Stan.Helsing
G-League
Just a wish.
What has to happen to move forward next year
- Thread starter sactowndog
- Start date
Telemachus
Starter
I like Herb Jones as a player, but I think a lot of fans around here are overrating him. If I'm going after a wing on NO, I would much prefer Trey Murphy.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
I'm not over-rating Herb, know exactly what he can and can't do. What I like is his fit with this roster (especially if the FO lets Barnes walk and signs Cam Johnson instead). That's cause I feel this roster will have enough shooters and play-makers to cover him... but really needs a lengthy lead defender on Forwards.
My full current wish-list...
- Trade Davion and #24 to the Pelicans for Herbert.
- Sign Austin Reaves from the Lakers, 4-years @ $80M.
- Trade Huerter and Holmes to the Nets for Cam Johnson (S&T, 4 years @ $100M?).
- Sign Naz Reid for the NTMLE ($12M per season?).
- Trade 2nds to the Knicks for Jericho Sims, to help deal with Giannis/Embiid/Jokic... and for some entertainment with his dunks. I would especially like to see him catch Lebron, Draymond, Embiid, Gobert, KAT and Jaylen Brown with a poster.
Fox/Monk, Reaves/Davis, Murray/Herbert, Cam/Lyles, Sabonis/Naz/Sims
The number of combinations for different match-ups are endless. Anyway, these deals may be hard to pull off... but if the Kings FO can do them all... it would probably be the deepest roster I have seen in a long time, and yet one that could be kept together for a long time too. It's the sort of team I feel is needed to actually win the whole thing, and not just make up the numbers by reaching the WCF or NBA finals and then lose.
My full current wish-list...
- Trade Davion and #24 to the Pelicans for Herbert.
- Sign Austin Reaves from the Lakers, 4-years @ $80M.
- Trade Huerter and Holmes to the Nets for Cam Johnson (S&T, 4 years @ $100M?).
- Sign Naz Reid for the NTMLE ($12M per season?).
- Trade 2nds to the Knicks for Jericho Sims, to help deal with Giannis/Embiid/Jokic... and for some entertainment with his dunks. I would especially like to see him catch Lebron, Draymond, Embiid, Gobert, KAT and Jaylen Brown with a poster.
Fox/Monk, Reaves/Davis, Murray/Herbert, Cam/Lyles, Sabonis/Naz/Sims
The number of combinations for different match-ups are endless. Anyway, these deals may be hard to pull off... but if the Kings FO can do them all... it would probably be the deepest roster I have seen in a long time, and yet one that could be kept together for a long time too. It's the sort of team I feel is needed to actually win the whole thing, and not just make up the numbers by reaching the WCF or NBA finals and then lose.
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Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
MIKAL BRIDGES will have a gigantic plate of lasagna with extra sauce waiting for him if he comes to Sac.
notoriousBEN3
Bench
I’ve always thought Bridges would be perfect here, but I have to assume the asking price is going to be astronomical.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I hope Monte is willing to sacrifice all the depth if he is targeting Mikal or OG. Bullock is more attainable but I'm not necessarily a fan of him, he's way too up and down.
not sure how we get Bridges or Anunoby, but I like the sound of it.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Ok I found the article referred to and it most certainly is not “reporting” that the Kings are targeting anyone. It’s another Bleacher Report gem making idle speculations about who the Kings “could” or “may” want to target:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...top-trade-targets-after-2023-nba-playoff-loss
sorry to rain on the parade.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...top-trade-targets-after-2023-nba-playoff-loss
sorry to rain on the parade.
reptilexcq2
Bench
I don't think you can get Reid for $12M...it's got to be in the Austin Reaves range.
Acquiring Mikal Bridges is a pipe dream at this point but OG is at least somewhat plausible. Okongwu is still the guy who ticks the most boxes for me. Defends wings and bigs at a high level, strong rebounder (especially offensively), top 10 shot blocker, can finish lobs above the rim and punish teams who go small. The only thing he needs is a consistent jumpshot and he'd be a perfect fit for us on both ends.
I would love to see a team with Davion Mitchell, Matisse Thybulle, and Onyeka Okongwu all playing big minutes in the rotation. Add that level of defense to what this Kings team showed they could do on offense this year and you'd have a potential #1 seed.
I would love to see a team with Davion Mitchell, Matisse Thybulle, and Onyeka Okongwu all playing big minutes in the rotation. Add that level of defense to what this Kings team showed they could do on offense this year and you'd have a potential #1 seed.
Jones2006
Bench
Big fan of him, but I don't see Atlanta being that stupid to trade him. I also don't see him as a perfect fit here since he's too much like Sabonis offensively, and he's too good to just play 15 mpg. Atlanta was so obviously limiting his minutes this year to 20 just so they could resign him to a more team friendly deal in my opinion. He's a starting level big, and a Top 10/15 one at that imo.
My opinion is the Kings shouldn't do anything too crazy when they don't have to with the backup center spot. I mean Len's work with the 2nd unit the final stretch of the season & playoffs was pretty solid; of course if a better option is available sign him but why not just keep rolling with Len? They didn't lose in the Playoffs because the non-Sabonis minutes were mediocre; it was the opposite that when Sabonis was in they weren't elite, or their forwards weren't good enough around him. So their main target should be on improving the forward positions in my opinion OR get a big that can play PF next to Sabonis at times.
I'm not talking about the backup C spot. Okongwu is a future starting PF. He's playing C right now because the jumpshot isn't quite there yet but he was 5 for 14 from 3 this season (35.7%) and 153 for 196 from the free throw line (78.1%) so there's signs that he'll add that to his game soon. More importantly, he's already guarding wings and even lead ballhandlers on the perimeter and holding his own.
Whether he's available or not... we'll see. Atlanta is going to pay $13 million in luxury tax next season and the only guy coming off the cap next summer when Okongwu's rookie contract ends is Dejounte Murray. Is the owner who was too cheap to pay Kevin Huerter last year suddenly going to be okay paying $50 million in luxury tax 2 years later to keep Okongwu and Murray? I doubt it. Letting Murray walk would be a disaster. Something has to give there.
serbiangoat
Starter
Yeah getting Bam 2.0 would be amazing get.
ockingsfan
Starter
I would think an offer in the $14-16 mil/year range per year and a clear path to a starting power forward job could get Naz Reid. There are only a handful of teams with cap space and an opening in the starting line up for Naz. And of those teams with both, the Kings have the best record and best shot to compete for a championships sooner rather than later.
I think it comes down to what Monte will be targeting in the off season, stability (re-sign HB) or take a swing at the fences (sign Naz Reid) and hope he fills in all the holes in the Kings starting line up for shot blocking, defense and length, along with spacing. IMHO, I'm hoping he signs Naz Reid.
Yeah, I'm with you for sure. I think we get so hung up on "This dude can't fit" when to me, that's the wrong question to be asking. Titles are basically won by generational talents and elite defenses.... the Kings aren't going to have the generational talent and they're certainly nothing close to an elite defense. So even if the fit isn't clean, I think there has to be some level of choice; Do we want to maintain the elite offense and hope the ancillary guys can come to play in the playoffs? Or do you sacrifice some level of offensive fit to boost our defense to respectable levels.
That's why I'm so heavy on the Naz Reid train. I want to bet on a young talent that has a chance to be a star. Naz has that stat profile. So does Okongwu. Even if it's not super clean as a fit, I think those are the type of gambles you have to make to bridge the superstar gap and the defensive gap honestly.
I think he's a really good young player but the odds are low of him ever being able to work next to Sabonis. You're putting a lot of eggs in one basket if you're hoping a guy who took 14 threes could turn into a high volume 3pt shooter, which are basically the types of players that need to be around Sabonis.
I have to agree. The reality is that the best fit next to Domas is a guy like Draymond. That guy checks all boxes and is also able to get rebounds and run and bring the ball up himself. Hard to find guys like that for sure but then you pivot to wings who can do similar but lack in certain areas. HB and Keegan do a lot of the good things on offense or better than Green, with room to improve in Keegan but HB and Keegan are not as good defensively as the elite Green.
There’s a give and take I suppose but it appears that Coach Brown and Monte don’t want to sacrifice offense for a better defender as it would start clogging the lanes for Domas and Fox.
It’s why Sasha can be so good here and a desired guy. Kings want offense first, then hope Brown can piece together the D. Can Naz be a guy they want? Maybe. Skill set was intriguing for sure. Grant Williams? Actually not a fan after watching him him in the playoffs….he’s not terrible but I’d rather look elsewhere. Kessler Edwards? Actually think he can work as he’s good defensively and can knock down a 3 at a decent enough rate if given consistent playing time….and cheap
It’s a really key part of Summer for Monte and Brown.
Yep, I think the goalpost is officially moved for everyone in the org. The Kings being the "surprise" organization that takes everyone by storm, ends the playoff drought, etc is all in the past now. The power structure doesn't get the luxury of playing with house money anymore. 2 All-NBA players, 1st team All-rookie.
So the real question is how do they level this team up from a top 12, solid playoff team to one of the 4-6 teams every year with a legit chance of winning a title.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
For me it’s Keegan Murray becoming the player the front office thinks he is, building and maintaining chemistry and filling out the roster with or developing role playing wings that can impact winning. Denver’s path might be a template for what our success could look like. Not identical but similar
Yeah there's honestly a ton of similarities:
Jokic=Sabonis. The only 2 guys in the NBA with this skill-set, but obviously Jokic is on a tier or 2 above Domas currently. I still don't think it's totally fair to judge Domas by this past playoff series with the match-up and his health, but he'll certainly need to prove next season that last year was just a fluke and he can still be an All-NBA guy in the post-season.
Murray=Fox. Different type of scoring guards, but more or less occupy the same role as the lead ISO creator when it calls for it. I think Fox is probably a tier above Murray, although Murray has really shown he takes it up a notch in the playoffs. That's incredibly tough to do for anyone.
MPJ=Keegan. I actually think MPJ is a pretty realistic outcome for what Keegan becomes. Just an absolute elite spacing option that gives you size on the wing and some defensive versatility. I think Keegan is pretty far ahead defensively of where MPJ started out as a rookie. Only now, 5 years into his career, is he really starting to find defensive success.
KCP/Brown/Aaron Gordon/Braun vs Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell/Monk. So here's where we need to clean up a bit and find the defensive counterparts to the main 3. Den was flawless at getting defensive anchors that are all flexible with getting on the court with Murray/Jokic and sometimes MPJ. While some of these do sacrifice spacing, I think they do an excellent job of keeping 2 of Murray/KCP/MPJ on the floor to make sure everything stays clean. The Kings have to be willing to do the same with our own spacers in our to up the defense.
Problem is... Draymond is 33 years old. He's also a career 31% three point shooter so if he's your ideal fit it's not like he sets the bar very high for floor spacing from the PF position.
Everyone acknowledges that we need to get better on defense. We already have Sasha on our radar to hopefully come over and replace HB's three point shooting. Are we expecting to sign a minimum contract guy and play him for 12 minutes a game and somehow he'll transform our defense from awful to average? Is there a career role-player who Mike Brown will magically mold into an All-Defense star? Neither of those ideas is realistic.
I think the offense is fine as it is. Keegan will get more shots next year and if we re-sign Lyles and get Sasha to come over we'll be fine letting HB leave in free agency. The only way up from here is to find 2 plus defenders and give them each 30 minutes per game in the rotation. Here's how I see the rotation going forward:
Fox / Mitchell
Huerter / Monk
Murray / Defensive Wing
Defensive Forward / Vezenkov
Sabonis / Lyles
The best individual defenders who fit our timeline that I can possibly see becoming available either this year or next year are Thybulle as the wing and Okongwu as the forward. Neither are great shooters but Thybulle did shoot 39% in 22 games with Portland last year. He's at 33.4% for his career -- if he ticks that up to 35% he's an ideal 3-and-D candidate. Okongwu has barely started shooting but again, the guy is 22 years old. His mechanics improved throughout the year and if he develops into a top 10 defender, does it matter that he's not a volume shooter? All he needs to do is be able to hit a corner 3. He also has a post game which we were sorely lacking in the playoff series against GS.
But let's look at this from the other angle -- assuming Monte wants Sasha and all indications are that he does -- he's going to be taking a lot of threes whenever he's on the floor and his defense is passable at best. Can we afford not to have a defensive wiz at PF when our bench PF is Vezenkov? Okongwu would be able to slide up to C next to Vezenkov and wouldn't get eaten alive under the basket by opposing centers. Or imagine it's a single possession game and all we need is one stop to win. If Mike Brown could put a lineup of Fox, Mitchell, Thybulle, Okongwu, and Sabonis out there, I like our chances.
The only reason I'm so fixated on Okongwu is that nobody else even remotely in our price range is capable of developing into a top 10 defender. If we take a chance on this guy and he's elite on defense in a starter role our potential ceiling goes up from playoff contender to "best team in the Western Conference". If there's any missing piece which could take us there from where we are now, it has to come on the defensive end.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah for sure a template that now might be a championship level team. Maybe not, we'll see I guess. The Nuggets had to unload some stuff to get Gordon though. Particularly youth/picks. And the only real difference is what we saw in the playoffs, the Kings as of now do not have those 2 guys that can get you 25 a night like Murray and Jokic can. They have Fox and a crop of maybe 15-20 a night guys. Typically you want to be a pretty good defensive team if that's your makeup, but personnel wise the Kings don't have those pieces as of now.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If they let Barnes go, and could find a taker for Holmes I think it's plausible to end up with both Thybulle and Grant Williams. That'd be a great start to helping on the defensive end. Then it comes down to who is going to be that 2nd option offensively.
twslam07
All-Star
I think that’s why a lot of us prefer a guy like Anunoby over Okongwu.
Anunoby is the caliber defender you desire and he’s of the age you desire, but the difference is he’s a much, much better perimeter threat (39% from 3 on 5.5 3PA per36). He’s a player that could really elevate this team as he can keep our offense firing on all cylinders while raising our defensive floor substantially.
To land Anunoby, you’d likely have to at least offer…
Richaun Holmes
Davion Mitchell
#24
2026-28 SAC 1st
That trade would allow us to keep all of our cap holds in place while still giving us our NTMLE. You could technically go over the cap to resign Barnes, Lyles, Davis, etc. and use that NTMLE (or at least part of it) on a solid backup C (like Plumlee). Fill in the rest of the roster with minimum contracts and you have a good looking, see roster going into next year:
PG - Fox / Monk / FA Min
SG - Huerter / Davis / Dozier
SF - Murray / Barnes / Edwards
PF - Anunoby / Lyles / FA Min
C - Sabonis / Plumlee / FA Min
Or you could say goodbye to Barnes & Davis (and not use the NTMLE on Plumlee) and use your cap space on Lyles’ cap hold and signing someone like Naz Reid and then use the room exception on someone like Thybulle/Okogie. Gives you a bench of Monk-Thybulle-Edwards-Lyles-Reid instead of Monk-Davis-Barnes-Lyles-Plumlee.
If I had a say, I'm not giving up Davion Mitchell for anyone though. As our primary guard defender he's as essential to the playoff formula as anyone else in our rotation. Both OG and Onyeka are very effective defenders but with different strengths and they're in very different career situations. OG was #1 in steals this season and made second team all-defense. Combine that with his shooting ability and he's about to be paid like an All Star. And he's not going to be able to slide over and play minutes at C for us except against smallball opponents. Okongwu was #10 in blocked shots in just 23 minutes per game and is currently viewed as a non-shooter. I think he's poised for a breakout season and he has #2 or #3 option potential on offense too as he continues to improve but he's still comparatively under the radar and should be a little cheaper to acquire and keep through his first post-rookie contract.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Against PG oriented teams maybe. The issue remains, what happens when they play a team like Denver, or Phoenix, or the Lakers, etc.? Brown will be picking between Davion and Monk more than likely. Heck he already went that route in game 7 when the team needed the offense. As for Davion, we're not sure how much teams are paying attention and there's still time, but getting out before teams come poaching better be at least considered.
The glaring issue with Davion is how do you get him on the floor? Fox's 34-38 MPG aren't going anywhere. We may have really found something with Monk in the playoffs, who was one of the main reasons we pushed the series to 7 games. Huerter had a horrible playoffs, but he took a serious leap in the regular season and showed tremendous chemistry off of Domas and playing the C&S spacer roll to perfection with Foxy.
And I don't think Davion could have played better defense on Steph, but we still took him off the floor because of his offensive limitations. Now maybe that was a real mistake, but coach tapped T.DAVIS of all people to try and find an offensive spark and put a bit more size on the floor.
I think the Kings do have to start thinking about how to allocate their minutes and resources a little more effectively. Davion as a 10-15 MPG back-up is certainly an amazing luxury to have, but is there some deal out there that can parlay him into a future wing that can start next to Keegan? Or even a wing back-up that could be 20+ MPG.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the answer is. All 3 of Huerter/Davion/Monk staked a real claim to be a running mate next to Fox in the long-term. I think that's something Monte will really have to delve deep into this off-season on which he considers to be a 3+ year core piece next to Fox/Domas/Keegan. My bet would be on Monk, especially taking his tremendous playoff series into consideration. I don't think it's particularly effective to keep playing the hot-hand approach with all 3 and just play the guy who's playing well.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
It HAS to be MM. Has to be. He's this team's Bobby Jackson offensively.
He's proven in both college and now at the NBA level that he's a mamba-mentality, clutch player. Those don't grow on trees. While different type of players, obviously, I think of Robert Horry when I think of MM. Just due to the fearless gene and propensity to step up when the moment is big.
Horry was part of 7 titles. MM is the type that could be too IF he plays with a couple super stars like Horry did. But even on a team that doesn't have 2 of the top 5 players in the league, he proved he could be an important piece. Because the kid can make plays for others when Foxy is out, not just shoot the ball. And he's capable of making impactful defensive plays on the other end, in spurts.
IMO, Sabonis, Fox, Keegan, MM are a nice core of 4 to keep building around.
Also, not sure I'd favor MM starting next to Fox just yet, as I think he's super valuable coming off the bench for a scoring punch AND to run the offense in the minutes Swipa is off the floor. I think he might be best suited in the Bobby Jackson role, that still gets 28-35 minutes off the bench every night.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, this is all basically BoJax all over again. Time will tell. At one point it was starting to become Bobby kicking J-Will off the floor until Bibby came on board. Then before Petrie had to overpay for a bench guy, he turned him into a starter in Bonzi Wells. I have a feeling Monte is going to be just as resolute when it comes to necessity. This team goes where Fox and Domas take it, and someone has to pick up the slack because Domas ain't doing what you see out of the bigs at the end as a scorer or defender. He's somewhere in between. He's probably the Vlade of this squad. Monk as of now could be a major piece to build around, but there are no guarantees with his contract. His play next season will determine that along with the teams success. Some version of the Monk we've seen in the NBA these however many years still isn't probably enough, but maybe it will be. Time will tell.
We have one plus defender and Mike Brown didn't play him in the biggest game of the season... and we lost with Steph Curry torching us for 50 points. This seems like a pretty easy pairing of problem and solution to me. Relying on T. Davis to give us a huge lift two games in a row was fool's gold. The Warriors obliterated him with screens and Steph got every shot he wanted. As for Red Velvet, leaning on Kevin and Keegan as floor spacers for Fox and Domas had been working like gangbusters all year except for the last week of the season and that GS series when Kevin had a very poorly timed shooting slump. Shooters go through stretches where they miss more than they make -- even Steph does. Kevin is still an essential part of the winning formula.
I think this is an easy call: keep all 4 of our guards because each of them fulfills a very important role. Fox is our primary scorer. Monk is our instant offense 6th man. Huerter is our catch and shoot floor spacer and Davion is our designated defender. We're no longer in talent acquisition mode hoping we can find a coach who will mold that talent into a team -- we are a team already and a damn good one. We shouldn't be letting anyone leave unless there's a clear upgrade to be made at the same position. With the exception of a few star bigs and forwards, this is still a guard oriented league and our depth at guard is a big part of why we were so competitive this season. Fox showed big progress as a defender under Mike Brown's leadership but we can't throw him out there and ask him to expend max energy on both ends of the floor all night.
If we do move Davion in a trade for an upgrade somewhere else, now we need to find another plus defender just to maintain our status quo as a very bad defensive team. We're swimming uphill as it is trying to get better on the defensive side of the floor. I don't think we can afford to take even a small step backward in our defensive-minded personnel.
