Thought-Provoking Question of the Day (split from game thread/poll added)

[spudfan]

It really just depends on your preference. Davis looks like KG reincarnate. Possibly even better. Took KG awhile to establish himself and Davis is already close to being the best 2-way big in the league. As a Kings fan, I say F-no and stick with our guy. As a basketball fan, well.... I still make the trade because of what Davis has already put up and how much potential he still has in him

Let's say we look into a crystal ball and Davis ends up being KG in his prime. Do you do this trade?

There is an article floating around that compared Davis, Duncan and KG at the start of their careers that you might be interested in. It said Duncan's post game was far superior to Davis, and Davis was far super to KG. I think I had seen it when people were asking if Davis could be as good as Duncan if you are looking for what to search.

 

[hrdboild]

Would you trade in-his-prime Chris Webber for in-his-prime Kevin Garnett? This is basically that question. You can't go wrong with either of these guys. They're poised to dominate the league for the next decade and both of them are completely unique. Davis is much more than just a shot blocker he's so long and quick that he's basically unguardable in open space. Cousins is that rare post player who you can throw the ball to and he'll find a way to get you a basket most of the time. It's basically a tie as far as I'm concerned on talent and potential. And in that case I go with the guy who was drafted by the Kings and is about to become the first All-Star representative for the Kings since 2004.

 

[The_Jamal]

Let's say we look into a crystal ball and Davis ends up being KG in his prime. Do you do this trade?

There is an article floating around that compared Davis, Duncan and KG at the start of their careers that you might be interested in. It said Duncan's post game was far superior to Davis, and Davis was far super to KG. I think I had seen it when people were asking if Davis could be as good as Duncan if you are looking for what to search.

Absolutely. KG is one of the most dominant 2-way players in history. Cuz simply is too limited defensively to get me to pass on that 2-way potential.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't think Davis would need a supporting post scorer, it would be a guard or sf with elite penetration ability if you base it on his current game. The general rule is you need someone who can either get or set up easy buckets. Preferably both. With Davis not being that person (right now) it's what he would need to be paired with. If you think he will eventually be that player it makes sense to pick him over Cousins. So the comparison should be is it harder to find a player like that, or is it harder to find a help defender + rim protector.

I think you need both.

Here's the situation: Game 7, tie score 94-94, 22 seconds to go, your ball. If Anthony Davis is your franchise guy right now you probably lose that game, or at least go to OT. He just does not have a very advanced halfcourt game. Watch those vids. He's like the John Wall of big men right now. Ok, that's not fair, he's got a jumper. But 90% of what he is doing is running the break for dunks, slipping backdoor for alley oops etc. And he's a skinny guy. When you need to control the game, you need a score, to run offense through somebody/whatever, Davis is a lot more like Blake Griffin than he is Demarcus Cousins. He's an opportunist right now, not a dominator. A team buckles in on defense, gets back on the break in a halfcourt playoff war...Anthony Davis isn't going to carry you through that situation on offense. You need a goto guy at those times. If Davis won't, basically you need an even better offensive player to do it for you.

 

[spudfan]

I think you need both.

Here's the situation: Game 7, tie score 94-94, 22 seconds to go, your ball. If Anthony Davis is your franchise guy right now you probably lose that game, or at least go to OT. He just does not have a very advanced halfcourt game. Watch those vids. He's like the John Wall of big men right now. Ok, that's not fair, he's got a jumper. But 90% of what he is doing is running the break for dunks, slipping backdoor for alley oops etc. And he's a skinny guy. When you need to control the game, you need a score, to run offense through somebody/whatever, Davis is a lot more like Blake Griffin than he is Demarcus Cousins. He's an opportunist right now, not a dominator. A team buckles in on defense, gets back on the break in a halfcourt playoff war...Anthony Davis isn't going to carry you through that situation on offense. You need a goto guy at those times. If Davis won't, basically you need an even better offensive player to do it for you.

Grrr, I reworded that a few times and obviously still got it wrong. I was more trying to say the comparable piece that his team would need is an elite guard/sf who can be the go-to guy rather than another big being that guy. Cousins needs a help defender/rim protector and Davis needs the go-to guy.

edit: I guess his go-to guy could be a center, that would be a bit interesting and fun.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think you need both.

Here's the situation: Game 7, tie score 94-94, 22 seconds to go, your ball. If Anthony Davis is your franchise guy right now you probably lose that game, or at least go to OT. He just does not have a very advanced halfcourt game. Watch those vids. He's like the John Wall of big men right now. Ok, that's not fair, he's got a jumper. But 90% of what he is doing is running the break for dunks, slipping backdoor for alley oops etc. And he's a skinny guy. When you need to control the game, you need a score, to run offense through somebody/whatever, Davis is a lot more like Blake Griffin than he is Demarcus Cousins. He's an opportunist right now, not a dominator. A team buckles in on defense, gets back on the break in a halfcourt playoff war...Anthony Davis isn't going to carry you through that situation on offense. You need a goto guy at those times. If Davis won't, basically you need an even better offensive player to do it for you.

He's also 20. Haven't checked, but I imagine his 20 year old season so far is one of the greatest ever. He's not even close to tapping out his potential and you can make a case for him being the most valuable big in the game.

Part of the intrigue with Davis, and the reason i'd make this deal is where he can go from here. I'm not saying Cuz is tapped out by any means, but I think this season's numbers is a pretty good median point for what his career numbers will look like. Maybe a 1-2 RPG and a few PPG here and there, but fairly similar to this line.

With Davis, I think you have that same offensive/rebounding potential with an elite defensive player thrown in. We'll have to wait and see if he can get there though

 

[Siranthony]

It depends on which Cousins you are talking about. The one that loses his temper and gets technicals I would trade. The one who was an all star the last three games I would keep. I'm not sure the trade would make us any better anyway. We keep trading but the wins and losses remain the same. We need to make moves that make sense for the team.

 

[Bricklayer]

Absolutely. KG is one of the most dominant 2-way players in history. Cuz simply is too limited defensively to get me to pass on that 2-way potential.

KG in his prime was one of my favorite players, but its worth noting that the criticism of KG's dominance, the hole in his game as a goto guy, was spot on. During all those years of greatness, KG not only didn't win a title, he was never even really in the mix. And teammates make a huge difference of course. But he wasn't winning them. Duncan was. Shaq was. he finally did win one with Boston, but even then he really wasn't the goto guy and he's ending up with the same number as Dirk, who was a non defender who finally won one as the goto guy.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Would you trade in-his-prime Chris Webber for in-his-prime Kevin Garnett? This is basically that question. You can't go wrong with either of these guys. They're poised to dominate the league for the next decade and both of them are completely unique. Davis is much more than just a shot blocker he's so long and quick that he's basically unguardable in open space. Cousins is that rare post player who you can throw the ball to and he'll find a way to get you a basket most of the time. It's basically a tie as far as I'm concerned on talent and potential. And in that case I go with the guy who was drafted by the Kings and is about to become the first All-Star representative for the Kings since 2004.

This prompted a search, the result of which I think many here may enjoy: link here.

 

[spudfan]

This prompted a search, the result of which I think many here may enjoy: link here.

This surprised me, Webber's FT: 177 / 313. 565 %

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm as big of a Cousins fan as there is, but I think I'd do the trade. And I'm not quite so sure it's easier to find a supporting defender to Cousins as it is to find a supporting post scorer to Davis. In the "get a big man defender to pair with Cousins" discussions we've narrowed it down to guys like Ibaka, Drummond, and John Henson who are expensive, unattainable, or both. Meanwhile, you can get away with a David West type next to a Davis (like the Pacers do with Hibbert), and I think those guys are much easier to find...

Exactly how many "David West types" do you think there are?

 

[LPKingsFan]

This surprised me, Webber's FT: 177 / 313. 565 %

yeah, looking back, I forgot how bad of a free throw shooter Webb was until his second year here. Helps explain why DMC's TS% is higher, despite Webb's better FG%

 

[Bricklayer]

People have to understand that those per36 numbers on DeMarcus are what we are really talking bout here. 31min a game is silly low for a franchis ecneter. its there solely because of his lingering foul issues, which should alleviate as he matures, gets superstar treatment, we get better teammates around him who can cover their own men/play the shotblocker role etc. Once he starts getting the customary 35-40 min you are talking about a 25+pt 12reb guy. i.e. one of the most dominant offensive bigs in the history of the league. People don't always realize what they are watching, its too easy to miss the forest for the trees with the constant chaos around this team.

 

[spudfan]

People have to understand that those per36 numbers on DeMarcus are what we are really talking bout here. 31min a game is silly low for a franchis ecneter. its there solely because of his lingering foul issues, which should alleviate as he matures, gets superstar treatment, we get better teammates around him who can cover their own men/play the shotblocker role etc. Once he starts getting the customary 35-40 min you are talking about a 25+pt 12reb guy. i.e. one of the most dominant offensive bigs in the history of the league. People don't always realize what they are watching, its too easy to miss the forest for the trees with the constant chaos around this team.

Indeed. The link below has a Cousins vs Davis done by Dime last month. This comes from that article and expands on what you are saying.

Cousins is averaging 21.3 points and 10.5 boards playing 30.5 minutes per game. Davis is playing over 35 minutes per game. In other words, Cousins is only playing about 63 percent of a full 48-minute game while Davis is playing 73 percent. Five minutes may not seem like a lot of time, but let’s consider that a shot clock lasts 24 seconds. If Davis is on the court for five more minutes a game, compared to Cousins, then Davis is getting about 12.5 more possessions per game (considering each possession is one 24-second turn). What this essentially means is that Cousins is producing numbers on par with Davis, but with 12.5 less possessions per game. That shows in their per-36 minute averages, where Cousins’ rebounding, passing and scoring numbers dwarf Davis. DMC also averages more steals per 36 minutes.

To take this further, even though Cousins is playing less minutes than Davis, his team is getting him the ball more frequently. To date, Cousins is getting 59.5 touches per game while Davis is only averaging 50.6 touches per game.

http://dimemag.com/2013/11/whos-better-demarcus-cousins-anthony-davis/

So when Cousins starts playing franchise minutes his numbers will not only bounce up from the additional time, but will also rise higher in relation to Davis due to the usage rate during those minutes. That usage rate is sure to change though as rosters change and Davis will get more touches if he develops a post game.

 

[VF21]

It depends on which Cousins you are talking about. The one that loses his temper and gets technicals I would trade. The one who was an all star the last three games I would keep. I'm not sure the trade would make us any better anyway. We keep trading but the wins and losses remain the same. We need to make moves that make sense for the team.

It's almost 2014. Isn't it about time to acknowledge that DFC has taken huge strides in this regard and isn't that player any more?

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm going to double post this over into the Boogie All Star slot, but here's what I am talking about.

per 36 minutes, age 23 or younger. this is the alltime list of anybody that young who has ever averaged 26.2pts 12.5reb per 36:

1) Kareem 70-71
2) Wilt 59-60
3) Bellamy 61-62
4) Cousins 13-14

That's it. The whole list. Translated: DeMarcus Cousins is having the most wildly productive season of any 23 year in the modern history of the NBA.

 

[VF21]

This prompted a search, the result of which I think many here may enjoy: link here.

Nice. Amazing how easy it is to do these kinds of things now. Why, back in the day...

 

[gunks]

This question (Circa 2002) is kind of like asking if you'd trade prime Webber for prime Garnett.

Both franchise guys in different ways. Tough choice to be sure. The homer in me is gonna stick it out with Cousins though. Like Brick said, its not THAT hard to find a defensive role player to put next to DMC (well, apparently it was for Petrie), and the big fella is starting to destroy opposing teams on the regular.

EDIT: hardboild beat me to it! I really should start reading through the threads before I post

 

[SacTownKid]

Its not really. If you watch the games half his points come from running the floor hard, then there's the occasional jumper. He's their best player, but he's not at this stage a throw it to him against a set defense and watch him go to work guy.

Exactly, whereas Cousins is a TRUE "go to" player. It's like with Kevin Love, never mistake pure production for superstar talent. I would think after this team not having anything like a real "go to" player for close to a decade it would make it a lot easier to recognize it when it finally returned.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Exactly, whereas Cousins is a TRUE "go to" player. It's like with Kevin Love, never mistake pure production for superstar talent. I would think after this team not having anything like a real "go to" player for close to a decade it would make it a lot easier to recognize it when it finally returned.

82games appears to indicate that 72 percent of Anthony Davis' shots are assisted, versus 49 percent for Cousins (if you want to compare Yr2 to Yr2, Cousins' had 47 percent assisted baskets his sophomore season). What that indicates to me is that Davis is not a go-to offensive player. Maybe he'll become so, and maybe he won't. Cousins already is. I'll take the go-to player; if that means I have to pay through the nose for a rim protector, so be it.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

No. on top of plenty of other reasons, the guy already has been missing time for multiple different injuries

 

[Warhawk]

Nice. Amazing how easy it is to do these kinds of things now. Why, back in the day...

.... you had to use an abacus! Zing!

 

[VF21]

.... you had to use an abacus! Zing!

 

[mac]

Having watched some Pelicans games I think some of you are underestimating his half-court game. It's also not entirely fair to say that just because he gets a lot of his baskets off of lobs or putbacks he doesn't have a post up game, because that's the way the Pelicans offense works. When you have guys like Jrue Holiday, Eric Gordon and Tyreke Evans on the perimeter it doesn't make sense to post up Davis and have him go 1 on 1. I have seen him be pretty effective in those situations. The comparison that Brick made to Griffin is in a sense accurate. Griffin does have the ability to post up and go 1 on 1, contrary to what some of the fans here think. It certainly isn't his or Davis' strong point, but prior to this season it wasn't Cousins' either.

To answer the question ... if we were to keep the rest of the roster I would make the trade. IT wants the team to run, which Davis will do a lot better than Cousins. He will also help to cover our weak perimeter defense a lot better than Cousins does. But if we're building a team from scratch and I get to choose what style the team plays and such I'm sticking with Cousins. As others have said, he has the chance to be one of the most dominant offensive bigs ever.

Either way, there should be no doubt that the two of them are really good players who don't get the media attention they deserve, very much unlike Dwight-can't hit a free throw-Howard or Blake-floppy-Griffin. I'm with Baja and Glenn, let's get them both!

 

[KingMilz]

82games appears to indicate that 72 percent of Anthony Davis' shots are assisted, versus 49 percent for Cousins (if you want to compare Yr2 to Yr2, Cousins' had 47 percent assisted baskets his sophomore season). What that indicates to me is that Davis is not a go-to offensive player. Maybe he'll become so, and maybe he won't. Cousins already is. I'll take the go-to player; if that means I have to pay through the nose for a rim protector, so be it.

Can you please throw me a link of the % of assisted buckts please, I tried looking for it but could not find it plenty of times.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

http://www.82games.com/1314/13NOH14.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1314/13SAC17.HTM

Look where it shows scoring.

 

[hrdboild]

This question (Circa 2002) is kind of like asking if you'd trade prime Webber for prime Garnett.

Both franchise guys in different ways. Tough choice to be sure. The homer in me is gonna stick it out with Cousins though. Like Brick said, its not THAT hard to find a defensive role player to put next to DMC (well, apparently it was for Petrie), and the big fella is starting to destroy opposing teams on the regular.

EDIT: hardboild beat me to it! I really should start reading through the threads before I post

Heh, well obviously the fact that we both came up with the same analogy independently suggests that it's a pretty good one. Right down to the better all-around offensive player wearing a Kings jersey and the super talented defensive wiz playing for someone else. There's no way to know how our team would have changed with Garnett in the middle instead of C-Webb. Webber certainly has his detractors. But for me those Webber years were too much fun to trade away for anything, career retrospect be damned. It's a fun hypothetical question (speaking now of the Cousins for Davis trade idea) but I think both teams are very happy with the guy they've got and that's the way it should be.

 

[gunks]

Haha, yeah. Not to mention Cousins gets compared to Webber from time to time and AD gets the Garnett comparison thrown around a lot.

I imagine this thread is going to blow up a bit after this upcoming game. AD vs DMC. Should be a fun game. I'm going to be bitter when Tyreke destroys us though.

 

[chasen4r1]

Haha, yeah. Not to mention Cousins gets compared to Webber from time to time and AD gets the Garnett comparison thrown around a lot.

I imagine this thread is going to blow up a bit after this upcoming game. AD vs DMC. Should be a fun game. I'm going to be bitter when Tyreke destroys us though.

Scary thought... I was at the Tony Delk game which prompted the Tony Delk award for years to come. I'll be at Arco on monday for the first time in years. Crossing my fingers I dont have the same experience of being destroyed by a former player

 

[Tetsujin]

Haha, yeah. Not to mention Cousins gets compared to Webber from time to time and AD gets the Garnett comparison thrown around a lot.

I imagine this thread is going to blow up a bit after this upcoming game. AD vs DMC. Should be a fun game. I'm going to be bitter when Tyreke destroys us though.

It's either that or he'll sprain his ankle again. There is pretty much no in between.