[Grades] Grades v. Thunder 11/9/2014
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Might not just be in the cards for him. Some guys, no matter how good of shape they are in, just can't go for extended minutes. And honestly, I'd much rather have an effective 30-32 MPG Boogie than running him into the ground for 36+ MPG.
What that does do is it puts the onus on Malone to sub in Cousins effectively and find ways to get him a little extra break
What that does do is it puts the onus on Malone to sub in Cousins effectively and find ways to get him a little extra break
Ah, but there's the rub. If Malone does do that, he gets compared to Keith Smart. I swear, Kings fans have become the more neurotic group of people on the face of the earth.
IMHO some fans set the bar so high for their players and coaches there's virtually no way they (the players and coaches) can meet those expectations. And when they fail, it becomes all doom and gloom and end of the world.
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People really need to just take a deep breath and relax a bit. Things aren't THAT bad. Sure, there are a lot of things the Kings need to work on but we're 5-2. Did anyone REALLY and truly think we'd be even over .500 at this point?
IMHO some fans set the bar so high for their players and coaches there's virtually no way they (the players and coaches) can meet those expectations. And when they fail, it becomes all doom and gloom and end of the world.
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People really need to just take a deep breath and relax a bit. Things aren't THAT bad. Sure, there are a lot of things the Kings need to work on but we're 5-2. Did anyone REALLY and truly think we'd be even over .500 at this point?
Too early to put any labels on Stauskas. You gotta give him 20-30 games before you can even begin to form an opinion really. I think he is much more athletic than people give him credit for. I think he will be a decent 3 and D type 2 guard who can slash when he is pressed to. He has proven to have a consistent outside shot. He has not shown it yet at this level but once he stops thinking about playing and just goes out and plays he will be fine. That will take a minimum of 20 games. Come back in December if you still think he is a defensive liability then we have a problem for sure. But I suspect he will become a outside threat and competent team defense type player.
Have you seen Payton play? His defense is really overrated. His offense is terrible, but he's a good play maker. On this team, Ray would probably be above him on the depth chart. Payton is raw. He's at least a year or two away from contributing on a playoff team. Payton in 2 guard system won't work. He can't score.. not even a lick. Nik's has a ceiling just as high as Payton's.
This loss was tough, but the reason it was tough was because of our upcoming games. Our success is so fragile right now. We could easily be sub .500 after these next 4 games. Would we be able to sustain and get back on track if we drop the next 4 games? I hope so, but it is definitely a concern at this point in time.
When looking at this game in isolation, it isn't as bad. The Thunder came out with a great game plan. I'm sure we'll be more prepared next time we face a zone defense. They just had the first movers advantage.
The other thing we have to consider (which I haven't seen mentioned yet) is that we did come off a double overtime game. Granted we had a day of rest, but those overtime games can be brutal physically. The game intensifies usually with 5-7 minutes left in the 4th. This is usually the most tiring point in the game. When you play not only that intense 5-7 minites in the 4th quarter but an extra intense 10 minutes in two overtimes, it can really take a toll on you. We did look flat this game, and I would chalk some of it up to that double overtime game we had on Friday (some of it to the Thunder's game plan, and some of it to the Thunder making every shot they took in the first half).
We'll have to see how they respond tomorrow, but I'm hopeful they'll have a little more energy coming out of the gates.
When looking at this game in isolation, it isn't as bad. The Thunder came out with a great game plan. I'm sure we'll be more prepared next time we face a zone defense. They just had the first movers advantage.
The other thing we have to consider (which I haven't seen mentioned yet) is that we did come off a double overtime game. Granted we had a day of rest, but those overtime games can be brutal physically. The game intensifies usually with 5-7 minutes left in the 4th. This is usually the most tiring point in the game. When you play not only that intense 5-7 minites in the 4th quarter but an extra intense 10 minutes in two overtimes, it can really take a toll on you. We did look flat this game, and I would chalk some of it up to that double overtime game we had on Friday (some of it to the Thunder's game plan, and some of it to the Thunder making every shot they took in the first half).
We'll have to see how they respond tomorrow, but I'm hopeful they'll have a little more energy coming out of the gates.
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Your so right (again). I could see the basic Kings problems also in the wins and they are there also in losses. It doesn't bother be the least. First of all, every team has its weaknesses. So does every coach. There is no team that wins 82 games a season. For me it's the basics. When the team plays team ball and the ball moves effectively combined with hard defensive effort and good rebounding, I'm really happy.
Actually I'm even more excited because the team is not impregnated with superstars. Because of that I know that players are going to make mistakes. I'm in no hurry with Stauskas. Let the guy get used to the speed of an NBA game. Patience with Ben will produce a great player. I love it when a team that is "not supposed" to win goes and punishes top teams with relative consistency. This team is on the right track big time and I'm not going to change my opinion the least after one lost game that could even have been won.
Actually I'm even more excited because the team is not impregnated with superstars. Because of that I know that players are going to make mistakes. I'm in no hurry with Stauskas. Let the guy get used to the speed of an NBA game. Patience with Ben will produce a great player. I love it when a team that is "not supposed" to win goes and punishes top teams with relative consistency. This team is on the right track big time and I'm not going to change my opinion the least after one lost game that could even have been won.
Stauskas will be 3 and maybe D guard. His best chance to rise in this league is through offense, where he showed some flashes, but he's a rookie with just two weeks of NBA season under his belt, so you can't expect consistency. He has no chance of being anything but below average 1-on-1 defender, just doesn't have the foot speed. But he can learn team defense and within team scheme has a chance even to contain his man. Problem is there's no Artest or MGasol (Cuz is getting closer, though, but moments like hard double team on Ibaka last night still happen occasionally) to clean up his mistakes without losing his own man - most guys either don't help or overhelp, leading to wide open shots.
He signed a 1-year contract, so Sixers are not keen on making him a focal point, plus he's not much of a creator, and ROY is notoriously determined by who gets most points, so he wouldn't be in conversation for that anyway.
He signed a 1-year contract, so Sixers are not keen on making him a focal point, plus he's not much of a creator, and ROY is notoriously determined by who gets most points, so he wouldn't be in conversation for that anyway.
For experienced teams like the Spurs, Miami, Clippers, .etc, "The Sky isn't falling" may very well be the case if put in our situation. They can lose a game against a star-depleted team, shrug-off the loss like nothing happened, and go back winning in streaks multiple games. These are teams with winning mentality already established through seasons of playing as winners. I think the Kings players have not reached that adequate experience, nor have they developed that winning mentality yet. So, it is quite dangerous for Malone to have not secured this winnable game as a WIN. It may actually be the biggest set-back for our team or it may not. And I really hope the latter will hold true in our case.
How did it happen that we did not win against an OKC team without Durant and Westbrook even when we have the luxury of having a fairly functional Cousins and Gay (plus Collison) in our team?
It should have been a mismatch in our favor!
But we came in unprepared, especially against that zone defense. There is no excuse for this for even casual fans can very well see any team can use this defense effectively against us. We still use Reggie Evans from time to time at the high post to start a very confused offense that no one really understood why and the result most oftentimes is BS. We are still using Sessions 7 games into the season as our bench spark-plug and most of the time we failed. And the substitution pattern during the second half of almost every single game?
And so, we deserved this loss which should open Malone's eyes.
Advice to Malone:
Gather your coaching staff and sit-down before and after games. Plan and prepare the team as good coaches do. And execute a more or less winnable plan and substitution pattern. Same way you want to have your players to play their hardest effort, do the same. This is not like the high school or Collegiate level. You guys are being funded millions and you have to do your darnest best to give the expected result.
You have Gay and Cousins. And now you have Darren Collison. You also have a number of bench players who are are no longer push overs. We need to win every single winnable game and establish that winning mentality as early as now. I know you are a very inexperienced and unproven coach, but you've also shown flashes of being a very good coach. Please don't be a Keith Smart in the making and please don't let this good start go down the drain. We have the momentum and don't lose that momentum, lest you get us back to that lonely and shameful place at the bottom of the league again.
How did it happen that we did not win against an OKC team without Durant and Westbrook even when we have the luxury of having a fairly functional Cousins and Gay (plus Collison) in our team?
It should have been a mismatch in our favor!
But we came in unprepared, especially against that zone defense. There is no excuse for this for even casual fans can very well see any team can use this defense effectively against us. We still use Reggie Evans from time to time at the high post to start a very confused offense that no one really understood why and the result most oftentimes is BS. We are still using Sessions 7 games into the season as our bench spark-plug and most of the time we failed. And the substitution pattern during the second half of almost every single game?
And so, we deserved this loss which should open Malone's eyes.
Advice to Malone:
Gather your coaching staff and sit-down before and after games. Plan and prepare the team as good coaches do. And execute a more or less winnable plan and substitution pattern. Same way you want to have your players to play their hardest effort, do the same. This is not like the high school or Collegiate level. You guys are being funded millions and you have to do your darnest best to give the expected result.
You have Gay and Cousins. And now you have Darren Collison. You also have a number of bench players who are are no longer push overs. We need to win every single winnable game and establish that winning mentality as early as now. I know you are a very inexperienced and unproven coach, but you've also shown flashes of being a very good coach. Please don't be a Keith Smart in the making and please don't let this good start go down the drain. We have the momentum and don't lose that momentum, lest you get us back to that lonely and shameful place at the bottom of the league again.
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After having seen the consistant defensive effort that we've seen so far this year it would be hard for me to believe that the kings will come out playing lackadaisical basketball against Dallas after having lost this stupid game to OKC. I don't think that we will see a sudden or even a gradual drop off.
You've said 20-30 games in regards to both Ben and Nik now.
Frankly, with how young these guys are, you should be saying 2-3 SEASONS. 20-30 games will tell you a little, but certainly won't tell you what kind of player he'll be at age 24/25. Ben sucked on defense basically all of last season. Now he's making progress. If the FO decided what he was going to be based on his first 20 games they'd have sent him home already back to St. Louis.
The question remains, can the Kings afford to wait? They seem to have decided to let Ben develop for better or worse. Right now it's starting to pay off.
The problem is now it's on coach to develop two very talented but very young guys, while also trying to win. Never mind keeping a fan base (at least a portion of it) happy that thinks every game needs to be played like game 7 of the finals. If the team is that fragile, then long term success won't happen anyway. That's the goal right?
But questioning whether the coaches game plan for every game? Cmon. Of course they do. Combine the Kings double OT game, with the Thunder taking Memphis to the last moments in their previous game, it felt like a loss was coming our way. There had to be a letdown at some point.
The schedule has been brutal, and it continues. We've won a few we shouldn't have won, and lost one we should have won. Frankly, I'm not at the stage where a road game, any road game, is considered a win before playing the game. That's barely true for even the most elite teams. Every team is vulnerable on the road.
After 8 years of nothing but losing, I can deal with a loss to an undermanned Thunder team. Disappointed? Sure. But it felt a little greedy expecting a 6 game winning streak and a 4-0 road record. I remember winning 17 in a season not long ago.
Frankly, with how young these guys are, you should be saying 2-3 SEASONS. 20-30 games will tell you a little, but certainly won't tell you what kind of player he'll be at age 24/25. Ben sucked on defense basically all of last season. Now he's making progress. If the FO decided what he was going to be based on his first 20 games they'd have sent him home already back to St. Louis.
The question remains, can the Kings afford to wait? They seem to have decided to let Ben develop for better or worse. Right now it's starting to pay off.
The problem is now it's on coach to develop two very talented but very young guys, while also trying to win. Never mind keeping a fan base (at least a portion of it) happy that thinks every game needs to be played like game 7 of the finals. If the team is that fragile, then long term success won't happen anyway. That's the goal right?
But questioning whether the coaches game plan for every game? Cmon. Of course they do. Combine the Kings double OT game, with the Thunder taking Memphis to the last moments in their previous game, it felt like a loss was coming our way. There had to be a letdown at some point.
The schedule has been brutal, and it continues. We've won a few we shouldn't have won, and lost one we should have won. Frankly, I'm not at the stage where a road game, any road game, is considered a win before playing the game. That's barely true for even the most elite teams. Every team is vulnerable on the road.
After 8 years of nothing but losing, I can deal with a loss to an undermanned Thunder team. Disappointed? Sure. But it felt a little greedy expecting a 6 game winning streak and a 4-0 road record. I remember winning 17 in a season not long ago.
In the Phoenix game, the Kings had trouble getting the ball into Cousins because the Phoenix guards were pressuring the Kings guards, making it difficult to pass inside. In the Thunder game, it was the zone that made it difficult. In both cases, the opposing coaches decided that it was less important to contain the guards than to contain Cousins. In the Suns game, the door was open for the Kings guards to penetrate because of the tight coverage; in the Thunder game the door was open for outside shooting. The Kings need a *big* game from the guards to penetrate at will or bomb 3 pointers from the outside, not a nice little game. A big game. It's when you have the onslaught of 3 point shooting barrage that the opposition takes notice and begins to think that zoning Cousins or pressuring the guards isn't the best option. You want to engender uncertainty in the minds of the opposing coaches about their approach, and the best way to do that have some huge shooting nights from the guards, not games proportional to their "status" on the team.