Voisin: Petrie's hand will be forced...

[KingKong]

KingKong - What part do you agree with? The "Miller has to reassert himself as a bruiser underneath" part? If so, could you refresh my memory because I certainly cannot remember the time when Miller WAS a bruiser underneath...

Miller has always been a bruiser, but he needs to become better at protecting the paint (along with the rest of the team). That's what the Center postion is there for. There was a time (not too long ago), where Miller would grab 10+ rebounds a game. For whatever reason that's not happening anymore. Apart from that, this team needs an identity badly, and if it means that Peja is our main ofensive weapon, then so be it. If it means Bibby has to become more of a playmaker, or if Bonzi needs to get everybody energized with a thunderous dunk, so be it. If it means Shareef needs to play more in the paint, than that's what I want to see happening. Every players role needs to be either defined or redefined.

 

[VF21]

You and I must have totally different definitions of bruiser...

 

[BMiller52]

Miller has always been a bruiser, but he needs to become better at protecting the paint (along with the rest of the team). That's what the Center postion is there for. There was a time (not too long ago), where Miller would grab 10+ rebounds a game. For whatever reason that's not happening anymore.

Brad's a jumpshooting center dude... that's why we got him, he fits the princeton offense like a key to a door.

 

[4cwebb]

If it means Bibby has to become more of a playmaker, or if Bonzi needs to get everybody energized with a thunderous dunk, so be it.

Just out of curiosity, since I haven't seen a single Kings game with Bonzi as a participant, has he taken to laying the ball up on fastbreak or other situations where he could dunk the ball (but opts not to do so)? If not, I'm confused by these references to him letting loose, as if he could easily go throw down a thunderous dunk, but is not doing so intentionally.

 

[KP]

I keep hearing of his fabled past as a "bruiser," or a particularly "nasty" player who liked to "bang around" down low.

Didn't see enough games of his before he was traded to Sac to know if its true, but it certainly hasn't been since he's been here.

Yeah, but he throws a mean headband.

 

[KingKong]

Brad's a jumpshooting center dude... that's why we got him, he fits the princeton offense like a key to a door.

Dude, that's great and all, but i'm talking about defense, not offense. I have zero problems with Brad on offense (he could develop a post game though), Brad doesn't intimidate anybody down low, that's a major part of why our interior defense is so awful. Brad was a bruiser back in his Bulls and Pacers days, but since coming to Sacto it is non-existant.

 

[KingKong]

Just out of curiosity, since I haven't seen a single Kings game with Bonzi as a participant, has he taken to laying the ball up on fastbreak or other situations where he could dunk the ball (but opts not to do so)? If not, I'm confused by these references to him letting loose, as if he could easily go throw down a thunderous dunk, but is not doing so intentionally.

I'm not too sure, but I'm of the opinion (now) that whoever can dunk the ball, should. It's the highest pecentage shot and it energizes everybody. It might be that since the team is not on the same page that there hasn't been too many opportunities to do so.

 

[4cwebb]

Dude, that's great and all, but i'm talking about defense, not offense. I have zero problems with Brad on offense (he could develop a post game though), Brad doesn't intimidate anybody down low, that's a major part of why our interior defense is so awful. Brad was a bruiser back in his Bulls and Pacers days, but since coming to Sacto it is non-existant.

Yes, but that was before he was widely recognized as one of the better-passing big men in the game. Similar problem to that of Russell Crowe's character in LA Confidential --- got tired of every assuming he was just muscle for hire, and wanted to actually "work some cases" (or in Brad's case, show that he had some actual skills) to show that he wasn't all brawn and no brains.

Problem is that the Kings don't have anyone else to play the heavy now that OTag is off the roster.

Add to that the fact that the Kings don't have any shotblockers like Jermaine O'Neal, and it almost overexposes Brad's defensive weaknesses.

 

[swisshh]

Seems amnesia is rampant. Adelman plays the bodies he is given. When the kings consisted of good athletes, it was an athletic team. Webb was a good athlete (when healthy). Bobby J, Hedo, Jimmy Jackson, lots of good athletes have played good athletic ball with the kings. It's Mr. Geoff "wonder boy" Petrie who has stacked the team with gravitationally challenged non athletes. In fact, when a player demonstrates (like Greg Ostertag) that they are not trying to work out and better themselves, they get benched by Coach. Vlade is the exception.

Amnesia? Oh lord.

You could keep healthy Webber and Bobby on your list. Hedo? Sorta. Jim Jackson? He was long past his athletic years when he got here.

Now let's go down a list of athletic players Adleman didn't want to play.

Young Corliss, Young Abdul Wahad, Gerald Wallace, Keon Clark, Maurice Evans--Oh wait you say he played Evans? Sure, here and there, but how long did it take Adleman to figure out to play Maurice on Ray Allen in the playoffs? And was that really Adleman figuring that out or a desperation move because Mobley got banged up? He played Keon? Yet again, not in the playoffs against a Dallas team he gave nightmares to all season.

And Hedo? Hedo was at the end of the bench near his last year here, losing minutes to older less athletic players.

Where's the amnesia now?

 

[4cwebb]

Amnesia? Oh lord.

You could keep healthy Webber and Bobby on your list. Hedo? Sorta. Jim Jackson? He was long past his athletic years when he got here.

JJax may have been past his athletic prime, but he knew his role was to come in and play hard nosed defense, fight for rebounds on both ends of the floor, and in general give maximum effort because (a) he wasn't going to be playing starter's minutes, and (b) if he didn't give maximum effort, he wouldn't have taken Hedo's minutes.

Now let's go down a list of athletic players Adleman didn't want to play.

Young Corliss, Young Abdul Wahad, Gerald Wallace, Keon Clark, Maurice Evans--Oh wait you say he played Evans? Sure, here and there, but how long did it take Adleman to figure out to play Maurice on Ray Allen in the playoffs? And was that really Adleman figuring that out or a desperation move because Mobley got banged up? He played Keon? Yet again, not in the playoffs against a Dallas team he gave nightmares to all season.

At no age was Corliss athletic in the NBA. Period. He was able to out-muscle and out-position just about anyone in college basketball (except for Big George Zidek of UCLA when the Hogs lost the title game in '95 --- a preview of the troubles Corliss would face in his NBA career as a PF trapped in a SF's body without superior athleticism on his side --- he's no Charles Barkley).

Wahad and Wallace couldn't seem to get out of Adelman's doghouse for various reasons, and, similarly with Evans, none of the three was seasoned enough (I know, chicken or egg problem here) to combine his athleticism with his head to play smart, consistent defense. Let's not pretend as if any of the three have gone on to become the next Scottie Pippen or anything.

With Wallace and Evans, of course, the jury is still out. But Wallace has yet to show an SG's skillset, and unless you wanted him to take Peja's minutes, he just was not going to get the time here. As for Evans, I don't think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he's better than what we have now --- guess Petrie just didn't want to give up on his first round draft pick to keep Evans around.

Clark --- I'm with you here, although he didn't guard Dirk as well as Hedo because he didn't like to move his feet out on the perimeter, so he lost minutes in that Dallas series for whatever reason. Of course, I can't recall whether Hedo gots lots of minutes, either, but I think he definitely got a bump in minutes after CWebb went down. I don't blame Keon for being mad about it, but I don't necessarily blame Adelman for going with Peja and Hedo on Dirk, either, given the history those two guys had in guarding him in the past.

And Hedo? Hedo was at the end of the bench near his last year here, losing minutes to older less athletic players.

Less athletic players that competed harder on the court and were willing to do the things that Hedo wouldn't or didn't do --- like rebound on the offensive end of the floor and make layups in traffic. That was always the frustrating thing to me about Hedo --- he had triple the offensive ability of DC, but he couldn't outwork him, not by a long shot, so he couldn't take his minutes. Then, JJax gets signed due to various injuries, and basically spent the rest of the season stealing Hedo's lunch money and punching him in the stomach taking his playing time because he was willing to just flat-out outwork Hedo for court time. Infuriating considering that Hedo had shown in the Laker series the year before that he could be a very positive contributor to the Kings coming off the bench, but he didn't have the burning desire to trash whoever stood in his way of court time (or if he did, it didn't show up in practice --- I'm giving Adelman a bit of leeway here as I assume he would've rewarded such efforts from Hedo).

 

[Kings113]

Evans also changed his mind on money in late July, whereas before in early July, he was ok with the qualifying offer. We wouldn't of been able to get/go after SAR had we paid him what he wanted (multi-year deal, 1.5/1 mill area).

I also still don't really like our swingman depth this season.