Correct. He was voted because HOU was the 2 seed and they didn't want to leave a 2 seed player off the roster. Domas was clearly better up to the all star break and still put a better season up, despite him essentially being hurt the rest of the year
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Correct. He was voted because HOU was the 2 seed and they didn't want to leave a 2 seed player off the roster. Domas was clearly better up to the all star break and still put a better season up, despite him essentially being hurt the rest of the year
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I’m not sure it’s fair to call Lavine a losing player. He has played for the Wolves, Bulls and Kings, three of the worst franchises when it comes to winning (outside of the Jordan era and post-Ant) a 23 points a game guy with 50/40/80+ shooting splits with elite athleticism is a very useful player even with the below average defense. Hes only a negative asset if he is on a long term 40 plus a year type of deal. If things work out over the next two years he’s prob going to get like a 3 for 100 type deal with someone. Maybe a bit more given guys like Booker will be getting 70.
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Yeah, I'm pretty convinced his next contract is going to revert downwards - given his production overall the last two years (though injury is involved) maybe even $30M a year is a bit high. But he's got two years to establish what the next free agent version of Zach is, because I can't see him declining the player option he's got next summer. That kind of money won't be available for him if he turns it down.
twslam07
All-Star
Bringing Holiday here doesn’t “kill” our salary cap because we’d either be looking to…
1.) Trade an expiring LaVine for a better star
2.) Allow LaVine to fall off the books and use that cap to sign a significant piece
3.) Extend LaVine for a much lower contract amount.
As for BOS’s preferences, you didn’t mention the cost savings benefit from doing such a trade and that’s a big reason as to why a pick is being attached. And if Monk doesn’t end up being a preference for them, he could be sent to a place like ORL who could send guys like KCP, Carter, Isaac, etc. that give them some more size vs. taking back Monk.
Marshall has a 7’0.75” wingspan and is over 230 lbs. He’s also a good defender who plays with great toughness. He would certainly help when playing against bigger frontcourts (especially since he’s replacing DeRozan in the frontcourt).
The fit of Holiday next to LaVine was the last thing I stated for a reason. It’s definitely an added bonus though.
The point of another team trading for an expiring LaVine next offseason (not this offseason) is not because they intend on using him long term. It’s to give that team immediate cap relief (along with picks/assets) to help them jump start a rebuild.
And we’re not falling into the “trap” of selling our future. The acquisition of Holiday is just the opposite. It comes along with…
1.) Another pick (good for our future)
2.) Help establish the identity & culture of the team (good for our future)
3.) Help mentor Carter & Ellis (good for our future)
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah paying Jrue nearly 40 million at age 37 is not a good idea. In fact, at this point a very, very bad one. Perry better not go all in here, the fork in the road will appear next season, just wait and see because the necessary direction taken once there will likely be quite clear and it's super unlikely that Jrue Holiday is the difference between any team truly mattering in the deep Western conference. At least one that pretty much wasn't already in the mix. Nobody even knows what the Kings are at this point and the only evidence is Bulls Jr. doesn't look right at all, haha.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It doesn't kill it but if the Kings end up flatlining it certainly makes a quick and efficient rebuild even tougher. The Celtics are already making noise they'll mostly want to just cut cap and TBH they might have to attach assets to Holiday if that's their desire.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He's the type of highest paid player for a team that can hover somewhere around .500, or an 8-10 seed
What we're talking about is trade value. What kind of a return can you get for Zach LaVine on an expiring contract at mid-season next year? And in that circumstance, he is a losing player unless/until he proves otherwise. It will be a factor in how much (if anything) a hypothetical team with a star player that fits our roster is going to ask for as a sweetener in order to add LaVine to their roster 3 months before he likely becomes a free agent anyway. Realistically, I personally think this is aiming for the moon. And assuming you'll be able to get a deal like this done is poor planning.
I would start planning my roster moves around the idea that LaVine will not be here after next season and hopefully I've already made my feelings about LaVine clear enough that I don't need to go into the reasons why. Again, just my preference.
@SacTownKid made the exact point I was going to respond with. If this all doesn't work and we're still a 40 win team next year with Sabonis already on record as "considering his options" before outright demanding a trade and giving us a very short list of teams he's willing to re-sign with, now you're another 80 million in the hole on an aging player who has to be considered an injury risk purely because of the years and mileage on his knees/ankles/tendons.
And you're still assuming that Boston is giving us a pick and Jrue for Monk. If I'm Boston and I'm giving up one of the best defenders in the league over the past decade and a pick because of his huge contract, I'm asking for a lot more than Monk and I think at least one of the other 28 teams will give it to me. Jrue is a guy that contending teams will be interested in. The Lakers, the TWolves, the Clippers, the Rockets, the Warriors all appear to have a need for a backcourt player who ups their defensive floor. I make a deal for Jrue if we also move Sabonis and LaVine at the same time and start the Doug Christie era with a clean slate and a new defensive focus or I make it if he's the guy who makes me a contender for the next 3 years while he's still under contract. I don't make it to build a team around Holiday/LaVine/Sabonis and a supporting crew of young guys who will be forced to stand behind the 3pt line and wait for passes all game.
Marshall has length but that doesn't help with the league's 6'8" and bigger all-muscle freight trains of despair taking bodies and stealing souls in the paint. That's where our problem lies. There aren't as many players who fit that description in the current NBA as there were in decades past but all it takes is a couple of drafts to alter the math on that.
twslam07
All-Star
Precisely my point as to why he’s a good target for us!
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iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
The Bulls were on their way to being a good playoff tram and a top 10 defense before Ball went down with an injury.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Precisely my point as to why he’s a good target for us!
The Kings have enough middling draft assets to move forward with haha. On paper he'd be a solid add, but that contract is not worth it. If the evidence right now didn't have the Kings being so in the middle and closer to out maybe they take the chance but this would be another example of gambling with no real reason to other than he fits. At this point I think even giving out a MLE sized deal this summer would be a huge mistake potentially. If they want to run it back? Run it back. Don't run it back with more anchors attached. This is the exact opposite of when Monte ran it back. Clearly that team had holes and we see how running it back hurt. Now, they have no evidence from which to work from to do anything other than run it back. They just changed out half the dang roster for fit, no more contractual landmines. Hold the position and if this team is a Jrue Holiday away they'll know it shortly after the season has started.
twslam07
All-Star
Did I give any indication that LaVine has significant trade value on an expiring contract? I did not. The value would be the picks/assets and the fact that a team could shed $50 mil in cap the very next season (since LaVine would be an expiring). Most teams that are trading their star player are looking to rebuild. What better way to rebuild than cut cap and accumulate assets/picks.
And where is this “poor planning” comment coming from? You act as if me entire plan would be predicated on us trading for a hypothetical star that will be available next offseason. That’s not the case. The name of the game is to stay flexible and the trades I proposed…
1.) Keep our options open
2.) Improve our future
3.) Improve our team next year
…if that’s “poor planning” to you then I’d like to see what “good planning” looks like?
If all of this doesn’t work out and we’re still a 40 win team and Sabonis asks out, why is it a big concern that we have Holiday on our roster? Do you honestly think we’re trying to trade Sabonis for an equivalent star talent and push to be a playoff team? It’s more likely that we’d be shifting into a rebuild at that point which means who we’re paying with our cap is not as important as a contender who’s trying to optimize every dollar to put them over the edge. Can you be specific in how you think this hamstrings us in this scenario?
And it’s interesting how you now align yourself to this point from sactownkid when in the same post you say how we shouldn’t be planning our roster moves around LaVine. Well, if you don’t plan roster moves around LaVine for this upcoming season, you’re intentionally not trying to optimize the roster which could well lead to the very scenario you just referenced (40 win season). So with that in mind, are you saying that you’d prefer to build a temporarily ill fitting roster for next year (because LaVine is not a long term piece) which would then increases the chances of Sabonis asking out? Is your vision to move off both LaVine and Sabonis (that’s fine if it is)?
I assume that BOS would give us a pick because of conversations I’ve had about this very trade framework with BOS fans so yeah I don’t think it’s as unfathomable as you make it out to be.
I think you’re misunderstanding me yet again on building a team around Holiday, LaVine, and Sabonis. I’m not building a team around them. I’ve been very clear on my reasons for bringing Holiday aboard (we get a pick, he helps us establish the culture we want, he’s a great mentor for Ellis/Carter) and I’ve been very clear on my stance on LaVine (use him as a big expiring in a trade the following offseason for an upgrade, extend him for a much cheaper contract, let him expire and use the cap on another significant piece).
Marshall’s length and 230+ lb frame doesn’t help going against bigger/longer players? I’m not sure how you’ve arrive at that conclusion. I’d much rather have Marshall bodying those guys than DeRozan. We can at least find some middle ground on that point. Fair?
twslam07
All-Star
The team is not a Jrue Holiday away from being a contender. Nobody is saying that. And no, I’m not going to turn away a 1st round draft pick in a draft where we have no 1st round draft picks.
And just so we’re all clear here, I think a good majority of us agree that we should be rebuilding at this point. I could easily make every single one of my posts with that preferred vision in mind but it would be equivalent to me banging my head against a wall. The ideas and trades I come up with are now under the prerequisite that Vivek wants us to make the playoffs. With that in mind, I don’t think “running it back” is a realistic option for this organization (even if it might be the right thing to do).
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Depends on what running it back means. This team made more changes last season than anyone. This is pretty much exactly the type of team you run back for the most part just purely due to a lack of intel if the idea is to stay competitive. I get it, but for 30+ million a year you do turn that pick away. Jrue on paper is a great fit, no doubt about it but if the Kings want a pick this year anything close to that deep those might be more than available. Teams are starting to turn down rookie options to save $$$. We'll have to see but late 1st's on capped out teams might be given away. Especially in this draft. I understand the goal, but if Vivek or anyone here is computing those two things as the obvious path to anywhere and not weighing the worst case scenario then this could get really ugly, haha. That's the story of the Kings though. Wheel and deal when they should be cautious and then be cautious and too confident when they need to be wheeling and dealing. If Perry has any sense, now is not the time to wheel and deal unless someone like Giannis can be had while keeping a few pieces to go with him. Even with DeMar it might come down to a simple addition by subtraction/favor in a worst case kind of move. Trade wise if the Kings overpay for players of a certain level, I'd throw Ja, Trae, Porzingis, etc. types in there, I'd bet if it comes down to then rebuilding anyway the Kings will be getting 50 cents on the dollar in terms of what they gave up in the first place. That's exactly how you end up being a team missing the playoffs for darn near two decades.
twslam07
All-Star
Again, it’s not just a pick. There are other benefits to the trade that I’ve laid out that make sense for the long term outlook of the team.
Jdbraver137
Bench
Funny how when he went out we also went on a losing streak. But I agree he isn’t the top player on a playoff team. He is the workhorse. It’s sad they don’t put talent around him.
Yes my intention is to move pretty much all of the vets including Sabonis as I wrote about earlier in this thread. The only reason I didn't make a Zach LaVine trade proposal is because I think he has negative trade value and we just need to stick him on the bench for a year and then let him opt out.
I don't think we have the cap space or the trade assets to salvage a Sabonis led roster. His age, contact, and defensive limitations have all become impediments to team building. The longer we tread water the more likely it is that we have to trade him away for 10 cents on the dollar. We have a new coach and a new GM, now is the time to make a move. Before Vivek gets bored with his new toys and goes shopping for a GM and Coach again. You might scoff at invoking the owner clause as a reason to start the roster rebuilding ASAP but the longest Vivek has stuck with the same coach and GM pairing so far has been 3 years. I don't want to waste all of the Perry/Christie era trying to fix a roster that has already proven to be a .500 level team at best for the last two months. The only real fix for this mess is to focus on building around Carter, Ellis, and Murray.
And I really don't see your point with Marshall. 6'7" and 230 lbs with a 7 foot wingspan is good size for a SF. It's poor size at PF and C -- and downright terrible if you're also undersized at C. If you've got me in the category of fan who wants to see 4 shooters hanging out behind the 3pt line on every possession than you're talking to the wrong fan. I want to win with physicality and intimidation. I want a true 7 footer and a Sabonis sized guy next to him as the focal point of the team.
twslam07
All-Star
There seems to be a fundamental difference in how we are approaching the team build...you are approaching it from the standpoint of "this is how I would build the team" and I'm approaching it from the standpoint of "this is how I would build the team within Vivek's direction."
I don't disagree with the idea of selling off our vets and rebuilding at this point. That's the direction I'd take if I had the freedom to make that choice, but as we know (and as the OP clearly states), Vivek is not going to allow a rebuild or for us to take significant steps back. We can continue to make post after post saying "we should rebuild and sell off all of our vets," but that just doesn't seem to be a realistic path for this team (unfortunately). The only way I realistically see Vivek willing to start another rebuild is if Sabonis vocalizes that he wants out and asks to be traded. At that point, you're left with Monk, LaVine, Ellis, Carter, DeRozan, Murray, Valanciunas and whatever assets/picks you got from trading Sabonis and as we know, there is no star player that would be remotely interested in signing with SAC with that being the roster around him.
And I agree. If Sabonis asks out (which I think could trigger a rebuild finally from Vivek) then we are likely getting 10 cents on the dollar for him. It's unfortunate because it doesn't take someone with a lot of basketball knowledge to see that situation coming our way and to get ahead of it by trading Sabonis now while you can recoup good value for him.
Again, the moves I suggested are within the confounds of Vivek's direction (e.g., he wants to win now). A starting lineup of Holiday, LaVine, Murray, Marshall, & Sabonis is much more complementary and better than a starting lineup of Monk, LaVine, DeRozan, Murray, & Sabonis. That synergy alone should help improve this team next year (on top of any more growth from our young guys, LaVine & Sabonis finding chemistry, etc.). The benches would basically be the same if we can resign LaRavia and/or Lyles (Caleb Martin would be the new addition to the bench).
However, the moves I suggested (although I think they make us better next year) are a bit of hedge for our future as we'd not only be retaining all of our future 1sts but also adding another 1st. That opens up options depending on how things play out...
Scenario #1:
If we underperform next year and Sabonis asks out, we still have all of our future 1st round picks as we lean into a rebuild (assuming Vivek finally gives in at this point). Holiday can hang around for a bit as well as he would be an excellent mentor for the young guys and help set the culture.
Scenario #2
If we do well next year, I'm assuming Sabonis will remain happy and be okay hanging around. At that point, we can look to trade LaVine's expiring contract during the 2026 offseason (or the 2026-27 trade deadline) along with a combination of the various assets we have (Carter, 2025 BOS 1st, 2026 SAC 1st, 2027 SAC 1st, 2027 SAS 1st, 2028 SAC 1st, 2029 SAC 1st, 2030 SAC 1st, 2031 SAC 1st, 2031 MIN 1st, & 2032 SAC 1st) for a "real" star player that may become available that's also a good fit for our roster. If we can get that "real" star next to Sabonis surrounded by guys like Holiday, Carter, Ellis, Murray, and/or Marshall, that's not a bad place to be.
Scenario #3
If we do well next year, I'm assuming Sabonis will remain happy and be okay hanging around. If there isn't a trade to be made for a star player, we can talk with LaVine about an extension at a much lower price tag. I'm thinking around $20 mil/year. Something similar/in the range of Monk got. I think LaVine is better than Monk, but considering he'll be 32 years old at the start of his next contract and the fact that he doesn't have the best injury history, I think that's a reasonable offer. That would more or less mean we'd be running it back for the 2026-27 season (Holiday, LaVine, Carter, Ellis, Murray, Marshall, Martin, Sabonis, Valanciunas). We'd then be setup to have around $15-$20 mil in cap space during the 2027 offseason (I've estimated Murray's future contract to be on par with Trey Murphy's and Keon Ellis' future contract to be on par with Herb Jones' contract) with the following players under contract for the 2027-28 season...
PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - LaVine / Ellis
SF - Murray / Martin
PF -
C - Sabonis
Picks - 2025 BOS 1st, 2026 SAC 1st, 2027 SAC 1st, & 2027 SAS 1st
We'd have the ability to sign a solid rotational player (or resign Marshall), but more importantly, both Holiday and Martin will be expiring contracts during the 2027 offseason. Their collective salaries total to $46.6 mil. Similar to Scenario #2, we can use these expirings along with any assets/picks we have to see if there is a "real" star that we can trade for that would also be a good fit for our roster.
Scenario #4
If we do well next year, I'm assuming Sabonis will remain happy and be okay hanging around. If there isn't a trade to be made for a star player and LaVine isn't willing to take the extension I offered, we'd let him walk in FA during the 2027 offseason. That would result in our cap space going up to around $35-40 mil during the 2027 offseason (I've estimated Murray's future contract to be on par with Trey Murphy's and Keon Ellis' future contract to be on par with Herb Jones' contract) with the following players under contract for the 2027-28 season...
PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - Ellis
SF - Murray / Martin
PF -
C - Sabonis
Picks - 2025 BOS 1st, 2026 SAC 1st, 2027 SAC 1st, & 2027 SAS 1st
That's a lot more cap space to work with to see if we can bring in a significant piece/upgrade for our team. And similar to scenario #3, we can use Holiday and Martin's expirings to explore the trade market for a "real" star.
As you can see, these moves give us a lot of options and allow us to be flexible in that we have some upcoming expiring contracts each offseason (LaVine in the 2026 offseason and Holday/Martin in the 2027 offseason) that give us a couple swings at finding that star/upgrade that we definitely need while in the meantime adding assets to our warchest (2025 1st) and improve our roster for the upcoming seasons.
Physicality and intimidation are both traits Marshall has. Go watch him play. He plays with a lot of toughness and physicality and takes pride in his defensive effort. He's strong for his size and has almost a 7'1" wingspan (not 7'0"). Now is he the perfect PF size? No, but he is a significant upgrade from DeRozan in that department. He has more length, strength, athleticism, toughness, and defensive intensity & versatility than DeRozan. I think you're underrating the difference between these two players and how it would play out on the floor for us. Besides...Marshall's making $9 mil a year. He doesn't need to be the long term solution at PF. If we find that perfect, bigger PF you desire, his contract makes it easy to slide him to the bench (and now you all of a sudden have an excellent bench piece to go to).
You're not going to solve all of this team's issues in one move. The important thing is to continue to take steps along the way that help address your weaknesses while accentuating your strengths. I think a DeRozan for Marshall/Martin could be one of those steps.
I understand the prompt but even in your first sentence you imply that Vivek is making the personnel decisions, not the GM he just hired to head the front office. Yes ultimately the buck stops with the guy in charge but how much do we really know about Vivek's preferences other than he likes shooters (Buddy Hield, Zach LaVine) and he wants the team to win? I think he'll jump on board with any group of players that can put Sacramento on the basketball map as a team worth watching. So my goal in this is to find the right mix of players who can accomplish that, even if it means taking some big swings and saying goodbye to some fan favorites. And if Scott Perry isn't prepared to do that than he shouldn't have taken the job. Because he will be fired if this team doesn't transform into a winner under his watch. That much we know for sure.
And I keep saying this over and over again and yet somehow it's not being understood -- I do not want this team to tank. I think trading Sabonis, DDR, Monk, and LaVine right now will make this a better basketball team not a worse one. The devil is in the details though in who the right players are to target in order to accomplish that. I don't disagree with your approach, I'm sure you're doing the same thing based on your player evaluations. I'm just commenting from my point of view that I don't personally think the strategy you've laid out here is going to work. We're still going to get dominated in the paint by bigger teams and we're heavily reliant on LaVine being a reliable first option scorer or some hypothetical superstar flying in from Deus Ex Machina land to save us.
We have all of our first round picks now. I think the likelihood of success with your roster is far lower than the likelihood of failure (obviously you disagree, hence the back and forth) so in Scenario #1 we lose the advantage of trading Sabonis on our terms which is not insignificant considering he's maybe the best trade asset we currently have.
This approach works for markets which attract established star players. Boston and LA get to do this. Miami, because of Spoelstra and Riley, get to do this. The Knicks get to do this. Attempting to do this in Sacramento has never worked out. No disgruntled superstar is going to put the Kings on their short list of acceptable trade destinations which means we're throwing away all of our assets for a short-term rental.
So we're right back at Scenario 2 again, just a year further along the timeline (and a year closer to Perry and Christie getting fired). And we're still hoping for some hypothetical franchise altering star player to become available and consent to being traded to the Kings. Yes I know it eventually worked out with Chris Webber but that was 1 time in 40 years. Not great odds.
Okay, sure but what have you really done here other than say we'll take Holiday from Boston plus a pick in exchange for Monk and then we'll somehow find a player who will make this into a good team. Who is that player? How do they fit with Holiday and Sabonis? What is the plan for Murray, Ellis, and Carter? You've barely mentioned them at all. Aren't they the players who still have some projected improvement left in their careers that should ideally be accounted for? When I read this I see another ESPN style take which basically assumes all players are static and teams only get better by adding known quantities to existing known quantities.
If you've read one of my trade proposals, every one of them is about finding talent which has not peaked yet and correctly identifying which of those players might grow into star players on our team and thus hopefully feel enough loyalty to the cause to continue their careers here once they have the name recognition. Obviously there's going to be disagreement whether my player picks are any good or not but ultimately we don't know because whatever they will be at their peak, they're not there yet.
More toughness and physicality at the PF position than DeRozan is a pretty low bar to reach. Are we trying to win 45 games next season or 55? Because the Monte McNair / Mike Brown pairing won 48 and 46 games in consecutive seasons and that was not good enough to save their jobs. Based on your own premise (what does Vivek want) I think your plan doesn't allow our new GM and coach to keep their jobs either.
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"Him"mer Fredette
Prospect
I love the details and depth you guys go, it really shows how intelligent the Kings fan base is. For me I don't want throw a ton of what ifs because I always get let down... 2 things they need and can 100% do is trade Derozan and move Monk back to the bench. Of the 3 ball dominant scorers we have, 1 has to go, 1 has to start, 1 should be the spark plug off the bench. If egos get involved ship them...
sactowndog
All-Star
I think you are purposefully ignoring the point the Domas’s game has been easy to scheme against and shut down in the play-offs. Offensively he is an undersized center who uses guile to score. That guile NBA coaches can scheme against. Defensively he is a liability.
As long as Domas is your primary option you are going to have issues.
sactowndog
All-Star
Trae and Sabonis are similar. Both are undersized and rely on guile. The NBA impacted Trae’s game by limiting his ability to draw fouls.The criticism of Sabonis is that he isn't helpful at the highest level of competition. So instead of ignoring that criticism, let's probe playoff stats over the same period
Playoff advanced stats 2022-2025
Markdown (GitHub flavored):| Player | PER | WS | TS% | WS/48 | BPM | VORP | TRB% | AST% | |:------------------|------:|-----:|------:|--------:|------:|-------:|-------:|-------:| | Domantas Sabonis | 15.9 | 0.3 | 0.517 | 0.064 | 0.7 | 0.2 | 16.2 | 20.8 | | Anthony Davis | 24.7 | 3.6 | 0.616 | 0.212 | 6.1 | 1.7 | 19.9 | 12.1 | | Paolo Banchero | 19.4 | 0.8 | 0.537 | 0.079 | 5 | 0.8 | 12.6 | 22.6 | | Tyrese Haliburton | 22 | 2.9 | 0.609 | 0.182 | 6 | 1.5 | 8.7 | 36 | | Donovan Mitchell | 21.2 | 2.5 | 0.555 | 0.118 | 5.6 | 2 | 7.3 | 27.8 | | Trae Young | 14 | -0.2 | 0.501 | -0.026 | -1.6 | 0 | 6.5 | 34.4 |
View attachment 13511
Pretty clear separation there, but let's consider the difference between playoff performance and regular season performance to really highlight the issue.
Playoff - regular season advanced stats 2022-2025
View attachment 13512Markdown (GitHub flavored):| Player | PER | WS | TS% | WS/48 | BPM | VORP | TRB% | AST% | |:------------------|------:|------:|-------:|--------:|------:|-------:|-------:|-------:| | Domantas Sabonis | -7 | -42 | -0.132 | -0.135 | -4.8 | -19.1 | -4.8 | -8.1 | | Anthony Davis | -1.3 | -28.4 | 0.009 | 0.013 | 0.9 | -12.4 | 1.1 | -3.2 | | Paolo Banchero | 2.3 | -10.3 | -0.005 | 0 | 4.2 | -4.1 | 0.8 | 0 | | Tyrese Haliburton | 0.5 | -31.2 | -0.001 | 0.005 | 0.6 | -15.9 | 2.4 | -4.7 | | Donovan Mitchell | -0.7 | -27.6 | -0.034 | -0.045 | 0.6 | -13.7 | -0.1 | 2.6 | | Trae Young | -7.5 | -27.2 | -0.081 | -0.157 | -4.5 | -12.2 | 1.6 | -10.8 |
You could make a case that Trae is worse, but clearly there are different levels here. This is the quantified version of the argument. Taking 13 points off his TS% is
I think sactowndog nailed the Domas issue for the playoffs. Easy to scheme for an opposing team.
Pair that with his defensive issues and I think this team will be competing for the play in on a regular basis. Can’t wait to see what Perry does with either supplementing roster with guys Domas needs next to him or to deal him in a reset
Pair that with his defensive issues and I think this team will be competing for the play in on a regular basis. Can’t wait to see what Perry does with either supplementing roster with guys Domas needs next to him or to deal him in a reset
I assure you that I am not purposefully ignoring it. My position, which I have stated, is that we are looking at a very small sample size (7 playoff games since he has been "Domas") and we should not believe that those 7 games have remotely the same predictive power as the 246 regular season games he has played as a King.
I recognize that he is not a good defensive player (but a GREAT rebounder, which is usually considered a component of defense statistically), but he remains wildly successful in advanced stats that include both offense and defense. He has a huge +++ impact on winning, even if he is a weak paint defender.
And, to address the remaining point, I believe that "easy to scheme against" is just a narrative to explain the difference between his large sample size stats and his small sample size stats. The idea that NBA coaches don't actually do any coaching until the playoffs start is not credible to me. And, of course, if he were statistically better in the playoffs than the regular season, the other side of the argument would call him "uniquely built for playoff basketball". I would endorse neither of those views.
Jdbraver137
Bench
Kuminga?
sactowndog
All-Star
I think the level of coaching you can do in a regular season game with a couple hour walk through versus a play-off game is very different.
The whole league knows who Domas is and his strengths and weaknesses. And yet in the one playoff series against GSW, he was the guy they game planned against and were keyed in on. You look at the stats and Fox and Monks numbers were amazing and Domas numbers were sub par, but he was the guy they were game planning for. You remove Domas for a traditional rim protector the defensive focus shifts to Fox and Monk and they are likely not getting the same quality looks or putting up the numbers they put up.
This. The guy had a broken hand, likely an injured sternum, and he was still the key guy the opponents focused on throughout the series. He made the team GO. Despite all that, they still took the series to 7 games against a tough opponent.
And I still don't understand why they moved away from the offense that worked so well that year. Tweak it a little, sure. Throw in some wrinkles to change it up and keep defenses honest. But the screen actions, etc., got players open all year and it still worked.
Actually, I’m going to say the Warriors keyed on sagging the defense to the paint and not necessarily on Domas first. And why wouldn’t a team do that with Domas stuck in the paint to be effective at the time, Fox who was a paint monster and the Kings up and down 3 point shooting.
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