The Official NBA Draft Day Thread 2014 Edition
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Maybe....what would worry me is if, as I believe, Smart becomes an all-star type or at least an upper echelon pg and we make this deal, it doesn't help our cap at all. Trading a cost controlled rookie contract for a larger one when the ability level of the guys may be similar......but in the end if we have either guy, it would be an awesome upgrade.
I do like the Smart mentality of take no prisoners.....would match Cuz in intensity and we could use that....Rondo brings the same thing.
If Gordon is there, I really like him but I just trade down for multiple picks
I do like the Smart mentality of take no prisoners.....would match Cuz in intensity and we could use that....Rondo brings the same thing.
If Gordon is there, I really like him but I just trade down for multiple picks
according to sources, the kings have had at least three tangible offers for the #8 pick already. now, we don't know whether those offers represented value in return, but the way the rumors have characterized the trade talks, it sounds like it was merely up to the kings to pull the trigger. if i had to guess, i'd say the front office has been reluctant to include ben mclemore in possible trades...
Exactly, from what we've heard from the reports if they are true at all is that it's the Kings who could have made these things happen, but didn't.
I agree with your assumption about Ben McLemore as well, I'm not sure they would trade him for anything at this point. I know you and I have debated about this before and I'm not saying I disagree with you. McLemore may be best served as a "3-and-D" player. I'm just saying that I don't think the front office views him that way and the reluctance to trade him may indicate that. I think they may see all of that talent and think that he has superstar potential. Kobe Bryant had a tough first couple of years too, but they kept playing him anyway. Just keep playing McLemore and maybe he becomes Bryant. Obviously unlikely, but they may just be putting their hopes on that.
I agree with your assumption about Ben McLemore as well, I'm not sure they would trade him for anything at this point. I know you and I have debated about this before and I'm not saying I disagree with you. McLemore may be best served as a "3-and-D" player. I'm just saying that I don't think the front office views him that way and the reluctance to trade him may indicate that. I think they may see all of that talent and think that he has superstar potential. Kobe Bryant had a tough first couple of years too, but they kept playing him anyway. Just keep playing McLemore and maybe he becomes Bryant. Obviously unlikely, but they may just be putting their hopes on that.
i tend to agree. mclemore was their first acquisition as the new guys in town. i think there's some sentimentality there, as well as some stubbornness and a fear of being wrong. i think the kings are gonna clutch tightly to ben until he either pans out or bottoms out entirely. i'm only hoping that the former is what comes to pass. i remain convinced that mclemore's ceiling is as a "3 and D" player, and it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that he achieves eventual success in such a role. but i wouldn't bet the farm on it, nor would i hold him out of potential trades that can improve the team immediately...
http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/25/6512543/above-all-else-kings-priority.html
Shooting and versatilty is what PDA wants. Doesn't sound to me that Gordon and Smart fit that bill. Unless it's all smoke. We'll see.
Shooting and versatilty is what PDA wants. Doesn't sound to me that Gordon and Smart fit that bill. Unless it's all smoke. We'll see.
I'm on record as saying I'm not a big fan of Smart's game. Well, let me back that up. I love his defense, love his size and I like his intensity. What I'm concerned about are his shot selection especially given his poor shooting percentages and more importantly whether or not he's really a PG who can run an offense. Payton was an even worse shooter on the college level but there's zero doubt that he's a PG where I worry that Smart is a combo guard or an outright undersized SG.
That said, the big reason I'd be okay with the Kings drafting him is that he seems to have drive and a fire in his belly. He's not Tyreke. Tyreke has much more wiggle and an otherworldly handle for his size. In many ways, Evans is just flat out more gifted/talented than Smart. But Tyreke's flaw is that he doesn't seem to have that burning desire to be great or a will to win. Smart does. Whether he really is able to be a PG or not, I think Marcus Smart will reach his potential. And that makes him a pretty safe bet at worst and a very good prospect at best.
I'm not as high as most on Parker, Randle or Vonleh. To me the fear with Randle is that he can't play his style in the NBA and his whole appeal is offensively as a beast close to the basket. Parker could be good but I don't think he's on the level of Melo or Pierce. I think he'll struggle a bit to get his shot off and won't give much defensively. Vonleh to me is just strange. 6'9.5 in shoes with a ridiculous wingspan, NBA ready body and a 37" vertical and yet he plays so ground bound and with an old man type game. His wingspan is only an inch and a half less than DMC's ridiculous measurement and his standing and max verticals are nearly 10" higher and yet he gets fewer blocks (and for that matter steals) than DMC per minute. Vonleh has elite measurements and (more importantly) a good motor so I don't think he'll bust but he doesn't play like a guy with athletic gifts. He plays more like a David West type.
Can Aaron Gordon be Shawn Marion? That's got to be the hope. But Marion put up 19 and 9 in his freshman year while averaging 2 blocks and 2.5 steals. Maybe the difference can be chalked up to playing in a weaker conference but the glaring thing to me is that despite his broken looking jumper, Marion shot 73% from the line to Gordon's 42%. That gives me real concern about his ability to improve his shooting. Because for Gordon to be more than a high motor defender and effort rebounder he'll need to be able to knock down shots on offense.
Here's my outlook on it though. If the team drafts Payton you can resign IT. Yeah, maybe you overpay at $7 million a year or so but with Payton on a rookie deal you've only got $11 million tied up in the PG spot (including McCallum) whereas trading for Rondo and re-signing IT means $21 million or so invested at PG. IT can start until/if? Payton unseats him.
And it's not that far fetched that he'd start right out of the gate anyway. Yeah, he played in a weaker conference but Payton has 3 years of starting in college to Smart's two and I fully expect Marcus Smart to start next year.
That said, the big reason I'd be okay with the Kings drafting him is that he seems to have drive and a fire in his belly. He's not Tyreke. Tyreke has much more wiggle and an otherworldly handle for his size. In many ways, Evans is just flat out more gifted/talented than Smart. But Tyreke's flaw is that he doesn't seem to have that burning desire to be great or a will to win. Smart does. Whether he really is able to be a PG or not, I think Marcus Smart will reach his potential. And that makes him a pretty safe bet at worst and a very good prospect at best.
I'm not as high as most on Parker, Randle or Vonleh. To me the fear with Randle is that he can't play his style in the NBA and his whole appeal is offensively as a beast close to the basket. Parker could be good but I don't think he's on the level of Melo or Pierce. I think he'll struggle a bit to get his shot off and won't give much defensively. Vonleh to me is just strange. 6'9.5 in shoes with a ridiculous wingspan, NBA ready body and a 37" vertical and yet he plays so ground bound and with an old man type game. His wingspan is only an inch and a half less than DMC's ridiculous measurement and his standing and max verticals are nearly 10" higher and yet he gets fewer blocks (and for that matter steals) than DMC per minute. Vonleh has elite measurements and (more importantly) a good motor so I don't think he'll bust but he doesn't play like a guy with athletic gifts. He plays more like a David West type.
Can Aaron Gordon be Shawn Marion? That's got to be the hope. But Marion put up 19 and 9 in his freshman year while averaging 2 blocks and 2.5 steals. Maybe the difference can be chalked up to playing in a weaker conference but the glaring thing to me is that despite his broken looking jumper, Marion shot 73% from the line to Gordon's 42%. That gives me real concern about his ability to improve his shooting. Because for Gordon to be more than a high motor defender and effort rebounder he'll need to be able to knock down shots on offense.
Here's my outlook on it though. If the team drafts Payton you can resign IT. Yeah, maybe you overpay at $7 million a year or so but with Payton on a rookie deal you've only got $11 million tied up in the PG spot (including McCallum) whereas trading for Rondo and re-signing IT means $21 million or so invested at PG. IT can start until/if? Payton unseats him.
And it's not that far fetched that he'd start right out of the gate anyway. Yeah, he played in a weaker conference but Payton has 3 years of starting in college to Smart's two and I fully expect Marcus Smart to start next year.
Fortunately the Kings have multiple choices in picks and trades and with Petey in control, I suspect they will make the best decision. I do NOT think it will mean unloading Ben. I don't think this attitude will be an ego thing or anything of the sort but a basketball decision. There is no telling what Ben's upside is but it could be pretty darn high. This is simple minded but he has it all at 6'5" except his shot doesn't fall. I dare anyone to tell me that it never will fall and why not. He has a picture perfect release and I think his problems is more a matter of jitters than anything else. I certainly wouldn't unload him after one year and if we thought so little of him already, what on earth could we get for him?
I'm very disappointed that you (Tetsijin) have us passing on Egg Nog for the all-too-showy Rocky Road. Egg Nog is fundamental; it's the type of pick Popovich would make without blinking an eye, knowing it would step up whenever it was necessary. Rocky Road is way too conflicted, with the ingredients clashing with each other oft-times instead of working together seamlessly like Egg Nog.
The thing is having watched a lot of games that Marcus Smart has played and having read a lot of scouting reports on Elfrid Payton (Not as good as watching games, so my knowledge is more limited) they seem to have very similar playing styles, they just do it their own way. They are both tall PGs who create well for their teammates and play great defense. Their shots are both a work in progress. Smart played against much better competition, but Payton is more of a traditional PG and even though his shot is below average he doesn't take a lot of bad shots which is why his percentage isn't bad.
A lot of recent mock drafts have Payton in the middle of the first round, especially if the Lakers take Embiid or Randle. Smart probably won't be around in the middle of the first round. I always want to look for value and if we could trade down and get Payton and another player or two I think that would help more than just getting Smart who may end up not being better anyway.
A lot of recent mock drafts have Payton in the middle of the first round, especially if the Lakers take Embiid or Randle. Smart probably won't be around in the middle of the first round. I always want to look for value and if we could trade down and get Payton and another player or two I think that would help more than just getting Smart who may end up not being better anyway.
Actually I think it would help us keep Thomas if we draft a PG. Right now if I had to guess I would say his biggest suitor is us. If we draft a PG his leverage in the market drops significantly and if you believe recent reports there isn't a lot of demand on the open market for him right now anyway, $4 million to $5 million at the most. If we could get him back at that amount then we have a quality sixth man at the right price.
Personally, I love Payton's defense. Really advanced, really disruptive.
However, I'm pretty cold on his ability on offense in the NBA. I'm just not seeing it. Smart has issues with his shot, but he can get it off, especially late in the clock. I think having Payton go through the learning curve of the NBA will take a few years and he will never be an option at the end of the shot clock, which is a big deal with only 24 secs.
His shot is really really broken. But that D is special. I wouldn't draft him at 8 over Smart. No way.
However, I'm pretty cold on his ability on offense in the NBA. I'm just not seeing it. Smart has issues with his shot, but he can get it off, especially late in the clock. I think having Payton go through the learning curve of the NBA will take a few years and he will never be an option at the end of the shot clock, which is a big deal with only 24 secs.
His shot is really really broken. But that D is special. I wouldn't draft him at 8 over Smart. No way.
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