A general discussion on Isaiah Thomas

[sdballer]

Yeah, that's not what I said at all. I was posing the question. I know when Kobe would take X amount of shots, the lakers would usually lose. There's a balance. And that's not at all comparing Kobe to IT, cause that's laughable. Only IT THINKS he's kobe.

And you know what, the answer is out there. I wasn't posing it as "opinion." You can call me stupid if you want, but you don't seem to know the answer either genius. I was asking, when IT scores 20+, or 25+, or takes 20+ shots, or whatever, do we win more or lose more? That's all. Is the team offense better or worse? We have 2 full seasons to look at. I'm too lazy to do it, but it's out there.

I absolutely did NOT say we are losing because IT is scoring a lot (however, we also are not winning). He's the only reason we were even close the last few games. I can admit that. I hate his game, and when he continues to ignore wide open Ben McLemore for dunks, I'll continue to scream at the TV. Because Ben is really the only reason we are here right now watching these games, and to see if Cousins can get it together and contribute every night. Cause if he doesn't, we get the IT show. That's not good basketball. I'm getting on board with Ben starting just so he can play with a guy that might pass to him as a first resort, not only when he can't get his. I think everyone with a bit of perspective realizes our best chance at winning is with Vazquez playing well. Otherwise, it's street ball just like the past few seasons. Which IT is very good at, and can be good in small doses.

I honestly think in 2 seasons, the only players left from this team may very well be mclemore and Cousins.

Bottom line, this is the least likable team in the league. I have friends who have been fans from day 1 that have said "I hate every player on this team." And guess what? ESPN ranked us DEAD LAST in players. That doesn't mean they are the worst players, just that they are completely unlikable. That's the reality. They pout, they whine, they pick fights with announcers, with each other, yell at the coaches, etc. etc. And that last place ranking is not just in the NBA, that's in ALL SPORTS. Don't be so shocked that I'm not in love with a tiny spark plug type who thinks he's michael jordan and pouts when he's not getting shots and doesn't play D on guys he doesn't consider worth his time or effort (which begs the question, in IT's mind, is he an all star? a superstar? why on earth doesn't he play D unless it's Chris Paul he's guarding? It makes no sense). And you can see on this board, we are critical of everyone. Frankly, this, with three exceptions, is the exact same terrible team as last season. No one is beyond criticism, nor should they be. We are not a winning team and haven't been in a long long time.

I completely agree IT has been possibly the only bright spot on this team (with Ben). I'm just saying, if that continues to be the case, we will NOT win games. And that's the goal isn't it? Not for IT to pad his numbers to score a big contract, you know, how MT did with us?

Last year he took about 2 more shots in losses vs wins. Not a huge difference.

 

[Chubbs]

Last year he took about 2 more shots in losses vs wins. Not a huge difference.

Well there you go.

Is my opinion still stupid if it happens to also be true?

Almost too close to be significant I'll admit.

 

[Bricklayer]

This is why I find opinions like this utterly stupid. We're losing because IT is scoring at a ridiculous rate? How in the world does that make sense? No one would be complaining if Cousins had IT's efficiency/scoring numbers right now. He's utterly deserving of the shots he takes because 1. The rest of our team can't hit squat and 2. He's producing (right now at least) at elite NBA levels. And it's not like he's taken away from Cousins either. They haven't been on the floor together very much, and when they have, IT has given him the ball

IT has been scorching hot early and clearly one of only two guys (Ben may be coming around) thriving in the early season. Possibly only 1 guy given that Cousins is thriving less by the game. But it is interesting that even at elevated numbers his career long pattern of more IT = more losses is duplicating. Impossibly small sample size of course. But his career is not a small sample size. In our 1 win this year IT takes 9 shots, hits 5 of them, scores 16 pts and dishes 5 assists. 1 assist for every made FG of his own. In our 3 losses he scores 22.3pts averaging 13.3 shots a game and a smidge fewer than those same 5 assists. The numbers look great and personally I am inclined to see a more controlled IT, if it is possible to control such a forceful ME player, to be part of the solution eventually. But the fact is IT has always been able to get his own numbers, its the effect on the rest of the team that has always been dubious.

There has been a career long pattern with IT, all three years, including this one's short season, where our wins and losses correlate with 3 things for him:

1) we win when he shoots better, lose when he shoots worse. That's an obvious one, but last year in the IT-centric offense it was especially pronounced.
2) we win when he shoots less, lose when he guns more
3) we win he passes more, lose when he passes less (and turns it over more)

Over his career, these are the combined splits:

Wins: 50wins 24.7min 13.1pts (4.5-8.8 .514FG% 1.5-3.4 .436Thr% 2.6-3.0 .850FT%) 2.0reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 0.0blk 1.4TO
Loss: 98loss 27.2min 13.0pts (4.3-10.3 .416FG% 1.3-3.9 .339Thr% 3.1-3.6 .869FT%) 2.4reb 4.0ast 0.8stl 0.1blk 1.9TO


Over 150 games now we are talking a major sample size with a 100pt FG% split in particular. This is a feast or famine player. When he's hitting, he's really really hitting. When he's not, he's selfish, forces, plays out of control. Unfortunately the numbers say he's off roughly twice as often as he's on. There's a weapon there, but it needs to be controlled and parsed, because he won't do it himself, and he's got control of the ball, and unfortunately your fate because of it.

 

[KingMilz]

Last year he took about 2 more shots in losses vs wins. Not a huge difference.

In losses he probably takes more shots since the rest of the team is struggling........

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I thought he played very good defense against Teague. Got the best steal of the season against him and was much much more effective than Vasquez was against him

You know who played good defense against Teague? BenMac. Teague was knifing us up left and right (I think it was in the third, but I don't remember who was playing PG at the time). We switched Ben over onto Teague for five possessions and Teague got nothing. Couldn't get anywhere, spent most of his time passing the ball around the perimeter. I don't think he drove or shot over that stretch.

 

[Npliam]

IT has been scorching hot early and clearly one of only two guys (Ben may be coming around) thriving in the early season. Possibly only 1 guy given that Cousins is thriving less by the game. But it is interesting that even at elevated numbers his career long pattern of more IT = more losses is duplicating. Impossibly small sample size of course. But his career is not a small sample size. In our 1 win this year IT takes 9 shots, hits 5 of them, scores 16 pts and dishes 5 assists. 1 assist for every made FG of his own. In our 3 losses he scores 22.3pts averaging 13.3 shots a game and a smidge fewer than those same 5 assists. The numbers look great and personally I am inclined to see a more controlled IT, if it is possible to control such a forceful ME player, to be part of the solution eventually. But the fact is IT has always been able to get his own numbers, its the effect on the rest of the team that has always been dubious.

There has been a career long pattern with IT, all three years, including this one's short season, where our wins and losses correlate with 3 things for him:

1) we win when he shoots better, lose when he shoots worse. That's an obvious one, but last year in the IT-centric offense it was especially pronounced.
2) we win when he shoots less, lose when he guns more
3) we win he passes more, lose when he passes less (and turns it over more)

Over his career, these are the combined splits:

Wins: 50wins 24.7min 13.1pts (4.5-8.8 .514FG% 1.5-3.4 .436Thr% 2.6-3.0 .850FT%) 2.0reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 0.0blk 1.4TO
Loss: 98loss 27.2min 13.0pts (4.3-10.3 .416FG% 1.3-3.9 .339Thr% 3.1-3.6 .869FT%) 2.4reb 4.0ast 0.8stl 0.1blk 1.9TO


Over 150 games now we are talking a major sample size with a 100pt FG% split in particular. This is a feast or famine player. When he's hitting, he's really really hitting. When he's not, he's selfish, forces, plays out of control. Unfortunately the numbers say he's off roughly twice as often as he's on. There's a weapon there, but it needs to be controlled and parsed, because he won't do it himself, and he's got control of the ball, and unfortunately your fate because of it.

You should show the same numbers for Boogie.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

In losses he probably takes more shots since the rest of the team is struggling........

That's a possibility. Cause and effect are hard to tease apart here either way. In the end, he's scoring almost the exact same number of points (13.1 to 13.0) but he's doing it while using about 2.3 fewer possessions (11.5 to 13.8) in the wins. In the long run, a possession is worth about a point, so he directly costs us about 2.3 points in our losses relative to our wins. I don't know the numbers, but I guarantee that the difference in our margin of victory for wins and losses is a lot more than that (more like a difference of 10-15 points). So it would appear that his shooting has some direct effect on team success, it's not solely responsible, or even close. What the indirect effect is (meaning, if IT's play style has a negative effect on team play style on possessions where he doesn't shoot/TO), if any, is probably really hard to tell.

On the other hand, how much of it is an effect of playing against tougher defenses? If you think about it, we probably ought to see net-negatives in losses like this for all players on the team. Some of it will fall into "X had a crappy day", some will fall into "X had such a crappy day he was a key component in losing" and some will fall into "Kings just played a better team and couldn't get good shots". But I think it's going to be real tough to look at aggregate stats and tease those apart.

 

[sdballer]

DMC's career splits. Only the slightest of slight differences, but we're better when he's on the court and the ball is in his hands, especially when you consider how low his assisted baskets have been for a big man.
Wins: 70wins 30min 17.7pts (13.9FGA .49FG% 5.6FTA .733FT%) 10.7reb 2.9ast 3.1TO
Loss: 154loss 29.7min 15.7pts (13.8FGA .43FG% 5.3FTA .696FT%) 9.3reb 2.0ast 2.9TO

 

[Bricklayer]

DMC's career splits. Only the slightest of slight differences, but we're better when he's on the court and the ball is in his hands, especially when you consider how low his assisted baskets have been for a big man.
Wins: 70wins 30min 17.7pts (13.9FGA .49FG% 5.6FTA .733FT%) 10.7reb 2.9ast 3.1TO
Loss: 154loss 29.7min 15.7pts (13.8FGA .43FG% 5.3FTA .696FT%) 9.3reb 2.0ast 2.9TO

Okay, I didn't want to derail this thread by getting into that, but saved me putting together the numbers. Matches the eyeball test when I glanced through them. With Boogie its pretty much a straight "he shoots better we win" thing (also rebounding, not surprising for a big). But the correlation, especially post-messy rookie season, is only about half as strong as ITs. And he doesn't have the ball or control the offense like IT, so his production is largely about him. He can be a problem when selfish, but he can't freeze anybody else out. He doesn't take more shots in losses. He doesn't turn it over more. Its just hitting shots.

The other reason I did not want to bring that in is that the entire note at the beginning of my post was that it was interesting that IT's career pattern was repeating even with great numbers this season. Well, its the opposite for Cousins in tis tiny tiny sample size, so the whole debate with him is different. In the game we featured him the most, we positively pounded the hell out of Denver with him and he took 26 shots as we won. In our 3 losses? 13 shots a game. So the argument for his usage is exactly the opposite.

To bring it back to IT, although there are about 10 guys causing more of a problem than IT right now, here's the short season comparison:

wins:
Cousins 26.0FGA 30pts
Thomas 9.0FGA 16pts

losses:
Cousins 13.0FGA 14.3pts
Thomas 13.3 FGA 22.3pts


Which again wraps around to the career long question/observation: more IT, IT centrism = lose lose lose. There will never be a winning team with IT as a 20ppg scorer. Now is it really his fault this year given how pathetic everybody else has been? That's a fair question.

 

[Chubbs]

IT has been scorching hot early and clearly one of only two guys (Ben may be coming around) thriving in the early season. Possibly only 1 guy given that Cousins is thriving less by the game. But it is interesting that even at elevated numbers his career long pattern of more IT = more losses is duplicating. Impossibly small sample size of course. But his career is not a small sample size. In our 1 win this year IT takes 9 shots, hits 5 of them, scores 16 pts and dishes 5 assists. 1 assist for every made FG of his own. In our 3 losses he scores 22.3pts averaging 13.3 shots a game and a smidge fewer than those same 5 assists. The numbers look great and personally I am inclined to see a more controlled IT, if it is possible to control such a forceful ME player, to be part of the solution eventually. But the fact is IT has always been able to get his own numbers, its the effect on the rest of the team that has always been dubious.

There has been a career long pattern with IT, all three years, including this one's short season, where our wins and losses correlate with 3 things for him:

1) we win when he shoots better, lose when he shoots worse. That's an obvious one, but last year in the IT-centric offense it was especially pronounced.
2) we win when he shoots less, lose when he guns more
3) we win he passes more, lose when he passes less (and turns it over more)

Over his career, these are the combined splits:

Wins: 50wins 24.7min 13.1pts (4.5-8.8 .514FG% 1.5-3.4 .436Thr% 2.6-3.0 .850FT%) 2.0reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 0.0blk 1.4TO
Loss: 98loss 27.2min 13.0pts (4.3-10.3 .416FG% 1.3-3.9 .339Thr% 3.1-3.6 .869FT%) 2.4reb 4.0ast 0.8stl 0.1blk 1.9TO


Over 150 games now we are talking a major sample size with a 100pt FG% split in particular. This is a feast or famine player. When he's hitting, he's really really hitting. When he's not, he's selfish, forces, plays out of control. Unfortunately the numbers say he's off roughly twice as often as he's on. There's a weapon there, but it needs to be controlled and parsed, because he won't do it himself, and he's got control of the ball, and unfortunately your fate because of it.

Ahem. . Utterly stupid, huh?

Don't let facts and stats get in your way Jamal. Keep on ripping me.

 

[Chubbs]

You should show the same numbers for Boogie.

Without cheating, I'm guessing it's the exact opposite?

 

[The_Jamal]

IT has been scorching hot early and clearly one of only two guys (Ben may be coming around) thriving in the early season. Possibly only 1 guy given that Cousins is thriving less by the game. But it is interesting that even at elevated numbers his career long pattern of more IT = more losses is duplicating. Impossibly small sample size of course. But his career is not a small sample size. In our 1 win this year IT takes 9 shots, hits 5 of them, scores 16 pts and dishes 5 assists. 1 assist for every made FG of his own. In our 3 losses he scores 22.3pts averaging 13.3 shots a game and a smidge fewer than those same 5 assists. The numbers look great and personally I am inclined to see a more controlled IT, if it is possible to control such a forceful ME player, to be part of the solution eventually. But the fact is IT has always been able to get his own numbers, its the effect on the rest of the team that has always been dubious.

There has been a career long pattern with IT, all three years, including this one's short season, where our wins and losses correlate with 3 things for him:

1) we win when he shoots better, lose when he shoots worse. That's an obvious one, but last year in the IT-centric offense it was especially pronounced.
2) we win when he shoots less, lose when he guns more
3) we win he passes more, lose when he passes less (and turns it over more)

Over his career, these are the combined splits:

Wins: 50wins 24.7min 13.1pts (4.5-8.8 .514FG% 1.5-3.4 .436Thr% 2.6-3.0 .850FT%) 2.0reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 0.0blk 1.4TO
Loss: 98loss 27.2min 13.0pts (4.3-10.3 .416FG% 1.3-3.9 .339Thr% 3.1-3.6 .869FT%) 2.4reb 4.0ast 0.8stl 0.1blk 1.9TO


Over 150 games now we are talking a major sample size with a 100pt FG% split in particular. This is a feast or famine player. When he's hitting, he's really really hitting. When he's not, he's selfish, forces, plays out of control. Unfortunately the numbers say he's off roughly twice as often as he's on. There's a weapon there, but it needs to be controlled and parsed, because he won't do it himself, and he's got control of the ball, and unfortunately your fate because of it.

Basketball isn't played this way though. Yes, there's no doubt IT hogs the ball too much at times and he gets tremendous tunnel vision. But you can only combine it with 1 of many factors why we lose games. If u did this same thing with Thornton, Cousins, Evans, etc, I'm sure you'd find many of the same things happening.

Fact remains, we're a team full of nobodies right now. Virtually the entire team is underperforming on both ends of the floor. All I'm saying is the reason we're 1-3 is not IT, but the other 7 rotation players who are playing like utter crap.

 

[The_Jamal]

That's remarkably good for IT. Where do you find that stat?

Mysynergy sports. It has it's problems, but it's one of the better (and free) defensive stat places on the web.

 

[Chubbs]

Agre

Basketball isn't played this way though. Yes, there's no doubt IT hogs the ball too much at times and he gets tremendous tunnel vision. But you can only combine it with 1 of many factors why we lose games. If u did this same thing with Thornton, Cousins, Evans, etc, I'm sure you'd find many of the same things happening.

Fact remains, we're a team full of nobodies right now. Virtually the entire team is underperforming on both ends of the floor. All I'm saying is the reason we're 1-3 is not IT, but the other 7 rotation players who are playing like utter crap.[/quote

Can't disagree with that.

 

[ppine]

The production and play from the 1 this year has been a bright spot. GV played better against Portland.

The discussionn should really be what the hell is wrong with Salmons, Patterson, Thornton, and Thompson?

 

[kingssac12]

I know Kings fans love this guy and I do like him at times, IT is the most selfish players of them all including Thornton. I caught the end of the game yesterday and was so happy to not see him in, all the coaches buy in the past have been fooled by IT even go back to his college days for some of you that are real basketball and truly follow basketball he was selfish at UW. If most guys in the NBA could take 15 dribbles and dribble around in a circle they would eventually get or the rim as well. IT stats are so misleading most points come when game is settled and defense has let up a bit and this guy is second in shot attempts on this team. Call IT who he is Nate Robinson and that guy everywhere he has gone always thinks he is a starter like IT does and also has been on 6 teams in the last 8 years. I will give IT props on Friday he started off great look to pass ball had 5 assist off the gate but you can just tell the guy wanted to shoot still everytime but he passed and did well, by end of game ends with only 2 more assist but manages to get his and shoot the ball 15 times. listening to radio after one of the last preseason games Napear asks him how he feels about his role basically off bench and he goes on to say he doesn't know his role yet it isn't clear, really what he means I think I am still starting. If this guy can't be a team player and history back to UW say he won't time to get rid of the cancer, I know fans love him but when a guy thinks he is an undersize Iverson which he is not even close it is time to move a guy like this trust me in long term this guy will bounce around league. Sorry for the rant kings fans I just feel like I am watching a youth game when I watch this guy play and he dribbles in circles like kids do on 3rd grade until they can get there shot. Just my 10 cents (dime)

 

[Chubbs]

If you look around, we don't like him.

The announcers do. The fans not as much.

 

[jcassio]

Going into this season, I was looking forward to IT playing a key 6th man role for us. Basically changing the speed of the game, putting up points in a hurry, and getting the ball to his bench-mob teammates. All while playing some gritty D for a guy who only stands 5-9.

But that's not how it's turned out. I think that IT has become so confident in his ability to score that he's forgotten how to pass the ball, or set up anyone but himself.

And while he has been putting up points, he's not making anyone else better, and (I'm pretty sure) he's adversely affecting the play of his teammates who never get to touch the ball when he's in the game.

This has got to stop.

 

[macadocious]

I know this convo is going on in multiple threads, but I am pretty sure that Malone sees this. IT barely played in the second half last night.

 

[VF21]

A lot of fans like IT, but just do not like it when he goes "Mighty Mouse" and tries to do it all himself every single possession. If Malone is trying to instill a culture of TEAM play, and after last night's post-game presser it sure sounds like he is, then IT is going to absolutely have to set the example of kicking out to the open man, looking for the mismatch, etc. I love watching IT do his thing, but just like I used to get upset with Bobby J when he forgot there were other guys on the court, I don't like watching him overlook the open Ben or Jimmer or anyone else who is in a better position to take a shot.

 

[Kingstime]

We only played 6 games though and in atleast 3 of those IT has played great. In the clipper game he kept us alive, I dont see why IT catches so many reactions here.

Hes cheap, he wont be commanding a bigg contract and he brings me it every night.

 

[VF21]

I know this convo is going on in multiple threads, but I am pretty sure that Malone sees this. IT barely played in the second half last night.

We've merged a couple of threads into this "general discussion of IT" thread.

I think Malone likes what IT can bring BUT does not like the idea of IT taking over. Also, if Malone saw the clip of the interview with Grant, I'm not sure he's too happy with IT saying he still doesn't know what his role is.

 

[VF21]

We only played 6 games though and in atleast 3 of those IT has played great. In the clipper game he kept us alive, I dont see why IT catches so many reactions here.

Hes cheap, he wont be commanding a bigg contract and he brings me it every night.

He may bring it every night BUT he also seems to forget there are other guys out there on the court.

I will not deny his value. When he's on, he's ON. But listening to Grant and Jerry, you'd think he was the next coming of Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

I like Isaiah Thomas. I love his hustle and his energy. But he absolutely must help set the tone for the rookies and help evolve the new culture of unselfish play and TEAM mentality. I don't see that from him. He reminds me so very much of Bobby J, who was incredible as a 6th man but would also tend to get the Mighty Mouse complex at times. Maybe it comes with the territory?

We're trying to undo years of selfish play, and a total lack of anything even remotely resembling a team dynamic. The better members of the team need to work to be textbook examples of what team play looks like. I believe Isaiah falls into this group. You cannot fault his heart, his energy, his hustle or his desire to win. He just needs to bring his teammates along for the ride.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The production and play from the 1 this year has been a bright spot. GV played better against Portland.

The discussionn should really be what the hell is wrong with Salmons, Patterson, Thornton, and Thompson?

He may bring it every night BUT he also seems to forget there are other guys out there on the court.

I will not deny his value. When he's on, he's ON. But listening to Grant and Jerry, you'd think he was the next coming of Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

I like Isaiah Thomas. I love his hustle and his energy. But he absolutely must help set the tone for the rookies and help evolve the new culture of unselfish play and TEAM mentality. I don't see that from him. He reminds me so very much of Bobby J, who was incredible as a 6th man but would also tend to get the Mighty Mouse complex at times. Maybe it comes with the territory?

The confidence and mental fortitude is what allows these smaller guys to compete at a high level. If they were not this way, we would never have heard of them.

My opinion is you don't try to change these player types at all. You just adjust your game plan and playing time accordingly, if they're style isn't working on a given night

 

[DesertFox]

IT is 9th in the NBA in usage. He was already a shoot first PG before this season, but has taken the gunner role to the extreme.
I'm not saying he's a problem, and we all thought his game would be a good fit in the 6th man role. But he's playing every minute like it's his only chance to score.

 

[dude12]

Here's what I would do....play Ray and GV and It and then split Ben's time at SG and SF.....as long as Ben is getting 30+ minutes on the floor. It's not like Thornton and Fredette are physically imposing. Ray is more physical than any of our guards. Malone may give Jimmer his 5-6 game shot but after 20 games or less, i would be shocked if Ray wasn't playing. Malone and the staff loves him. IT can play with GV and Ray so that he's not dominating the ball as much but his shooting has been great. It's time to move on from MT and Salmons.

 

[Glenn]

We only played 6 games though and in atleast 3 of those IT has played great. In the clipper game he kept us alive, I dont see why IT catches so many reactions here.

Hes cheap, he wont be commanding a bigg contract and he brings me it every night.

The objections to IT's game have been posted over and over by different members. If you can't understand, I doubt if anyone can help you.

 

[jcassio]

We've merged a couple of threads into this "general discussion of IT" thread.

Forgive me, but I think some of you moderators are a little too aggressive with the merging of threads. Especially if they are a) not identical or b) one thread has played itself out. When you get to these long (multiple page) threads, I notice that the likelihood of the poster actually reading what's been posted on pages 3, 4 5 6, etc are remote. The quality discussion generally occurs within the first 2-3 pages, IMO. Yes, there are some exceptions, and I don't need any examples to know that. But I've been around long enough to have seen countless times that the overly aggressive merging of threads either creates confusion or is the kiss of death to a new or renewed discussion.

 

[macadocious]

Forgive me, but I think some of you moderators are a little too aggressive with the merging of threads. Especially if they are a) not identical or b) one thread has played itself out. When you get to these long (multiple page) threads, I notice that the likelihood of the poster actually reading what's been posted on pages 3, 4 5 6, etc are remote. The quality discussion generally occurs within the first 2-3 pages, IMO. Yes, there are some exceptions, and I don't need any examples to know that. But I've been around long enough to have seen countless times that the overly aggressive merging of threads either creates confusion or is the kiss of death to a new or renewed discussion.

I'll play devils advocate here. I hate that everytime someone has a new idea they start a thread. It would be much easier if there was an IT thread, a Jimmer thread, etc. Then everytime someone wants to talk about that person they bump that thread. Way less clutter that way

 

[Kingstime]

The objections to IT's game have been posted over and over by different members. If you can't understand, I doubt if anyone can help you.

If there were more consistent players on the team right now, Id see where ITs gunning would be a bad thing. I had a problem last year when he wasnt really trying to feed Cousins for a stretch. But outside of him not hitting Ben in his spots( hes gonna have to work on that) I dont see why he cant gun in spots.

Starting him will not get good results out there at all, Im hoping Malone isnt thinking of that. GV has the right mentality to run this team, we need to put the right players around him and DMC