QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
If you're gonna ask that question now, then you will never understand, sooooo...Why don't we just leave it at that and move on with our lives, huh???
Who Should The Kings Pursue in a Deadline Trade?
- Thread starter eleventy
- Start date
coolhandluke
Starter
They should trade for a new owner, new GM, and new Coach.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
You have my vote
eleventy
G-League
Previously, on page 1 of this thread, in searching for players we could obtain who might actually BE acquireable (if that is actually a word), I said this:
2) Pete Nance (6/10, son of Larry and brother of Larry Jr.). He has earned almost no money, is on a two-way, so, a trade would be an improvement for him. The Bucks played him a lot on Monday (in a close game), so, they may be showcasing him (he played well). And, the bonus is that now that you are talking to the Bucks, you just might inquire about Giannis (they'd have to be willing to take LaVine and we'd probably have to throw in Keegan, Keon and picks, but it might be doable (Doc Rivers is his coach and Bobby Jackson was his assistant coach previously in Philadelphia, so we at least have a "connection").
In light of the fact that Giannis will be out four to six weeks and the Bucks were already floundering, I think it is safe to say that the Bucks won't make even the play-in this season.
But who is going to pay Milwaukee a fortune if Giannis is of no help this year?
And won't some teams worry about drafting "damaged goods"?
This actually presents an opportunity for a team that is going nowhere this season and needs a real Batman (and is willing to take the risk).
Because I see no other avenues for this team, I WOULD take that risk.
Giannis is signed for three ears at around 60 mil per year.
But if they are willing to take on Zach's salary (and, of course, a bunch of young players, plus picks), this could actually be a doable trade.
The players I would NOT trade would be Sabonis, Reynaud and Cardwell (who, with Giannis would make a formidable group to play the 4/5.
Everyone else is on the table.
The Bucks may want to wait until the offseason to look for a huge trade package, but isn't it worth asking (but calling, to ask about Larry Nance and then see where the conversation goes).
I mean, it never hurts to ask, does it?
2) Pete Nance (6/10, son of Larry and brother of Larry Jr.). He has earned almost no money, is on a two-way, so, a trade would be an improvement for him. The Bucks played him a lot on Monday (in a close game), so, they may be showcasing him (he played well). And, the bonus is that now that you are talking to the Bucks, you just might inquire about Giannis (they'd have to be willing to take LaVine and we'd probably have to throw in Keegan, Keon and picks, but it might be doable (Doc Rivers is his coach and Bobby Jackson was his assistant coach previously in Philadelphia, so we at least have a "connection").
In light of the fact that Giannis will be out four to six weeks and the Bucks were already floundering, I think it is safe to say that the Bucks won't make even the play-in this season.
But who is going to pay Milwaukee a fortune if Giannis is of no help this year?
And won't some teams worry about drafting "damaged goods"?
This actually presents an opportunity for a team that is going nowhere this season and needs a real Batman (and is willing to take the risk).
Because I see no other avenues for this team, I WOULD take that risk.
Giannis is signed for three ears at around 60 mil per year.
But if they are willing to take on Zach's salary (and, of course, a bunch of young players, plus picks), this could actually be a doable trade.
The players I would NOT trade would be Sabonis, Reynaud and Cardwell (who, with Giannis would make a formidable group to play the 4/5.
Everyone else is on the table.
The Bucks may want to wait until the offseason to look for a huge trade package, but isn't it worth asking (but calling, to ask about Larry Nance and then see where the conversation goes).
I mean, it never hurts to ask, does it?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
It's not who, but what. The Kings should pursue every ping pong ball they can get their hands on. After that they should go after after youngins 24 or younger who have a shot at becoming a starter in this league. Ideally, they get a ton of 1sts and a young stud who people don't recognize a stud and begin their journey to an NBA championship.
BuddyBuckets
Bench
My guess for this deadline -
Keon goes for 2nds
Demar goes to a contender for an expiring
Russ maybe can grab a 2nd?
I don't see Sabonis getting moved. The toronto rumored deal is awful, saddling ourselves with 4 years of Poeltl is criminal.
LaVine surely has zero market.
Schroder/Monk are maybes. Theyve been playing good basketball. I think contenders should trade expirings for them, but those 3rd years may mean thats next deadline.
Our focus should be moving Sabonis, Demar, Russ. Need to prioritize youth and getting a top 3 draft pick!
Keon goes for 2nds
Demar goes to a contender for an expiring
Russ maybe can grab a 2nd?
I don't see Sabonis getting moved. The toronto rumored deal is awful, saddling ourselves with 4 years of Poeltl is criminal.
LaVine surely has zero market.
Schroder/Monk are maybes. Theyve been playing good basketball. I think contenders should trade expirings for them, but those 3rd years may mean thats next deadline.
Our focus should be moving Sabonis, Demar, Russ. Need to prioritize youth and getting a top 3 draft pick!
Padrino
All-Star
The Toronto rumor is interesting; 4 years of Poeltl is criminal if the Kings don't demand significant draft compensation in return. But if they are able to get significant draft compensation, then it's interesting. They'd be sending out a center in Sabonis who still has All-NBA talent, and they'd be receiving a contract in Poeltl that is... ugly. If TOR wants Sabonis and wants to offload Poeltl's contract, I'm poised to deal if they want to offer multiple unprotected future first rounders as part of their package.
BuddyBuckets
Bench
I have real reservations to this deal. It involves us taking Barrett + Poeltl. Barrett has another year of 30 million, development next year is going to be hampered by LaVine/Barrett chucking 30 shots a game.
Then you get into the Raptors with Sabonis-Barnes-Ingram-IQ which in the awful east is going to finish top 4.
So now we are talking about getting a few late round picks + taking on 2 bad contracts.
I really hate this idea. I'd be more inclined to just dump Sabonis to a team like Washington for expirings and move towards prioritizing development of our own top 5 picks.
In that case I'd rather just keep Sabonis and pair him with all the young guys since he makes the players around him better. It would be criminal to offload Sabonis for expirings. What are we going to do with the cap space? We won't have enough redundant young talent to trade for vets on contracts and we can't sign free agents here anyway.
For straight expirings? Even with his flaws and at his salary Sabonis is a high impact player and one of the best centers in the league. He’s worth assets on top of expirings. He probably won’t return elite picks/prospects, but you can’t let him go without assets coming back.
BuddyBuckets
Bench
That's what we've been doing for 2 decades. This team needs to bottom out. I agree, Sabonis helps make players around him better. That's why every year we sit in that 27-35 wins. Not enough for the playoffs, and not enough for a top 5 pick.
IF we get nothing for Sabonis, and then we get back to back top 5 picks, that will do way more for this team than keeping sabonis and getting pick 8 and 11 over the next 2 years. Then pretending we are ready to start competing again with rookies + 32 year old Sabonis due an extension.
BuddyBuckets
Bench
My preference would be to Washington for Middleton + Bilal.
But here is how i'd rank the options
1. Expirings + assets
2. Straight expirings no assets
3. Keep Sabonis
4. Trade to Toronto for awful salary + 1-2 late picks.
Obviously id love to get some value with expirings for Sabonis. But I'm very skeptical if thats available without us eating some really bad contracts. I'm extremely opposed to eating Poeltl/Barrett or Jalen Green. Sabonis is flawed and making massive money in an apron era where teams arent excited about that. We need to be realistic. This is why I called so hard for the team to sell him when they sold Fox. He hasn't done anything to help his value.
eleventy
G-League
Everyone here is "looking for picks".
I'm looking for players.
I realize that we are a small market team - so, let's look at how other small market teams do it.
Milwaukee has the third highest payroll in the league - mostly because of Giannis.
Because he would not stay unless the team was competitive, they went way over the cap.
But they are not winning and now Giannis is hurt - hurting his trade value.
This presents a possible opening for the Kings (and a way to nudge Vivek into "spending" some of that amassed capital in terms of "increased value of franchise".
But I would NOT include Sabonis in a trade - he is a guy that should pair well with Giannis and make him WANT to play here.
I would prefer to mortgage our draft picks by giving away a bunch (every other year, as the NBA wisely allows) and some young talent (Keon, maybe Keegan, certainly Devon, maybe even Malik, plus picks of course)
.
I know everyone here says, "Don't trade for a veteran - amass picks instead" but what if we could get Giannis (signed for three years at around sixty million per).
Normally we could NEVER compete for that kind of talent - but his injury should reduce the number of bidders and we HAVE a guy who is making similar money (but certainly not WORTH Giannis) in Zach Lavine.
We are certainly never going to get anything of value for Zach, but if we offered, say, Zach, Keon and either Keegan or Malik along with two (or even three) number one picks AND we keep this year's pick (probably to select a point guard), giving away our '27, '29 and '31 picks, then yes, we are tapped out for awhile on drafting, but we have Giannis/Sabonis as our 1/2 and DeRozen/Keegan as a number three.
if we can use Zach to acquire value (Giannis), we will have a three year window to actually contend for a championship.
I don't care if this becomes an "old" contending team - we can always rebuild later, but if we can acquire talent and contend, i'm for that.
And if we can't get Giannis, I (more reluctantly) make a deal where "Zach for Ja" is the piece that makes the "money work", but adding Schroeder and Saldama to the deal makes it work for me.
I'm looking for players.
I realize that we are a small market team - so, let's look at how other small market teams do it.
Milwaukee has the third highest payroll in the league - mostly because of Giannis.
Because he would not stay unless the team was competitive, they went way over the cap.
But they are not winning and now Giannis is hurt - hurting his trade value.
This presents a possible opening for the Kings (and a way to nudge Vivek into "spending" some of that amassed capital in terms of "increased value of franchise".
But I would NOT include Sabonis in a trade - he is a guy that should pair well with Giannis and make him WANT to play here.
I would prefer to mortgage our draft picks by giving away a bunch (every other year, as the NBA wisely allows) and some young talent (Keon, maybe Keegan, certainly Devon, maybe even Malik, plus picks of course)
.
I know everyone here says, "Don't trade for a veteran - amass picks instead" but what if we could get Giannis (signed for three years at around sixty million per).
Normally we could NEVER compete for that kind of talent - but his injury should reduce the number of bidders and we HAVE a guy who is making similar money (but certainly not WORTH Giannis) in Zach Lavine.
We are certainly never going to get anything of value for Zach, but if we offered, say, Zach, Keon and either Keegan or Malik along with two (or even three) number one picks AND we keep this year's pick (probably to select a point guard), giving away our '27, '29 and '31 picks, then yes, we are tapped out for awhile on drafting, but we have Giannis/Sabonis as our 1/2 and DeRozen/Keegan as a number three.
if we can use Zach to acquire value (Giannis), we will have a three year window to actually contend for a championship.
I don't care if this becomes an "old" contending team - we can always rebuild later, but if we can acquire talent and contend, i'm for that.
And if we can't get Giannis, I (more reluctantly) make a deal where "Zach for Ja" is the piece that makes the "money work", but adding Schroeder and Saldama to the deal makes it work for me.
eleventy
G-League
updating:
1) Charles Barkley took a big shot at the Kings ("they are not relevant") after the trade with Cleveland. He was right - unless they intend to trade Hunter for Kuminga (and have that lined up).
2) the guy i couldn't remember (who we should ask about - see opening post) is Nae' Qwon (Qwerty should like him) Tomlin, an undrafted big (Basketball reference lists him in separate places as either 6'10" or 6'8" - i tend to believe the latter) who has been a rotation player for the Cavs this year, who are supposedly waiting to change his two way contract to a regular contract, after they get done changing their roster. He is a guy I would have asked about and maybe Scott Perry did - or maybe he failed to do so.
3) JJJ was just traded (to Utah - edited, my bad), so, I guess Memphis saw the same thing I saw in Santi Aldama and would not have traded him, but Memphis must see his potential to trade away JJJ mostly for picks.
4) Which leaves us with Pete Nance and a chance to open a conversation with the Bucks about Giannis. I still like Nance as a cheap pickup, but I'm wondering if the Kings are somehow excluded from bidding because Giannis would not want to come here.
In the Fox (trade) case, he was able to determine exactly where he was traded. I'm not sure why other than to stay in the good graces of Klutch.
What I know about Giannis is that he was loyal to Milwaukee (probably stayed longer than he should have), a small market team, and is a religious man (as are Coach Christie and Dylan Cardwell - who would be paired with Giannis much of the time)
If you were talking about James Harden - entirely the opposite - a guy interested in all the money he can get, who certainly would never consider Sacramento (unless his other options were closed)
But WOULD Giannis say "No" to a trade to Sac? I'm not so sure, but at at LEAST Perry could "ask".
The only teams mentioned as being "in the hunt" are playoff teams (usual suspects, Warriors, Knicks, Wolves, Spurs, Lakers?)
All Milwaukee is saying that if a team "meets their demands" they get him.
What are their demands?
Supposedly a young piece to build around (Keegan qualifies, kind of) and three first round picks and they have to take Zach (to make the money work). Or, if the Bucks preferred (WE give them "choices"), they could have Hunter instead of Keegan (or Kuminga if we could obtain him for Hunter).
We have what Milwaukee demands (IF we want to mortgage our future). And we "could" toss in Carter or Monk (and select a guard in the draft).
So far, I haven't heard an offer that beats that.
IF we "make" the offer (which probably means that Scott and Vivek need to have a long talk),
Because if we don't at least "bid", then we must resign ourselves to NEVER winning a championship - but still having a team in Sactown (being thankful for small/big favors).
OK, everyone can now go back to thinking about a "rebuild", which will encounter the same problem - if Vivek will never go over the cap. then the Kings can draft well, but they'll have to sign and trade players (like they did with Cousins and Fox) when it comes time to "pay" them.
But imagine a frontcourt of Caldwell/Giannis or Sabonis/Renaud or Giannis/Sabonis down the stretch with Hunter or Kuminga at SF and a drafted lottery guard with Monk or Carter or Nique. That is a competitive nine and you can still get something for DeMarr (or keep him, after renegotiating his contract to a Schroeder-like deal).
Until Giannis is signed and traded somewhere else, I'm holding out hope.
1) Charles Barkley took a big shot at the Kings ("they are not relevant") after the trade with Cleveland. He was right - unless they intend to trade Hunter for Kuminga (and have that lined up).
2) the guy i couldn't remember (who we should ask about - see opening post) is Nae' Qwon (Qwerty should like him) Tomlin, an undrafted big (Basketball reference lists him in separate places as either 6'10" or 6'8" - i tend to believe the latter) who has been a rotation player for the Cavs this year, who are supposedly waiting to change his two way contract to a regular contract, after they get done changing their roster. He is a guy I would have asked about and maybe Scott Perry did - or maybe he failed to do so.
3) JJJ was just traded (to Utah - edited, my bad), so, I guess Memphis saw the same thing I saw in Santi Aldama and would not have traded him, but Memphis must see his potential to trade away JJJ mostly for picks.
4) Which leaves us with Pete Nance and a chance to open a conversation with the Bucks about Giannis. I still like Nance as a cheap pickup, but I'm wondering if the Kings are somehow excluded from bidding because Giannis would not want to come here.
In the Fox (trade) case, he was able to determine exactly where he was traded. I'm not sure why other than to stay in the good graces of Klutch.
What I know about Giannis is that he was loyal to Milwaukee (probably stayed longer than he should have), a small market team, and is a religious man (as are Coach Christie and Dylan Cardwell - who would be paired with Giannis much of the time)
If you were talking about James Harden - entirely the opposite - a guy interested in all the money he can get, who certainly would never consider Sacramento (unless his other options were closed)
But WOULD Giannis say "No" to a trade to Sac? I'm not so sure, but at at LEAST Perry could "ask".
The only teams mentioned as being "in the hunt" are playoff teams (usual suspects, Warriors, Knicks, Wolves, Spurs, Lakers?)
All Milwaukee is saying that if a team "meets their demands" they get him.
What are their demands?
Supposedly a young piece to build around (Keegan qualifies, kind of) and three first round picks and they have to take Zach (to make the money work). Or, if the Bucks preferred (WE give them "choices"), they could have Hunter instead of Keegan (or Kuminga if we could obtain him for Hunter).
We have what Milwaukee demands (IF we want to mortgage our future). And we "could" toss in Carter or Monk (and select a guard in the draft).
So far, I haven't heard an offer that beats that.
IF we "make" the offer (which probably means that Scott and Vivek need to have a long talk),
Because if we don't at least "bid", then we must resign ourselves to NEVER winning a championship - but still having a team in Sactown (being thankful for small/big favors).
OK, everyone can now go back to thinking about a "rebuild", which will encounter the same problem - if Vivek will never go over the cap. then the Kings can draft well, but they'll have to sign and trade players (like they did with Cousins and Fox) when it comes time to "pay" them.
But imagine a frontcourt of Caldwell/Giannis or Sabonis/Renaud or Giannis/Sabonis down the stretch with Hunter or Kuminga at SF and a drafted lottery guard with Monk or Carter or Nique. That is a competitive nine and you can still get something for DeMarr (or keep him, after renegotiating his contract to a Schroeder-like deal).
Until Giannis is signed and traded somewhere else, I'm holding out hope.
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eleventy
G-League
Thanks for the correction and you are correct that the Hunter trade would have to be a one for one.
Is Giannis on record as saying that?
Because I don't see him as a guy who thinks that way.
(his AGENT, THAT i would understand).
eleventy
G-League
I'd take that, but Ja is signed for longer, so, as i said when i opened this thread, my preference would be to make a move for Giannis, but if that failed, to make a move where the central pieces would be Zach and Ja, but we toss in Monk (previously, i said "Schroeder) to make the salaries match because what we REALLY want is for them to add Aldama to the trade - although it looks like they see him as JJJ's replacement, so, not sure they would throw him in. Devin (whose father is a Memphis assistant) would be an additional sweetener, but no real help in matching salaries.
One for one, I don't do that deal, but throw in Aldama and I'm on board.