Josh Smith?
- Thread starter Schmoe
- Start date
- Status
If you can do it without getting rid of any said players you're golden. The major mistake teams like these current Kings make is not jumping on a great deal that could put you over the top because your lineup works despite having some of the lower per players in the league in it. JT has provided a great role at times, and I think if this team could use him to solidify the backup C spot so they don't have to put that Williams/Landry frontcourt combo again you would be much better for it. The great thing about what JT is doing is you can use him almost as a specialist if you have to. Actually that's kind of how Malone is using him now anyway. If Smith sucks, oh well, it was a gamble worth it considering this team has no shot at adding a player like him otherwise. There are no athletic shot blockers that can also handle and pass like Smith in free agency any time soon. They have to take on Sessions though.
I would rather throw in Landry instead of JT (if plausible financially). My reasoning is as follows: You kill 2 birds with 1 stone. You throw in Landry instead of JT, you suddenly find yourself with your brand new starting 4 in Smith, as well as your backup C to Cuz, and one that happens to be great in man to man defense with the benefit of already knowing the system. Our bench loses some scoring prowess in the post without Landry, but the positives in this case outweigh the negatives. It would mean more Reggie and possibly even Hollins, but I take that risk. My next step would be to trade Sessions for a dependable bench scorer, or even use the remaining trade exception we have to get someone that can create/score at least somewhat efficiently. Ray is ready for more minutes!
Piston fans take on smith on realgm. Dude is shooting 39% from 2s just terrible people are shooting better than that from 3. Landry/DWill is the most I'd give.
"I dont know if anyone who doesn't watch Pistons regularly can understand just how damaging Smiths play is for the team. Yes, his stats are horrible, but I think he is even worse then his stats suggest. Many bring up how he still "fills the boxscore" or "is a good player if he sticks to his game". He just makes 2 bad plays fr one good play, and that is a recipe for losing a lot of games. He is who he is, and he wont change his game. Now that he is starting to lose his athletism he is headed right to Gerald Wallace kind of fall.
He was supposed to be a good defender, but even on that end he is maybe the worst player on the team. It boggles my mind how he is able to miss rotations and leave his man WIDE open maybe dozen times a game. No amount of blocked shots will help if his man absolutely torches Pistons 3 out of 4 times. I didnt watch him a lot during his Hawk days since I disliked him even then, was he any better in his younger days? Or maybe he was in a perfect spot with big Al Horford and the likes next to him?
This all being said, I would trade him for absolutely anything. Just get this clown out of town asap."
"I dont know if anyone who doesn't watch Pistons regularly can understand just how damaging Smiths play is for the team. Yes, his stats are horrible, but I think he is even worse then his stats suggest. Many bring up how he still "fills the boxscore" or "is a good player if he sticks to his game". He just makes 2 bad plays fr one good play, and that is a recipe for losing a lot of games. He is who he is, and he wont change his game. Now that he is starting to lose his athletism he is headed right to Gerald Wallace kind of fall.
He was supposed to be a good defender, but even on that end he is maybe the worst player on the team. It boggles my mind how he is able to miss rotations and leave his man WIDE open maybe dozen times a game. No amount of blocked shots will help if his man absolutely torches Pistons 3 out of 4 times. I didnt watch him a lot during his Hawk days since I disliked him even then, was he any better in his younger days? Or maybe he was in a perfect spot with big Al Horford and the likes next to him?
This all being said, I would trade him for absolutely anything. Just get this clown out of town asap."
JT has been a very good one-on-one defender of post players for a couple years now. You can go back and look at game threads from last year where people were lauding his efforts against Howard, Aldridge etc. And blown Memphis rotation aside, JT has improved noticeably this year in terms of his team defense.
I've said this before but essentially Josh Smith is in the same or worse spot that Rudy Gay was in Toronto. I wouldn't give up any players that are producing when Detroit likely just wants him out. IF the Kings were to deal for Smith I'd say Sessions, Evans and Williams should be the offer. The team would have to wait until December 22nd due to Sesssions' contract but it would give Detroit two ending contracts and a backup PG with one more year at $2 million or so while relieving them of JSmoove's albatross of a contract.
The Kings would need to sign a third string PG and another swingman (Terrence Williams) but it would leave all of the parts responsible for the Kings strong start in place. Even then, I'd be lukewarm on the idea of adding Smith.
I've said this before but essentially Josh Smith is in the same or worse spot that Rudy Gay was in Toronto. I wouldn't give up any players that are producing when Detroit likely just wants him out. IF the Kings were to deal for Smith I'd say Sessions, Evans and Williams should be the offer. The team would have to wait until December 22nd due to Sesssions' contract but it would give Detroit two ending contracts and a backup PG with one more year at $2 million or so while relieving them of JSmoove's albatross of a contract.
The Kings would need to sign a third string PG and another swingman (Terrence Williams) but it would leave all of the parts responsible for the Kings strong start in place. Even then, I'd be lukewarm on the idea of adding Smith.
I'd play wait and see on this. The issues are pretty clear:
- The Kings need a PF with range and athleticism who can complement Cousins
- The team needs better passing, overall, and could use a weak-side shot blocker
...and Josh Smith brings these with a giant asterisk. We all are aware of his negatives, but also: how will Smith adjust his games to having fewer possessions? The Kings have a (somewhat) system of feeding the ball to Gay/Cousins with only garbage buckets for the PF position. Also: is Smith's issue a positional one or is he truly declining?
Based on how well we're outperforming expectations, I'd give this a long look. However, I still believe we are due for an upgrade if we're to be a perennial playoff team, yet alone a contender.
- The Kings need a PF with range and athleticism who can complement Cousins
- The team needs better passing, overall, and could use a weak-side shot blocker
...and Josh Smith brings these with a giant asterisk. We all are aware of his negatives, but also: how will Smith adjust his games to having fewer possessions? The Kings have a (somewhat) system of feeding the ball to Gay/Cousins with only garbage buckets for the PF position. Also: is Smith's issue a positional one or is he truly declining?
Based on how well we're outperforming expectations, I'd give this a long look. However, I still believe we are due for an upgrade if we're to be a perennial playoff team, yet alone a contender.
The Best trade right now would probably be something along the lines of Landry/Williams/Sessions. Move JT to backup C so you have some size off the bench and if you need to bring in JT to play against Davis, Love, or the other two bigs he plays really well against you do it as needed. This team has one major flaw right now and it's the athletic ability into the front court as One and Done said. This team has not a single big besides Williams who is threat to finish above the rim.
JT has proven super duper solid in certain matchups. He gives fits to any PF that tries to maneuver around his man rather than through his man. JT is a give and take defender though and his team defense is still really bad. His pick and roll defense is borderline terrible too. He's gotten beat off the dribble quite often as well. It's kind of surprising really he used to be really fleet of foot and could switch to some SF's and do a respectable job. All in all because he's shown more than capable against some of the leagues best PF's you do anything and everything to not let him go in a deal to upgrade the position. Smith could give some of the production you lose with Landry, I don't think there are too many other players that can have the effect JT has on players like Davis and Love.
A few things I will give smith credit for and will help us out.
1. Last year he held oppents to 48% at the rim and gets 1.7 bpg
2. He is averaging 4.8apg so he can pass and should be a willing passer when he gets surrounded by DMC, Gay, and Collison.
3. Is only shooting 1.5 3s per game lowest since 2009 after telling van SVG he would stop shooting so many of them.
1. Last year he held oppents to 48% at the rim and gets 1.7 bpg
2. He is averaging 4.8apg so he can pass and should be a willing passer when he gets surrounded by DMC, Gay, and Collison.
3. Is only shooting 1.5 3s per game lowest since 2009 after telling van SVG he would stop shooting so many of them.
Watched the W's game and there is no doubt about it, that team is giving up. Smith and the rest look like they just don't care. One major observation I had though is that offensively as a passer and with Malone wanting guys who will move the ball Smith would be beyond perfect. Him giving up and looking like a zombie is concerning and Kings fans have seen plenty of that in the years past but even not trying he makes the easy pass every time. I think if they traded for him it could be a Rudy Gay level move because he'd fit right in with that passing.
J
I disagree I am not satisfied with where we are. Compared to a year ago sure, but I'm not ready to call this roster done. We still need to take risks to be elite. We need another big move. Especially when we can sell high and buy low. I believe JT and DWill are at their high and JSmoove is at his low.
I am reluctant to get rid of JT just because he would be a great backup C for us and I don't want to trade that away. Detroit doesn't hold the cards here, we do. Everyone knows they suck and are desperate. Landry+Williams (if possible). It's funny though, because last season when they assembled this team I thought they were going to be difficult to deal with and could reach the 2nd round. I have no idea what went wrong, they now even have a good coach.
#1 I never said I was satisfied the way we are
#2 I never said our roster was done
#3 I wouldn't mind having Josh but I wouldn't give up anything of substance to get him. He could end up playing as bad for us as in Detroit. If anyone knows different, that he would blossom forth on the Kings, let's do it but I am not willing to give up Ben, for
instance, to get a guy who is playing poorly.
There is no rush. Qualifying for the playoffs would be nice but I wouldn't take a huge risk just for that. I wouldn't take a risk of dismembering whatever this team has going for it as I want more than qualifying for #8. The FO may have different plans and you may have different plans. I want to shoot high.
#2 I never said our roster was done
#3 I wouldn't mind having Josh but I wouldn't give up anything of substance to get him. He could end up playing as bad for us as in Detroit. If anyone knows different, that he would blossom forth on the Kings, let's do it but I am not willing to give up Ben, for
instance, to get a guy who is playing poorly.
There is no rush. Qualifying for the playoffs would be nice but I wouldn't take a huge risk just for that. I wouldn't take a risk of dismembering whatever this team has going for it as I want more than qualifying for #8. The FO may have different plans and you may have different plans. I want to shoot high.
K
Just watched Smith against the Warrior and for 90% of the game he played a perfect team game situated to his strengths, he was attacking the rim and making terrific passes. If we can give up Landry/Williams for him you got to take that. No way would I give up Ben with the way he fits into the team and the effort he gives away at this point.
Smith could actually help us in that we don't have to play Sessions anymore we can have Smith essential be the point forward, the guy can really pass the ball when he wants to, we have to sell him the idea (if we trade for him), that h'es going to be the facilitator/finisher not the shot creator.
Smith could actually help us in that we don't have to play Sessions anymore we can have Smith essential be the point forward, the guy can really pass the ball when he wants to, we have to sell him the idea (if we trade for him), that h'es going to be the facilitator/finisher not the shot creator.
I agree with you. I think we have a special player in Ben. His defense has been phenomenal and his offense is starting to click. He seems so automatic catching and shooting now. He's been a lot more aggressive this year showing he can attack the basket. Ben has been amazing this season. He still has a ton of untapped potential.
I'm also not sure why people think Detroit would want Jason Thompson. If Monroe is for sure leaving Detroit as a free agent then the Pistons would want the cap room to try and build around Drummond and the lottery pick they are likely to have after this season. If Monroe is staying they want to clear out the PF spot for him to start while freeing up some money to extend him this offseason and still make a signing or two.
Both Landry and Thompson have two more years on their deals after this season for over $6 million. I think Detroit would rather have ending contracts.
Smith for Williams, Evans and Sessions works and it gives Detroit $12 million in cap savings with only Sessions on the hook for next season at $2 million which (even given his terrible start to this season) isn't bad.
It would also leave the Kings around $1.5 million under the luxury tax threshold which would be way more than enough to sign one more backup SG/SF and third string PG for the rest of the season.
For next season it would leave the Kings with $69 million in salary so hopefully they'd be able to bring back Omri with a bit of a raise and still fill the end of the bench moving forward. Not having a first round pick (and the guaranteed money that goes with it) would actually help in that scenario.
But again, this is all predicated on the idea that the Josh Smith of today would actually make the Kings a better team which I have quite a bit of doubt about.
Of course the nice thing is that you'd still have Jason Thompson as a potential starter for games like Memphis etc.
Both Landry and Thompson have two more years on their deals after this season for over $6 million. I think Detroit would rather have ending contracts.
Smith for Williams, Evans and Sessions works and it gives Detroit $12 million in cap savings with only Sessions on the hook for next season at $2 million which (even given his terrible start to this season) isn't bad.
It would also leave the Kings around $1.5 million under the luxury tax threshold which would be way more than enough to sign one more backup SG/SF and third string PG for the rest of the season.
For next season it would leave the Kings with $69 million in salary so hopefully they'd be able to bring back Omri with a bit of a raise and still fill the end of the bench moving forward. Not having a first round pick (and the guaranteed money that goes with it) would actually help in that scenario.
But again, this is all predicated on the idea that the Josh Smith of today would actually make the Kings a better team which I have quite a bit of doubt about.
Of course the nice thing is that you'd still have Jason Thompson as a potential starter for games like Memphis etc.
I'd still take the gamble on Josh Smith and hope that this coaching staff and Rudy/DeMarcus talking in his ear can help make him a productive player here and take a lot less jumpshots/three pointers and focus more on shot blocking, rebounding and man to man defense/help defense. However, I would not include JT in this deal...Detroit really has no place to bargain at this point because they will get cents on the dollar when they do decide to trade Smith, it's a question of when.
- Status