Who is the "character pick" at 2?

[John Galt]

I've seen a lot of discussion about who has the highest floor or the highest ceiling. I wonder what people's assessments are on which guy is the hardest grinding obsessed health and gym rat out of the top players (Doncic/Ayton/Bagley/Porter). Feel free to propose/defend a dark horse.

I have the feeling that Bagley is this guy but I don't really know and I want to hear what the board thinks. I hear that Doncic eats junk food, that Porter is a vegan. Don't know how hard Ayton has had to try. Know that Pollard has raved about Bagley and I think character/work ethic is a big part of his eval.

I hope out of these 4 we get the hungriest guy (not for cheeseburgers Luka - for success). And I don't care if we cleverly trade back or just take him. But I don't want somebody lazy or entitled or complacent. I feel like Fox, Bogi, Buddy, Giles are hard-ass workers and I want to add one more.

Is it clear how the prospects rank on this element?

 

[Ozymandias]

Mo Bamba is the winner of this contest.

Bagley III has been training like he's a pro for a while now, way back several years ago he was getting advice/mentorship from Karl Towns Sr

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Doncic. You don’t get to his skill level without living in the gym. Bagley is a close second though. Followed by Porter. I am confident all three will maximize their toolsets. All three are easy culture fits with the Kings.

BTW, Doncic is getting slayed for his diet like all these kids don’t tank up on fast food when they get the chance. Look, all these kids have lived on the road for AAU, etc., and they weren’t millionaires with huge per diems going to nice restaurants. They will all have an adjustment to make when they hit the NBA. I guess Porter is the exception there.

 

[roasthawg]

All of these guys seem like high character/work ethic guys. Bagley with his motor, Bamba with his intelligence, Porter is a raw vegan, Doncic a pro for years already.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Character really isn't an issue for us at number 2. All the top guys seem to be coachable with no real history of any outbursts or something along those lines.

This is going to come down to the scouting that has been done and the workouts. It's really that close. There's 3-4 guys that we can take at number 2 and you wouldn't be able to get upset about it. We may have our favorites, but we are all aware that several prospects can make a case for the 2nd pick.

 

[Blob]

Being a vegan is NOT a plus. Another reason we better think no longer than a nano second about Michael Porter Jr. Veganism is better than a diet junk food but a man should eat grass fed meat. Its anabolic. Saturated fat, omega 3s and CLA from grass fed sources does a body good. A vegan diet is inflammatory too if it has grains and fruit with their high carbohydrate content. Awful. And don't get me started on soy milk and tofu that vegans consume with estrogenic properties. Disgusting! No athlete especially aspiring NBA player should consume that crap. I would hope for his sake Porter is not a militant vegan and the team that selects him would correct his diet to correct his scrawny frame and chicken legs.

 

[John Galt]

Being a vegan is NOT a plus. Another reason we better think no longer than a nano second about Michael Porter Jr. Veganism is better than a diet junk food but a man should eat grass fed meat. Its anabolic. Saturated fat, omega 3s and CLA from grass fed sources does a body good. A vegan diet is inflammatory too if it has grains and fruit with their high carbohydrate content. Awful. And don't get me started on soy milk and tofu that vegans consume with estrogenic properties. Disgusting! No athlete especially aspiring NBA player should consume that crap. I would hope for his sake Porter is not a militant vegan and the team that selects him would correct his diet to correct his scrawny frame and chicken legs.

He said he has given up Chipotle for good... sounds pretty militant to me

 

[roasthawg]

Being a vegan is NOT a plus. Another reason we better think no longer than a nano second about Michael Porter Jr. Veganism is better than a diet junk food but a man should eat grass fed meat. Its anabolic. Saturated fat, omega 3s and CLA from grass fed sources does a body good. A vegan diet is inflammatory too if it has grains and fruit with their high carbohydrate content. Awful. And don't get me started on soy milk and tofu that vegans consume with estrogenic properties. Disgusting! No athlete especially aspiring NBA player should consume that crap. I would hope for his sake Porter is not a militant vegan and the team that selects him would correct his diet to correct his scrawny frame and chicken legs.

It's about having the will power to stick to a restrictive diet. I agree that veganism isn't ideal for athletes but Tony Gonzalez made it work for him at the NFL level where there's a much bigger premium on muscle mass. Either way it speaks to the kids character that he is already focused on nutrition at a young age.

 

[est.1999]

He said he has given up Chipotle for good... sounds pretty militant to me

I’m a carnivore and I’ve given up chipotle for good because it’s terrible.

 

[Kingster]

Being a vegan is NOT a plus. Another reason we better think no longer than a nano second about Michael Porter Jr. Veganism is better than a diet junk food but a man should eat grass fed meat. Its anabolic. Saturated fat, omega 3s and CLA from grass fed sources does a body good. A vegan diet is inflammatory too if it has grains and fruit with their high carbohydrate content. Awful. And don't get me started on soy milk and tofu that vegans consume with estrogenic properties. Disgusting! No athlete especially aspiring NBA player should consume that crap. I would hope for his sake Porter is not a militant vegan and the team that selects him would correct his diet to correct his scrawny frame and chicken legs.

AWESOME POST!!

 

[Kingster]

Sounds to me that Bagley wins the contest so far. I'll go for the guy with the high motor who has been training like a pro for years. I don't hear any Ayton accolades, despite the body build. Doncic needs to reform his euro fast food ways.

Any word on Jackson's work habits and motor? From my observation, he does look to have a good motor on the court.

Are all these guys coachable? Do any look to be in the "entitled class"?

 

[Mike]

To be honest I don't think there is a "bad" selection in this year's top picks. Some years there are obviously high upside candidates that come with a questionable work ethic, perhaps like Michael Beasley who could have been a star but never made it because he didn't seem to want it enough. I think we should be fine with any of this year's picks.

 

[jcwkings]

I'd be happy with Doncic or Bagley to be honest. Doncic has the skills and IQ to be special and Bagley has the physical tools and motor to be special. Please stay away from Michael Porter. In the modern NBA he is neither a ideal 3 or 4. Get major Jeff Green vibes from him.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't see character questioned about any of these guys, except maybe Ayton's work ethic, which I think might be unfair.

Doncic may have an early edge in terms of coachability given he's a euro-pro instead of coming up through the US system where young players at the highest level are treated like royalty. But that's not a given at all.

 

[Sac.1989]

Are you guys seriously sitting here knocking vegan diets ?

Top tier athletes maintain they feel better on a vegan diet from an energy and output perspective. Thats enough for me.

The mental discipline and dedication to maintain a vegan diet is next level. Those are the types of guys i want.

Kyrie and Dame both credit veganism with quicker recovery.

Thor (Chirs Hemsworth) is vegan and maintained his muscle mass for the duration of Avengers on a vegan diet. Meat is hardly the only way to bulk and stay strong.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Know that Pollard has raved about Bagley

Let’s be real. Pollard has good insight on the kids coming through the Kansas pipeline. But aside from that, he’s no more right (or wrong) than the rest of us.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Doncic. You don’t get to his skill level without living in the gym.

Even if he hasn’t, things will surely change once the Kings or some other staff gets a hold of him. If he’s this good now with poor diet (allegedly) I imagine he’ll be even better once he learns what he needs to do to take care of himself.

 

[John Galt]

Let’s be real. Pollard has good insight on the kids coming through the Kansas pipeline. But aside from that, he’s no more right (or wrong) than the rest of us.

Couldn’t disagree more with this premise. Unless by “the rest of us” you mean the rest of NBA veterans who have been there/done it - battled in the trenches. Yes ... I think his opinion is worth more than most. I don’t think everyone with internet access has equal scouting acumen

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Couldn’t disagree more with this premise. Unless by “the rest of us” you mean the rest of NBA veterans who have been there/done it - battled in the trenches. Yes ... I think his opinion is worth more than most. I don’t think everyone with internet access has equal scouting acumen

C'mon, JG. Pollard played in a different era, first and foremost, and was a plodding big man to boot. You're fooling yourself if you believe he has any more skill evaluating talent than anyone else.

Sure, he is part of the KU broadcast crew and sees those guys practice and play all the time. So he's like any local beat writer in that regard. But in terms of scouting talent, his playing experience doesn't mean jack. If it did, every former player would be good at it.

Being a former player doesn't automatically qualify anybody as a coach, GM, scout, talent evaluator, whatever. They have insight into what it was like to be a player and everything that goes with that, but that doesn't translate to talent evaluator.

The one area he does have intimate knowledge is the techniques of a big man. But for the most part, NBA big men today don't play the same way as they did in Scot's day so his insight there is even marginalized.

In summary, the "he played the game so he knows more than we do" card is quite flawed. Last I checked, Rockets GM Daryl Morey had no NBA experience as a player or coach .... just some advanced degrees and he seems to be decent at his job. He's far from the only one.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I don’t think everyone with internet access has equal scouting acumen

Equal across the board, no. But there are plenty knowledgeable people out there with nothing but their long experience following the sport, a high IQ and the ability to watch these players via a myriad of different mediums. It's a mistake to discount anyone just because they didn't actually play in the league or even in college. It's also a mistake to assume a former player has more credibility or natural ability in evaluating talent and/or putting a team together.

I'm sure there are many on this board that believe they could have accomplished more than Vlade Divac has to this point in time and for all we know, they very well could be right.

 

[John Galt]

C'mon, JG. Pollard played in a different era, first and foremost, and was a plodding big man to boot. You're fooling yourself if you believe he has any more skill evaluating talent than anyone else.

Sure, he is part of the KU broadcast crew and sees those guys practice and play all the time. So he's like any local beat writer in that regard. But in terms of scouting talent, his playing experience doesn't mean jack. If it did, every former player would be good at it.

Being a former player doesn't automatically qualify anybody as a coach, GM, scout, talent evaluator, whatever. They have insight into what it was like to be a player and everything that goes with that, but that doesn't translate to talent evaluator.

The one area he does have intimate knowledge is the techniques of a big man. But for the most part, NBA big men today don't play the same way as they did in Scot's day so his insight there is even marginalized.

In summary, the "he played the game so he knows more than we do" card is quite flawed. Last I checked, Rockets GM Daryl Morey had no NBA experience as a player or coach .... just some advanced degrees and he seems to be decent at his job. He's far from the only one.

You're quite adamant and that's fine. I think Scot Pollard could do a better job that Daryl Morey - who has an owner willing to be a tax team and paid Kyle Anderson infinity money to rot on the bench. I think you could do a better job than Daryl with his resources how about that.

I like and respect Scot more than you do - I think he's a special smart jock, not just a jock. I think he is smarter than me at evaluating talent, and that he's smarter than 90% of this board (everyone except Blob and the crab guy) at evaluating talent. Don't want to argue about it this is just a matter of opinion. I do respect what smart former players think more than what most message board dudes think, in general. Willing to live the the consequence of that flawed reasoning so it's all good.

 

[jcassio]

Are you guys seriously sitting here knocking vegan diets ?

Top tier athletes maintain they feel better on a vegan diet from an energy and output perspective. Thats enough for me.

The mental discipline and dedication to maintain a vegan diet is next level. Those are the types of guys i want.

Kyrie and Dame both credit veganism with quicker recovery.

Thor (Chirs Hemsworth) is vegan and maintained his muscle mass for the duration of Avengers on a vegan diet. Meat is hardly the only way to bulk and stay strong.

I was wondering if anyone here would question the "they need to eat meat" assertions! That's so out of date and mis-informed. But, you can be a vegan and eat poorly. However, if you eat a plant-based, whole foods diet, that's where the latest health research is pointing. And technically, it is a "vegan diet." But so is a french fries diet (if cooked in vegetale oil).

 

[Blob]

I was wondering if anyone here would question the "they need to eat meat" assertions! That's so out of date and mis-informed. But, you can be a vegan and eat poorly. However, if you eat a plant-based, whole foods diet, that's where the latest health research is pointing. And technically, it is a "vegan diet." But so is a french fries diet (if cooked in vegetale oil).

The best diet is anti-inflammatory. A ketogenic diet is anti-inflammatory. A ketogenic diet with intermittent fasting (or minimal caloric intake with no carbohydrate) induces cellular repair (autophagy) and detoxification . You basically kill cancer cells (which we all have) and free radicals before they proliferate. You don't experience these benefits on a high grain (vegan) diet. This is where the health research is pointing. It has pointed this way for over 50 years but the sugar industry buried this information and vilified saturated fat. This coincided with the reckless food pyramid from the government (paid for by the sugar lobby) and a rising epidemic of obesity and disease. America has never been fatter or less healthy.

A vegan diet does not address these issues because they still allow grains. And they allow legumes and peanut butter? Gross! Those foods have anti-nutrient properties which prevent absorption of vitamins and minerals. Now a high performing athlete can include carbohydrate post workout to help complete the anabolic process. Muscle cells are most receptive to nutrient uptake and fat cells resistant to glucose post workout. So if you go hard in the gym you can make room for carbohydrate after you train to refill muscle glycogen and induce protein synthesis. Fruit by the way doesn't do this job as well as say, potato fries fried in coconut oil with spicy organic ketchup, which is what I had post-workout last night.

Set aside the question of meat for a second. If you asked what is the perfect food ? Well, I would consider leafy greens (mustard greens, collard greens, spinach, kale), avocado, grass fed steak, and even the olive, but the winner would be the pastured egg. The pastured egg is NOT allowed on a vegan diet! Criminal! There is a big difference between a factory and pastured egg with its orange yolk, high omega 3s, complete protein source. When the hens are free to roam in the open air and subsist off a natural diet of insects or grub instead of force fed junk, they produce this natures perfect food....

And the vegans say "no thanks" to the pastured egg! Pass the pea protein powder!

When you eliminate grass fed meat, whey protein and pastured eggs, and if you are dairy tolerant, plain whole fat Greek and Bulgarian yogurt, grass fed cheese (yum), grass fed butter (yum), ghee, etc, you are shifting your macros (protein / fat / carb) away from these satiating anabolic cognitive fueling food sources to glucose spiking foods. When you are spiking glucose and insulin that is when you have to have "will power" and "discipline". Hunger and cravings occur when blood glucose falls. Then you stay on the glucose roller coaster. When you shift your diet away from carbohydrate, except post-workout, you do not need willpower. You break the addiction to grains (refined and unrefined) and sugar. This is why a Vegan diet is flawed and why you should grill yourself up a nice yummy t-bone (grass fed) tonight

 

[kingsboi]

The best diet is anti-inflammatory. A ketogenic diet is anti-inflammatory. A ketogenic diet with intermittent fasting (or minimal caloric intake with no carbohydrate) induces cellular repair (autophagy) and detoxification . You basically kill cancer cells (which we all have) and free radicals before they proliferate. You don't experience these benefits on a high grain (vegan) diet. This is where the health research is pointing. It has pointed this way for over 50 years but the sugar industry buried this information and vilified saturated fat. This coincided with the reckless food pyramid from the government (paid for by the sugar lobby) and a rising epidemic of obesity and disease. America has never been fatter or less healthy.

A vegan diet does not address these issues because they still allow grains. And they allow legumes and peanut butter? Gross! Those foods have anti-nutrient properties which prevent absorption of vitamins and minerals. Now a high performing athlete can include carbohydrate post workout to help complete the anabolic process. Muscle cells are most receptive to nutrient uptake and fat cells resistant to glucose post workout. So if you go hard in the gym you can make room for carbohydrate after you train to refill muscle glycogen and induce protein synthesis. Fruit by the way doesn't do this job as well as say, potato fries fried in coconut oil with spicy organic ketchup, which is what I had post-workout last night.

Set aside the question of meat for a second. If you asked what is the perfect food ? Well, I would consider leafy greens (mustard greens, collard greens, spinach, kale), avocado, grass fed steak, and even the olive, but the winner would be the pastured egg. The pastured egg is NOT allowed on a vegan diet! Criminal! There is a big difference between a factory and pastured egg with its orange yolk, high omega 3s, complete protein source. When the hens are free to roam in the open air and subsist off a natural diet of insects or grub instead of force fed junk, they produce this natures perfect food....

And the vegans say "no thanks" to the pastured egg! Pass the pea protein powder!

When you eliminate grass fed meat, whey protein and pastured eggs, and if you are dairy tolerant, plain whole fat Greek and Bulgarian yogurt, grass fed cheese (yum), grass fed butter (yum), ghee, etc, you are shifting your macros (protein / fat / carb) away from these satiating anabolic cognitive fueling food sources to glucose spiking foods. When you are spiking glucose and insulin that is when you have to have "will power" and "discipline". Hunger and cravings occur when blood glucose falls. Then you stay on the glucose roller coaster. When you shift your diet away from carbohydrate, except post-workout, you do not need willpower. You break the addiction to grains (refined and unrefined) and sugar. This is why a Vegan diet is flawed and why you should grill yourself up a nice yummy t-bone (grass fed) tonight

since we are on the subject, I feel Vegan diets are only beneficial to an individual in the short term but for the long term there are too many vitamins, minerals & nutrients that are depriving the person over time that you can and should get through food and not live on popping supplements for Iron, Zinc, Potassium, Glucose, etc etc etc. I'm not saying there haven't been people who have prospered on a Vegan diet for a "x" amount of years but more often than not, I have spoken to and heard stories of those on Vegan diets tend to have a lack of energy, constant fatigue, hair loss, mood swings, etc.

As you've mentioned, eating quality protein is the key here. You go out and buy cheap, hormone filled Chicken, Steak, etc. it's no wonder America is as unhealthy as it is despite having some great resources and free information all over the web to educate those who are willing to make a change. How one prepares its food is key too....one has to use the right amount of oil, not overcook/undercook, deep frying, constantly grilling. A lot of factors play into this, its about moderation and variety in my opinion. These Vegan diets filled with vegetables and exluding all and any type of Animal protein is simply not the way humans were brought up from the beginning of time and that won't change either, but I digress.

 

[roasthawg]

There's a lot of ways to skin a cat when it comes to diet. I've done keto/if for three years. Currently run high protein/carbs low fat. Protein is the key and choosing one of fats or carbs. That's what I've learned from trial and error over the years. I know some very fit vegans and vegetarians.

 

[SacTownKid]

When coach K says he's never been around a player like you it means Bagley is on another level of character.

 

[SacTownKid]

You're quite adamant and that's fine. I think Scot Pollard could do a better job that Daryl Morey - who has an owner willing to be a tax team and paid Kyle Anderson infinity money to rot on the bench. I think you could do a better job than Daryl with his resources how about that.

I like and respect Scot more than you do - I think he's a special smart jock, not just a jock. I think he is smarter than me at evaluating talent, and that he's smarter than 90% of this board (everyone except Blob and the crab guy) at evaluating talent. Don't want to argue about it this is just a matter of opinion. I do respect what smart former players think more than what most message board dudes think, in general. Willing to live the the consequence of that flawed reasoning so it's all good.

I'd rather Scot get a chance to do a better job than most at doing color commentary with the Kings, or how about taking over DC's role on the pregame? He would be tremendous as a full time color commentator at the pro level. Scot's a smart person in general, I think his opinion when weighted against his experience is far more valid than most others.