UPDATED: Va. Beach mayor sketches out proposed arena deal

[Mike0476]

Crown Downtown will be in Los Angeles this Saturday along with KingsFans.com for the 4th Annual Kings at Clippers game. Follow us on Twitter (https://twitter.com/CrownDowntown) and like us on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/CrownDowntown) as we will post pictures and videos from our LA Live and NBA game experiences. Now onto the main event...

More on the very latest out of Virginia Beach.

According to the Virginia Pilot, here's how the math breaks down:

Arena price tag = $300 million

The city would contribute $195 million

The state will be asked for $150 million, of which $70 million would be for the arena

Comcast-Spectacor would put in $35 million

When you add it up that leaves $0 contribution from Live Nation and the unnamed professional sports team.

Basically, the city and state would contribute $265 million toward a $300 million arena. Don't forget the $80 million that is still out there for helping a team move.

Then there is this : Councilman John Moss called a $35 million contribution from Comcast-Spectacor “way too low.”

http://hamptonroads.com/2012/11/va-beach-mayor-sketches-out-proposed-arena-deal

 

[Sac.1989]

its not looking good

 

[Rug King]

Don't support the maloofs, let them leave even broker and humiliated.

In the end, they're leaving us anyway so don't let them leave with your money in their pocket.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

its not looking good

Don't be so quick on the draw, there. First, the state of Virginia has to agree to kick in $150M. The state, not the city. I'm not sure I've seen a state kick in for an arena before.

Second, you've got the council pointing out that the private money, all of which is coming from Comcast, is way too low. Can they really get a deal done with Comcast only kicking in 10%?

Third, the $80M overage has to be enough to cover relocation and moving expenses for the Kings. Relocation is an arbitrary number, but $30M seems to be the accepted floor. The Kings owe $70M to Sacramento, with penalties for early payoff, which would be forced upfront. That's over $100M already. The Kings have to take a hit of at least $20M to do this.

Fourth, there's not really an arena where they can play right now. So for the three years it would take to build a new arena the Virginia Beach Traitors would be forced to either 1) play in a college arena that seats about 11K or 2) stay in Sacramento where they'd get no support at all. Either way, that's another huge financial hit for owners who have no other source of actual income and are putting a crappy product on the floor to begin with.

Fifth, all the evidence suggests that the league doesn't want the Kings to move - certainly not to Virginia Beach. The Maloofs would appear to have about zero friends in other league offices right now. So the relocation fees may be significantly more than $30M, the league might call in its loans to the Kings (believed to be $100M or more), and to top it all off, the league could just outright refuse the move.

Honestly, the whole thing smells like the Kings are trying to set up an anti-trust lawsuit using Virginia Beach as their saps. Virginia Beach promises them a cheap ($300M) arena at no cost to them (even giving them $80M to come). But the Kings don't want to go to Virginia Beach - it's not even as good of a market as Sacramento. The Kings wait for the league to refuse, sue for anti-trust hoping to win, and then if they win, use their newfound powers of self-relocation to go to Anaheim. But never bet against David Stern in court. Even should the league lose in anti-trust court, that bait-and-switch would go over really well with them, right? I'd see the NBA, as an anti-trust-defeated loose association of 30 teams quickly become an anti-trust-defeated loose association of 29 teams, each of which refuses to do business with the Anaheim Retards on the basis that they simply don't want to. Oops, Maloofs.

There's just no winning move for the Maloofs here. Even things that look like a win end up being losses.

In the end, it'd be nice to somehow let the City Council of Virginia Beach know that they're being played for fools here. The old "you knew I was a snake when you picked me up" adage comes to mind. Look at it, Council. Watch what the snakes do. Think about their next moves. Know that their desires lie in a big-revenue market, not in another small city. At best you're wasting your time, and at worst you're giving the snakes ammunition in their fight against somebody else.

 

[Section 101]

Seems to me this is all a play to get some city to agree to giving the Maloofs around $80 mil which is close to the money owed on city bonds. They are trying to force the city to take on the city bond debt for them to stay.

 

[JB_kings]

We kept hearing about the big money that Comcast and Spectacor was bringing to this deal. And after all that it was only 35 million. Live Nation is bringing nothing. It's all public based funding and the numbers they are throwing around are significantly lower then reality.

I don't think VB will ever get any kind of vote passed to fund this deal.

 

[Siranthony]

If VB is really willing to do anything to get the Kings then they can have them. I've had it with all the drama and BS from this ownership. If the Maloofs are really looking at VB then it should be clear they never had any intentions of staying in Sacramento. They say one thing to the comunity here while they double deal in secret behind the scenes. If that is true then it is nothing they haven't been doing for years. Why would anyone want to deal with the Maloofs? Selling your soul doesn't come cheap.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Seems to me this is all a play to get some city to agree to giving the Maloofs around $80 mil which is close to the money owed on city bonds. They are trying to force the city to take on the city bond debt for them to stay.

Interesting convergence of the numbers. Sorry, maloofs, not gonna get it.

(I know I'm a bad person for this, but do you realize how much glee I will get out of it if the Brothers Idjit are forced to sell their NBA team, the one asset they treasure most in this world? So much glee It would be like Christmas every day for a year. Maybe two.)

 

[Jose]

Don't support the maloofs, let them leave even broker and humiliated.

In the end, they're leaving us anyway so don't let them leave with your money in their pocket.

This is what I've been saying all along. They want to leave. Period. The only way this ends well is if they sell to a buyer who wants to stay here. Every dollar we give them buys them time to get other deals done. Starve them out and they'll have to sell. Continue making their intentionally cheap and horrible product profitable and they'll keep stringing us along.

We have the league's support at the moment. We may not have it in a few years. The time to force their hand is now.

I will support Sacramento, Crown Downtown, and any efforts to build an arena and keep the Kings here under new ownership. I will NOT support the Maloofs. Not a penny.

 

[Mike0476]

This is what I've been saying all along. They want to leave. Period. The only way this ends well is if they sell to a buyer who wants to stay here. Every dollar we give them buys them time to get other deals done. Starve them out and they'll have to sell. Continue making their intentionally cheap and horrible product profitable and they'll keep stringing us along.

We have the league's support at the moment. We may not have it in a few years. The time to force their hand is now.

I will support Sacramento, Crown Downtown, and any efforts to build an arena and keep the Kings here under new ownership. I will NOT support the Maloofs. Not a penny.

Would you and others help support Crown Downtown with donations? We could use all the help we can get.

 

[Jose]

Would you and others help support Crown Downtown with donations? We could use all the help we can get.

It's a fine line for me. I will always support Crown Downtown's mission:

"To show our continued support for the construction of a downtown entertainment and sports complex and the benefits it would bring to the city and region of Sacramento. To maintain public awareness of the entertainment and sports complex efforts through education, advocacy and the opportunity for the community, the business leaders and our local officials to bring their thoughts on the project to a wide audience."

I will lend my voice, signature, whatever in support to that mission and its vision as stated in Crown Downtown's website.

However, I think some of the activities/events that Crown Downtown sponsors (attending games, holding events at Sleep Train Arena, etc.) result in money going to the Maloofs. That, or anything else that translates directly or indirectly into money for the Maloofs, is something I will not support.

 

[funkykingston]

Here's the question I can't answer:

Let's say that for the sake of argument that this proposed Virginia Beach scenario works out exactly as laid out above. The Maloofs don't pay a single dime and get a new arena while moving to a market slightly smaller than Sacramento. What exactly changes for the franchise or the Maloofs?

For the Maloofs, their asset gains little value in the move (relative to moving to a bigger, flashier market such as Vegas or Anaheim), they'll still be saddled with debt AND have paid a relocation fee. Not to mention they'd either have to take their lumps playing for a couple years in an empty Sleeptrain Arena while the Virgina Beach arena is built or play in an undersized, makeshift arena in VA Beach for at least two seasons. So other than getting out of Sacramento (which they now seem desperate to do) what exactly does this deal get the Maloofs?

As for the franchise, if the Maloofs aren't gaining anything in the move, then why would the team? Virginia Beach, Comcast and the State of Virginia (not to mention anyone that would pay to support the team) would all be paying a premium for the same pathetic, losing ways we've been accustomed to. I have to believe the Maloofs would continue operating the team on a shoestring budget to maximize revenue as if owning a team were a true business rather than a hobby of the uber wealthy and remaining completely non-competitive in the NBA. I'm sure that in their eternal optimism they think they can be Oklahoma City but they won't. In fact, the only similarity in the two situations will be ripping a team away from a loyal fan base in a disgraceful manner.

So maybe I just don't get it and someone can explain it to me. How does moving to Virginia Beach change anything?

 

[Jose]

Here's the question I can't answer:

Let's say that for the sake of argument that this proposed Virginia Beach scenario works out exactly as laid out above. The Maloofs don't pay a single dime and get a new arena while moving to a market slightly smaller than Sacramento. What exactly changes for the franchise or the Maloofs?

For the Maloofs, their asset gains little value in the move (relative to moving to a bigger, flashier market such as Vegas or Anaheim), they'll still be saddled with debt AND have paid a relocation fee. Not to mention they'd either have to take their lumps playing for a couple years in an empty Sleeptrain Arena while the Virgina Beach arena is built or play in an undersized, makeshift arena in VA Beach for at least two seasons. So other than getting out of Sacramento (which they now seem desperate to do) what exactly does this deal get the Maloofs?

As for the franchise, if the Maloofs aren't gaining anything in the move, then why would the team? Virginia Beach, Comcast and the State of Virginia (not to mention anyone that would pay to support the team) would all be paying a premium for the same pathetic, losing ways we've been accustomed to. I have to believe the Maloofs would continue operating the team on a shoestring budget to maximize revenue as if owning a team were a true business rather than a hobby of the uber wealthy and remaining completely non-competitive in the NBA. I'm sure that in their eternal optimism they think they can be Oklahoma City but they won't. In fact, the only similarity in the two situations will be ripping a team away from a loyal fan base in a disgraceful manner.

So maybe I just don't get it and someone can explain it to me. How does moving to Virginia Beach change anything?

Money, if the scenario goes thru. The Maloofs:

- Get to erase their debt to the city of Sac (thanks to the 80M given to them by VB)
- Play on a brand new arena, with more luxury, corporate suites and a new, energized fan base. And it doesn't cost them a penny.
- Presumably get a great deal on their lease of the new arena. Probably with all the perks/ridiculous demands that they tried to impose on the Sac deal.
- Still have STA to sell or continue to lease. Or maybe dump it on the city as partial payment to the loan, saving some cash.
- Get a new, presumably better TV contract?
- Get to do all the above with a cost-neutral move, while still running a low cost, low quality product that remains profitable.

Leverage, if it doesn't go thru:

- Continue to scare the people of Sacramento into giving them money for fear that they may leave.
- Continue to buy time thanks to the above, while they wait for a deal of their liking.
- Continue to put pressure on the city to come up with a no-cost arena deal for them (hey, VB can do it!).
- Raise the sale value of the team (higher demand, higher cost).
- Put pressure on other legitimately interested buyers to come up with a better deal.
- Maybe try to weasel their way out of some debt ("hey, we could stay but we need the city's help with the loan, or some other monetary help"). They've done it before.

There's a lot for them to gain by "exploring" this. Nothing to loose. As long as this city is still held hostage and people continue to make their crappy product profitable, there's no reason for them to not continue this behavior.

 

[Section 101]

Money, if the scenario goes thru. The Maloofs:

- Get to erase their debt to the city of Sac (thanks to the 80M given to them by VB)
- Play on a brand new arena, with more luxury, corporate suites and a new, energized fan base. And it doesn't cost them a penny.
- Presumably get a great deal on their lease of the new arena. Probably with all the perks/ridiculous demands that they tried to impose on the Sac deal.
- Still have STA to sell or continue to lease. Or maybe dump it on the city as partial payment to the loan, saving some cash.
- Get a new, presumably better TV contract?
- Get to do all the above with a cost-neutral move, while still running a low cost, low quality product that remains profitable.

Leverage, if it doesn't go thru:

- Continue to scare the people of Sacramento into giving them money for fear that they may leave.
- Continue to buy time thanks to the above, while they wait for a deal of their liking.
- Continue to put pressure on the city to come up with a no-cost arena deal for them (hey, VB can do it!).
- Raise the sale value of the team (higher demand, higher cost).
- Put pressure on other legitimately interested buyers to come up with a better deal.
- Maybe try to weasel their way out of some debt ("hey, we could stay but we need the city's help with the loan, or some other monetary help"). They've done it before.

There's a lot for them to gain by "exploring" this. Nothing to loose. As long as this city is still held hostage and people continue to make their crappy product profitable, there's no reason for them to not continue this behavior.

It's a smaller corporate base and the majority of people are military family's that travel a lot. It's a smaller TV market so the TV contract would be smaller.

Lets say the league doesn't let them move divisions too. They could be doing back to backs from east coast to west coast weekly. Moving east doesn't mean they get to switch divisions.

 

[JB_kings]

Here's the question I can't answer:

Let's say that for the sake of argument that this proposed Virginia Beach scenario works out exactly as laid out above. The Maloofs don't pay a single dime and get a new arena while moving to a market slightly smaller than Sacramento. What exactly changes for the franchise or the Maloofs?

For the Maloofs, their asset gains little value in the move (relative to moving to a bigger, flashier market such as Vegas or Anaheim), they'll still be saddled with debt AND have paid a relocation fee. Not to mention they'd either have to take their lumps playing for a couple years in an empty Sleeptrain Arena while the Virgina Beach arena is built or play in an undersized, makeshift arena in VA Beach for at least two seasons. So other than getting out of Sacramento (which they now seem desperate to do) what exactly does this deal get the Maloofs?

As for the franchise, if the Maloofs aren't gaining anything in the move, then why would the team? Virginia Beach, Comcast and the State of Virginia (not to mention anyone that would pay to support the team) would all be paying a premium for the same pathetic, losing ways we've been accustomed to. I have to believe the Maloofs would continue operating the team on a shoestring budget to maximize revenue as if owning a team were a true business rather than a hobby of the uber wealthy and remaining completely non-competitive in the NBA. I'm sure that in their eternal optimism they think they can be Oklahoma City but they won't. In fact, the only similarity in the two situations will be ripping a team away from a loyal fan base in a disgraceful manner.

So maybe I just don't get it and someone can explain it to me. How does moving to Virginia Beach change anything?

80 million goes to the Maloofs to entice them to move. They think they can get away with a 30 million relocation fee. I highly doubt that it will be that low, but it's a number that OKC paid.

Then they have to settle the Arco/PBP/ST Arena situation. If the bonds were to be paid off today, it would exceed that whole 80 million. However I doubt that loan will be directly paid off. I think they know they can settle with the city on transferring the property, building and loan and laying out some cash. The city will make a big noise, but I think they really want the arena so that KJ can pursue his contingency plans to get another team to replace the Kings. How much cash is the question.

I thought I read in one of the VB articles that Comcast/Spectacor would be paying the lease. So free rent in a new arena would be a big bonus.

Just in general they probably think they can reduce a lot of debt and increase their revenue if they get a windfall deal.

That said, we all know George and how he operates. I am confident that VB will not be able to get an agreement based upon demands that will most certainly not be agreeable. Things like out clauses on the lease that were just not acceptable in Sacramento - early out and outs for new buyers, etc. Revenue streams that will make it impossible to pay back any public bonds required for the project. There are a number of things not being brought out in these articles that will certainly drive up the price.

See George knows he doesn't have to move. So he can just ask for any insane thing he wants and it's up to VB to agree or not. And if VB does meet all his demands, then they both deserve each other.

 

[Mike0476]

It's a fine line for me. I will always support Crown Downtown's mission:

"To show our continued support for the construction of a downtown entertainment and sports complex and the benefits it would bring to the city and region of Sacramento. To maintain public awareness of the entertainment and sports complex efforts through education, advocacy and the opportunity for the community, the business leaders and our local officials to bring their thoughts on the project to a wide audience."

I will lend my voice, signature, whatever in support to that mission and its vision as stated in Crown Downtown's website.

However, I think some of the activities/events that Crown Downtown sponsors (attending games, holding events at Sleep Train Arena, etc.) result in money going to the Maloofs. That, or anything else that translates directly or indirectly into money for the Maloofs, is something I will not support.

I completely understand how you feel.

We are taking the high road. Going with the opposite doesn't help our cause and is simply counterproductive.

The two of us who co-founded #FANS and now Crown Downtown are full season ticket holders. We renewed without questions or reservations even after the arena deal was called off.

I support the Kings because the players and staff need our support. I don't want the staff from the security to ticket takers, etc. to become collateral damage. Those good people, who are like family to me, will be the first to feel the pain. Not the ownership. They will feel it last.

But when I support the Kings, I also support Sacramento. When I support another event like a concert or WWE or Disney on Ice that means I also support Sacramento. When I support a downtown business like Barwest or Republic that means I also support Sacramento.

Any donations we would receive would help pay for equipment that we use to film our videos (and trust me when I say this we have some others already filmed and just waiting to release them as time goes on), T-shirts, legal fees, etc.

No donations would pay for any Kings games or events at Sleep Train Arena. However, if anyone wants to donate their tickets we would love to give them away via our social media sites.

Hopefully that clarifies that.

 

[funkykingston]

Ah, I missed the bit about the deal including $80 million to "help the team move".

If in this economy a small city like Virginia Beach can muster up $195 million while also convincing the state to kick in $150 million all so they can transplant a team run by owners who've shown unequivocally that they don't know how to run a franchise AND are more than willing to betray a city and it's fans then I don't know what to say. The notion that they'd also give them $80 million dollars outright and give them sweetheart lease terms makes it all the more flabbergasting. If the Maloofs can really swing that deal then more power to them and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Ryan]

Fourth, there's not really an arena where they can play right now. So for the three years it would take to build a new arena the Virginia Beach Traitors would be forced to either 1) play in a college arena that seats about 11K or 2) stay in Sacramento where they'd get no support at all. Either way, that's another huge financial hit for owners who have no other source of actual income and are putting a crappy product on the floor to begin with.

I've heard they would play at Old Dominion University, seating less than 10,000. Or they could play outside at Foreman Field!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I've heard they would play at Old Dominion University, seating less than 10,000. Or they could play outside at Foreman Field!

Why wouldn't they play at the Scope or the Coliseum? If they were going to play at an undersized venue, those are rather better options.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I've heard they would play at Old Dominion University, seating less than 10,000. Or they could play outside at Foreman Field!

I forgot how small it was and estimated too high - apparently it's 8600 seats.

Yeah, that's an NBA-quality arena, Maloofs. Right.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Hampton Roads has never had a major-league pro sports team in any sport, Capt. Unless you want to count that "time-share" we had with the Squires. Mind explaining why you'd expect an NBA-quality arena to already be here?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Why wouldn't they play at the Scope or the Coliseum? If they were going to play at an undersized venue, those are rather better options.

That would get them to either 10,250 or 9,750 - in arenas completed in the early '70s. They're marginally bigger but still far undersized for an NBA arena. I don't know anything about these buildings. Are they actually decent places or are they as bad/worse than Sleep Train?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Hampton Roads has never had a major-league pro sports team in any sport, Capt. Unless you want to count that "time-share" we had with the Squires. Mind explaining why you'd expect an NBA-quality arena to already be here?

Never said there would be. But I think you have to take into account that for the three years or so that the new arena would be under construction, the team would have to play somewhere. It would be unlikely to be Sacramento. Are the Maloofs really planning to play in an arena seating between 8,600-10,250 for three years?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I tend to think that they're both fine, but I've never been to a sporting event in either of them. I have been to wrestling shows at both venues, and found the facilities to be adequate.

Can't assess relative to Sleep Train, though: I've seen the Kings live in a little less than half the arenas in the league (including one which no longer hosts an NBA team), but that isn't one of them.

 

[JB_kings]

Very small by college standards. Although it does have suites.

 

[Jose]

According to the Daily Press, the Hampton Coliseum can hold up to 13,500 seats. The Kings are currently LAST in attendance in the NBA, with a reported 12,574 seats on average for home games (http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance). It's only going to get worse. I think they can make-do for a couple of years.

 

[JB_kings]

According to the Daily Press, the Hampton Coliseum can hold up to 13,500 seats. The Kings are currently LAST in attendance in the NBA, with a reported 12,574 seats on average for home games (http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance). It's only going to get worse. I think they can make-do for a couple of years.

13,800 for concerts. It's 9,777 for basketball. Only marginally bigger than the Constant Center and the suites and location are better.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

i dont see it happening. Maloofs would have to pay off their debt here and then no to mention all the relocation fees. oh and the fact that the league owners have to vote on it

 

[Warhawk]

Again, the Maloofs are a league problem, not a Sacramento problem. You can put MSE in any of the "available" locations and they still have the same issues with the team ownership. They are poor by NBA standards and have been lousy owners for the past half-decade or so.

 

[VF21]

I'm really beyond caring about anything that comes out of Virginia Beach and I'm totally disgusted that at least one Sacramento TV station considered this "breaking news" and actually broke into General Hospital to air a tease. If you read the articles there is absolutely NOTHING new in conjunction with the Kings. There's more speculation and that's about it.

I'm going to put my efforts in supporting the KINGS and CrownDowntown. Everybody else can take a flying leap.