Watching the kids grow up
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
edwardyoung111
G-League
Sure, all high school and maybe college players think they are the greatest.
But then you get to the NBA and a lot of them realize that they are now in a big pond and they are NOT "great" and start to search for their "role".
Some still think they are great and blame the coach for not allowing them to show their greatness and some rein themselves in (I am hoping that is what Bogi is doing because I "think" he is capable of being as great as Petrovic was going to be).
I think Fox may think he is better than he is and I don't know how reality will affect him. Most of the great ones, you know it right away. Iverson, you knew. Paul and Lillard played 35 minutes a game as rookies - their coaches just knew.
But what do I know?
It may be a bad sign that Mike Bratz was fired AFTER this new team was assembled. Also that Joerger and Vlade first went with, "This is not a one year turnaround - it will take two years to fully assemble this team, so, don't judge us after only one season" (and then each was extended an additional year) and then Vlade said, "This is a team that the fans will be proud of in a FEW years" (caps mine) and now Joerger is talking about three or four years to get where the Nuggets are now.
I marvel at the ability of pros and/or scouts to be CERTAIN of "who's got what talent".
Two examples:
1) After Nate The Great retired, he had a ribs place in SoMa. If his Rolls was outside (LP "42"), he was inside prepping for dinner and he was totally approachable as long as he worked while he chatted. When the Bulls drafted Brad Sellers and announced that he would be the first seven foot small forward, we dropped by and asked Nate if this was going to revolutionize the game. He answered, "It would if he could play - but he can't play". Sellers is now a good college coach but Nate was right about his NBA career.
2) There is a story that a really old and experienced Dodger scout saw Russell Martin playing shortstop in junior college, called the GM and said, Trust me on this - he can hit .300 for 10 years but he can't play the infield in the Majors. But I am telling you to sign him and we can convert him into a decent catcher and get his bat in the lineup". And he was right.
But then you get to the NBA and a lot of them realize that they are now in a big pond and they are NOT "great" and start to search for their "role".
Some still think they are great and blame the coach for not allowing them to show their greatness and some rein themselves in (I am hoping that is what Bogi is doing because I "think" he is capable of being as great as Petrovic was going to be).
I think Fox may think he is better than he is and I don't know how reality will affect him. Most of the great ones, you know it right away. Iverson, you knew. Paul and Lillard played 35 minutes a game as rookies - their coaches just knew.
But what do I know?
It may be a bad sign that Mike Bratz was fired AFTER this new team was assembled. Also that Joerger and Vlade first went with, "This is not a one year turnaround - it will take two years to fully assemble this team, so, don't judge us after only one season" (and then each was extended an additional year) and then Vlade said, "This is a team that the fans will be proud of in a FEW years" (caps mine) and now Joerger is talking about three or four years to get where the Nuggets are now.
I marvel at the ability of pros and/or scouts to be CERTAIN of "who's got what talent".
Two examples:
1) After Nate The Great retired, he had a ribs place in SoMa. If his Rolls was outside (LP "42"), he was inside prepping for dinner and he was totally approachable as long as he worked while he chatted. When the Bulls drafted Brad Sellers and announced that he would be the first seven foot small forward, we dropped by and asked Nate if this was going to revolutionize the game. He answered, "It would if he could play - but he can't play". Sellers is now a good college coach but Nate was right about his NBA career.
2) There is a story that a really old and experienced Dodger scout saw Russell Martin playing shortstop in junior college, called the GM and said, Trust me on this - he can hit .300 for 10 years but he can't play the infield in the Majors. But I am telling you to sign him and we can convert him into a decent catcher and get his bat in the lineup". And he was right.
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ParniValjak
All-Star
I wasn’t talking about high school or college kids. I was talking about star in professional sports. Huge difference.
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
He's actually pretty heady.. there was a play against the Warriors on a break where he intentionally cut in front of the trailing defender, slowed down, got the bump and let that carry him to the basket for the layup, preventing any sort of challenge or shot block. I think his vision and understanding of when to just float it up like you said will come in time
You wanna talk about improving and showing how important Hield is to our core he’s improved his passing and overall game.
Last 7 games
23-6-6
22-7-7
24-6-3
3-1-0 14 minuets
18-5-4
0-3-3
20-5-1
That’s 21ppg- 5.8rpg- 4apg if you take out those 2 terrible games he had. He’s doing more than just shooting like we wanted
Last 7 games
23-6-6
22-7-7
24-6-3
3-1-0 14 minuets
18-5-4
0-3-3
20-5-1
That’s 21ppg- 5.8rpg- 4apg if you take out those 2 terrible games he had. He’s doing more than just shooting like we wanted
King Baller
All-Star
I agree with you JG. These Young Fellas are getting better every game. I also like the Vets, I just wish ZBO was 7 or 8 years younger.
Larry David
Starter
The Kings have no direction. They had a flawed all star, no elite prospects, and realized the math picking in the middle of the lottery is bad for grabbing elite talent.
Thus, in the last year of taking, they claimed to be committed to securing a bottom 3 record and excellent odds at at top 3 pick 47% chance).
They tried to be competitive early playing vets and chased feel good wins they could have easily “adjusted” their way out of with rotations like the Warriors and riding VC to a win over the Cavs. Now, holding too many wins, they’ve abandoned their initial plan and are touting a new plan and their successes to pump up the handful of remaining die hards.
As always, for over 10 years, the Kings have a winning percentage in the low 30. They don’t have an all star, let alone two. None of their prospects are elite. Math says the odds strongly favor they pick around 6-8 this year, no pick next year, odds are bad they sign an impact free agent this summer.
Fox might get a jumper and feel for the game and become elite. A few of the other prospects have upside but aren’t a strong bets to become all stars playing for a franchise that’s average at player development, and the Kings are well below that.
That you like this crummy team more than other crummy Kings team makes a ton of sense. But past Kings teams won’t be on the schedule the rest of this decade.
I’m sure those that will reply assert that I’m being too negative on the trajectories of these players. Ok. But based upon objectivity and/or ability, the track record for a lot of you on that issue is spotty for many and bad for others (often those railing against some being too negative)
The Kings have a dysfunctional ownership ownership group, an owner that can’t stick to a plan, a GM that no other team would hire as a GM if he became available, some nice pieces, but no clear path towards becoming a real team this decade.
The Kings claimed they were prepared to take their medicine this year and try math. Once again, sticking to a plan for 18 months was simply too much. So no, I won’t delight at ok prospects defeating 25% of an NBA team as progress when it looks a lot like more of the same for the most abysmal situation in the NBA one and a half decades running.
Thus, in the last year of taking, they claimed to be committed to securing a bottom 3 record and excellent odds at at top 3 pick 47% chance).
They tried to be competitive early playing vets and chased feel good wins they could have easily “adjusted” their way out of with rotations like the Warriors and riding VC to a win over the Cavs. Now, holding too many wins, they’ve abandoned their initial plan and are touting a new plan and their successes to pump up the handful of remaining die hards.
As always, for over 10 years, the Kings have a winning percentage in the low 30. They don’t have an all star, let alone two. None of their prospects are elite. Math says the odds strongly favor they pick around 6-8 this year, no pick next year, odds are bad they sign an impact free agent this summer.
Fox might get a jumper and feel for the game and become elite. A few of the other prospects have upside but aren’t a strong bets to become all stars playing for a franchise that’s average at player development, and the Kings are well below that.
That you like this crummy team more than other crummy Kings team makes a ton of sense. But past Kings teams won’t be on the schedule the rest of this decade.
I’m sure those that will reply assert that I’m being too negative on the trajectories of these players. Ok. But based upon objectivity and/or ability, the track record for a lot of you on that issue is spotty for many and bad for others (often those railing against some being too negative)
The Kings have a dysfunctional ownership ownership group, an owner that can’t stick to a plan, a GM that no other team would hire as a GM if he became available, some nice pieces, but no clear path towards becoming a real team this decade.
The Kings claimed they were prepared to take their medicine this year and try math. Once again, sticking to a plan for 18 months was simply too much. So no, I won’t delight at ok prospects defeating 25% of an NBA team as progress when it looks a lot like more of the same for the most abysmal situation in the NBA one and a half decades running.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
That's what I've noticed too and I've made a point of it in a game thread that other aspects of his game is coming to the light and that's great to see. He also has put a lot of emphasis on defending, he isn't always where he needs to be but you can't fault his effort and desire to play defense.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
if Z-Bo was 7 or 8 years younger he wouldn't be playing for a lottery team, he'd be looking to compete for a playoff spot.
John Galt
Starter
Where is the part where the Kings "claimed to be committed to securing a bottom three record"? I missed that memo.
It seems you believe that coach Joerger is methodically deciding whether to play for a feel-good win or a lotto loss, based on changing whims from upper management. I just think that is super unlikely. Like infinitesimally unlikely.
I think he's trying to have the most successful team he can in three years and he's doing it his way (earn the minutes philosophy).
I don't think Vlade or Vivek or anybody else will instruct Joerger on what to do with his roster (like Art Howe vs Billy Beane in moneyball).
I don't think the Kings are objectively one of the three worst teams in the league - so it would take a stretch of morality and fair play to wind up with a third worst record - and I don't think the Kings are made of that stuff.
Disclaimer: I like this crummy team more than other crummy teams, and I don't think in terms of "championship or bust". I'd rather have a run like the Jazz had back in the day than 15 years of suck for one championship parade. I know lots of people feel opposite.
The tripped-out thing about the "championship or bust" mentality is that it presupposes that there's no value in going to a regular season game, unless the team you root for is a championship contender, which I imagine is a much easier sell to someone who isn't paying for tickets in the meantime.
eMBarkat10n
Bench
Bump.
He's been really good at reading the pick and roll with Koufos lately. I don't know if Bogdan has been spending time with him or what but his pick and roll passes have been fantastic lately.
His shooting doesn't surprise me because he's a top tier shooter but the ball distribution has been a great thing to see lately.
If Buddy can rebound and pass the ball, he's going to take himself from 6th man to starter because that'll negate his defense.
eMBarkat10n
Bench
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't be so quick to hand him that distinction just yet. He's still young, so let's see him be a solid backup for the Kings for many seasons to come before making such a declaration.
I will say, though, that he definitely has waaaaaaaaaay more potential to be that "Bobby Jackson" type of player than any of our previous back up PG's had since Bobby left the team...
Sac.1989
Starter
Its all good. I think you severely overrate the back up point guards we have had since Bobby Jackson if you are not willing to give Frank Mason his dues though. Ty Lawson was solid for a little but really when you take into account potential and consistency in role as a backup you really cant beat Frank Mason
Heres a list for comparison:
Jason Hart, Poo Jetar, Sergio Rodrigez, Aaron Brooks, Ray McCallum - all past back up point guards
eMBarkat10n
Bench
I don't think you understand my point....
I am not overrating any of the previous back up point guards. Not even by a mile.
You bring up potential and the fact that you can't beat Frank Mason, when I originally said, in my post, that Frank already has more potential to be a "Bobby Jackson" type of player than any of the guys you listed ever did during their run on the Kings. I am a bit confused as a result...
I think I've given him way more than just "his dues", as you state it, by stating that he already has way more potential than any of our previous back up point guards since Bobby J...
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
you forgot Andre Miller >_>
ParniValjak
All-Star
And Isaiah Thomas for a while there. He was backing up Vasquez who according to PDA was our next big thing at PG
I have to agree with Sac.1989 on this one. He specifically said "the greatest backup point guard since Bobby Jackson." I don't think there's any real question unless you can name a back-up who was better. Looking at the list that was given, I wouldn't consider any of those guys effective let alone "greatest since bobby"... He's not saying Mason will be the next Bobby Jackson.
And Isaiah Thomas for a while there. He was backing up Vasquez who according to PDA was our next big thing at PG
Really makes you wonder what might have happened had IT been satisfied with the role of backup, doesn't it? Or is it just me?
eMBarkat10n
Bench
And I will still, respectfully, disagree. If this is the same Frank Mason we see next season, I will then agree. Like I did say, he is well on his way to being that guy. I just need to see a little more to pass final judgment. But, maybe that's just me being harshly realistic, or realistically harsh....whichever way you wanna spin it.I have to agree with Sac.1989 on this one. He specifically said "the greatest backup point guard since Bobby Jackson." I don't think there's any real question unless you can name a back-up who was better. Looking at the list that was given, I wouldn't consider any of those guys effective let alone "greatest since bobby"... He's not saying Mason will be the next Bobby Jackson.
But it's not about the future or how he goes. Right now, wouldn't you agree he's the best back-up of those listed? It's not about being realistic, which is one of the phrases I hate most on this board.
It's about making a judgment today, at this point in time, subject to revision/review/retraction at some point in the future. If you still disagree, based on that explanation, I give up.
eMBarkat10n
Bench
He's well on his way to being that back up, absolutely. And I will be extremely shocked if he doesn't get there...But it's not about the future or how he goes. Right now, wouldn't you agree he's the best back-up of those listed? It's not about being realistic, which is one of the phrases I hate most on this board.
If you still disagree, based on that explanation, I give up.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I would have been happy with a compromise where he is a starter but one that knew his place and was willing to play 2nd or 3rd fiddle rather than a hero ball.
Cousins - Gay - IT under Malone could have made a pretty solid play off team with some tweaks along the way had the front office and ownership had any resemblance of direction or basketball nous.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/3/21/17145338/silver-linings-playbook-eliminated-teams
I was reading 'Sacramento Kings: Buddy Hield, the sixth man of the future' on FanSided for iOS and I thought you might be interested in reading it too.
Hield getting love he’s gonna be lethal off the bench especially with his new found passing and effort on defense.
I was reading 'Sacramento Kings: Buddy Hield, the sixth man of the future' on FanSided for iOS and I thought you might be interested in reading it too.
Hield getting love he’s gonna be lethal off the bench especially with his new found passing and effort on defense.
