[Grades] Grades v. Wizards 2/9/2014

What is best in life?

  • Ice cream!

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Chocolate!

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • Pretty girls

    Votes: 15 32.6%
  • Pretty boys

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Kings win!

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • Money

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • The open steppe, a fleet horse, a falcon at your wrist, and the wind in your hair...

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women

    Votes: 14 30.4%

  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .

Glenn

Hall of Famer
It will be "interesting" to see what kind of spin they put on their commentary, if that trade does happen
To be fair, they didn't say they wanted to trade IT BUT YOU DON'T SAY THAT ABOUT A GUY ON YOUR ROSTER. Was I shouting? You do not tell a guy he is on his way out the door or his mood might shift. Oh, wait he was nasty in the last game. Maybe he knows something. Anyway, making it public that they want a more traditional pg can't sit well with IT OR Jerry. It implies they are not content with their starter. Can anyone deny that?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Apparently there are brilliant bulbs in the FO as a media report said that the Kings are trying to trade IT for a more traditional pg. Don't have a clue why, do you? Must be a mistake on the team's part to not see the skills IT brings to the Kings.
I actually interpreted those reports to just as likely be us looking for a pass first backup, or maybe platoon guard. Who knows though.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
I actually interpreted those reports to just as likely be us looking for a pass first backup, or maybe platoon guard. Who knows though.
Really? Granted I have inserted a whole lot of wishful thinking into my interpretation but a move to get a backup pg seems so wimpy.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
I don't want to speak for anybody else, but from my point of view, I would say that what has frustrated me greatly about a large number of the last two months' worth of posts is that people dislike him to a magnitude greatly out of proportion to his basketball skills (or lack thereof). Not that there's anything personal there, just that it's so disproportionate. Why? I don't know. Is it an overreaction to the few die-hard IT fans (most of whom seem to have wandered off, for some bizarre reason)? Maybe. Is it backlash against Jerry, who is paid to say nice things about him (and the rest of the team)? For some, apparently. Has it spiraled out of control? In my opinion, yes.
And what, in your opinion, would be an appropriate level of criticism?
 
It will be "interesting" to see what kind of spin they put on their commentary, if that trade does happen
I actually heard Grant today say that Isaiah Thomas is complaining to the refs too much. i was blown away with surprise. Although he ranted about Cousins yelling at Thornton, but didn't mention the fact that Isaiah yells at teammates every game after letting his man burn him.....

Also, i notice Isaiah only has 5 less Technical Fouls this year than DMC. Thats pretty remarkable considering how many of DeMarcus' T's are just reputation T's, and then also factor in that he has had a few that weren't arguing (Taunting, shoving a player, double-tech's, etc)
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
i think i figured out why the team was so sluggish!

<snip>
You know, for as much as you talk about Thomas' business manager allegedly "stalking" you on Twitter, you seem to do your fair share of "stalking," yourself. I mean, I can't speak for anyone else, but I could give a rat's ass about what's going on with Isaiah Thomas' Twitter account.
 
You know, for as much as you talk about Thomas' business manager allegedly "stalking" you on Twitter, you seem to do your fair share of "stalking," yourself. I mean, I can't speak for anyone else, but I could give a rat's ass about what's going on with Isaiah Thomas' Twitter account.
what do you mean stalking, i follow nothing but Kings and NBA related twitter accounts. so even though i am not following Isaiah, i am bound to see some of his tweets when they are retweeted by Kings fans and players and even the Kings official account. The 40lb cake one definitely seemed worthy of sharing on here
 
Really? Granted I have inserted a whole lot of wishful thinking into my interpretation but a move to get a backup pg seems so wimpy.
I read it similar to Brick. More along the lines that we like IT but would like to get a pass first PG and have IT return to his role of a 6th man dynamic guard to push the pace. Suits his game better and suits us better as a team.
 
Fine, let me re-phrase: why do you think we're interested?
It was a joke, the team has looked extremely lethargic in the last 2 games (the Boston game being on Isaiah's birthday), so a 40lb Bday cake for Isaiah is a good joke explanation of their sluggish play. Other people seemed to be interested by it. If you weren't you could have moved right past that post without commenting on it.

why do you find it necessary to dissect each one of my comments and then question me on them?
 
To be fair, they didn't say they wanted to trade IT BUT YOU DON'T SAY THAT ABOUT A GUY ON YOUR ROSTER. Was I shouting? You do not tell a guy he is on his way out the door or his mood might shift. Oh, wait he was nasty in the last game. Maybe he knows something. Anyway, making it public that they want a more traditional pg can't sit well with IT OR Jerry. It implies they are not content with their starter. Can anyone deny that?
Well IT is playing about 40 minutes a game, so to conclude that attempting to obtain another point guard as a dig against IT is a reach. Maybe he was nasty last game because the team played horribly? I guess if you are IT, you better not shown your emotions or it will be misconstrued.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Why do you find it necessary to dissect each one of my comments and then question me on them?
I'm trying to parse out your intent. You seem, at times, to have an agenda.

EDIT - Also, you may be conflating response to your post to "interest." There are many people here who will respond to whatever they see posted here, as well as those who can't pass up a good dogpile (and I admit to being counted among the latter), that aren't necessarily interested. An interested person would seek this stuff out.
 
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Glenn

Hall of Famer
I read it similar to Brick. More along the lines that we like IT but would like to get a pass first PG and have IT return to his role of a 6th man dynamic guard to push the pace. Suits his game better and suits us better as a team.
I believe brick said we would get a backup pass first pg and I still think that is a bit wimpy. If we got a starter to put IT as a 6th man, I'd be excited.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
And what, in your opinion, would be an appropriate level of criticism?
I think Hadlowe did a very fine job of that upthread:

Game threads are a bad place to get people's rational opinion about a player. Every time IT dribbles 20 seconds off the shot clock and hoists a contested jumper, he's the worst player in the world. Any time Jimmer turns the ball over, he's the worst player in the world.

The majority of the non-game thread posts I see are railing against the fit and demeanor of IT as starting point guard, and not his overall skillset. IT is one of the few guards in the league who can score from anywhere on the court and he is a decent if not exceptional guard at creating for his teammates. What he is not is deferential, savvy about breaking down opposing teams' defense, clock management, or individual or team defense. That skillset and mentality is fantastic in a sixth man, 20 minutes per game gunner, and just death to team chemistry for a starting point guard.

Look at Kyrie in Cleveland. He is a very skilled scorer and a pretty good distributor. Yet, the entire team is breaking down because he and Dion Waiters just do not share the ball. Those two take turns pounding the ball looking for a seam to the interior or jacking up shots instead of getting their teammates involved. What was supposed to be a playoff push has turned into yet another lottery year because the guy handling the ball is playing for the guy handling the ball.

I don't want that to be the future of the Kings. We already had a minor version of that in the Tyreke 1-4 flat/Thornton chucks a three years. With a very good passing big man in Cousins and a decent passer in Gay, we need crisp ball movement to pressure the opposing defense. That isn't happening right now and the first breakdown is in the guy bringing the ball up the court 9 times out of 10.
Criticism doesn't have to be a feeding frenzy. I've seen blogs go down that path, and it's not pretty. I don't want it to happen here.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
I think Hadlowe did a very fine job of that upthread:



Criticism doesn't have to be a feeding frenzy. I've seen blogs go down that path, and it's not pretty. I don't want it to happen here.
I guess my objection to your post is that, with the exception of a small handful of blowhards with an agenda, nearly all of the criticism of Thomas looks like that, from my perspective. I'm not seeing this so-called "feeding frenzy."
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
According to Jason Jones:

Malone knows this kind of game is not the norm. And he also might be speaking up more when Cousins is hit as much as he was tonight...
...“...Could there have been some more foul calls during that game? Maybe," (said Malone). "Maybe I have to do a better job for him and fight his case. This has not been DeMarcus, this is the exception and I know he’ll bounce back.”
I think I'd like to see Malone object a bit more when Cousins is being pummeled.

...“(Malone) approached me after the game about it and I respect him for it,” Cousins said. “It was a rough night, but it’s good to know that coach has your back.”

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/02/09/61...ight-have.html#mi_rss=Kings/NBA#storylink=cpy
 
I guess my objection to your post is that, with the exception of a small handful of blowhards with an agenda, nearly all of the criticism of Thomas looks like that, from my perspective. I'm not seeing this so-called "feeding frenzy."
Eye of the beholder, I suppose.



It's more apparent in game threads where every little mistake is the end of the world because the game is still on the line. Post-game analysis is usually more fair.

IT shoulders a lot of criticism of late 1) because the team stopped progressing after the Houston game that shall not be named, 2) he has been trending more toward chucking and less toward playmaking, and 3) losing is hard on a fanbase, players, coaches, and the natural instinct is to look for someone to pin the blame to.

Coming from an unrepentant Jimmer fan (awkward, slow shooters unite!), I can sympathize with IT guys who feel their guy doesn't get a fair shake. The tough to accept fact is that posters on this board are generally pretty savvy and when a lot of criticism gets flung toward a guy that you like to watch play, it likely means that there is a pretty significant fault with the guy you're rooting for.
 
Yes, this is our #1 issue right now. We've some got talent and the record should be a lot better than it is currently.

But we do not have a team, we have players. These guys gel like oil and vinegar... and I think more than the losses, this for me is the hardest thing about the team. They lack a common focus, dislike each other, don't trust each other, and some players actually prefer different playing styles. I hope we can unload the cancers off the team, and get some players who can really like each other. Boogie needs to grow up too. I want to see a team win together and lose together. A team that the entire bench jumps up and roots for their teammates, who is visibly happy when they are in the lead like the old Kings, who is always looking to make the extra pass and get everyone involved, etc.

This team doesn't care of they win or not because they are not a team. Their idea of winning is to see how many shots they can jack up so they can improve their stats. Instead of hating to lose, they are thinking, wow I got my 30 points tonight. I was badass.

Not even Malone can fix the issues we have currently. We need to trade players and hope for a good 2014 draft.
You’re right, we don’t have a team - we have a bunch of different players that are different and don’t entirely match. I’m with you, I want a team that also wins together and looses together. It’s been so long that I’ve felt that way, I just wish that we will somehow get that type of team back. The sad part is, I’ve seen this team have moments of jelling together - playing together, but then we get games like this.

I feel your frustration... but I don't think we're ever going to be a very good passing team. Not under Malone. He simply does not have the offensive creativity that it takes to have a team that shares the ball beautifully and plays what you refer to as team ball. How am I so sure? Because I look at the offensive sets that he runs and there is simply no effort/ brilliance Now he's a step up from Keith Smart, but that doesn't say a lot. Maybe, just maybe, there might be a slim chance that we can get decent ball movement if we manage to get someone like Rondo, but I still don't think we'll see the kind of ball movement that the Spurs display on a regular basis, or that the Wizards did in the first half, and of course, nothing close to what we were accustomed to back in the good days.

Now that said, that doesn't mean that I don't think Malone is a good coach. I'm simply saying his strengths don't lie on the offensive end of the floor, and that's perfectly fine with me. The Pacers really don't move the ball very well. Nor do the Thunder. But they play good defense and have a clear hierarchy on offense that accompanies the star talents that they do have, and that's far more than enough to make them perennial championship contenders.

I can't find a clip of the play we used to run with Cousins and Udrih/Evans.. but we got open backdoor layups almost every game on those plays
I hope you’re wrong about never becoming a good passing team. I’m sick of isolation plays, one-on-one plays, get mine plays. I’m tired of seeing us stand still…I know what you’re saying about Malone and his offensive vision, but I hope with the addition (hopefully) of different players, we’ll be able to execute more off the ball movement and passing ability…Also, we need a few easy point plays in our playbook.

I think really the main thing is to find players that will mesh together - easier said than done, but it’s a job the front office will have to figure out. Chemistry is so important & we’re missing some of that. I look at our 2002 team, the Lakers during those time, the Jordan Bulls, the current and previous Spurs, the current Pacers, and a few other teams and one of the biggest things that has always been at the forefront (besides actual talent) is Chemistry. We need every guy on our team to mesh with one another.

We’ll see…Hopefully Pete has something up his sleeve before the trade deadline, there’s definitely players that need a change, and we need to find a balanced roster.
 
I think really the main thing is to find players that will mesh together - easier said than done, but it’s a job the front office will have to figure out. Chemistry is so important & we’re missing some of that. I look at our 2002 team, the Lakers during those time, the Jordan Bulls, the current and previous Spurs, the current Pacers, and a few other teams and one of the biggest things that has always been at the forefront (besides actual talent) is Chemistry. We need every guy on our team to mesh with one another.
That point cannot be emphasized enough. That's more than just meshing complementary skill sets with each other. It's getting personalities that either co-exist naturally (Pippen/Jordan) or create useful tension to make each other better (Shaq/Kobe). It's something that I see hints of in Cousins and Gay, Cousins and Fredette (on occasions when they play together), and few others on the team. When you can find that group of five to eight guys with chemistry of both personality and fit on the court, that's when you see the magic of the 2002 Kings, where the team just clicks in a way that almost defies description. Indiana has that this year. Dallas had it in 2011. San Antonio has had it since 1998 because Popovich is a warlock.
 
I'm trying to parse out your intent. You seem, at times, to have an agenda.
No, no agenda. Just sharing stuff that i think is on topic with things others have shared.

I like Isaiah Thomas and i hope he is still on this team next year (As a 6th man). It's just that, like many others, I can't stand watching him "lead" this team
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Did the team win?
And that's what some people don't understand even though Brickie and others have pointed it out. When IT is the one doing all the scoring, we simply do not win. He's like Ron Artest (in that regard and that regard only). RonRon had a lot of value but ONLY when he didn't convince himself that he and he alone could score all the points. Ron finally got a ring with a team because he wasn't the first option OR the second option and wasn't allowed to be. That's where IT is at. He can be valuable to the Kings but not as the starting point guard or end-of-the-game go-to guy. As long as he's in that role, he and the Kings are going to be unsuccessful.
 
And that's what some people don't understand even though Brickie and others have pointed it out. When IT is the one doing all the scoring, we simply do not win.
Speaking of this, does anyone know the teams record when Isaiah shoots 18 or more shots? i heard the other day they are 0-? in those games
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Speaking of this, does anyone know the teams record when Isaiah shoots 18 or more shots? i heard the other day they are 0-? in those games
I'm too lazy to go through the threads right now but this has been discussed several times. Maybe somebody else can remember where...