Train Wreck in Phoenix
- Thread starter HndsmCelt
- Start date
creAtivetfh
Starter
it is NEVER good to see the Lakers win. Period
Gargamel
Starter
Is anoyone else watching the Lakers demolish the Suns? Sorta takes the sting out of tonights loss to the Spurs... at least we looked better than the Suns!
Kobe's leadership. Clears throat.
D'Antoni got all miffed at Jackson calling a late timeout stuck to the end of his own TO and he was hissing and spitting at LA's bench from midcourt. Phil yelled, "WTF is wrong with you? Go sit down!" at him. The only moment of levity in the game.
Geez...I know it's early, but the Suns showed their gimmick side in a big way. That is one porous defense when they're not giving 110%.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
I don't know if the Suns flew out of Seattle late last night or early this morning, but that's a LONG flight back home. Back-to-back games in the NBA are killer, even for good teams. At least the Kings have about a 30 minute flight tonight from SA to Dallas to get ready for their back-to-back.
hoopsfan
Starter
Gargamel
Starter
I saw that, Gargy...I had a good laugh with my dad over that.
That makes 1 out of the maybe 3 laffs we'll enjoy all year, hoops. Let's cherish it.
hoopsfan
Starter
Kingzrool
Starter
I heard they got back at three in the morning. No excuse, but definately a factor.
And call me bitter, but I am not thinking the time of the Kings flight will have any effect at all on who wins the game.
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RKid
Bench
We played one of the best games since shaq was ran out of town and Im really up on our young guys. are we going to win a title or contend? No. But I feel we will be better than last year, especially after we dump Bryant and hopefully get some nice pieces for him.
SpursIndonesia
G-League
It seems that Grant Hill isn't really a good fit for them. Not quick enough offensively and defensively, and incapable of hitting 3 pts shot accurately & consistently. His positives like experience, half court game savvy, were wasted in the herky jerky Suns game.
Dave McNulla
Bench
i didn't think he was that great of a pick up for a team that keeps the rotation to seven players all season long.
Gargamel
Starter
Not enough to account for a 33 pt hole in their home opener to a team they beat consistently. They looked like the 93 Mavs against the 93 Cavs.
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AriesMar27
Guest
the same thing happened last year... this isnt a big deal, last year they did it without kobe in their season opener... this means absolutely nothing...
DocHolliday
Starter
There are only 2 single pieces that could replace Kobe. Their names are Dwayne Wade, and Lebron James. YOu're not getting either of them. This means you'll get some good or decent players in a trade. It will be a handful of them. You can't replace one of the best players in the game.
Saying the Lakers will be BETTER without Kobe is laughable. I'm not a Lakers fan, but Kobe is one of the best if not THE best talent overall in the game.
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AriesMar27
Guest
honestly any elite sg can lead this lakers team to a 40+ win season and 1st round loss... be it wade, lebron, tmac, redd, allen... so on and so forth... the team just isnt that good... how much better would the kings be with chris paul or nash instead of bibby? thomas, miller, moore and reef would still suck and nash plays worse defense than bibby... sucky teams suck for a reason...
Gargamel
Starter
I watched the game, Aries. They looked as bad as I've ever seen them. Totally ineffectual from top to bottom. They didn't look that great at Seattle either. No defense, too many turnovers, too many trey attempts, too little to pack in the lane. It may not mean anything because it's the Lakers, but I assure you it'll mean a lot when they play SA, if they don't shore those areas up.
Gargamel
Starter
It depends on if you're talking about the Dr. Jekyll Kobe who plays a patient mix of pass/score, or the Mr. Hyde version that takes on an obvious FU posture towards his teammates if they are off. Houston was Mr. Hyde, Phx was Dr. Jekyll. Unfortunately for LA, he switches back and forth every other game now.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Thanks you!!
6th
Homer Fan Since 1985
RKid
Bench
I dont want to replace Kobe, I dont want the Lakers to get another Kobe. Kobes do not win Championships! Jordans, Shaqs, Magics, Birds, Duncans win Championships. Why? Because they are team players that make those around them better.
When Kobe plays like Kobe, taking 30 shots scoring 81 points, having 1 assist, that doesnt help the lakers that hurts the lakers. Our young guys need touches and they need to be rewarded with the ball when they make a cut towards the basket or get open for a three.
When Kobe plays like Jordan, 20+ points 5+ assists, than the lakers are a hell of a lot better basketball team With kobe in there. Thats the kobe that is the best player in Basketball, yesterdays Kobe. But we only get that Kobe here and there, not all the time.
So yes the lakers would be better trading Kobe and bringing guys who would play fundamental basketball and spread the ball, that would add depth to the squad and play like yesterdays lakers as a team.
supamari0
Bench
I hate playing Kobe defender here but then I read this.
Look, who does he have. Sto the comparisons with the other greats in the NBA. They actually had competent teammates. Right now he has a bunch of bozos to tag along. Is it really worth anyone's time giving Kwame Brown the ball. You think Luke Walton is going to do anything special? How about Brian Cook or Mo Evans. They're all mediocre ball players who can't do much. I'd want Kobe to shoot 60 times a game if he keeps scoring at a decent clip. That team flat out sucks and if Jordan were stuck with that, I guarantee you that they're not going anywhere either.
The Lakers aren't going anywhere as it stands now. If Jordan could make something of this team then he'd somehow do something that God himself couldn't do.
There are guys like Allen Iverson who are selfish, shoot at a bad clip, and isn't good for teammates. But Kobe is >>>>> Allen Iverson. Kobe is what T-Mac was in Orlando. A guy stuck with garbage and forced to score a lot. Guess what happened when T-Mac got teammates. He averaged 6+ assists per game and went from selfish superstar to point forward including getting comparisons to magic johnson. (although those comparisons aren't very good IMO, they're different players) Put Kobe in a different environment with a team worth a damn and he'll probably play within the offense. And its funny that this ballhog nonsense comes up now. It certainly wasn't an issue when they were winning championships. There was always an ego problem with Shaq and Kobe but on the court, there was never a problem there.
Gargamel
Starter
What he does have is made even less effective when he goes on 50 pt scoring streaks, Phillip D. Jackson has caved into Kobe Bean Bryant's scoring lust. It doesn't help that he can hit 50 and 60 like it was nothing.
My problem w/ the teammates theory (when I hear it from fellow fans) is that this isn't 2004/05 anymore. It may have been a lot more true back then than it is now, when he was sharing the backcourt with Kenneth Lavon Atkins and William Parker ("Smush" in the way that a pile of unnoticed dog poo smushes between your toes when you walk out to get the morning paper). Ronny Turiaf has looked a tad more lively than Brian Wade Grant and a tad more athletic than Brian Joshua Cook. His teammates are only as bad as Kobe Bean Bryant makes them.
(I disagree that ballhogging wasn't a problem when Shaquille Rashaun O'Neal was there. It caused a couple of big stinks, as you recall...)
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Gargamel
Starter
I agree that Kobe has to have boundaries put around his game again like Phillip used to have in place. Phillip makes concessions once there's only 1 superstar on the team...and he had to put his eggs into Kobe's basket to regain his trust (after the book). He doesn't want to yell at him to "stay in the offense" anymore.
I disagree that he needs to be traded because of the teammates aspect tho. If he needs to be traded, it'll be because of some "last straw" type of stunt. I hope that he figures out from the Suns win that his teammates can rise to a higher level if used properly and trusted. When he got his sprained ankle in 2001, he noted how watching his teammates win games w/o him made him realize that the "turn my game up..." mentality he had earlier that year wasn't getting it done. He played flawlessly after that. However, I just don't know. He hugged Ric Bucher after the Suns win. He's still pushing buttons and I don't think anything will change his mind about leaving at this point.
I respectfully disagree about "Kobe's don't win titles". He's proven that he can get along when a title is on the line, at least before he became Bizarro Bean (Eagle to the present). He showed that he plays his most complete game when he has good teammates. Conversely, he has also shown that he can score 81 when he has young teammates that he doesn't trust. I think he knows that being a veteran leader wasn't all that it was cracked up to be, and I suspect that he is using the "I was lied to" angle just to find his way to a ready-made team (his 3 choices make that pretty obvious).
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AriesMar27
Guest
its true that kobe's dont win championships though... shaq would have won those rings playing with tmac, carter or allen without any problems...
Gargamel
Starter
I've heard that theory a time or two as well. I don't buy it. Can't be proven anyway. Tmac is probably a hundred miles closer to that hypothetical feat than the other two imo. For the first time in his life, he could announce his team would beat the other and actually come out right.
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AriesMar27
Guest
i dont know if they would actually win... the team still isnt very good... they are just better off than most bad teams because they have someone who can guard players like duncan and the other bigs in the west...
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