[Trade] Warriors have obvious Jonathan Kuminga trade demand after latest Kings reports

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The_Jamal said:
They're literally doing everything in their power to just completely decimate their bridge with Kuminga. It's mind-boggling to watch

"We don't like you, at all. Not even one bit. But we also don't want to see you maybe go be a star elsewhere."

Crazy, lol
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I know I'm like a broken record on this, but that organization already made their bed in my eyes years ago with how they handled the Jordan Poole incident. That was when their enabling of Draymond Green's bad behavior took a turn into being indefensible. Any time I see Steve Kerr speak publicly now I can't look past his two-faced double standards. The Sabonis stomp happened at the end of that same 2022-2023 season and again his coach rushed to his defense. He's only gotten worse since then, as people tend to do when they're allowed to tell themselves and everyone else that everything they do wrong is someone else's fault.

Supposedly Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green reached out to Kuminga to tell him they want him to stay but from everything I know about those two guys as teammates, that probably had the opposite effect they intended. As early as 2023 there were reports out of the Golden State camp that Kuminga and Green were not on good terms...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1682129190450253825

This has been a festering wound that they've ignored for the past three years and it's finally going to cost them something tangible. If it looks like I was defending Golden State earlier -- I wasn't. I hate that organization as much as anyone else here. I just don't think we have any right to talk down to them when our own organization has been it's own kind of management disaster. When the Warriors inevitably collapse, I don't want the Kings to be sparring with them for last place in the Pacific division. I want the Warriors to be as far back as possible in the rear view mirror.
 
hrdboild said:
I know I'm like a broken record on this, but that organization already made their bed in my eyes years ago with how they handled the Jordan Poole incident. That was when their enabling of Draymond Green's bad behavior took a turn into being indefensible. Any time I see Steve Kerr speak publicly now I can't look past his two-faced double standards. The Sabonis stomp happened at the end of that same 2022-2023 season and again his coach rushed to his defense. He's only gotten worse since then, as people tend to do when they're allowed to tell themselves and everyone else that everything they do wrong is someone else's fault.

Supposedly Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green reached out to Kuminga to tell him they want him to stay but from everything I know about those two guys as teammates, that probably had the opposite effect they intended. As early as 2003 there were reports out of the Golden State camp that Kuminga and Green were not on good terms...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1682129190450253825

This has been a festering wound that they've ignored for the past three years and it's finally going to cost them something tangible. If it looks like I was defending Golden State earlier -- I wasn't. I hate that organization as much as anyone else here. I just don't think we have any right to talk down to them when our own organization has been it's own kind of management disaster. When the Warriors inevitably collapse, I don't want the Kings to be sparring with them for last place in the Pacific division. I want the Warriors to be as far back as possible in the rear view mirror.
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Steve Kerr was one of my favorite basketball humans and I have lost all respect for him for the same reasons.
 
Joshyjosh31 said:
This should’ve happened years ago
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2023 was two years ago. Why should it have happened earlier? Dude was in the top 5 greatest UofA Wildcats all time, I'd followed him over 35 years by then. The fact that I can't bear to look at his face today is really something.
 
Tetsujin said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1969010979414450432

Oof. Warriors are screwed
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It's like 40 minutes of the agent being all aww-shucks and reasonable and then it closes with a salvo:
I think he's pretty important, they won't let him go, and if you're going to tell somebody "Your contract is over with us and you have a team that wants to give you $100M or so and a player option and a starting role, but we're not going to let you go, and we're not going to give you a great deal, we're going to give a deal we can take advantage of," I wouldn't ask somebody necessarily to be happy about that.
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Definitely oof.
 
I just don't understand the Warriors' MO here at all. What are they even trying to accomplish? They don't want Kuminga. Kerr doesn't trust him and won't play him. So how are they going to extract value from a re-signed Kuminga via trade next season when he's pissed off and riding the pine once again? Is Mike Dunleavy going to mandate that Kuminga get minutes so that he has something resembling trade value at the deadline? How is the Monk + protected first rounder package the Kings previously offered unappealing in a world in which a re-signed Kuminga brings back less than that package because every GM in the world knows the Warriors are desperate to dump him for someone Kerr would actually give minutes to in a potential playoff game?

And this is before you consider that Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green are both on standby to nuke the locker room at any moment as this iteration of the Warriors' window slams shut. They're less than two weeks from training camp and don't even have a full roster. Just a massive fail all around from Dunleavy's front office. Trade Kuminga to the Kings / don't trade him to the Kings. Whatever. They should have been out front maximizing whatever they could get via sign-and-trade much earlier in the off-season. Now they get a big fat distraction heading into training camp in what could be Stephen Curry's last ride, and whether Kuminga signs the QO or signs the deal the Warriors currently have on the table, Kerr simply will not give him meaningful playing time, so Kuminga's still going to represent a big fat distraction until he's ultimately traded.

Golden State's vaunted "two timelines" strategy obviously didn't pan out, and that's a bummer for them, but rather than extricating themselves from their prior roster mismanagement, it's like they're doubling down on the "worst of all worlds" outcome. They haven't meaningfully invested in the talent they did draft, they've alienated their young players and veterans alike, and they don't seem terribly concerned about alienating any potential future signings who are watching Golden State's mismanagement of the Kuminga situation, nor do they seem terribly concerned about throwing away Steph's remaining years by digging their heels into rake after rake after rake that proceeds to slap them in the face. I mean, it's not a bad bit of schadenfreude for any long-suffering Kings fan, but it still staggers the mind.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
It's like 40 minutes of the agent being all aww-shucks and reasonable and then it closes with a salvo:

Definitely oof.
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And the reality is none of that money was ever out there for his client to begin with. lol. This sure sounds like a lot of wiggling around just to end up in the same spot. I guess he's got to try.
 
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TheMobb said:
Crazy to see an agent go on national TV and lay the cards out on the table in the middle of an active negotiation.
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Yeah, tells me he's losing. If he gambles with legit money on the table and his client gets Bonzi'd then good luck getting players to trust you. Even if this isn't his decision.
 
Padrino said:
I just don't understand the Warriors' MO here at all. What are they even trying to accomplish? They don't want Kuminga. Kerr doesn't trust him and won't play him. So how are they going to extract value from a re-signed Kuminga via trade next season when he's pissed off and riding the pine once again? Is Mike Dunleavy going to mandate that Kuminga get minutes so that he has something resembling trade value at the deadline? How is the Monk + protected first rounder package the Kings previously offered unappealing in a world in which a re-signed Kuminga brings back less than that package because every GM in the world knows the Warriors are desperate to dump him for someone Kerr would actually give minutes to in a potential playoff game?

And this is before you consider that Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green are both on standby to nuke the locker room at any moment as this iteration of the Warriors' window slams shut. They're less than two weeks from training camp and don't even have a full roster. Just a massive fail all around from Dunleavy's front office. Trade Kuminga to the Kings / don't trade him to the Kings. Whatever. They should have been out front maximizing whatever they could get via sign-and-trade much earlier in the off-season. Now they get a big fat distraction heading into training camp in what could be Stephen Curry's last ride, and whether Kuminga signs the QO or signs the deal the Warriors currently have on the table, Kerr simply will not give him meaningful playing time, so Kuminga's still going to represent a big fat distraction until he's ultimately traded.

Golden State's vaunted "two timelines" strategy obviously didn't pan out, and that's a bummer for them, but rather than extricating themselves from their prior roster mismanagement, it's like they're doubling down on the "worst of all worlds" outcome. They haven't meaningfully invested in the talent they did draft, they've alienated their young players and veterans alike, and they don't seem terribly concerned about alienating any potential future signings who are watching Golden State's mismanagement of the Kuminga situation, nor do they seem terribly concerned about throwing away Steph's remaining years by digging their heels into rake after rake after rake that proceeds to slap them in the face. I mean, it's not a bad bit of schadenfreude for any long-suffering Kings fan, but it still staggers the mind.
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We saw our own version of this just last season with Kevin Huerter being dangled in every trade proposal over the summer but remaining on the roster come October so that we entered the season with Malik Monk, Keon Ellis, and K'Von all feeling like they had some claim to the starting SG role. I get that they (GS) want to extract maximum trade value from Kuminga with very few other ways to improve their roster aside from scooping up vets on minimum contracts who want to play with Steph, but if they do end up signing Kuminga and trying to patch things up chemistry-wise during the season it could end up being a huge mistake.
 
Padrino said:
I just don't understand the Warriors' MO here at all. What are they even trying to accomplish? They don't want Kuminga. Kerr doesn't trust him and won't play him. So how are they going to extract value from a re-signed Kuminga via trade next season when he's pissed off and riding the pine once again? Is Mike Dunleavy going to mandate that Kuminga get minutes so that he has something resembling trade value at the deadline? How is the Monk + protected first rounder package the Kings previously offered unappealing in a world in which a re-signed Kuminga brings back less than that package because every GM in the world knows the Warriors are desperate to dump him for someone Kerr would actually give minutes to in a potential playoff game?

And this is before you consider that Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green are both on standby to nuke the locker room at any moment as this iteration of the Warriors' window slams shut. They're less than two weeks from training camp and don't even have a full roster. Just a massive fail all around from Dunleavy's front office. Trade Kuminga to the Kings / don't trade him to the Kings. Whatever. They should have been out front maximizing whatever they could get via sign-and-trade much earlier in the off-season. Now they get a big fat distraction heading into training camp in what could be Stephen Curry's last ride, and whether Kuminga signs the QO or signs the deal the Warriors currently have on the table, Kerr simply will not give him meaningful playing time, so Kuminga's still going to represent a big fat distraction until he's ultimately traded.

Golden State's vaunted "two timelines" strategy obviously didn't pan out, and that's a bummer for them, but rather than extricating themselves from their prior roster mismanagement, it's like they're doubling down on the "worst of all worlds" outcome. They haven't meaningfully invested in the talent they did draft, they've alienated their young players and veterans alike, and they don't seem terribly concerned about alienating any potential future signings who are watching Golden State's mismanagement of the Kuminga situation, nor do they seem terribly concerned about throwing away Steph's remaining years by digging their heels into rake after rake after rake that proceeds to slap them in the face. I mean, it's not a bad bit of schadenfreude for any long-suffering Kings fan, but it still staggers the mind.
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I really think they just like F'ing with peoples emotions and putting them in their place. They kind of did the same thing with Moody. Vivek runs his ship like a goober CEO but at least he tries to be nice, the Warriors act like the board of OmniCorp, haha.
 
SacTownKid said:
Yeah, tells me he's losing. If he gambles with legit money on the table and his client gets Bonzi'd then good luck getting players to trust you. Even if this isn't his decision.
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It did seem like he was trying to get the point across like they could take the QO. But if that were true why not just do it instead of saying it on TV?
 
hrdboild said:
We saw our own version of this just last season with Kevin Huerter being dangled in every trade proposal over the summer but remaining on the roster come October so that we entered the season with Malik Monk, Keon Ellis, and K'Von all feeling like they had some claim to the starting SG role. I get that they (GS) want to extract maximum trade value from Kuminga with very few other ways to improve their roster aside from scooping up vets on minimum contracts who want to play with Steph, but if they do end up signing Kuminga and trying to patch things up chemistry-wise during the season it could end up being a huge mistake.
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I see a ton of difference in the two situations, but your point is taken that the Warriors are setting themselves up for all kinds of failure by carrying this baggage into a season that may be Steph's and Draymond's last shot at competing for a title together.
 
SacTownKid said:
I really think they just like F'ing with peoples emotions and putting them in their place. They kind of did the same thing with Moody. Vivek runs his ship like a goober CEO but at least he tries to be nice, the Warriors act like the board of OmniCorp, haha.
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Keep it up, I say. With Steph approaching retirement and an irreparable relationship with Kuminga, there's nothing for that franchise to hang their hat on. Nobody to pass the baton to. No promising young talent on the roster. No organization-wide culture of excellence to sustain them, a la the Miami Heat. You don't get to be Pat Riley unless you're Pat Riley, but if the Warriors want to play pretend, then let 'em. The Kings certainly aren't in an enviable position, so I don't mind the Warriors making it tougher on themselves to climb back up the mountain while the Kings sort out their own mess.
 
Padrino said:
I see a ton of difference in the two situations, but your point is taken that the Warriors are setting themselves up for all kinds of failure by carrying this baggage into a season that may be Steph's and Draymond's last shot at competing for a title together.
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It's certainly a very different set of circumstances but our own situation represents a kind of worst-case scenario for what can happen when unresolved roster issues carry over into the season. The uncertainty over roles was a huge issue for the first month of the reason and that contributed to the slow start which snowballed into a coach firing and a star negotiating for a trade in public. Ultimately Monte ended up doing what we all thought he was going to do during the summer -- trade Kevin Huerter and acquire a veteran backup big and bench SF -- but he made those moves under duress with the season already tarnished and the star player he'd staked his reputation on forcing his way out the door. The lesson in all of that for me is that it probably is worth taking a lesser trade in order to get your roster built before the season starts. Trying to juggle minutes and roles based on trade value and hope the uncertainty won't impact team chemistry is just a bad situation to put yourself into.
 
I listened today to the podcast with Brian Windhorst and Kuminga's agent, Aaron Turner (and Anthony Slater). Turner actually seemed very calm and reasonable and made a lot of sense. I have not really been in favor of getting Kuminga since I'm not sure we need another ball dominant player who drives a lot, albeit very well, taking shots away from Keegan! Nevertheless, Kuminga is a very promising young talent who apparently wants to come to the Kings (apparently if the Kings move DeRozan to make room for a starting position for him). I was impressed when Turner said that of all of his clients, Kuminga is the hardest working one. On a scale of 1 to 10, he said that Kuminga is an 11! If anything, he said that he tries too hard. He said that Kuminga is willing to sacrifice more of his development to further Steph Curry for a few more years, but it is a major sacrifice, and so the Warriors need to make a commensurate sacrifice, which is marginal (Windy's word), to give Kuminga a player option. Anyway, it made me feel better about Kuminga if that would ever work out.
 
TheMobb said:
It did seem like he was trying to get the point across like they could take the QO. But if that were true why not just do it instead of saying it on TV?
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Signing the QO is the absolute worst case scenario. 3 year MLE with player option is better if there are any suitors that can offer it, knowing GS will match it.
 
Padrino said:
Keep it up, I say. With Steph approaching retirement and an irreparable relationship with Kuminga, there's nothing for that franchise to hang their hat on. Nobody to pass the baton to. No promising young talent on the roster. No organization-wide culture of excellence to sustain them, a la the Miami Heat. You don't get to be Pat Riley unless you're Pat Riley, but if the Warriors want to play pretend, then let 'em. The Kings certainly aren't in an enviable position, so I don't mind the Warriors making it tougher on themselves to climb back up the mountain while the Kings sort out their own mess.
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The Warriors and the Clippers death penaltying their franchises would be huge given we are stuck in the most impossible division in the tougher conference (that could of course change if the Texas 3-step runs the league in 2-3 years). Coupled with the hole Phoenix is digging themselves we could actually be in a "normal" division again.
 
Section 101 said:
Hmm, what's worse for the Warrior salary position, taking the QO or releasing his rights? Could just say release me now or I'm signing the QO.
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An outright release seems really unlikely, if only for the fact that the QO is a quite reasonable salary.

Salarywise, I think the W's actually want him closer to that $25M number because it gives them more ability to trade for larger pieces. Being over the cap (but just a little) actually makes adding more salary much harder, so using Bird to get salary up and then tweaking from there is the way to go.

Since they seem hellbent on not doing an S&T, the Warriors should just cave, give him the PO on the third year, and then look to trade him at the deadline. It seems like the obvious best strategy, but they are stuck on getting a team-friendly TO in the deal and as such they're in danger of really shooting themselves in the foot, and making one angry player on top of that.
 
Section 101 said:
Hmm, what's worse for the Warrior salary position, taking the QO or releasing his rights? Could just say release me now or I'm signing the QO.
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seems like all the Warriors options are less than they were hoping for so rather than making lemonade from lemons they are deciding to just drop nukes on the player and put everyone on blast that they run the show.
 
TheMobb said:
But is going on TV and podcasts the best way to get that leverage? Because now if the Warriors budge the optics won’t look good.
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I don't really know. But on the other hand, if the Warriors don't budge and the QO happens, the optics will also not look good. Kuminga is out there saying, "Hey, just treat me fairly" and if they job him, everybody is going to realize that's exactly what happened.
 
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