I'm actually sliding towards your way of looking at things. Perhaps IT needs some time. Perhaps he needs experience in the NBA. Perhaps he needs experience with this team and it's revolving cast of characters. I think he is improving. Last year I thought he brought chaos to the offense. This year, just an accasional brain fart. I wish he was taller.
[Grades] Grades v. Spurs 12/29/2013
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Since being inserted into starting lineup IT is putting up Curry-esque type numbers. He is actually shooting 3's at a higher percentage than Curry as well. This is his third season, and his first month really as THE PG of this team(splitting time with Tyreke and Vasquez before that). He is going to figure out how to balance his scoring and getting others involved. I think the core of some IT detractors is that they felt he held Tyreke back, when in fact IT has turned out to be the better player overall and you could argue Tyreke was holding IT back.
I'm really curious what the market will be for the little man. And I maintain he has no interest in backing anyone up here or elsewhere. And this lineup is a mess, so he has to go back to the bench or gay has to go. Gay getting shut out with no shots the last 6 mins last night is a major problem.
Or maybe they just need time to gel. I don't know. Right now though, it's a lot of stats with few wins.
As for being better than tyreke, I guess we will let the market speak.
Or maybe they just need time to gel. I don't know. Right now though, it's a lot of stats with few wins.
As for being better than tyreke, I guess we will let the market speak.
Please, please don't go there. Just an FYI:
That said, let's focus on IT. Two things one must notice.
1. He's a scorer. Yes. Some of it is because he can, but much of it is because he must. Look up and down our roster. There are only two other players who can get a shot on their own. Those two are bona-fide stars. (It's Gay and Cousins, if you must ask.) Nobody, and I mean nobody, else on this team is capable of getting points. What does it mean? It means IT doesn't have to defer to anyone, although there are times during each game when he definitely should. He gets tunnel vision. He wants to be both Batman and Robin, but he's not. We have two stars who should be featured. It's been posted, and it bears repeating, that scoring is not what this team needs. Defensively, teams are not planning towards him. They just aren't focusing (or aren't caring) about shutting down IT. They didn't last year, they aren't this year. He doesn't create chaos in a defensive game plan like Cousins does. We have players that are better suited to break down defenses, but don't often get the ball in crunch time because IT wants to be "the guy", which is when teams finally lock down. His ability to get points, really isn't the issue though, is it? No, it's:
2. Defense. Ugh. Many say, "yeah, but he's great on offense." Last I recalled, defense was 50% of the game. Again, it's half of the game. I've always coached it as such. IT has no desire to work on that end, and when he does, he is limited by his size. AI (who apparently IT wants to be) was feisty on defense. He got into people early and often. IT is passive in that regard. This is where I feel he hurts the team. Yes, he hurts the team defensively. At 50% of an NBA game, he IS a weak link. Other teams know there's no resistance at the point of attack, so they're getting to the next level with ease.
If you know you it takes you longer to do a homework assignment, you start on it earlier. You know your weakness, and you try and overcompensate. It's what we've done. On defense, IT has to know his limitations, which means you should see him working harder to try and deny penetration. He has to know by now the screen is coming. Every. Single. Time. He has yet to adjust. He gets passive, which leaves the rest of the team in the lurch.
So where does that put us? We've got a guy who can score, but needs the ball in his hands at all time to do so. He's not a catch and shoot player, nor is he best suited to run a half-court offense. If we are (and IMO this is a misguided move) to continue to start IT at the PG position, we absolutely need a rim protector, and a lockdown defender at the 2. If we can get someone at least defensively mediocre to start at the PG position, then IT's long term value to this team then becomes that much better.
And with that, I think I'm going to bow out of IT arguments for a while. Don't take the silence to mean that I agree.
That said, let's focus on IT. Two things one must notice.
1. He's a scorer. Yes. Some of it is because he can, but much of it is because he must. Look up and down our roster. There are only two other players who can get a shot on their own. Those two are bona-fide stars. (It's Gay and Cousins, if you must ask.) Nobody, and I mean nobody, else on this team is capable of getting points. What does it mean? It means IT doesn't have to defer to anyone, although there are times during each game when he definitely should. He gets tunnel vision. He wants to be both Batman and Robin, but he's not. We have two stars who should be featured. It's been posted, and it bears repeating, that scoring is not what this team needs. Defensively, teams are not planning towards him. They just aren't focusing (or aren't caring) about shutting down IT. They didn't last year, they aren't this year. He doesn't create chaos in a defensive game plan like Cousins does. We have players that are better suited to break down defenses, but don't often get the ball in crunch time because IT wants to be "the guy", which is when teams finally lock down. His ability to get points, really isn't the issue though, is it? No, it's:
2. Defense. Ugh. Many say, "yeah, but he's great on offense." Last I recalled, defense was 50% of the game. Again, it's half of the game. I've always coached it as such. IT has no desire to work on that end, and when he does, he is limited by his size. AI (who apparently IT wants to be) was feisty on defense. He got into people early and often. IT is passive in that regard. This is where I feel he hurts the team. Yes, he hurts the team defensively. At 50% of an NBA game, he IS a weak link. Other teams know there's no resistance at the point of attack, so they're getting to the next level with ease.
If you know you it takes you longer to do a homework assignment, you start on it earlier. You know your weakness, and you try and overcompensate. It's what we've done. On defense, IT has to know his limitations, which means you should see him working harder to try and deny penetration. He has to know by now the screen is coming. Every. Single. Time. He has yet to adjust. He gets passive, which leaves the rest of the team in the lurch.
So where does that put us? We've got a guy who can score, but needs the ball in his hands at all time to do so. He's not a catch and shoot player, nor is he best suited to run a half-court offense. If we are (and IMO this is a misguided move) to continue to start IT at the PG position, we absolutely need a rim protector, and a lockdown defender at the 2. If we can get someone at least defensively mediocre to start at the PG position, then IT's long term value to this team then becomes that much better.
And with that, I think I'm going to bow out of IT arguments for a while. Don't take the silence to mean that I agree.
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I really don't understand all this talking about IT. Yes, he has some weaknesses on his game, but who doesn't? Since he got the starting job he is playing the best basketball of his career, and he's putting up great numbers. Yes, he shoots maybe too much for a PG, but he is the only one along with Gay and Cuz able to provide scoring. He's also shooting with great %, so why should he stop shooting? He should be a little more under control at times, it's true, but who do you want to take those shots? Gay and Cousins can't take 35 shots per game, and I prefer to have IT shooting than MLM or JT or Jimmer.
In the 11 games he started, he's posting 7.6 assist per game (he would be 10th in the NBA), 21.5 points (13th), .460% from 3 (6th), .486% from the field (44th, considering the big men too). Not bad... I don't think he is our problem right now.
In the 11 games he started, he's posting 7.6 assist per game (he would be 10th in the NBA), 21.5 points (13th), .460% from 3 (6th), .486% from the field (44th, considering the big men too). Not bad... I don't think he is our problem right now.
Sometimes I wonder if some people on this board would agree to a Tony Douglass for IT swap. IT's defense isn't great, but its no worse than 90 % of other PG's in the league. If your talking about PG's who can produce offensively at a level like IT, only Paul, Rondo and Westbrook would be considered good to great defenders. Even then Paul plays with Deandre Jordan, Rondo had Garnett and Perkins and Westbrook has Ibaka and Perkins as paint protectors. I would say Paul is really the only truly great defensive PG in the NBA. Rondo and Westbrook use their length to get deflections and steals but I wouldn't consider them shut down defenders in any sense.
hey, there it is again, the good ole "but everybody else is doing it!!" excuse for isaiah thomas...
beyond that, i take issue with the rather erroneous statement that IT is no worse a defender than 90% of the league's PG's. his size is tremendously limiting on defense, as is his lack of effort on what i consider to be the much more important side of the ball. most PG's in the nba--starters and bench players--shoot over thomas with ease. a great many blow by him just as easily, in spite of IT's nearly unrivaled quickness (particularly glaring evidence of his inability to commit to the defensive end, in my mind). he can't fight through screens, he's weak in rotation, and he gets caught in the overplay too often...
i've said it before and i'll say it again: if demarcus cousins (with his own defensive weaknesses to overcome) is going to be the kings' franchise cornerstone going forward, then the first point of attack cannot collapse as often as it does when isaiah thomas is starting. this team needs a starting caliber PG (as well as a starting caliber SG) who can hold his own on defense. this doesn't necessarily mean that the team requires a lockdown defender at the PG position, but it does mean that they require a player who can at least occasionally deny dribble penetration, at least occasionally contest outside shots, and at least occasionally fight through screens effectively...
beyond that, i take issue with the rather erroneous statement that IT is no worse a defender than 90% of the league's PG's. his size is tremendously limiting on defense, as is his lack of effort on what i consider to be the much more important side of the ball. most PG's in the nba--starters and bench players--shoot over thomas with ease. a great many blow by him just as easily, in spite of IT's nearly unrivaled quickness (particularly glaring evidence of his inability to commit to the defensive end, in my mind). he can't fight through screens, he's weak in rotation, and he gets caught in the overplay too often...
i've said it before and i'll say it again: if demarcus cousins (with his own defensive weaknesses to overcome) is going to be the kings' franchise cornerstone going forward, then the first point of attack cannot collapse as often as it does when isaiah thomas is starting. this team needs a starting caliber PG (as well as a starting caliber SG) who can hold his own on defense. this doesn't necessarily mean that the team requires a lockdown defender at the PG position, but it does mean that they require a player who can at least occasionally deny dribble penetration, at least occasionally contest outside shots, and at least occasionally fight through screens effectively...
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IT is my favorite player. That being said history is not on his side. He will eventually be exploited to the detriment of the team. the question for this team is what is good enough before they remove him as a starter. .500...is that enough? He is exciting to watch but is he a title make or trade bait?
I will say the more he is abused physically now the worse off the team will be. They need to let Gay handle the ball more in half-court for starters and let IT move more without the ball.
I think Jimmer needs to never see another minute on this team, move on guys you made you choice.
Also, I think Cousins hurts them on defense as much as IT or anyone else.
I will say the more he is abused physically now the worse off the team will be. They need to let Gay handle the ball more in half-court for starters and let IT move more without the ball.
I think Jimmer needs to never see another minute on this team, move on guys you made you choice.
Also, I think Cousins hurts them on defense as much as IT or anyone else.
If you take the ball away from IT, you take away the thing he is best at and that is to create offense (whether it is good or bad makes no nevermind here). He is a 6th man, his gift is clearly to score and that is what is on his mind all game long. This isn't anything negative that I am trying to implicate, but I am just stating the obvious. The kid is a scorer, an efficient one, that struggles on defense due to several reasons. Our team defense as a whole just plain sucks 98% of the time. The reason why IT is usually singled out the most on the defensive side is that the ball always begins with the point guard. IT is defending the other PG and it is his duty to make life as miserable as possible for his counterpart. Usually, IT likes to roll out the red carpet instead and greet his other half with open arms and an open lane. This forces Cousins to either a) show and stop the drive b) defend the PG until IT can recover from whatever pick he is stuck on c) get scored on and/or foul. This makes Cousins look like a terrible defender, but it's really not as bad as it seems. He clearly isn't the best defender the world has ever seen, but he is adept. After all, it's not his gift. Someone (not implicating you) on this forum wrote they cannot understand why someone as big as Cousins can't average at least 2 blocks a game. It's not his thing; there is room for improvement for sure, but he's not Mutambo. Even Dwight averages less than 2. He needs a shot blocking sidekick.
The last several posts were moved to a more appropriate thread.
The better player OFFENSIVELY. Nobody is going to seriously criticize IT for his scoring. Some criticism is warranted for how he scores and how that meshes with Cousins and Gay. He is doing a better job of distributing the ball lately, and I think he can learn to mesh his game with theirs.
The defensive side of the court is just a disaster, though. I've said elsewhere that the combination of IT, Cousins and JT cannot defend pick and roll sets, and if you can't defend PnR in the NBA, you're going to have a bad time. Cousins rarely leaves the paint to hedge, and when he does JT fails to rotate properly. IT loses plays after a single pick on defense. Replace JT with a defensive roleplayer and you might be okay. Replace IT with a defensive pg like George Hill or Avery Bradley and you'd probably be okay. The one guy you don't replace is Cousins.
The defensive side of the court is just a disaster, though. I've said elsewhere that the combination of IT, Cousins and JT cannot defend pick and roll sets, and if you can't defend PnR in the NBA, you're going to have a bad time. Cousins rarely leaves the paint to hedge, and when he does JT fails to rotate properly. IT loses plays after a single pick on defense. Replace JT with a defensive roleplayer and you might be okay. Replace IT with a defensive pg like George Hill or Avery Bradley and you'd probably be okay. The one guy you don't replace is Cousins.
You have to replace JT with a rim protector regardless of what you do with IT.
The PG is the single most irrelevant defensive position in the NBA. You could have prime Gary Payton at PG and still be a horrible defending the pick-and-roll with two mediocre rim protectors in Cousins and JT protecting the paint. On the other hand, you can have Jameer Nelson and Rashard Lewis at PG and PF but still be the best defensive team in the NBA with Dwight Howard patrolling the paint like Orlando in 2009.
There are two components that all championship teams share: A. a Franchise superstar, and B. a rim protector. If you don't have B, you can win it if you have all-time-great athletes on the wings, like Jordan/Pippen or Wade/Lebron. If you don't have A, you are hoping for a once in a blue moon fluke like the Pistons in 2004. If you don't have either A or B, you have no shot.
We hopefully have A in Cousins. We need B given we don't have MJ/Pippen or Lebron/Wade on the wings. We won't win anything otherwise.
The PG is the single most irrelevant defensive position in the NBA. You could have prime Gary Payton at PG and still be a horrible defending the pick-and-roll with two mediocre rim protectors in Cousins and JT protecting the paint. On the other hand, you can have Jameer Nelson and Rashard Lewis at PG and PF but still be the best defensive team in the NBA with Dwight Howard patrolling the paint like Orlando in 2009.
There are two components that all championship teams share: A. a Franchise superstar, and B. a rim protector. If you don't have B, you can win it if you have all-time-great athletes on the wings, like Jordan/Pippen or Wade/Lebron. If you don't have A, you are hoping for a once in a blue moon fluke like the Pistons in 2004. If you don't have either A or B, you have no shot.
We hopefully have A in Cousins. We need B given we don't have MJ/Pippen or Lebron/Wade on the wings. We won't win anything otherwise.
