You can't have it both ways

[thesanityannex]

Wasn't Martin the second leading scorer in his class? and Garcia was projected to go as high as tenth in the draft and led Louisville to the final four. So, yes, I at least expect them to contribute when coming off the bench, and they haven't done that consistently.

When they do develop (hedo, wallace, mo evans etc), I fear we won't be able to afford them so it seems like a waste to me.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

When they do develop (hedo, wallace, mo evans etc), I fear we won't be able to afford them so it seems like a waste to me.

That sort of backwards thinking is why we don't have any young stars right now.

 

[Bballkingsrock]

Goood post VF21!
King can bounce back after 10-20 more games and come back doin what they do best which is yet to find out!

 

[thesanityannex]

That sort of backwards thinking is why we don't have any young stars right now.

not backwards thinking by me, just reality. the kings have developed numerous players, only to have them taken by other teams. just once, i wish we'd hold on to one of them.

 

[Kings113]

Wasn't Martin the second leading scorer in his class? and Garcia was projected to go as high as tenth in the draft and led Louisville to the final four. So, yes, I at least expect them to contribute when coming off the bench, and they haven't done that consistently.

When they do develop (hedo, wallace, mo evans etc), I fear we won't be able to afford them so it seems like a waste to me.

Evans is 27. I doubt he comes too much better or a borderline-all-star, but will be a very good player for ANY team. Showing it with us last year, and with Detroit now. I still love 'em.

We couldn't afford Mo because he changed his mind to a 1 mill. multi-year deal in late July to the qualifying offer area before that.

 

[Odoylerules]

. Martin and Garcia were taken with the 26th and 23rd picks of their respective drafts, not exactly two position known for being a hotbed of NBA talent...

2003 #28- Leandro Barbosa, #29 Josh Howard

2002 #23 Tayshaun Prince

2001 #25 Gerald Wallace, #26 Samuel Dalembert, #27 Jamaal Tinsley,
#28 Tony Parker

1999 #24 Andrei Kiralenko


Let's look at the Kings history of developing young talent:

1998: Jason Williams
1999: No 1st rounder
2000: Hedo Turkoglu
2001: Gerald Wallace
2002: Dan Dickau
2003: No pick
2004: Kevin Martin
2005: Francisco Garcia

Admittedly, the kings have not been in a good draft spot, although other teams have made do with similar spots. But lets be honest. For all the ballyhoo about the Kings talent scouts and whatnot, developing young talent is not our strength.

Peja is the only one that comes to mind, and look at what he's developed into. Mike, Brad, Bonzi, and Shareef all came up elsewhere.

Jason and Hedo are still contributing elsewhere....Dickau and especially Gerald are showing promise of turning into great players.

When you consider that Jason brought us Bibby, and Hedo helped bring Brad, it looks better, and I am in no way questioning Geoff's ability to turn lemons into lemonade....but developing talent here at home is a weakness.

 

[Kings113]

All of them have been guards or swingmen. That will change in future drafts now, as we have Garcia/Martin/Price (unless we let go one of them, but still). I expect us to draft frontcourt player(s) now.

For what became of J-Will/Hedo in Sac, I'll take.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

2003 #28- Leandro Barbosa, #29 Josh Howard

Kings didn't have a draft pick that year.

2002 #23 Tayshaun Prince

Kings traded that pick to Atlanta; and, it was six picks after Prince was taken, anyway.

2001 #25 Gerald Wallace, #26 Samuel Dalembert, #27 Jamaal Tinsley, #28 Tony Parker

I have yet to see any evidence supporting the opinion that Petrie picked the wrong guy.

1999 #24 Andrei Kiralenko

Again, no draft pick.

Sorry, I think your point was lost somewhere... My case was that the 26th and 23rd picks are not traditional hotbeds for NBA talent. And if you don't believe me, then I have something to show you... here are all the 26th and 23rd picks ever taken in the first round:

	23rd pick		26th pick
2005	Francisco Garcia	Jason Maxiell
2004	Sergei Monia		Kevin Martin
2003	Travis Outlaw		Ndui Ebi
2002	Tayshaun Prince		John Salmons
2001	Brandon Armstrong	Samuel Dalembert
2000	DeShawn Stevenson	Mamadou N'diaye
1999	Devean George		Vonteego Cummings
1998	Tyronn Lue		Sam Jacobson
1997	Bobby Jackson		Charles Smith
1996	Efthimis Rentzias	Jerome Williams
1995	Travis Best		Sherell Ford
1994	Wesley Person		Charlie Ward
1993	Ervin Johnson		Geert Hammink
1992	Lee Mayberry		David Johnson
1991	Stanley Roberts		Mark Randall
1990	Anthony Bonner		Lance Banks
1989	Roy Marble		Vlade Divac
1988	Jerome Lane		-
1987	Greg Anderson		-
1986	Ken Barlow		-
1985	AC Green		-
1984	Earl Jones		-
1983	Mitchell Wiggins	-
1982	Mark McNamara		-
1981	Charles Bradley		-
1980	Carl Nicks		-

By all means, feel free to point out the trend of lasting talent that gets taken at those spots to justify having the sort of expectations that are dumped on Martin and Garcia. Yeah, there are obviously a handful of good players in there, but not nearly enough to justify the opinion that players taken with those picks should be expected to produce immediately. Or even within 2-3 years. I mean, let's be real: none of those players ever became "great." Hell, only a few of them ever even became very good, and most of them only played in the NBA long enough to prove that they never had any business being in the NBA in the first place, so let's stop expecting the 26th and 23rd picks in generally weak drafts to immediately become impact players, and let's give them time to see what they become.

When you consider that Jason brought us Bibby, and Hedo helped bring Brad, it looks better, and I am in no way questioning Geoff's ability to turn lemons into lemonade....but developing talent here at home is a weakness.

So, your argument is that, since the Kings don't have a good track record for developing young talent, that it's not worthwhile to try? We're NOT going anywhere right now; what ELSE do we have to do?

 

[BigWaxer]

I have multiple personalities when it comes to this subject. I mostly agree with VF and then the other part of me says win win win at all costs. I think its the air in these parts messing with my head.

 

[Kings113]

Good Post, Slim.

 

[thesanityannex]

, so let's stop expecting the 26th and 23rd picks in generally weak drafts to immediately become impact players, and let's give them time to see what they become.

not asking them to become impact players, just to contribute SOMETHING off the bench consistently.

at golden state:

martin 5:35 min 0-3 fg 0 rebounds 0 assists 0 steals 0 blks
garcia 5:56 min 0-2 fg 1 rebound 0 assists 2 steals 1 blk


yes, they've had a few decent outings, but these are their typical nights. if martin is wanting more playing time, those stats aren't convincing coach anytime soon.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Neither of them "deserve" playing time... unless you're trying to develop young talent which, if we're not doing, we damned well should be.

 

[thesanityannex]

i'm all for developing young talent, as long as we hold on to it. lately, the kings have been somewhat like a farm team distributing their young talent around the league.

 

[KP]

People on this board take up way too much for our young bench. They have just been bad, there's no way around it. All we heard after this summer(even from the Kings organization themselves) was how great these guys looked in S league, how Kevin had really worked on his shot, had more presence, aggressiveness etc. IMO the guy looks more lost this year if anything. I like Kevin, and I want him to do well, but he just hasn't so far. Jason Hart is an even bigger dissapointment to me... he just can't seem to get anything going, and his defense has not been as advertised(again by the organization). The guy is a good defender(if you compare him to Mike) but in reality not good enough to make up for his sub-par offensive play(a la DC13). I'm sorry to say it but I got fooled too, I really was expecting a higher level of play from all of these guys. Garcia is a rookie so he gets some kinda pass(+ he's had his good moments), but overall our guard play off the bench has been a huge dissapointment, and it has hurt this team... along with a bunch of other things. It's not the only problem... or even the biggest problem... but it's definately a problem. I really hope they can turn it around and make some kind of impact.