What Does This Team Need Most?

[Joshyjosh31]

So we’re out on Zion and Trae Young is there any star you guys would want lol

Yes Playoff proven. He averages 26/9 in the Playoffs and has had some clutch monents, he doesn’t fade in the Playoffs like how some modern stars (Sabonis being an example, until he proves otherwise).

Also, how many times over the years have we argued guys like Cousins and Fox should not have poor team-building held against them? Trae carries his team to the Playoffs regularly. Even if it’s a weaker conference, that’s not an easy feat. Context matters, he hasn’t had any serious help to make the Hawks a legitimate contender. And the one year they had a deep squad to compensate for lack of starpower they made a nice run. .

To be fair to Sabonis he’s not a star

 

[twslam07]

So we’re out on Zion and Trae Young is there any star you guys would want lol

Do we have to trade for a “star” this offseason?

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Do we have to trade for a “star” this offseason?

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Sure, and I responded how I think a combo of Young and Sabonis would be atrocious on defense. You have arguably the worst defender in the NBA at PG while your C (usually your most important defensive position) is limited defensively.

Young has had a C rotation of Capela and Okongwu for the past 5 seasons. That’s very good defense from the C spot. The previous 2 seasons when they had a much worse defensive C rotation? The Hawks had the 3rd worst defense in the league. Now that’s not all Young and the C rotation. There are other variables at play here but we need to at least be okay on defense if we want to be a full on playoff team and I have a really hard time seeing how that’s possible with that duo on the floor.

Now setting that aside for a second, the post I replied to that you referenced steered the convo to Young being a good playoff performer. Looking at what I posted above, I obviously disagree with that statement.

Sure, my point is only that playoff performance is not necessarily a relevant criteria, when the goal is simply to make it to the playoffs.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Do we have to trade for a “star” this offseason?

No we can run it back and gun for the 11th seed missing the playoffs and a good pick

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

No we can run it back and gun for the 11th seed missing the playoffs and a good pick

We were the 9th seed this season...We're not gunning for 11th next season. We're gunning for 8th or higher.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

We were the 9th seed this season...We're not gunning for 11th next season. We're gunning for 8th or higher.

Ya and Dallas won’t have 80% of the team out and Spurs will get a healthy Wemby/KD. There’s ten teams clearly better than us with Portland having good assets for a trade

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Ya and Dallas won’t have 80% of the team out and Spurs will get a healthy Wemby/KD. There’s ten teams clearly better than us with Portland having good assets for a trade

Do you know someone who works for the NBA that's telling you crazy stuff like KD will definitely be joining the Spurs??? And that Portland will definitely land a superstar using all of their assets??? And that Dallas will actually be a better team heading into next season without Luka???

 

[Tetsujin]

Ya and Dallas won’t have 80% of the team out and Spurs will get a healthy Wemby/KD. There’s ten teams clearly better than us with Portland having good assets for a trade

Kyrie is potentially missing the entire season with his torn ACL and they’re less than a million dollars under the first apron.

Blazers also don’t actually have many draft assets that teams would want aside from the Bucks pick swaps but those aren’t for another three and five seasons and thanks to them already moving their 2026 first round pick for Deni, the Blazers can’t actually move a first round pick in a deal until 2028.

 

[TheMobb]

Ya and Dallas won’t have 80% of the team out and Spurs will get a healthy Wemby/KD. There’s ten teams clearly better than us with Portland having good assets for a trade

Sports are unpredictable and things can change quickly. We don’t know what a quality PG and PF can do for this roster, plus other moves around the edges, internal growth from Keegan, Keon, Carter and others will look like, even guys like Monk and Sabonis have room for growth. Obviously Domas should keep working on his outside shot, but maybe work on being more dynamic offensively and focus on ballhandling and adding a push shot like Zubac did.

 

[TheMobb]

Also it should be noted that with the new CBA teams will be handicapped and more motivated to shed salary. We don’t know what other teams will look like by the time the season starts, so concluding there are X number of teams better than the Kings or any other team is premature.

 

[Caccia]

Zion Williamson is definitely a gamble. But let me point out that he will turn 25 in July. He is just about to enter his prime years. In his best two seasons, out of five, he played 61 and 70 games, respectively. With a proper physical regimen, and maybe Ozempic, he could stay on the court for at least 60 games for the Kings. According to a January report, "he is in the best shape of his career." In other words, he worked hard in the off-season to get in shape and keep his weight down, which before had been a major question.

His season was ended by a hard fall in March. That could happen to anyone. So let me say I am receptive to the idea. Perhaps Scott Perry is, too.

https://www.si.com/nba/pelicans/new...date-on-zion-williamson-s-health-01jjdg19850x

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Dear Mr. Perry,

Please don't cave in to some Kings fans' desire for you to sign Zion Williamson and bring him to Sacramento. Trust me when I say this - you WILL regret it if you do You can do much better than Zion.

Best Wishes,
QWERTYLICIOUS

 

[twslam07]

No we can run it back and gun for the 11th seed missing the playoffs and a good pick

Are we allowed to both 1.) not trade for a “star” this offseason and 2.) not run it back? Or are you saying those are the only 2 options?

 

[The_Jamal]

To fully invest in Keon Ellis and Keegan Murray.

Keon starting in the back-court with LaVine. Trusting Keegan to take the next step into a 17+ PPG scorer and the third option on offense.

Establish a defensive culture around LaVine/Domas. Are they good enough of a duo to really compete? Likely not, but we know Vivek isn't stripping this team down. So the best chance for them to succeed is as many kinds of players like a Devin Carter/Keon Ellis/Keegan Murray as we can get our hands on.

Would love to retain LaRavia. Especially if we could sell him on a bigger role next season, etc, I think he's a long-term great fit with what we need to be successful.

 

[iowamcnabb]

To fully invest in Keon Ellis and Keegan Murray.

Keon starting in the back-court with LaVine. Trusting Keegan to take the next step into a 17+ PPG scorer and the third option on offense.

Establish a defensive culture around LaVine/Domas. Are they good enough of a duo to really compete? Likely not, but we know Vivek isn't stripping this team down. So the best chance for them to succeed is as many kinds of players like a Devin Carter/Keon Ellis/Keegan Murray as we can get our hands on.

Would love to retain LaRavia. Especially if we could sell him on a bigger role next season, etc, I think he's a long-term great fit with what we need to be successful.

Plus if you build a team that is a star away from competing you might be able to throw a bunch of picks at a team if you build it out like you said

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Let’s be honest. The real answer here is a sudden change in ownership.

In this owner's mind, Zach Lavine is a superstar. The ever present problem

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Why do you think there there is “no shot” to make the playoffs if LaVine is on the roster? LaVine has technically made the playoffs before as a 6th seed (with DeRozan also on that team). I’m struggling to see how you have arrived at that conclusion.

I don’t think a team with Sabonis and LaVine as its’ best players has a shot at the Playoffs in the West, maybe they could in the East. LaVine is the biggest example of a good stats bad team guy that I can remember. Plays well against bad teams and is often invisible against the great teams. Sabonis is a star level guy but you need someone slightly better than him to get to the Playoffs.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

I think you’re overrating his playoff pedigree.

Young was in the playoffs for the 2020-21, 2021-22, and 2022-23 seasons. Let’s compare his playoff per 36 min stats to his regular season stats for that year…

Regular Season
.589 TS%
27.9 PTS
10.2 AST
4.3 TO

Playoffs
.533 TS%
25.2 PTS
8.6 AST
4.2 TO

So his efficiency and assists decrease significantly in the playoffs, but the more interesting thing is his On/Off stats in the playoffs compared to the regular season for those 3 seasons…

Regular Season
Off On/Off = +7.7
Def On/Off = +4.1
Tot On/Off = +3.7

Playoffs
Off On/Off = -0.1
Def On/Off = +2.7
Tot On/Off = -2.8

So during the regular season, his team is actually better with him on the floor (although they are much worse defensively but at least his offense makes up for it). However, his team has actually been better with him off the floor in the playoffs.

Again, I don’t think he’s the playoffs performer you think he is. What I remember is a guy who is easily exploitable in the playoffs and the numbers appear to back that up.

That’s fair, maybe that’s true but I would also argue he is the focal point of every defense in the Playoffs to a very high degree. If he had a guy like Sabonis or another star alongside him, I think that would help take the pressure off him a bit in those series where teams get to really key in on him.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Assuming guys like LaVine and Sabonis aren’t moved (and I think it’s pretty unlikely they are moved this offseason), I think the most important thing we could do is to trade DeRozan (breakup the LaVine/DeRozan tandem) for a bigger, longer, more athletic forward who can play defense. Second priority, would be to find a PG.

The reason the PG is secondary for me is that we do still have guys like Monk, LaVine, Sabonis, and Carter who can run the PnR and find others. I wouldn’t say it’s a strength or anything but I wouldn’t say it’s horrid. What is challenging is to trot out an undersized frontcourt of DeRozan, Murray, and Sabonis and hope that you can contain/slow down other teams on a routine basis.

Now the DeRozan trade that I’m finding to be both realistic and helpful for us is the following…

DAL GETS: DeMar DeRozan
Why for DAL? The Mavs can still start Irving, Thompson/Christie, Washington, Davis, and Lively which prioritizes their defense and length identity, but they have the added luxury of having a great shot maker off the bench to help Irving and Davis (especially as Irving rehabs to start next year).

SAC GETS: Caleb Martin, Naji Marshall, & Dwight Powell
Why for SAC? Breakup the LaVine/DeRozan tandem and bring in a big, long, athletic forward who can play defense and hit the 3 (Marshall). Martin is also a solid rotational wing and gives us some insurance in case we can’t resign LaRavia.

My secondary “0.5” move would be to see if we could flip Malik Monk for Jrue Holiday (Boston desperately needs the cap savings). Or if BOS is not interested in Monk, perhaps he can be rerouted to ORL and either KCP or Jonathan Isaac can be sent to BOS instead. That would leave us with the following roster…

PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - LaVine / Ellis / Davis
SF - Murray / Martin
PF - Marshall / Jones
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Powell

If we can’t pull off the Holiday trade, I’d look to sign Ben Simmons to a cheap deal to see if his fit strikes gold with our core. Theoretically, it could workout really well but a lot of things are theoretical with him. Regardless, it would be a very good low risk move which would leave us with…

PG - Ellis / Monk
SG - LaVine / Carter / Davis
SF - Murray / Martin
PF - Simmons / Marshall / Jones
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Powell

Both of these directions balance our roster and give us an opportunity to compete next year while at the same time do not send out any young assets/picks.

Next offseason, LaVine will only have 1 year left on his deal (making him much easier to move) and with all of our picks that we have and LaVine’s big salary, we could be in a good spot to make a big trade to upgrade the roster further and elevate our ceiling. And in general, we’ll have another year under our belt for assessing what we have in guys like Murray, Ellis, and Carter.

If we do keep Zach/Domas, I would love a trade like this. Gotta build a deep, deep squad with size/length around those two.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Are we allowed to both 1.) not trade for a “star” this offseason and 2.) not run it back? Or are you saying those are the only 2 options?

I’d rather not be a treadmill team picking 11th every year

Sports are unpredictable and things can change quickly. We don’t know what a quality PG and PF can do for this roster, plus other moves around the edges, internal growth from Keegan, Keon, Carter and others will look like, even guys like Monk and Sabonis have room for growth. Obviously Domas should keep working on his outside shot, but maybe work on being more dynamic offensively and focus on ballhandling and adding a push shot like Zubac did.

Sabonis is what he is y’all can get your hopes up for him and Keegan just like we talked ourselves into Derozan while the rest of the league laughed

 

[twslam07]

I don’t think a team with Sabonis and LaVine as its’ best players has a shot at the Playoffs in the West, maybe they could in the East. LaVine is the biggest example of a good stats bad team guy that I can remember. Plays well against bad teams and is often invisible against the great teams. Sabonis is a star level guy but you need someone slightly better than him to get to the Playoffs.

By no means can you be a contender with those 2 guys as your best players, but depending on the rest of the team around them, they could be a playoff team.

 

[twslam07]

I’d rather not be a treadmill team picking 11th every year

So are you saying the only way to not pick 11th next year is if we trade for a “star” this offseason? There isn’t any other way to avoid that?

 

[dude12]

What PGs might be out there? Besides Ja and Trae.

 

[The_Jamal]

Assuming guys like LaVine and Sabonis aren’t moved (and I think it’s pretty unlikely they are moved this offseason), I think the most important thing we could do is to trade DeRozan (breakup the LaVine/DeRozan tandem) for a bigger, longer, more athletic forward who can play defense. Second priority, would be to find a PG.

The reason the PG is secondary for me is that we do still have guys like Monk, LaVine, Sabonis, and Carter who can run the PnR and find others. I wouldn’t say it’s a strength or anything but I wouldn’t say it’s horrid. What is challenging is to trot out an undersized frontcourt of DeRozan, Murray, and Sabonis and hope that you can contain/slow down other teams on a routine basis.

Now the DeRozan trade that I’m finding to be both realistic and helpful for us is the following…

DAL GETS: DeMar DeRozan
Why for DAL? The Mavs can still start Irving, Thompson/Christie, Washington, Davis, and Lively which prioritizes their defense and length identity, but they have the added luxury of having a great shot maker off the bench to help Irving and Davis (especially as Irving rehabs to start next year).

SAC GETS: Caleb Martin, Naji Marshall, & Dwight Powell
Why for SAC? Breakup the LaVine/DeRozan tandem and bring in a big, long, athletic forward who can play defense and hit the 3 (Marshall). Martin is also a solid rotational wing and gives us some insurance in case we can’t resign LaRavia.

My secondary “0.5” move would be to see if we could flip Malik Monk for Jrue Holiday (Boston desperately needs the cap savings). Or if BOS is not interested in Monk, perhaps he can be rerouted to ORL and either KCP or Jonathan Isaac can be sent to BOS instead. That would leave us with the following roster…

PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - LaVine / Ellis / Davis
SF - Murray / Martin
PF - Marshall / Jones
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Powell

If we can’t pull off the Holiday trade, I’d look to sign Ben Simmons to a cheap deal to see if his fit strikes gold with our core. Theoretically, it could workout really well but a lot of things are theoretical with him. Regardless, it would be a very good low risk move which would leave us with…

PG - Ellis / Monk
SG - LaVine / Carter / Davis
SF - Murray / Martin
PF - Simmons / Marshall / Jones
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Powell

Both of these directions balance our roster and give us an opportunity to compete next year while at the same time do not send out any young assets/picks.

Next offseason, LaVine will only have 1 year left on his deal (making him much easier to move) and with all of our picks that we have and LaVine’s big salary, we could be in a good spot to make a big trade to upgrade the roster further and elevate our ceiling. And in general, we’ll have another year under our belt for assessing what we have in guys like Murray, Ellis, and Carter.

You nailed it. The Monk trade, no, but trading DDR for a bunch of hard nosed defensive role players that can space it... that's the way forward for this team. Surround domas/lavine and Monk off the bench with 6 of those dudes and we probably have a good chance at having success.

Holiday just gets in the way of Carter/Keon development. The hope is one (or.both!) Of those guys can take a leap and have a Holiday type impact. I also think Jrue is really heading for that age cliff, he looks a step slower this year

 

[twslam07]

What PGs might be out there? Besides Ja and Trae.

Looking at PGs that…

1.) We can trade for (not FA signings)
2.) Could be available/attainable
3.) Fit next to LaVine

…you’re probably looking at…

1.) Jrue Holiday
2.) Lonzo Ball
3.) Fred VanVleet (probably a part of a 3 team trade where HOU is using VanVleet’s salary to match the star they’re getting)

 

[twslam07]

You nailed it. The Monk trade, no, but trading DDR for a bunch of hard nosed defensive role players that can space it... that's the way forward for this team. Surround domas/lavine and Monk off the bench with 6 of those dudes and we probably have a good chance at having success.

Holiday just gets in the way of Carter/Keon development. The hope is one (or.both!) Of those guys can take a leap and have a Holiday type impact. I also think Jrue is really heading for that age cliff, he looks a step slower this year

I disagree that Holiday gets in the way of Carter and Ellis.

He’ll be 35 years old at the start of next season. His minutes will likely continue to decline as he ages and I love the idea of of Carter and Ellis learning from Holiday as he ages out and hands the reigns to the young guards down the road (if they continue to develop).

Plus, Holiday is a big, strong guard who can guard up. You can easily play 3 guard lineups for stretches between Holiday, LaVine, Carter, and Ellis.

Just to give you a sense for how the minutes rotation could look…

PG - Holiday (28) / Carter (20)
SG - LaVine (22) / Ellis (26)
SF - Murray (30) / LaVine (12) / Martin (6)
PF - Marshall (26) / LaRavia (22)
C - Sabonis (34) / Valanciunas (14)

 

[hrdboild]

I disagree that Holiday gets in the way of Carter and Ellis.

He’ll be 35 years old at the start of next season. His minutes will likely continue to decline as he ages and I love the idea of of Carter and Ellis learning from Holiday as he ages out and hands the reigns to the young guards down the road (if they continue to develop).

Plus, Holiday is a big, strong guard who can guard up. You can easily play 3 guard lineups for stretches between Holiday, LaVine, Carter, and Ellis.

Just to give you a sense for how the minutes rotation could look…

PG - Holiday (28) / Carter (20)
SG - LaVine (22) / Ellis (26)
SF - Murray (30) / LaVine (12) / Martin (6)
PF - Marshall (26) / LaRavia (22)
C - Sabonis (34) / Valanciunas (14)

I love Jrue Holiday but we just finished off a season where we won 40 games and lost a play-in game on our home court because Dallas has size in the post and we do not (and still won't with your proposed rotation). Nothing about this situation points to a 35 year old PG being the final piece of the puzzle for me. I think you've just wasted a year and put us even further into a salary cap hole in the process with a full rebuild looming on the horizon.

Considering the other "one shot to fix this mess" ideas proposed though, I do kinda like the idea in theory of bringing in late career Jrue Holiday as a mentor for the PG of the future. I'm not sure that Carter is that guy yet. He has fantastic glue-guy skills and is already effective as a defensive disruptor though, so I could see him maybe growing into that role if he really focuses on making himself a reliable catch and shoot guy too.

So ultimately, I don't hate this idea. I could be talked into this team-building strategy as a way to kick off the "Doug Christie as head coach era" but you're really losing me with LaVine in the starting lineup and Ellis on the bench. If we're going to be bulldogs, let's just be bulldogs and make the starting backcourt Holiday and Ellis. LaVine gets to be the ultimate green light 6th man instead. He comes in and gets his 25 points every night and then gets out of the way and let's the starting lineup do all the dirty work of holding the lead. If he doesn't like it, he can leave at the end of the season.

 

[MizzouKing]

To fully invest in Keon Ellis and Keegan Murray.

Keon starting in the back-court with LaVine. Trusting Keegan to take the next step into a 17+ PPG scorer and the third option on offense.

Establish a defensive culture around LaVine/Domas. Are they good enough of a duo to really compete? Likely not, but we know Vivek isn't stripping this team down. So the best chance for them to succeed is as many kinds of players like a Devin Carter/Keon Ellis/Keegan Murray as we can get our hands on.

Would love to retain LaRavia. Especially if we could sell him on a bigger role next season, etc, I think he's a long-term great fit with what we need to be successful.

Absolutely, and if you ask me we have had a "Star" too many this last season. I want more opportunities for Murray and Keon to develop or they will never reach their full potential...at least not with us. These guys are very promising investments if we leave space for them on the offensive end of the court.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Absolutely, and if you ask me we have had a "Star" too many this last season. I want more opportunities for Murray and Keon to develop or they will never reach their full potential...at least not with us. These guys are very promising investments if we leave space for them on the offensive end of the court.

We had zero stars last year