Trade Bagley for Tatum?

[twslam07]

Trade Bagley for Tatum. Start Tatum/Bjelica/Holmes in the front court

What say you @CelticsFan ?!

 

[CelticsFan]

Trade Bagley for Tatum. Start Tatum/Bjelica/Holmes in the front court

What say you @CelticsFan ?!

I would say it's not a trade Celtics would be interested in. Celtics are very high on Tatum

 

[twslam07]

I would say it's not a trade Celtics would be interested in. Celtics are very high on Tatum

I mean I’d rather have Tatum over Bagley as well but I would think Bagley’s extra year on his rookie contract could be very attractive to Boston in regards to giving Boston the opportunity to add another max contract in the 2021 offseason.

They’d have ~$25 mil in cap space That offseason if they made the deal, but if they moved off of Smart, they’d have ~$40 mil in cap space that offseason while still having the following players under contract:

Walker / Edwards
Brown / Langford

Bagley / G. Williams
R. Williams

Giannis, Leonard, George, or LeBron will all be FAs that year.

Sac would probably have to add value at the end of the day something like Bagley + 2020 1st to give Boston two good young assets on rookie deals when the 2021 offseason hits.

 

[Hoovtrain]

crap might as well throw in 2 more 1sts and Fox while you are at it

 

[dvirc218]

let's trade bagley to the nets for kyrie & kd & their future draft picks.

 

[kb02]

No.

But I would trade Buddy for Gordon Hayward. Been watching the Celtics a lot this year and prior to his recent hand injury, Hayward was playing like he did during his Utah years. Think Boston would have to think hard about it.

Celtics, so far, look like the best team in the league. Kemba is a better fit for them than Kyrie. Less dancing, more direct, better defender. They have three legit scorers, who can get a bucket for you at any time--Kemba, Hayward, and Tatum. Their bigs look a little shaky though.

 

[CelticsFan]

No.

But I would trade Buddy for Gordon Hayward. Been watching the Celtics a lot this year and prior to his recent hand injury, Hayward was playing like he did during his Utah years. Think Boston would have to think hard about it.

Celtics, so far, look like the best team in the league. Kemba is a better fit for them than Kyrie. Less dancing, more direct, better defender. They have three legit scorers, who can get a bucket for you at any time--Kemba, Hayward, and Tatum. Their bigs look a little shaky though.

Gordon had been great for the Celtics up until the injury. Gordon only has a player option which I'm sure he's going to pick up next year at $34mil. Just my opinion but I think the Celtics wouldn't want to take on the long term deal of Buddy. Don't kill me for this but I think by the end of the contract Buddy will be an overpay. I agree with you Celtics bigs look shaky. I think they will look to get a big man by the deadline but don't expect any major moves.

 

[kb02]

Gordon had been great for the Celtics up until the injury. Gordon only has a player option which I'm sure he's going to pick up next year at $34mil. Just my opinion but I think the Celtics wouldn't want to take on the long term deal of Buddy. Don't kill me for this but I think by the end of the contract Buddy will be an overpay. I agree with you Celtics bigs look shaky. I think they will look to get a big man by the deadline but don't expect any major moves.

I'm not that far off from you with Buddy. He has incredibly low hoops IQ. The only thing that has me from the over pay camp is his shooting. Elite shooting tends to age well in the league. So we'll see.

I doubt Hayward or Stevens would accept a trade to any team, for the record.

As for bigs, how about Dewayne Dedmon for a second round pick? He can stretch the floor, which is something that none of your bigs can do at the moment.

 

[CelticsFan]

I'm not that far off from you with Buddy. He has incredibly low hoops IQ. The only thing that has me from the over pay camp is his shooting. Elite shooting tends to age well in the league. So we'll see.

I doubt Hayward or Stevens would accept a trade to any team, for the record.

As for bigs, how about Dewayne Dedmon for a second round pick? He can stretch the floor, which is something that none of your bigs can do at the moment.

Too much money for Dedmon. Right now you could argue that their center Daniel Theis gives you more than Dedmon and he only gets paid $5 million per season. Either way they're both role playing bigs who give you about the same. I think they will be looking for a bigger upgrade than that.

 

[KingsSelecao]

Trade Bagley for Tatum. Start Tatum/Bjelica/Holmes in the front court

What say you @CelticsFan ?!

Trade Bagley for Tatum. Start Tatum/Bjelica/Holmes in the front court

What say you @CelticsFan ?!

I love Tatum. I would do it in a heartbeat. But, Not sure Boston would bite, even with a first round pick.
Bagley is showing a tendency to be injury prone and they're questions about this BBIQ and His apparent lack of offseason conditioning. A Froncourt Bjelica/Holmes is actually very average and against playoff type teams, that don't do much. I would say combined they would rank in the Bottom 10 of frontcourts in the NBA.

Lets look at the numbers against good and solid playoff team/early contenders:

Bjelica:

Toronto 5 pts 2-7
Utah 11 pts 4-8
Denver 12 pts 4-11
Utah 7 pts 3-5
PhX 5 pts 2-6

Averages Less that 10 pts a game against teams that are over .500

Holmes:

Toronto: 8 pts 8 rebounds 31 minutes
Utah: 8 Pts 2 rebounds in 20 minutes
Denver: 24 pts 13 rebounds in 30 min
Utah: 6 pts 1 Rebounds in 15 min
Phoenix 1 pt 5 Rebounds in 17 min


Averages 9pts and 6 boards per game


That is not a great starting frontcourt: If you're getting 18 pts a game from your 2 front court players, you're not beating quality Playoff teams very often. If those are you 2 bench guys. Their awesome.

Kings are 4-6

But, Only 1 Quality win. Against the Jazz.

The 3 teams who I thought for sure would be worse than Sac are all significantly better than Sac:

Dallas: Doncic is leading a team of second rate role players. Porzingas still has not got his legs back.
Minnesota: Wiggins is an early candidate for both MIP and MVP. Now, He has shocked the world. Saunders also is a coach of year candidate.
Phoenix: Williams also COY. The acquistions of Baynes, Rubio have been huge. Booker is playing hard and smart for the first time in his young career.

 

[Kangztillidie]

I love Tatum. I would do it in a heartbeat. But, Not sure Boston would bite, even with a first round pick.
Bagley is showing a tendency to be injury prone and they're questions about this BBIQ and His apparent lack of offseason conditioning. A Froncourt Bjelica/Holmes is actually very average and against playoff type teams, that don't do much. I would say combined they would rank in the Bottom 10 of frontcourts in the NBA.

Lets look at the numbers against good and solid playoff team/early contenders:

Bjelica:

Toronto 5 pts 2-7
Utah 11 pts 4-8
Denver 12 pts 4-11
Utah 7 pts 3-5
PhX 5 pts 2-6

Averages Less that 10 pts a game against teams that are over .500

Holmes:

Toronto: 8 pts 8 rebounds 31 minutes
Utah: 8 Pts 2 rebounds in 20 minutes
Denver: 24 pts 13 rebounds in 30 min
Utah: 6 pts 1 Rebounds in 15 min
Phoenix 1 pt 5 Rebounds in 17 min


Averages 9pts and 6 boards per game


That is not a great starting frontcourt: If you're getting 18 pts a game from your 2 front court players, you're not beating quality Playoff teams very often. If those are you 2 bench guys. Their awesome.

Kings are 4-6

But, Only 1 Quality win. Against the Jazz.

The 3 teams who I thought for sure would be worse than Sac are all significantly better than Sac:

Dallas: Doncic is leading a team of second rate role players. Porzingas still has not got his legs back.
Minnesota: Wiggins is an early candidate for both MIP and MVP. Now, He has shocked the world. Saunders also is a coach of year candidate.
Phoenix: Williams also COY. The acquistions of Baynes, Rubio have been huge. Booker is playing hard and smart for the first time in his young career.

Lol. Coach if the year barely 10 games in to an 82 game season.

 

[twslam07]

I love Tatum. I would do it in a heartbeat. But, Not sure Boston would bite, even with a first round pick.

I agree.

Bagley is showing a tendency to be injury prone and they're questions about this BBIQ and His apparent lack of offseason conditioning.

Do you have a link that supports this claim?

A Froncourt Bjelica/Holmes is actually very average and against playoff type teams, that don't do much. I would say combined they would rank in the Bottom 10 of frontcourts in the NBA.

So? Who cares if they are average players/adequate starters? How does the rest of the team look? Is the rest of the team average? Fox, Hield, Bogdanovic, Barnes, & Tatum. They may be average in terms of how that young group performs on the floor today, but as Fox & Tatum develop, the idea would be that a Fox, Hield, Bogdanovic, Barnes, & Tatum group would be well above average compared to what other teams can throw out there on the perimeter.

Lets look at the numbers against good and solid playoff team/early contenders:

I get what you're trying to do, but you're essentially cherrypicking games from an already very small sample size and making the sample size even smaller.

Bjelica:

Toronto 5 pts 2-7
Utah 11 pts 4-8
Denver 12 pts 4-11
Utah 7 pts 3-5
PhX 5 pts 2-6

Averages Less that 10 pts a game against teams that are over .500

Holmes:

Toronto: 8 pts 8 rebounds 31 minutes
Utah: 8 Pts 2 rebounds in 20 minutes
Denver: 24 pts 13 rebounds in 30 min
Utah: 6 pts 1 Rebounds in 15 min
Phoenix 1 pt 5 Rebounds in 17 min


Averages 9pts and 6 boards per game


That is not a great starting frontcourt: If you're getting 18 pts a game from your 2 front court players, you're not beating quality Playoff teams very often. If those are you 2 bench guys. Their awesome.

Kings are 4-6

But, Only 1 Quality win. Against the Jazz.

First of all, I don't understand why you're only taking into account points and rebounds like those are the only things that matter in a basketball game.

Secondly, the frontcourt is a SF, PF, & C. You are only considering the PF & C for some odd reason.

Thirdly, you forgot to include how many minutes those guys played to combine for 18 pts per game. If they played 10 mins, that's very good. if they played 48 minutes, that's definitely on the lower side. Context matters.

Per 36 minutes, in those games you mentioned, they averaged a combined 25.8 PPG. If you look at the entire season, they average a combined 29.0 PPG per 36 minutes. Let's look at other teams who have froncourts who score at a similar rate:



Look at that! Many cases where teams are above .500 who have PFs/Cs who score at a similar rate as the Kings.

It's not about how good the PF & C are. It's about how good the team is. Teams come in all shapes and sizes.

It's like saying you can't win with Joel Anthony as your starting C. Well actually you can when you have LeBron, Wade, & Bosh starting alongside of him.

The 3 teams who I thought for sure would be worse than Sac are all significantly better than Sac:

Dallas: Doncic is leading a team of second rate role players. Porzingas still has not got his legs back.
Minnesota: Wiggins is an early candidate for both MIP and MVP. Now, He has shocked the world. Saunders also is a coach of year candidate.
Phoenix: Williams also COY. The acquistions of Baynes, Rubio have been huge. Booker is playing hard and smart for the first time in his young career.

Wiggins is a candidate for MVP? He's not even the MVP of his own team...

 

[kingsfan1984]

I like Tatum but don't find him as much more than a fringe All star SF. Id rather just stick with Bagley and see how he develops. The hope is still there, if he can stay on the court, that he can be a Giannis type

 

[twslam07]

I like Tatum but don't find him as much more than a fringe All star SF. Id rather just stick with Bagley and see how he develops. The hope is still there, if he can stay on the court, that he can be a Giannis type

His impact stats have been stellar for someone his age. I think Tatum's defense gets overlooked knowing what he can do offensively. Bagley on the other hand has ways to go before he starts showing a positive impact on the floor. Not to say he can't get there but he's got ways to go.

 

[KingsSelecao]

I like Tatum but don't find him as much more than a fringe All star SF. Id rather just stick with Bagley and see how he develops. The hope is still there, if he can stay on the court, that he can be a Giannis type

Giannis type. Sorry, don’t see it. Bagley May become a nice player. Maybe, a Chris Bosh ceiling.
A third option on a playoff team.
But. A Top 5 player in the NBA?! That’s what Giannis is.
Doesn’t have near the imposing muscular build, Bbiq, in his game. Giannis is physically dominating and intimidating in his first year.
I watched the first game against the Suns. It looked as if Bagley hadn’t seen the inside of a gym all summer.
That tells me one thing. The guy does not put the game first.

Bagley has great energy on the floor and says all the right things.
That’s great. Let’s see if he really wants to become great

 

[jellyfish]

I like Tatum but don't find him as much more than a fringe All star SF. Id rather just stick with Bagley and see how he develops. The hope is still there, if he can stay on the court, that he can be a Giannis type

He''s nothing like Giannis he's stiff when he dribbles in the open floor and only basically uses his left hand dribbling while looking down and his 1 foot explosiveness in jumping is terrible limiting his driving ability. There's no comparison between the two they play nothing a like Bagley is super bouncy but stiff Giannis is super fluid and can change directions as well as anyone and arguably the greatest physical specimen ever.

If Bagley can get his play handling to even a Paul Milsap level it would be a freakish achievement.

 

[Kangztillidie]

He''s nothing like Giannis he's stiff when he dribbles in the open floor and only basically uses his left hand dribbling while looking down and his 1 foot explosiveness in jumping is terrible limiting his driving ability. There's no comparison between the two they play nothing a like Bagley is super bouncy but stiff Giannis is super fluid and can change directions as well as anyone and arguably the greatest physical specimen ever.

If Bagley can get his play handling to even a Paul Milsap level it would be a freakish achievement.

Yeah you wouldnt have said any of that about Giannis at the same point in his career Bagley is so stop moving the goal posts.

 

[DesertFox]

Yeah you wouldnt have said any of that about Giannis at the same point in his career Bagley is so stop moving the goal posts.

Giannis was impoverished, undeveloped, yet playing PG before he was drafted.
Bagley grew up groomed for the NBA since his youth, getting scholarships before he could drive.

Giannis at 18 was 10x the facilitator Bagley is now, there is no comparison.