What kind of team are we building?

[Luv4Kings]

Man this is weird having two discussions at once... feels weird posting after myself.

Anyways the Portland example is a bit off since last year was the first time a rebuilt Blazer team went to the playoffs. They were pretty much the youngest team in the playoffs. It takes a trip into the playoffs to get your feet wet as its a whole different game.

Also I couldn't disagree with you more about the playoffs. They are more suited to teams with stars than to teams that spread the ball around. The defense gets tighter, the transition offense goes away and scoring in general becomes much much tougher in a playoff atmosphere. When that happens you need to have a guy who can be individually dominant, who demands a double team and can beat that double team.

It seems strange saying you can build around superstars and it will never work given how many titles guys like MJ and Kobe have won. I'll agree with you that you can't have a team with 1 star and a bunch of average players, thats pretty obvious and its why the Kings are a bad team this year. But saying that you don't win titles by having a star centered team is ignoring a whole lot of basketball history. Heck it's ignoring our own history... it wasn't Derrick Fisher and Robert Horry and Rick Fox that beat the Kings in 2002 (game 6 aside). In fact I think we can say that of the top 10 players in that series probably 8 of them were Kings.

The Kings offense doesn't look bad right now because of Tyreke, it looks bad because its still full of those guys who won 17 games last year. Either they aren't good or they are really young and raw.

Right, "it wasn't Derrick Fisher and Robert Horry and Rick Fox that beat the Kings in 2002 (game 6 aside). " but it wasn't Kobe either. Look at Kobe's numbers in that playoff series. They weren't great.

It was Shaq. It was the fact that no one was allowed to guard Shaq. It was that Shaq was allowed offensive foul after offensive foul - in combination with Kobe. You have to pick who to double on defense which is why Fisher, Horry and Fox were able to make outside shots almost unguarded.

Without Shaq, we'd have easily won that series - no contest.

But...ugh... I get a sick feeling just remembering that series. I'd rather not.

 

[Luv4Kings]

What Brick is trying to say (and I 100% agree) is that "teamwork" does not equal "team play".

"TeamworK" = everyone knowing their roles, and executing them to perfection. 90's Bulls are a great example, as well as the Lakers/Spurs this decade.

"Team play" = Everyone sharing and distributing the ball, all trying to score an equal amount of points and having no true dominant player. This has never really worked on the big stage in the NBA with the exception of the fluke 2004 title by Detroit.

And it's obvious that the Kings are not going to the Pistons model anyway. I don't think anyone proposed that we do.

We have Tyreke. Obviously we will be a star-centered team. My question is, after realizing that is very different from what we had in the Webber team, what will our new team look like?

Specifically, does Petrie keep accumulating "wingmen"? Or if he wants a dominant big man, how far will he go (how much will he spend and give up) to get one? And what big man is even out there?

 

[Luv4Kings]

That is the logic. He's saying that the idea of team play being pushed forward here by some is that all 5 players on the court get equal standing in the offense. This notion is definitely not true, and a team built around 2 or more obviously superior players surrounded by role players can also operate as a non-dysfunctional (like that double negative there?) unit. That's what he's getting at. And I agree.

I must have missed where anyone proposed a team where "all 5 players on the court get equal standing in the offense" because I honestly can't think of an example of a team that fits that description. Ever.

 

[Luv4Kings]

I dont think Petrie even knows what kind of team hes building. The Kings are in the early stages of assembling talent and seeing what happens. Hopefully the front office puts together a defensive minded team. With the right mix of offensive ability a defensive minded team can be a perennial championship contender. With Evans leading the charge Id like to see this Kings team be reminiscent of the 1988-1990 Detroit Pistons team. One star, marginal offensive ability, a whole lot of defense.

Oh, ooops. I didn't see your post about wanting the Pistons style team. Sorry.

I hope Petrie knows what kind of team he's building because if he doesn't, we're in big trouble!

And picking Evans in the draft means we will not be the Pistons. We need to be the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, or something similar.

 

[Kingster]

What kind of team are we building here? A "star-centric" team or an "everyone contributes" team?

Star-centric teams like the Iversion 76ers, the LeBron Cavs, and the Kobe Lakers - are we going to be the Evans Kings?

The old team we were used to at the turn of this Century (boy, sounds like a long time ago!) was an "everyone contributes" team. We had a big name in Webber, but he wasn't the kind of player to have the ball all the time. It was a pass and then pass again team where anyone could be the star that night - from Doug Christie to Mike Bibby.

Now our team has 1 real point guard and he comes off the bench. We have a bunch of swingmen playing the 1 through the 4 most of the time and basically 1 center who was benched last game.

So we are now "Evans" team and just what does that mean? Does he need to have the ball 90% of the time to be effective? Will everyone else just stand around and watch? He's a huge talent, but is it the kind of talent that wins championships? Or the kind that has "wow" moments in games but doesn't win much?

We've got a bunch of Petrie "individual basketball players" without a purpose or any unity.

Will one big man really make the difference? One more draft pick? An off-season signing?

I'm not seeing it.

You're not seeing it because right now it's a messy mixture of a bunch of guys who are finding their way in the NBA, who are evolving and growing and regressing, and losing and complaining and winning (some) and growing some more. And the coach is evolving with them. You're looking at a snapshot of a mess, but with a video camera you'll be able to go back two years from now and see the process of how these players evolve into a team. You'll be able to see when some players got it, and maybe see where some players just never did get it. There is no predetermined outcome for how this team is going to develop. There is no template. It's uncertain and undetermined. That's why it's so interesting to watch. Because none of us really know how these players are going to meld into this amalgam that we call a team.

 

[pshn80]

But...ugh... I get a sick feeling just remembering that series. I'd rather not.

Not my experience at all. Remembering that series and everything that went with it is what helps we get through worse times like these last several years. No, those are fond memories for me.

 

[Luv4Kings]

You're not seeing it because right now it's a messy mixture of a bunch of guys who are finding their way in the NBA, who are evolving and growing and regressing, and losing and complaining and winning (some) and growing some more. And the coach is evolving with them. You're looking at a snapshot of a mess, but with a video camera you'll be able to go back two years from now and see the process of how these players evolve into a team. You'll be able to see when some players got it, and maybe see where some players just never did get it. There is no predetermined outcome for how this team is going to develop. There is no template. It's uncertain and undetermined. That's why it's so interesting to watch. Because none of us really know how these players are going to meld into this amalgam that we call a team.

True, looking at them now, it's just a mess.

Interesting that you feel there is no template. I suppose it's entirely possible that Petrie waits and watches and can go in any direction.

It always has to come down to "In Petrie We Trust", doesn't it?

 

[Kingstime]

And it's obvious that the Kings are not going to the Pistons model anyway. I don't think anyone proposed that we do.

We have Tyreke. Obviously we will be a star-centered team. My question is, after realizing that is very different from what we had in the Webber team, what will our new team look like?

Specifically, does Petrie keep accumulating "wingmen"? Or if he wants a dominant big man, how far will he go (how much will he spend and give up) to get one? And what big man is even out there?

Nowhere. Outside of Orlando there isn't a dominant 7fter in the NBA.

Our new team should be filled with spot up shooters, reliable-handed big men who can dunk and a pick and roll/pop specialist. In a couple years if Donte and Omri keep working they will be our spot up shooters. It's still up in the air if Spence will become a reliable big, JT is definately gonna be a energy big off the bench. Once Reke develops a consistent jumper he is gonna have to add the pick n roll/pop to his game and he will need a big man to play the 2 man game with him.

 

[Luv4Kings]

Nowhere. Outside of Orlando there isn't a dominant 7fter in the NBA.

Our new team should be filled with spot up shooters, reliable-handed big men who can dunk and a pick and roll/pop specialist. In a couple years if Donte and Omri keep working they will be our spot up shooters. It's still up in the air if Spence will become a reliable big, JT is definately gonna be a energy big off the bench. Once Reke develops a consistent jumper he is gonna have to add the pick n roll/pop to his game and he will need a big man to play the 2 man game with him.

And who's going to stop the other team from walking right to the basket with layup after layup. That's our weakness now. We have lots of shooters and guys that can score. But it's most frustrating to see a great play from us last the 5 seconds it takes the other team to waltz to the other hoop and negate it.

We certainly need more reliable hands from our bigs but I'd be happy for one that could actually box-out on defense instead of standing around waiting for the ball to bounce to them while the other guy walks right in front of them and slams the dunk or grabs the rebound.

 

[Rookie]

And who's going to stop the other team from walking right to the basket with layup after layup.

Team defense...which we don't have at the moment because our guys are lost and confused. I don't believe any young team with new players moving in and out over the season can expect to play team defense/offense successfully.

 

[Kingstime]

And who's going to stop the other team from walking right to the basket with layup after layup. That's our weakness now. We have lots of shooters and guys that can score. But it's most frustrating to see a great play from us last the 5 seconds it takes the other team to waltz to the other hoop and negate it.

I have no idea where that guy is, because the funniest part about people who want to max out Bosh, he's not that guy. We are gonna have to draft that guy and watch him develop. There's no fixing our big man shot blocking defense problem through a trade or anything because those guys are not being given away for anything we want to give up. When thinking about it more as the season developed I don't even think we'd be happy with Okafor.

We have to keep our fingers crossed that the draft can solve that area for our team.