[Game] Kings-Spurs Vegas Summer League - 7/11/14

[Chupacabra]

Stauskas displayed some pretty nice ball handling; a cross-over move that left his defender on his rear (literally) and a spin move to get to the basket in transition. He was able to get to the basket multiple times. All of this was In addition to shooting the ball well. I'm quite sure he'll be a difference maker this season.

 

[whozit]

....

I find busts pretty foul, and my nose starts twitching as soon as I catch that whiff. There are reasons that I was advocating trading or at least exploring trading Jimmer, TRob and Ben within 2 months of the beginning of their careers. I hate to lose value and see an asset rot on the vine. I was shocked, pleasantly so, but still shocked when Geoff actually dumped TRob for something. But at this point Ben has not only been in the league for a year, but we have just totally exposed him to the world's ridicule. If we were hiding him and limiting his stints off the bench or something maybe somebody would buy a narrative of tons of potential, just needs a chance. But instead we featured him, actually cleared the entire position out to feature him some more, eliminated his backup, and just took it on the chin like a bad round for Rocky in order to give him every possible chance. Unfortunately that has given everybody else every possible chance to see what he can('t) do too.


On a more positive note, after 1 preseason game I already feel better about Stauskas than I did about any of the above three at any point in their Kings existence. It really doesn't take as long as Geoff used to make it seem like it did to see what skills a guy has, to see if he knows how to play. And Nik does, without being burdened by positionless relatively unatheltic midgethood like Jimmer was.

Didn't he come in as a "project?" It's not the front office or his fault that Thornton took a dump on the team last year and didn't give much choice about him starting. I don't think exposing him was the intention at the beginning of the year. I don't trust my memory but I seem to recall them wanting him off the bench to come along slowly.

I'm still holding out hope for him and continue to view him as a "project." Projects take time and patience.

 

[Uncia03]

So for those of you who watched the scouting video that I put out there...it was good to see pretty much all of the offensive pluses that I detailed in the video on display in Nik's first game.
He's got a great feel for the game, and even though he's a lights-out shooter, as I demonstrated in the 'Touch' data, isn't remotely a chucker on the offensive end. More often than not he makes the correct read and either moves the ball, makes the proper pass, or looks for a good scoring opportunity.
Also you can tell that he absolutely does need to get stronger both to help his defense and his ability to finish at the rim.
It is funny that he had more blocks and steals in this one game than he did in the full 8 games that I broke down, and though it is summer league where sloppy play is the norm, hopefully it's a sign that the FO is going to be pushing him hard to be the best defender he can be. You can tell that he should end up being an average team defender at his worst once he gets settled, and who knows, could end up being a slight plus team defender. He won't ever be a fantastic iso defender though.

All-in-all I couldn't be happier about how he performed in his first showing.

Unfortunately, as composed and NBA-ready as Nik looked on the court yesterday...Ben's game looked equally dreadful.
I was really hoping to see him coming onto the court with the hard work you know he's been putting in, to look more composed and refined out there...and unfortunately he was just a mess.
And as much as I like the Stauskas pick....he's just going to kill Ben's minutes when we start the season while killing his trade value.
And the idea of losing such a good asset as the #7 pick from last year...it just hurts when as a Franchise you have to scratch and claw your way to getting talent.

So...I really hope that somehow Ben can pull it together, or that if we have the opportunity to bring back an impact player that Ben's potential can be enticing for another team.

No Kings games in summer league today, but I'll be in the gym all day watching the other teams play.

Fun, fun....best week of the year.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

i was disappointed to see jared cunningham at PG because he sure as heck ain't one. bryce cotton on the spurs looked great. i would try to get him.

 

[Albatros]

i was disappointed to see jared cunningham at PG because he sure as heck ain't one. bryce cotton on the spurs looked great. i would try to get him.

I guess thats one way to get IT cheaper.

 

[miltonap]

What to do with Ben...what to do

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

What to do with Ben...what to do

trade his ass for john henson.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I just can't believe the difference between Nik and Ben. It's like one was drafted at the end of the 2nd round and one in the top 10 (and deservedly so). Nik has nerves of steel he isn't afraid of anyone or anything out there on the court. Ben is still lost, and that's with a season of starting under his belt. I am just afraid we start Ben over Nik in order to showcase Ben, but I think that would be to the detriment of the team and it may actually backfire. With Nik you can just see how he would fit into the starting line-up. Just one of those guys that can play with anyone. Post game interview when he was asked what went wrong, he responded with 1) defense sucked 2nd half 2) ball movement stopped 3) no rebounding. Sound familiar? I will consider this season a success if we play good defense and improve ball movement.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The intangible that Nik appears to have, is that he has figured out how to creatively use his skills, on the 'fly' in game situations. One example was his spin move, where he changed hands and got around the defender and to the rim.

Not only does he have a high Bball IQ, but he also has the ability to make the use of this with creativity.

To me it appears that this is what D-Will and Ben lack at this stage. If you haven't figured out how to creatively use skill,....all the athletic ability in the world won't be enough in the NBA

 

[swisshh]

I feel like Ben should accept his limitations and get the most of his current ability. Stop dribbling all the way to the basket. Get an escape dribble for space, but focus on your jumpshot, the off-ball movement and take wide open straight line drives if they are there. If he stuck within his abilities perhaps he'd get more confidence.

 

[pshn80]

What to do with Ben...what to do

As grandpa always said 'everything in moderation'. With Bem, we quietly de-emphasis him in this summer league season,we hope and pray that the good signs continue for Nik, and that with our fingers crossed we can start Nik to begin the season, and if he can't, we find a fill-in starter somewhere, and let Ben come in occasionally off he bench, and thus let the bad water go over the damn and hope for a way to get some value back in a useful trade, sooner or later.

Accept: Ben is not a starter now, McCallum is not a starter now but can work out as a back-up now. Accept: that we need to decide quickly if Nik can start and hold his own at the beginning of the season, and, if not, move to bring in a stop-gap to start until Nik can. Accept: if Nik needs more time, being him along as quickly as possible with Ben being relegated to our third SG. Tough stuff. This team right now is a little better off at PF because we can start JT and expect journeyman performance.

Meantime let's see if we can make useful trade or trades before the season starts.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I'm not going to overreact to one summer league game where Ben showed no improvement from all of his summer work, but it is downright alarming that he looks exactly like he did last Summer League and exactly as he did throughout the year.

If things continue to go south this Summer League, the team needs to simplify the game down to the bare bones for Ben. Catch the ball, shoot it. If you don't have a shot, pass it. Otherwise we could end up seeing his confidence completely shot. What a disaster to have a #7 pick completely flame out of the league as if he was a second rounder.

Williams was out there playing the 4, but he proved why thats an obviously untenable solution for getting him playing time going forward. He doesn't set good screens, he got worked on the boards, he doesn't do the dirty work inside in the paint defensively. All make him obviously a non-starter next to Cousins as a PF. And with Rudy working the SF position, Derrick's utility in a Kings uniform is highly questionable.

Acy on the other hand looked extremely promising. He was the only King to really crash the glass, getting 7 boards in 27 minutes. He blocked shots, set good screens, spaced the floor with his jumper. He was also out there barking at the entire team on defense to get into position. Ultimately, his weaknesses last year were defense and rebounding, which he showed great improvements in last night. He's outmatched as a 6'7 center of course, but at the PF spot he could have some utility next year as a revved up Patrick Patterson type.

Nik was also very good. I'll echo what a lot of people have said about his feel for the game. He has a knack for making the right plays. He didn't get to show off his 3 point shot (his only attempt was a heave on a broken play as the shot clock was expiring), but his midrange game was on point all game. His craftiness off the dribble was also pretty impressive as he was able to get to the basket several times off of curls. He showed nice passing instincts too; 3 assists credited to him but really should have had 5 or 6, where several times he was robbed because of the scrubbiness of our bigs. His defense didn't look like a complete liability and showed he can at least hold the fort, although he did get worked over a couple times by Austin Daye (to be fair Daye is 6'11 and really more of a 3) and was taken to the rack by smaller guards because of his lack of strength and quickness.

The franchise desperately needs Nik to be a contributor with Isaiah's departure, otherwise we are left with a backcourt completely devoid of creativity. I don't expect Ben to struggle as much as he did, but I also don't expect him to have a skills revolution either. McCallum just isn't a creative force, he's going to be a roleplayer. And if the team doesn't want to take a massive step backward without IT, its going to fall mostly on Nik's shoulders.

 

[ElRey]

Everybody is saying Trade Ben this, Trade Ben that. Well the rest of the league are watching these games as well, and right now NOBODY is going to give us anything of value for Ben. Like someone said earlier, Ben was a PROJECT and still is. You might as well just keep him and develop him behind Stauskas. Hopefully one day, he'll turn into a useful player.

 

[Chubbs]

Ben is only slightly more tradeable than Jimmer was. Some people have a very simplistic view of the nba universe. You actually have to have something of value to trade. Right now, we have cousins, rudy on a monster expiring contract, dwill on a smaller expiring, and, um, a ton of 3rd or 4th string undersized PFs.

Not a lot they can do.

I've been a defender of Ben, but this is getting to the point where he really needs to show something. Anything. Right now, he looks to me almost exactly like he did last season in summer. There's was a lot of vomiting in my mouth then, and there still is.

Thank goodness for Nik. He'll be our best guard sometime very soon. He sure was a whole lot better than either Ray or Ben yesterday.

 

[Krunker]

Ben signed a two year contract, so next year is a team option... if he is a total bust there is a little value for some salary coming off the books in a trade or just let him go.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I feel like Ben should accept his limitations and get the most of his current ability. Stop dribbling all the way to the basket. Get an escape dribble for space, but focus on your jumpshot, the off-ball movement and take wide open straight line drives if they are there. If he stuck within his abilities perhaps he'd get more confidence.

he needs to be in a system like san antonio or sloan's jazz offense. this should have been known when they drafted him yet they try to make him into something he isn't comfortable or developed skill in *yet*. that's like putting reke at SF and taking the ball out of his hands. that's his strength. ben needs to run off some screens like reggie miller and just shoot the rock. fill the lanes in transition and learn how to play acceptable D. he'll find those 3 things will help him stay in the league for a long time.


*yet* meaning he may or may never reach. lmao

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I'm not going to overreact to one summer league game where Ben showed no improvement from all of his summer work, but it is downright alarming that he looks exactly like he did last Summer League and exactly as he did throughout the year.

If things continue to go south this Summer League, the team needs to simplify the game down to the bare bones for Ben. Catch the ball, shoot it. If you don't have a shot, pass it. Otherwise we could end up seeing his confidence completely shot. What a disaster to have a #7 pick completely flame out of the league as if he was a second rounder.

Williams was out there playing the 4, but he proved why thats an obviously untenable solution for getting him playing time going forward. He doesn't set good screens, he got worked on the boards, he doesn't do the dirty work inside in the paint defensively. All make him obviously a non-starter next to Cousins as a PF. And with Rudy working the SF position, Derrick's utility in a Kings uniform is highly questionable.

Acy on the other hand looked extremely promising. He was the only King to really crash the glass, getting 7 boards in 27 minutes. He blocked shots, set good screens, spaced the floor with his jumper. He was also out there barking at the entire team on defense to get into position. Ultimately, his weaknesses last year were defense and rebounding, which he showed great improvements in last night. He's outmatched as a 6'7 center of course, but at the PF spot he could have some utility next year as a revved up Patrick Patterson type.

Nik was also very good. I'll echo what a lot of people have said about his feel for the game. He has a knack for making the right plays. He didn't get to show off his 3 point shot (his only attempt was a heave on a broken play as the shot clock was expiring), but his midrange game was on point all game. His craftiness off the dribble was also pretty impressive as he was able to get to the basket several times off of curls. He showed nice passing instincts too; 3 assists credited to him but really should have had 5 or 6, where several times he was robbed because of the scrubbiness of our bigs. His defense didn't look like a complete liability and showed he can at least hold the fort, although he did get worked over a couple times by Austin Daye (to be fair Daye is 6'11 and really more of a 3) and was taken to the rack by smaller guards because of his lack of strength and quickness.

The franchise desperately needs Nik to be a contributor with Isaiah's departure, otherwise we are left with a backcourt completely devoid of creativity. I don't expect Ben to struggle as much as he did, but I also don't expect him to have a skills revolution either. McCallum just isn't a creative force, he's going to be a roleplayer. And if the team doesn't want to take a massive step backward without IT, its going to fall mostly on Nik's shoulders.

there will definitely be more touches for everybody with the pizza guy's departure. i don't think i could've stood another season of him freezing out players for selfish reasons (to get a contract).

it's only one summer league game. we'll see how the rest of the guys progress throughout the summer league. i'm hoping they have more a structured offense this upcoming season instead of all the iso last year.

 

[sdballer]

there will definitely be more touches for everybody with the pizza guy's departure. i don't think i could've stood another season of him freezing out players for selfish reasons (to get a contract).

it's only one summer league game. we'll see how the rest of the guys progress throughout the summer league. i'm hoping they have more a structured offense this upcoming season instead of all the iso last year.

The interesting thing will be to finally see if our offense issues were a result of a shoot first pg or an unimaginative coaching plan.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

my guess is a little of both. i'd like to see some of the offense initiated through cuz in the hi post. he has good passing skills. it should be interesting now with collison and nik in the backcourt.

 

[dbfish]

def see the Peja in Nick

Just based on the first preseason game. STAUSKAS is a player and Ben is a dud.

 

[Albatros]

In a sadistic way I'd kinda like nik to have a bad game tomorrow and Ben to be really amazing and see the comments.

 

[whozit]

In a sadistic way I'd kinda like nik to have a bad game tomorrow and Ben to be really amazing and see the comments.

I'm not sure if would be sadistic if it both lowers the expectations on Nik and lowers the angst against Ben.

 

[Monster]

The reason we lost yesterday is simple.

The spurs started to score a bit when Nik went to the bench. Our guards responded by trying to "be the man" and do it on their own. They forced stuff which led to bad shots and turnovers.

Nik came back in and you could see the other guards continue the hero ball. The only time the offense really did anything with Nik after that is when the ball was forced into his hands.

Nik made a couple mistakes and a couple of his passes were dropped or fumbled and scoring chances were wasted. The team seemed to lose energy by the 4th Q, too.

I put the collapse on lack of team chemistry and trust. You guys have to admit, that was a beautiful first half. I suspect by the 3rd or 4th game, most issues will be gone.

Preseason is a different matter. Interested to see how gay and cousins gel with nik and darren. That might take a month or two.

 

[rainmaker]

I'm not going to overreact to one summer league game where Ben showed no improvement from all of his summer work, but it is downright alarming that he looks exactly like he did last Summer League and exactly as he did throughout the year.

What's extremely worrying with Ben is that his off season is already half over and he hasn't changed one iota. Same player as a year ago today for the most part.

Our season ended in mid-April. Ben has had roughly 10 weeks to add to and work on his game. There's no difference yet. After summer league, it's basically another 9-10 weeks until training camp starts. If he didn't add anything in the first 10 weeks, I don't see how it's all that likely he does add in the next 10 weeks. And that's it, there's the off season.

I would have thought he'd have come out in summer league, pissed off we drafted Stauskas and with a point to prove. We got anything but that.

This isn't a Jimmer situation either where he was older and athletically limited. Ben is young enough to improve a decent amount and has the athleticism. Given he really hasn't improved over the last calendar year, I really have to question his work ethic and commitment to getting in the film room.

 

[kingsboi]

Well...based on one summer league game, Ben looks the same to me, Nik understands the game, he makes the right plays. Acy was unconcious at first then came down to earth. Brooks is blah. Ray was a bit disappointing too and Williams the judge is still out on him just as everyone else.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Everybody is saying Trade Ben this, Trade Ben that. Well the rest of the league are watching these games as well, and right now NOBODY is going to give us anything of value for Ben. Like someone said earlier, Ben was a PROJECT and still is. You might as well just keep him and develop him behind Stauskas. Hopefully one day, he'll turn into a useful player.

I agree to a certain extent,...however, how did we end up with D-Will after he had struggled in Minnesota? We took a chance on him and traded the first defensive specialist that we had in a long time in Moute. Teams will take risks on young talented athletes, because some of them do eventually come around and improve. Many also don't, which is why there's risk involved

 

[Bricklayer]

In a sadistic way I'd kinda like nik to have a bad game tomorrow and Ben to be really amazing and see the comments.

Normally I would say people are making too much of one game's results, but I've mentioned before summer league really isn't about results. Its about seeing what a guy's skills look like.

I actually think Ben is one of the last guys who can get mad/go into show 'em mode and turn that into a positive. The reason? He has no ball skills. So if he goes into get mad/show 'em mode all it results is in him forcing and turning the ball over. His best shot of the night was a simple catch and shoot three from the corner. That's what he can do, and there's no way to press that issue. In fact if anything its purely a roleplayer thing. Let the game and shot come to you. Unfortunately when you are drafted #7 in the draft just trying to be a poor man's Anthony Morrow isn't going to satisfy.

Ben could have a good game tomorrow, although its notable how Stauskas's presence caused him to be deemphasized while they were both on the floor. He had 1 or 2 last summer league. Or if I recall more correctly had 1 or 2 good halves. Get hot, start hitting some long bombs. But it won't change the underlying problem, which is a skills problem.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well...based on one summer league game, Ben looks the same to me, Nik understands the game, he makes the right plays. Acy was unconcious at first then came down to earth. Brooks is blah. Ray was a bit disappointing too and Williams the judge is still out on him just as everyone else.

Given how many minutes we gave to many of those guys last year, it begins to illustrate why we didn't win more games, 3 20pt scorers or no.

Ben and DWill remain inefficient atheltes, too small for the positions their skills dictate, without the handle or creative ability of wings. Acy has the right attitude, but a lot of that is for show. He'll block that shot enthusiastically..but he's only going to block that one shot, not 3 or 4. He'll grab each board he gets with gusto, but in the end he's 6'7" and he is going to get 6 or 7, not 10 or 12. He's another guy who's skills force him to play up from what his size dictates. Ray was a second round pick, so hey, just getting a 2nd round pick who sticks is a decent haul. But his command of the game remains shaky, his shot comes and goes, and when pressed he resorts to 1 on 1play rather than setting people up. We even got a little Jared Cunningham action at the PG, and outside of a single nice play slipping the ball to Stauskas on a scramble play, you can see that he's just not an effective player at the PG. In short a large chunk of one of the weaker benches in the league was pretty much who we thought they were. Undersized, lacking passing and ball skills, prone to defensive breakdowns, getting pounded on the glass, and 1 on 1 play when pressed.

Like I said previously in this thread, the good news is the new guy walked in from a different script and showed sophistication in his SG play, a position he's the right size for too. He didn't look dominant, and I do not project him as a star. But he looked more comfortable than any of the others in his very first game, and like a guy who might contribute just by being smart and being able to think the game along with Cousins and Gay. If he just gives you 14-3-3 while making the smart play half a dozen times a game, its a real boost to a team's prospects if you a ready have your stars/shot munchers lined up. He made the game look simple and obvious, whereas the rest of our numbnuts were doing everything possible to make it look as hard as possible.

 

[sdballer]

Given how many minutes we gave to many of those guys last year, it begins to illustrate why we didn't win more games, 3 20pt scorers or no.

Ben and DWill remain inefficient atheltes, too small for the positions their skills dictate, without the handle or creative ability of wings. Acy has the right attitude, but a lot of that is for show. He'll block that shot enthusiastically..but he's only going to block that one shot, not 3 or 4. He'll grab each board he gets with gusto, but in the end he's 6'7" and he is going to get 6 or 7, not 10 or 12. He's another guy who's skills force him to play up from what his size dictates. Ray was a second round pick, so hey, just getting a 2nd round pick who sticks is a decent haul. But his command of the game remains shaky, his shot comes and goes, and when pressed he resorts to 1 on 1play rather than setting people up. We even got a little Jared Cunningham action at the PG, and outside of a single nice play slipping the ball to Stauskas on a scramble play, you can see that he's just not an effective player at the PG. In short a large chunk of one of the weaker benches in the league was pretty much who we thought they were. Undersized, lacking passing and ball skills, prone to defensive breakdowns, getting pounded on the glass, and 1 on 1 play when pressed.

Like I said previously in this thread, the good news is the new guy walked in from a different script and showed sophistication in his SG play, a position he's the right size for too. He didn't look dominant, and I do not project him as a star. But he looked more comfortable than any of the others in his very first game, and like a guy who might contribute just by being smart and being able to think the game along with Cousins and Gay. If he just gives you 14-3-3 while making the smart play half a dozen times a game, its a real boost to a team's prospects if you a ready have your stars/shot munchers lined up. He made the game look simple and obvious, whereas the rest of our numbnuts were doing everything possible to make it look as hard as possible.

It's what troubles me so much about pda's ability to evaluate talent. Clearly he doesn't respect the defensive side of the court but even a number of the offense first guys he's brought in don't have the basic skills to make a free flowing offensive system work. So he brings in pieces that don't work on either level and these weren't surprising things even.

 

[ElRey]

It's what troubles me so much about pda's ability to evaluate talent. Clearly he doesn't respect the defensive side of the court but even a number of the offense first guys he's brought in don't have the basic skills to make a free flowing offensive system work. So he brings in pieces that don't work on either level and these weren't surprising things even.

that reminds me, did our front office even workout Ben prior to the draft? I don't think they did... I remember Phoenix working him out and being scared off