said, I don't really see Towns as Drummond-like. He's not as athletic or as much of a physical specimen. But much more skilled IMO. I almost wish he played at another school so we could really see what he cand do. I don't see much of Bogut in Cauley-Stein. I see Tyson Chandler.

I'm guessing Russell will play SG in the NBA. As a SG he's got good quickness and his passing is really good for the position. As a PG I think he'll struggle against speedsters and he doesn't really have the type of game to punish little guards on the other end. We'll see.

I can't speak on Mudiay. I've never seen his HS tape or any of his games in the CBA. I like Kaminsky but he seems like a nice role player and not a difference maker. Not the kind of guy worth tanking for. I've never seen tape on Porzingas.

I can kind of understand the Artest/Johnson comparisons just due to build, size and defensive potential. But he just seems so much more fluid than Ron-Ron ever was. And Johnson doesn't have Artest's quick hands or his edge. Either way, I don't think you can afford to take him with Gay locked up for three more years. Especially when this team is desperate for shooting or a third star - ideally one good enough to make Gay the third option. Johnson, as much as I like him isn't that guy.

The Kings still have their 2nd rounder don't they? I think you almost have to add a shooter with that pick.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I don't see much of Bogut in Cauley-Stein. I see Tyson Chandler.

I'm more with you, but I like Cauley-Stein's hustle much more than Chandler's.

The Kings still have their 2nd rounder don't they? I think you almost have to add a shooter with that pick.

No, we do not have the second rounder.

 

[funkykingston]

I'm more with you, but I like Cauley-Stein's hustle much more than Chandler's.

No, we do not have the second rounder.

Cauley-Stein just covers so much ground on defense. I'm not sure he can do it on the NBA level but I can't think of many 7 footers that can switch on picks and contain guards. Defensively he's ideal next to Cousins.

Bummer about the 2nd rounder. That's where I'd be looking to grab a bench shooter - either a wing or a stretch four like Aaron White out of Iowa. Or maybe a scoring PG to bring off the bench.

The sad part of thinking about the draft is that it makes me realize how many issues this Kings roster has. Also makes me appreciate the job Malone was doing even more than I did before.

 

[206Fan]

To be clear, those were examples of the questions I've been asking myself and I have my own (relatively fluid) answers to them. Which isn't to say I don't appreciate your response.

That being said, I don't really see Towns as Drummond-like. He's not as athletic or as much of a physical specimen. But much more skilled IMO. I almost wish he played at another school so we could really see what he cand do. I don't see much of Bogut in Cauley-Stein. I see Tyson Chandler.

I'm guessing Russell will play SG in the NBA. As a SG he's got good quickness and his passing is really good for the position. As a PG I think he'll struggle against speedsters and he doesn't really have the type of game to punish little guards on the other end. We'll see.

I can't speak on Mudiay. I've never seen his HS tape or any of his games in the CBA. I like Kaminsky but he seems like a nice role player and not a difference maker. Not the kind of guy worth tanking for. I've never seen tape on Porzingas.

I can kind of understand the Artest/Johnson comparisons just due to build, size and defensive potential. But he just seems so much more fluid than Ron-Ron ever was. And Johnson doesn't have Artest's quick hands or his edge. Either way, I don't think you can afford to take him with Gay locked up for three more years. Especially when this team is desperate for shooting or a third star - ideally one good enough to make Gay the third option. Johnson, as much as I like him isn't that guy.

The Kings still have their 2nd rounder don't they? I think you almost have to add a shooter with that pick.

I don't think Towns is similar to Drummond, but if you're talking about the impact he will have on the team in his first year, it'll be what Drummond's 1st year was like. Rebound, block shots, and protect the paint. That's the very very least Towns will give you in his 1st year.

I think Bogut is very good at protecting the paint area, which I think WCS will excel at. I don't they're overall similar players, but the way Bogut hovers around the paint and contests shots, is probably the way WCS will too.


There is this analysis video of Mudiay in China. http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Emmanuel-Mudiay-Chinese-Season-Video-Summary-and-Analysis-4812/ Might be worth checking out sometime down the road

I think if you're looking for a player in this draft who will force Gay into the 3rd option, you're probably looking at Okafor, Mudiay, Russell, Jerian Grant, Bobby Portis(PF), or Rashad Vaughn(SG).

This draft is very interesting, and if the FO does play their cards right, it could be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. I believe there are KDs, Lillards, and Currys in this draft. Players who will come in and make in immediate impact day 1.

 

[Chubbs]

Didn't we tank for WCS last season? Part of last year's best ever draft? That netted us the immortal Nik Stauskas?

Does this ever end?

 

[206Fan]

Didn't we tank for WCS last season? Part of last year's best ever draft? That netted us the immortal Nik Stauskas?

Does this ever end?

It'll end next year... when we get 5th seed in the playoffs with the help of Stauskas and whatever this draft pick nets us.

After this year, I never want to hear the Kings next to the word lottery ever again.. just hold it out for just 1 more year. A top 5 pick won't hurt us

 

[HndsmCelt]

It'll end next year... when we get 5th seed in the playoffs with the help of Stauskas and whatever this draft pick nets us.

After this year, I never want to hear the Kings next to the word lottery ever again.. just hold it out for just 1 more year. A top 5 pick won't hurt us

Unfortunately this is the EXACT same statement posted last year, and the year before that and the year before that...

 

[randymoss1881]

Didn't we tank for WCS last season? Part of last year's best ever draft? That netted us the immortal Nik Stauskas?

Does this ever end?

Stauskas was nba ready are you not satisfied with his play.

 

[Warhawk]

It's clear we're just not going to see eye to eye on this. Players force trades by threatening to walk when their contract ends or simply refusing to play for their current team. Boogie is not anywhere close to the end of his contract and I think he has way too much pride to sit out games or dog it for any reason.

Also, the idea that our inability to trade future picks is handicapping our rebuild is a complete paper tiger. Who are we anywhere close to acquiring that a protected future pick is standing in the way of? The last one Petrie traded got us JJ freakin Hickson. How's that working out?

Draft picks often take 2+ years to develop. It's not a sure thing. Our front office doesn't know what they're doing anyway.

This is all speculation. I tend to agree, but I also don't see the point in advocating decisions borne out of fear. You're making it sound like having a top 10 pick is a bad thing. A young talent represents hope for the future. We have three very good veterans already. Ben is coming along. We absolutely need one more front line talent and it's an absolute fact that drafting in the top 10 or trading a top 10 pick is every teams best chance to add frontline talent. Deals for star level talent that involve future picks are comparatively rare and often involve said player promising to sign an extension with their new team. Hardly a given in our situation.

Maybe so, but he also re-signed with the understanding that the team finally had stability with new ownership/FO, Malone was going to be the coach for several years, and that the talent level was going to start improving with the wizard PDA looking 4 moves ahead.

So far the starting level talent has improved and after another year of suffering through a 28-win season but getting a taste of winning on the US team, the coach that he would run through walls for got canned out of nowhere for apparently preaching defense and winning games, which is what Boogie seemed to be enjoying immensely.

The "substitute teacher" has Boogie playing on the wing and the team losing games at a torrid pace, and to top it off despite putting up clear all-star numbers he almost doesn't make the AS game. He is as frustrated as he has ever been in Sacramento and sees stability at other organizations across the league. He has seen draft picks come and go like miners in a whorehouse and most are playing on better teams with better results as soon as they are out of the capitol of CA.

I didn't say that we would use the pick immediately, but they can be useful tools in trade. And if you don't have it you can't use it. We don't know what options that pick may have opened up.

We have had several top 10± picks recently and other than Boogie, how many are on the Kings and tearing it up? *crickets* Yep, none. Ben is getting better but still is nowhere near where we need him to be right now. Under Malone he (and the team) were playing so much better and getting wins. I think I would rather go back to that than having another pick that likely doesn't pan out here in Sacramento.

I don't see this as fear. It's realism. We keep taking one step forward and two steps back. How long do you think it is before the young AS center finally gets fed up with the incompetence? Talent will be much more likely to sign here with a winning record under a quality coach and the Boogie Monster a happy camper. That is more important to me than another Nik Stauskas riding the pine for a few years.

Let's get back to winning some ****ing games, shall we? I want to stop worrying about if we keep another damn draft pick. We have been picking high in the draft for years and where has it gotten us besides Boogie and a sad sack of a bench?

 

[hrdboild]

Maybe so, but he also re-signed with the understanding that the team finally had stability with new ownership/FO, Malone was going to be the coach for several years, and that the talent level was going to start improving with the wizard PDA looking 4 moves ahead.

So far the starting level talent has improved and after another year of suffering through a 28-win season but getting a taste of winning on the US team, the coach that he would run through walls for got canned out of nowhere for apparently preaching defense and winning games, which is what Boogie seemed to be enjoying immensely.

The "substitute teacher" has Boogie playing on the wing and the team losing games at a torrid pace, and to top it off despite putting up clear all-star numbers he almost doesn't make the AS game. He is as frustrated as he has ever been in Sacramento and sees stability at other organizations across the league. He has seen draft picks come and go like miners in a whorehouse and most are playing on better teams with better results as soon as they are out of the capitol of CA.

I didn't say that we would use the pick immediately, but they can be useful tools in trade. And if you don't have it you can't use it. We don't know what options that pick may have opened up.

We have had several top 10± picks recently and other than Boogie, how many are on the Kings and tearing it up? *crickets* Yep, none. Ben is getting better but still is nowhere near where we need him to be right now. Under Malone he (and the team) were playing so much better and getting wins. I think I would rather go back to that than having another pick that likely doesn't pan out here in Sacramento.

I don't see this as fear. It's realism. We keep taking one step forward and two steps back. How long do you think it is before the young AS center finally gets fed up with the incompetence? Talent will be much more likely to sign here with a winning record under a quality coach and the Boogie Monster a happy camper. That is more important to me than another Nik Stauskas riding the pine for a few years.

Let's get back to winning some ****ing games, shall we? I want to stop worrying about if we keep another damn draft pick. We have been picking high in the draft for years and where has it gotten us besides Boogie and a sad sack of a bench?

We're talking about Cousins here right? Cause he resigned before Malone had coached a single game and PDA had been the general manager of the team for 3 months. He re-signed because Vivek told him he was the centerpiece of the franchise, and that hasn't changed. Everything else you're saying here is generalized. Let's have a winning record, let's win some games, let's hire a quality coach. Obviously we all want those things. That's not what this discussion is about. No matter who we hire to finish out the season we're not going to have a winning record. Do you think free agents care if the head coach was hired in February or April? What difference does it make to them?

Also, speaking now of the draft, I never wanted Nik Stauskas anyway and he's not in this draft is he? There's plenty of guys we could have drafted in each of the past drafts who would have helped us a lot. Look at that 2011 draft again. I count 10 players we could have drafted at #7 that anybody here would love to have on the team. Same thing in 2012. Just because Petrie screwed up those drafts and Nik Stauskas hasn't lived up to expectations yet doesn't mean you give up on the draft completely. If not for the draft we don't have DeMarcus Cousins after all. Before those misfires we got Tyreke and Cousins back to back. Maybe we're due.

 

[Warhawk]

We're talking about Cousins here right? Cause he resigned before Malone had coached a single game and PDA had been the general manager of the team for 3 months. He re-signed because Vivek told him he was the centerpiece of the franchise, and that hasn't changed. Everything else you're saying here is generalized. Let's have a winning record, let's win some games, let's hire a quality coach. Obviously we all want those things. That's not what this discussion is about. No matter who we hire to finish out the season we're not going to have a winning record. Do you think free agents care if the head coach was hired in February or April? What difference does it make to them?

Also, speaking now of the draft, I never wanted Nik Stauskas anyway and he's not in this draft is he? There's plenty of guys we could have drafted in each of the past drafts who would have helped us a lot. Look at that 2011 draft again. I count 10 players we could have drafted at #7 that anybody here would love to have on the team. Same thing in 2012. Just because Petrie screwed up those drafts and Nik Stauskas hasn't lived up to expectations yet doesn't mean you give up on the draft completely. If not for the draft we don't have DeMarcus Cousins after all. Before those misfires we got Tyreke and Cousins back to back. Maybe we're due.

It makes a difference if we can show that we turned it around for the last part of the season and that it will likely continue into the next. Otherwise it is a guess, not something you can point to. Players want to play for winning teams.

We don't know if this draft will have better or worse results than Nik for the Kings - that's the point. Not whether you wanted him. You can't just say that the draft is so critical to the Kings this year when history has shown it to be of VERY little consequence to our winning (except for DMC)!

We've been losing for nearly a decade. And that is a tough mindset to get out of. I am not going to support anything that promotes more losing. Like Brick said, you tank hard when appropriate to get the franchise piece (if you are lucky) and then you go balls to the wall to start winning. It's time to start winning. We finally had a taste of it this year before Malone was canned, and look at the result to the team when the rug was yanked out. We need to turn that around IMMEDIATELY and get to winning games again. Given our draft history, we would likely draft Greg Oden anyways. I'm tired of the "promise" of the draft. We know we can win. It's time to do so.

 

[hrdboild]

It makes a difference if we can show that we turned it around for the last part of the season and that it will likely continue into the next. Otherwise it is a guess, not something you can point to. Players want to play for winning teams.

We don't know if this draft will have better or worse results than Nik for the Kings - that's the point. Not whether you wanted him. You can't just say that the draft is so critical to the Kings this year when history has shown it to be of VERY little consequence to our winning (except for DMC)!

We've been losing for nearly a decade. And that is a tough mindset to get out of. I am not going to support anything that promotes more losing. Like Brick said, you tank hard when appropriate to get the franchise piece (if you are lucky) and then you go balls to the wall to start winning. It's time to start winning. We finally had a taste of it this year before Malone was canned, and look at the result to the team when the rug was yanked out. We need to turn that around IMMEDIATELY and get to winning games again. Given our draft history, we would likely draft Greg Oden anyways. I'm tired of the "promise" of the draft. We know we can win. It's time to do so.

It seems to me history says exactly the opposite.

Mitch Richmond: Acquired by trading the 3rd overall pick in the 1991 draft (Billy Owens)
Peja Stojakovic: Acquired with the 14th overall pick of the 1996 draft
Doug Christie: Acquired for Corliss Williamson (13th overall pick of the 1995 draft)
Mike Bibby: Acquired for Jason Williams (7th overall pick of the 1998 draft)
Chris Webber: Acquired for Mitch Richmond (see above)
DeMarcus Cousins: Acquired with the 5th overall pick of the 2010 draft

Just two top 5 picks account for the three biggest stars in Sacramento Kings history. How many games are we winning without these guys?
Since you mentioned the playoff drought, let's look at every lottery selection we've made over that stretch:

2007 was a terrible draft. We drafted Spencer Hawes 10th overall who become 1 year of Samuel Dalembert who left as a free agent. Had we lost 1 more game that season we could have drafted Joakim Noah.
2008 was a great draft. We drafted Jason Thompson 12th overall who is still on the team. We passed on Roy Hibbert, Serge Ibaka, Nic Batum, Nikola Pekovic, Ryan Anderson, Omer Asik, Goran Dragic, and others.
2009 was another great draft. We drafted Tyreke Evans 4th overall who our current front office let leave in free agency. We passed on Stephen Curry, DeMar Derozan, Jrue Holiday, Taj Gibson, Brandon Jennings, Ricky Rubio, Jeff Teague, and others.
2010 we drafted DeMarcus Cousins 5th overall, our first All Star in 10 years.
2011 we drafted Jimmer Fredette 10th overall after trading down from the 7th pick. We passed on Klay Thompson, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker, Kawhi Leonard, Markieff Morris, Nikola Vucevic, Iman Shumpert, Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, and others.
2012 we drafted Thomas Robinson 5th overall. He was traded for Patrick Patterson and change who was then part of the Rudy Gay trade. We passed on Damian Lillard, Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond, Jared Sullinger, Tony Wroten, Draymond Green, Kyle O'Quinn, and others.
2013 we drafted Ben McLemore 7th overall who is currently the only productive SG on our roster. Had we lost 2 more games that season we could have drafted Nerlens Noel.
2014 we drafted Nik Stauskas 8th overall.

2008, 2011, and 2012 were the biggest misses and there was a ton of talent on the board in all of those drafts. The draft itself was not the problem in any of these years. It's what Petrie did with it. The 2011 and 2012 drafts should have propelled us into the playoffs if we had hit on any of those guys. Now you could look at this list and say the draft is a crap shoot, what's the point. I look at this list and see a hell of a lot of missed opportunity and self-inflicted wounds. Not to mention, the only reason our team has hope at all right now is because Petrie got one draft right in 2010.

2015: Jahlil Okafor, Karl Towns, Emmanuel Mudiay, D'Angelo Russell, Stanley Johnson, Myles Tuner, Justise Winslow, Kristaps Porzingis, Mario Hezonja, Kelly Oubre, Willie Cauley-Stein, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Frank Kaminsky, Jerian Grant, Tyrone Wallace

Some of these guys we'll be talking about as star players in a few years as well. I think we only need two more players to be a solid playoff team, but they have to be the right two players. Depending on what happens with the lottery, there's a chance we could parlay a top 6 pick into the two players we need to be competitive next season. Other than an All Star player (who you probably don't want to trade anyway) a top 10 pick is the most valuable asset any team has.

 

[randymoss1881]

Did you guys see the emotion from cousins. How the hell can some of you want to tank after seeing that. Hopefully Karl is signed and this thread becomes useless.

 

[Warhawk]

I was talking recent history, not back that far.

Look, I am not saying that having a pick is a bad thing - that is idiotic. But we have to transfer that pick at some point and as long as it is encumbered it is harder to make any moves. I am more interested in getting this team winning again than stressing about a hypothetical pick position or finally transferring the pick.

 

[stevetaebo]

The hell with the pick!! Karl's here! Let's play the spoiler!!! Heck there's always that 5% chance we might land a top 3 pick anyway!

GO BOOGIE AND KARL!