You Read it Here First: The Warriors Will Make the Playoffs

[Yoda]

Counting on the Golden State Warriors to do anything positive is a fool's bet.

one could have said the same thing 6 years ago with the Kings.

 

[Gargamel]

The Lakers are also in trouble. They now have Bynum who was predicted to go in the mid 20s to us a week before draft day by various sights. He isn't an instant answer to there problems. Likewise, they don't have a real 4 nor a real 1 which will again give them huge problems. Phil is great, but he does need some talent around him to win. He might be able to will the team into the playoffs and if he does it might be his most impressive job, will have to see though.

a) Summer not over, they won't get a star player in trade, but they're looking for serviceable bigs with length (Jackson has a keen awareness of player types that work well in his system)
b) Don't need a real 1 in the triangle offense
c) Bynum is not slated as a starter, Mihm is serviceable
d) Turiaf is a first round talent at their weakest position (arguably a more important draft acquisition than Bynum)
e) No talent? Kobe, Odom, Butler -- Bynum is a lotto pick, all he needs to do is board and swat and has the height, vert, and athleticism to do so
f) Bynum was relatively unknown in draft circuits, only had thorough workouts with POR and LAL
g) Getting LA into the playoffs is not going to be Jackson's most impressive job. They were a 6th seed until Tomjanovich was reassigned and before Kobe's ankle and Odom's shoulder injuries. That team was horribly fractured and they could've legitimately scraped in as the 8th seed if the top 3 options played in every game. Worse squads than they have now made the playoffs after Magic retired.

 

[Gargamel]

one could have said the same thing 6 years ago with the Kings.

I'm not saying GS can't make it, but staunchly predicting it while also preaching to forget about the Lakers laughs in the face of history. If GS takes anything for granted next year, they've already lost.

 

[iheartBrad]

we'll see on the warriors

counting on baron davis to have an injury free year is like counting on shaq to make a free throw.

Hey, he makes them when it counts... lol

But don't they always count

 

[bigbadred00]

Gargamel-West is going to be pretty strong next year, on top of GSW improving, so will other teams. Locks for the playoffs are the following teams barring injuries: San Antonio, Suns, Denver, Houston, Dallas. That leaves 3 spots for the Sonics (?), Kings, Lakers, Jazz, Minne, and the Warriors to battle out. Sonics need to re-sign their FAs, if not there in trouble. Minne again is a big question mark. The Kings are a question mark, if they get someone like Nene at the 4, I think playoffs are pretty definite, if they don't, I'm not sure what kind of year they'll have. The Lakers have a good team, but are they better than any of the previous teams, probally not. If the Jazz can stay healthy, they have a pretty good team even with a rookie PG, a lineup of Williams, Giricheck, AK, Boozer, Okur with a bench of Harpring, Collins (EH?), Humpries could make some damage. Minne is also a big question mark. The only real non-contenders in the West are Portland, Clippers (maybe), and New Orleans.

 

[bigbadred00]

a) Summer not over, they won't get a star player in trade, but they're looking for serviceable bigs with length (Jackson has a keen awareness of player types that work well in his system)
b) Don't need a real 1 in the triangle offense
c) Bynum is not slated as a starter, Mihm is serviceable
d) Turiaf is a first round talent at their weakest position (arguably a more important draft acquisition than Bynum)
e) No talent? Kobe, Odom, Butler -- Bynum is a lotto pick, all he needs to do is board and swat and has the height, vert, and athleticism to do so
f) Bynum was relatively unknown in draft circuits, only had thorough workouts with POR and LAL
g) Getting LA into the playoffs is not going to be Jackson's most impressive job. They were a 6th seed until Tomjanovich was reassigned and before Kobe's ankle and Odom's shoulder injuries. That team was horribly fractured and they could've legitimately scraped in as the 8th seed if the top 3 options played in every game. Worse squads than they have now made the playoffs after Magic retired.

I know you should draft for need, but there was serious talent available at that spot, especially considering Phil probally won't be a coach for much more than 3 or 4 years. I guess you guys have a lock on the swing spot, but May was available, Green, Granger, Vazquez, Graham. I guess I don't know much about basketball, but I know 1 think, Kupcheck isn't a great GM.

 

[Senor Octubre]

As for the KG "myth" I mean the belief that he is some kind of ultra-competitor. Personally, I think he's just a jerk with a huge chip on his shoulder. I think that chip is related to something not politically correct to say, and I consequently do not like the guy. Let's just say there have been too many stories of him punching certain types of players in practices, year in and year out, and he even had altercations in high school that led to him transferring. He's a very talented player. Top 3? Sure, I guess. I just don't like him, nor do I have to. I think there are legitimate questions as to whether or not he will be able to lead his team back into the playoffs, and I am saying that he won't. Is that because I root against him? Sure. I don't think that dismisses the questions I have about the way that team is structured though.

Well put friend, truer words have never been spoken. Not a Huge fan at all. Who was it who said that "it wasn't his fault that McHale landed him a team of cancers" or something like that. That "team of cancers helped him earn the first of probably (unfortunately) many MVPs, and CARRIED HIM through the playoffs in 03/04? Garnett is an OVERRATED stat piler. Leader? Is that the same 7'0'' Kevin Garnett who wouldn't step up to 6'4'' Anthony Peeler when he challenged him, but would punch a rookie teammate (who idolized him growing up) in a practice game? Duncan is 5 times the player garnett will ever be, and he won his first two championship with supporting casts less talented then the ones garnett had played on from 97/98 to 03/04, and thats that.

 

[bigbadred00]

Less talented? Are you serious? David Robinson is better than any of KG's teammates, AJ isn't that great but not bad, Terry Porter same. Minnesota has had talent, but not seriously good talent for any stretch. KG might have better stats, but better teammates, I seriously doubt. Marbury left too early, same with Gugs, Wally is severely overrated and so is Joe Smith. Terrell Brandon fell on hard times while Chauncey Billups left too quickly.

Carried him through the playoffs? I thought teams won playoffs. I don't think he called his teammates out anyways. I think the owner did, he called the experiment with Cassell and Spreewell a mistake. 24 ppg, 15 RPG, 5 APG, yeah the cancers really carried him in the playoffs.

Again, you act like teammates never call their co-teammates out. Jordan did throughout his career, even to Kwame, in Jordan's decline. The best players are supposed to step up and become the leader. KG might not be the quiet leader TD is, but I'd love to have KG in a Kings uniform. Guy does everything. He might not be as good as TD, but he doesn't get injured like TD, and he passes better than TD. He's been unfortunate to be in a team with less talent than most playoff teams. Honestly SA, has had talent, maybe not crazy talent but they've always had more than Minne.

 

[Senor Octubre]

Lets see... Starbury, Joe Smith, Wally Szczerbiak, Sam Cassell, Rasho Nesterovic, Michael Olowokandi, Latrell Sprewell, Chauncey Billups. All crazy TALENTED, but none of them put it together (besides Cassell) under Garnett's "leadership" and thats what counts. All of those guys are more talented than any guys Duncan had on his 99 & 03 teams with the acceptions of David Robinson in '99 and Parker and Rookie Ginobili in '03. All the other guys were role players, old injured stars or underachievers who Duncan made better and led to championship glory. Thats a task that Garnett will never accomplish and if he does you can call me out on it.

"I don't think he called his teammates out anyways"

You're right, I worded it incorrectly, I meant that someone in this thread said that, not Garnett. Its my fault for not clarifying it. BUT, that does remind me... after his "2002" playoff knockout, Garnett was asked why he couldn't make it past the first round and he said something to the tune of "well look what I've got for teammates". Its one thing to call a teammate out when he screws up, but for a so called "leader" to degrade his team (a team that featured a future NBA Finals MVP) to save his own skin, that's as low as it gets. I'm pretty sure Duncan wouldn't say that if his life depended on it. Maybe if Garnett didn't sign an Alex Rodriguez-esque contract, his owner could have afforded some "better teammates". Teammates are only as good as their leader makes them. So in the summer of '03 Mr. Garnett takes a pay cut (!). What a great guy, so instead of leeching 30 Million off of Taylor, he's only taking 25 Million of the team's cap-room. What a joke.

As for Mr. Taylor saying that the Cassell/Sprewell experiment was a mistake, its not a mistake to shed terrible salaries (smith, brandon) and help your team make it out of the first round and beyond for the first time ever.

"He's a better passer than TD"

Define better. Tim duncan has steadily averaged 3+ assists a game (decent for a power forward) for his career and he will find teammates when they need to be found. Garnett racks up all those "assists" by dominating the ball. Have you ever seen a "true franchise player" scream at a teammate for missing a shot that would give him a triple double? I did, and you'll never guess who it was. Kevin Garnett. Garnett's obsessed with his stats, and the only thing he is assisting 9 out of 10 times with those "assists" is his line in the boxscore. Ask any grassroots expert and they'll tell you just cuz a guy averages 6 assists doesn't mean he is a better passer.

For the record, none of this rant was meant in any offense to you or anyone in this thread, just Mr. Garnett. And in case anyone is wondering, no, I am not very fond of Kevin Garnett as a person or basketball player.

 

[Superman]

I'm not saying the Wolves and Lakers won't be in the hunt, I fully expect that they will. I just don't think they have the firepower to get back in. Maybe one of them does, but not both. As for the KG "myth" I mean the belief that he is some kind of ultra-competitor. Personally, I think he's just a jerk with a huge chip on his shoulder. I think that chip is related to something not politically correct to say, and I consequently do not like the guy. Let's just say there have been too many stories of him punching certain types of players in practices, year in and year out, and he even had altercations in high school that led to him transferring. He's a very talented player. Top 3? Sure, I guess. I just don't like him, nor do I have to. I think there are legitimate questions as to whether or not he will be able to lead his team back into the playoffs, and I am saying that he won't. Is that because I root against him? Sure. I don't think that dismisses the questions I have about the way that team is structured though.

When it comes to how good Kevin Garnett is on the court, your dislike for him as a person is largely irrelevant. Some people like Kobe Bryant; some hate his guts. Same thing can be said about Shaq, Tim Duncan, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, etc. But all of those players were/are winners, and are highly effective on the basketball court.

It seems like you don't like Garnett, and that somehow invalidates everything he's ever done in the NBA. I'm not defending any of his antics, especially all the fights he's had with teammates and all that other stuff, because I don't have to. When it comes to his abilities as a basketball player, they speak for themselves. He's a career 20/10/5 player also good for 1.5 steals and 1.5 blocks a game who doesn't miss games, and up to last season, hadn't missed the playoffs.

There's no NBA rule that says that only nice players make the postseason. I mean, some of the same things that people say about Garnett (gets into fights with teammates, hits teammates, over-competitive, etc.) were said about Jordan. And the only people that care are the people that didn't like him, but he still won championships.

I'm not saying that Garnett is going to win championships. I'm saying that he's one of the best players in the NBA, and that given his track record, with even a less-than-serviceable team, he's a good bet for the playoffs.

And if he does go on to win championships and more MVP trophies and Finals MVP trophies, when people look back on his career, they aren't going to remember or care that he got in a fight with Anthony Peeler as the Wolves put the Kings out of the playoffs in 2004, or that he punched a rookie in practice, or anything like that. People are going to comment on how good a competitor he was, maybe how he was one of the best ever. If he wins championships, that's all that will matter. And just like Michael Jordan, people will respect him for what he did on the basketball court, even if reluctantly.

And if the Wolves never return the the playoffs again with Kevin Garnett, he'll be just another superstar gone MIA. But I doubt that will happen. He's too good.

 

[bigbadred00]

You bring up dominating the ball BS. Webber dominated the ball according to some of you guys yet we averaged 2nd in the league in points. Dude, Garnett next to Webber is the best big man passer in the league hands down. I guess anyone who scores assists dominates the ball, that's the dumbest reason for having a lot of assists that many have used.

If you haven't watched him play that much. Again your wrong with how much he gets paid, how bout you do some research before you rant (17. I'm not saying his salary was alright, he was overpaid, all players are overpaid, but he's getting much less than previous. He's getting 18 million this year in fact.

Starbury LEFT Minnesota cause it was "too boring". Wally underperforms every year. Michael O, please man. The only players he's had that have been any good elsewhere are Starbury who is perinnelly fails in the playoffs, Sam, who is getting up there in age, Chauncey, who bounced around till he found a home in Detroit (he played in Toronto, Boston, and Denver before Minne) was a periennel underacheiver (3rd overall pick) until Detroit

Joe Smith, BLOWS, Rasho BLOWS, Nazr Mohammad severely outplayed him. Latrell was good last year, but he's spoiled. Is that KG's fault, I don't think so. If you want to list a bunch of underacheiving players than there's a list for you. Don't give me this great team BS, they blew e/c last year. I'm not a huge KG fan, but your really skewing what he's done.

Spurs had Daniels, Bruce Bowen, Milik Rose, etc. I'm not saying that the Wolves haven't had talented players. But most of them we'ren't that great there. I guess you can blame KG for it. But those players that you've listed have sucked in a lot of other places as well. I guess you can blame KG, the guy plays his butt off every night. I guess you call it stat padding, but the guy plays and plays well. How do you know Garnett is obsessed with Stats? you have 1 example, I bet he's obsessed with winning.

I guess Nash isn't much of a better passer than Duncan either, he severely dominates the ball, yet has 10 assists a game. I guess passing the ball to your teammates for scores, isn't a good passer. Was Webber a good passer? By your definition he dominated the ball. I'm pretty sure him, like KG, like Vlade are much better passers than Duncan. Duncan's holes are his FT shooting and his passing. Well it might be better than Average Joe, it's nothing special.

Honestly, I would trade most of our team for KG. If Petrie could surround him with a couple of good players we could definitely contend. Honestly did Michael win before he had a great 2nd fiddle? Didn't think so. KG hasn't had one yet. I guess you can include Starbury, but that guy's a cancer. Every team he leaves gets better, every team he joins finds a way to get worse.

 

[Senor Octubre]

Alright the key word here is talent. Talent, talent, talent. All of the players I mentioned had had more talent and abiltiy then 80 percent of the players on the spurs over the years. It was there job to recognize it and Garnetts job to help them achieve it. Mission Failed, the blame could be laid on both parties. We seem to have vastly different views on garnett as a player so we are going to have to agree to disagree before someone is offended.

And as for the Nash/Vlade argument it isn't even relevant. they don't dominate the ball (with the exception of nash in this years playoffs). Dominating the ball is controlling it, shooting, having in your hands constantly. Offenses are run through those two, its there job to distribute it. The offense isn't run through Garnett (except when he plays point guard), he is the go-to guy, running the team is Sam Cassells job in the wolves system. If they instituted the princeton offense then we'ed see just how good a passer garnett was. One thing I will say about in Garnetts defense. You cannot knock his all-around defensive versatility and efforts. I am done with this topic

 

[Venom]

Supe, honestly dude, I don't even know what your point is. I already said I think that team is poorly constructed, that KG is a bad leader and a jerk who shines on the media, and consequently they will miss the playoffs again. That, in a nutshell, is my thesis.

I agree, the fact that I dislike the guy has nothing to do with objectively rating his talent. He's Top 3, Top 5, #1, whatever. NBA history is riddled with talented guys who couldn't lead men, and I am putting him in that list. If, IF, he wins a title I look like a jackass here, you're right. But I feel pretty safe.

I hate these kinds of things, but I'm going to do it anyway; let's compare KG and Rasheed. More or less equally talented, been on similar teams, drafted in the same year. Rasheed has always been a good leader and locker room guy(excepting the Sabas towel toss), but he tells the media to kiss his ***, so the NBA public hates him. KG belittles his teammates on the court, is a tirading jerk, but he says the right things in the press conference, so the NBA public loves him. They're equally emotive on the court, so aside from media interpretation, there is no reason for one to be beloved and the other to be reviled. Eventually you have to ask why a team with a Top 3 guy on it continually bleeds talent? Is it just the money?

Now, that said, if Petrie swung a deal for KG, I would go ahead and become hypocrite #1 and buy a Garnett jersey

 

[Gargamel]

Gargamel-West is going to be pretty strong next year, on top of GSW improving, so will other teams. Locks for the playoffs are the following teams barring injuries: San Antonio, Suns, Denver, Houston, Dallas. That leaves 3 spots for the Sonics (?), Kings, Lakers, Jazz, Minne, and the Warriors to battle out.

How's Denver a lock? They had to burn *** to be in the running towards the end of the year.

As far as the final 3 spots, Sac may be in trouble too if they don't resign Mobley or get any free agents of repute. That's a full season without Webber. Don't count your chickens, buddy.

 

[jacobdrj]

I'll belive it when I see an X by their names in the standings... until then, they are cannon fodder.

 

[bigbadred00]

How's Denver a lock? They had to burn *** to be in the running towards the end of the year.

As far as the final 3 spots, Sac may be in trouble too if they don't resign Mobley or get any free agents of repute. That's a full season without Webber. Don't count your chickens, buddy.

Didn't I say we were not guaranteed? I said we would be fighting for the last of 3 spots, did I say we were a lock if your trying to be a smart ***.

Denver is a lock if they play anywhere near there end season level. I'm not saying they will but it's likely. Honestly what are they going to change? They'll probally get a better 2 guard, that's about it. I also said barring injuries.....something Denver's best players might have a problem with. No team is a real lock if you want to get technical, but I'm betting as long as TD is healthy, the Spurs make it, as long as Nash and Amare are healthy the Suns will make it. Dallas and Houston I guess are in. I guess you can put a ? by the Nuggets if you want to but I think they are pretty good, maybe that's just my opinion.

 

[Yoda]

How's Denver a lock? They had to burn *** to be in the running towards the end of the year.

As far as the final 3 spots, Sac may be in trouble too if they don't resign Mobley or get any free agents of repute. That's a full season without Webber. Don't count your chickens, buddy.

I sense a back to expansionism comment....

 

[VF21]

Ah, how I love the smell of testosterone in the morning...



bigbad & Gargamel: Now, now, gentlemen. Let's play nice, okay?

 

[bigbadred00]

Sorry but he makes the most obnoxious comments sometimes. If he'd bother to read what I wrote, it said the Kings weren't a lock. But obviously he think's I like to count the chickens before there hatched...? I don't get it.

 

[KingsRNumba1]

yeah other teams are getting better unfortunately that is not good for the kings