The Western Conference Benches: Where do the Kings rank?

[Bricklayer]

With free agency largely finished now, thought it was time to start a thread I've been thinking about for weeks. Setting aside the youngest/most unsettled (and hence unpredictable) teams/benches in the West (Lakers, Portland, Minny, Denver) where you just don't know how they are going to play it, roughly speaking the following should be the benches of each team in the Western Conference in playoff contention:

SAC: PG Collison, SG Belinelli, SG/SF Butler, SF/PF Casspi, PF Acy, C Koufos
GSW: PG Livingston, SG/SF Igoudala, PF/C Thompson, PF/C Speights, C Ezeli
LAC: PG/SG Crawford, PG/SG Rivers, SG/SF Stephenson, SG/SF Johnson, SF/PF Smith
PHX: SG Goodwin, SG Booker, SF Warren, SF/PF Teletovic, PF/C Leuer, C Len
UTH: SG Hood, SF Ingles, SF/PF Lyles, PF Booker
OKC: PG Augustin, SG/SF Morrow; SG/SF Singler, PF/C Collison, C Adams
DAL: PG Harris, PG/SG Barea, PF Villanueva, C Dalembert
HOU: PG Beverley, SG Thornton, SG/SF Brewer, PF/C Montejunas
SAN: PG Mills, PG/SG McCallum, SG/SF Ginobili, SF/PF Diaw, PF/C West
NOH: PG Cole, SF Pondexter*, SF/PF Anderson, PF Cunningham, C Ajinca
MEM: PG Udrih, SG Allen, SG/Corpse Carter, SF Barnes, PF/C Wright

*NOH could start Pondexter and have Reke come off the bench as a SG/SF

So with those rough ideas for benches, where does the Kings crew rank this year?

 

[King Baller]

GSW, SAN, LAC, OKC and MEM all have benches I like. On paper the Kings bench should be in the running with any of those. GSW gets the nod as #1 since they bring Igoudala in and he can be the PG and defend Lebron. Igoudala is the best player in that group.

I like the Kings bench a lot. It reminds me of the original "Bench Mob".

I'm going to say they are the 6th best bench in the West headed to #2 if they gel like I think they will.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Golden state is on a different level with their bench. Just so deep it's ridiculous. San Antonio also has a great bench and the Clippers vastly improved theirs, though they don't have a backup C at the moment. Dallas has a decent bench and OKC as well. Memphis has a good bench, but once again their problem is they don't have anyone that can be relied upon to score. I agree with King Baller, 5-6 is our range at the moment, but we can move up to as high as third (behind the Warriors and Spurs). Our bench is as talented as the Clipper's bench. The mere fact that I can compare our bench and say it's top 5 or 6 in the West (possibly top 3) and be sincere feels intoxicatingly wonderful.

 

[funkykingston]

The Rockets have a really nice bench. I don't think people are giving Houston it's due as a contending team. They were a #2 seed and made it to the WCF despite being ravaged by injuries. Their bench has the players you've listed plus KJ McDaniels and Clint Capela who should take a leap as role players this season as well as Dekker and Harrell who should contribute in spot duty as rookies. And I'm not even sure Ty Lawson starts. Given his ball dominance and how Harden plays I think they may find that they are best off starting Beverly next to Harden possibly making Lawson an elite level sixth man.

San Antonio's bench gained David West but lost shooting, ball handling and size inside. That's going to mean a lot of minutes for Duncan, Aldridge and Ginobili. For a team that tries to save it's guys for the playoff run that's going to make the regular season difficult. And Ginobili is 38. How much can he have in the tank? I don't think McCallum will actually play a lot of minutes barring injury. The next two guys off their bench will be Kyle Anderson (who looked great in SL) and Matt Bonner.

Golden State's bench is again fantastic.

Utah is now in the position of really needing a quality backup PG with Exum out and Burke forced to start. They also have a lot of young guys they'll have to count on as reserves.

Dallas is going to really struggle this year IMO. That is not a strong or balanced bench.

The Clippers have a lot of talent on their bench but I have real doubts about how it will mesh. That's a lot of high volume, low efficiency scoring/shooting right there.

I really like how OKC has built their bench. They compliment their starters and are well balanced.

Personally I think the Kings have the fourth best bench behind GS, HOU and OKC. I'd put them behind the Spurs but San Antonio's lack of size & shooting and Ginobili winding down makes me think they won't be as good as in recent years.

 

[Sac.Kings]

The Rockets have a really nice bench. I don't think people are giving Houston it's due as a contending team. They were a #2 seed and made it to the WCF despite being ravaged by injuries. Their bench has the players you've listed plus KJ McDaniels and Clint Capela who should take a leap as role players this season as well as Dekker and Harrell who should contribute in spot duty as rookies. And I'm not even sure Ty Lawson starts. Given his ball dominance and how Harden plays I think they may find that they are best off starting Beverly next to Harden possibly making Lawson an elite level sixth man.

San Antonio's bench gained David West but lost shooting, ball handling and size inside. That's going to mean a lot of minutes for Duncan, Aldridge and Ginobili. For a team that tries to save it's guys for the playoff run that's going to make the regular season difficult. And Ginobili is 38. How much can he have in the tank? I don't think McCallum will actually play a lot of minutes barring injury. The next two guys off their bench will be Kyle Anderson (who looked great in SL) and Matt Bonner.

Golden State's bench is again fantastic.

Utah is now in the position of really needing a quality backup PG with Exum out and Burke forced to start. They also have a lot of young guys they'll have to count on as reserves.

Dallas is going to really struggle this year IMO. That is not a strong or balanced bench.

The Clippers have a lot of talent on their bench but I have real doubts about how it will mesh. That's a lot of high volume, low efficiency scoring/shooting right there.

I really like how OKC has built their bench. They compliment their starters and are well balanced.

Personally I think the Kings have the fourth best bench behind GS, HOU and OKC. I'd put them behind the Spurs but San Antonio's lack of size & shooting and Ginobili winding down makes me think they won't be as good as in recent years.

I forgot about Houston completely. In regards to the Spurs, I have been saying they are winding down for the last 5 years and I have been wrong every single time. So with due respect, I won't count them out of anything until they actually demonstrate that they are done (as in lose more than they win).

 

[206Fan]

Warriors, Suns, Rockets, Thunder, and Spurs are better than ours. The Pelicans and Clippers are right behind us though.

The Suns have a massly underrated bench. They just need a better back up PG.

PG- Knight
SG- Booker
SF- Warren
PF- Teletovic
C- Len

That looks great

 

[Entity]

Well one thing is for sure

Collision > mccallum
Bellinelli > stauskas
Butler, casspi > casspi, Williams
Acy = Evans
Koufos >> hollins

I think with all these moves the most significant difference this year will be McLemore 2015 > 2014

The 3rd year is traditionally the year it clicks. Big improvement last year will only reveal larger improvement this year. He has a great deal of experience to absorb from his teammates now.

 

[Bricklayer]

Warriors, Suns, Rockets, Thunder, and Spurs are better than ours. The Pelicans and Clippers are right behind us though.

The Suns have a massly underrated bench. They just need a better back up PG.

PG- Knight
SG- Booker
SF- Warren
PF- Teletovic
C- Len

That looks great

Knight starts, and then its a bunch of unproven kids and vets coming off of bad years/out of the league.

 

[206Fan]

Knight starts, and then its a bunch of unproven kids and vets coming off of bad years/out of the league.

Booker is unproven...but you have WCS starting for the kings.
Booker spaces out the floor and brings 3pt shooting. I think he'll have a better rookie season than Nik did.

Warren looked very good in the 2nd half of the season. This is when he got his minutes and no injuries.

If Teletovic is healthy, he's a very good stretch 4.

Len is a good player.

So it all depends on who their backup PG is.

_____vs Collison
Booker vs Belinelli
Warren vs Casspi
Teletovic vs Acy
Len vs Kofus

Their forwards, Warren, Teletovic, and Len are better than Casspi, Acy, and Kofus.

 

[Chupacabra]

Booker is unproven...but you have WCS starting for the kings.
Booker spaces out the floor and brings 3pt shooting. I think he'll have a better rookie season than Nik did.

Warren looked very good in the 2nd half of the season. This is when he got his minutes and no injuries.

If Teletovic is healthy, he's a very good stretch 4.

Len is a good player.

So it all depends on who their backup PG is.

_____vs Collison
Booker vs Belinelli
Warren vs Casspi
Teletovic vs Acy
Len vs Kofus

Their forwards, Warren, Teletovic, and Len are better than Casspi, Acy, and Kofus.

I would disagree with that last part. Casspi is the best player out of that group of forwards. It could even be argued that Koufus is the 1st or 2nd best player of that group. Acy is the weakest out of the forwards that you mentioned but it seems to me if we're making a tit for tat comparison then we have the 1st and 2nd best players out of the afformentioned dudes.

 

[pshn80]

This is an important and interesting question: where does our bench stand in comparison with others in the west? Just looking the list of those that are likely our bench begs the question of who are our starters. From looking at Brick's bench, it looks like our starters are: Rondo, McLemore, Gay, Cousins and maybe Cauley-Stein.

With that group of starters there are so many open questions: Rondo, big question, is he healthy enough to do well as a starter; McLemore, has he reached the next level, last year he had not made it but showed improvement; Gay, proven starter at SF but is that where he will play this year; Cousins, potentially one of the best big men in the league but hasn't played n a Kings team that wins (the same is true of Coach Karl); who is 5th starter, another unsettled variable.

Looking at the bench, one question comes to mind- should we start them and have a different bench. With all these questions, this is by far the best I have felt about our team at this point in the year n a long time. I am hopeful.

 

[206Fan]

I would disagree with that last part. Casspi is the best player out of that group of forwards. It could even be argued that Koufus is the 1st or 2nd best player of that group. Acy is the weakest out of the forwards that you mentioned but it seems to me if we're making a tit for tat comparison then we have the 1st and 2nd best players out of the afformentioned dudes.

I love Omri, but I disagree. We've all become enamored by him because he's a king, but he still has a lot of work to do. People like to bring up the fact that this year was his highest 3pt shooting year, but he only attempted about 1 per game. His shooting is a major struggle, and he gets his offense from slashing. He's a nice passer, but his desicions making is poor. His overall defense also needs work.

I can't see that Casspi is the best out of this group. He's a very erratic player, but he's our erratic player.

Id argue that either Len or Kofus are the best players in that group.

Acy's weakness really drags down everyone in that group.

 

[dude12]

Booker is unproven...but you have WCS starting for the kings.
Booker spaces out the floor and brings 3pt shooting. I think he'll have a better rookie season than Nik did.

Warren looked very good in the 2nd half of the season. This is when he got his minutes and no injuries.

If Teletovic is healthy, he's a very good stretch 4.

Len is a good player.

So it all depends on who their backup PG is.

_____vs Collison
Booker vs Belinelli
Warren vs Casspi
Teletovic vs Acy
Len vs Kofus

Their forwards, Warren, Teletovic, and Len are better than Casspi, Acy, and Kofus.

That last part is just not true. Casspi and Warren both have put up good numbers but I'll take Casspi. Teletovic has had his moments and I like him but in the end he has just a slight edge over Acy....if that. Koufos is flat out better than Len.

And Booker as a rookie...yes he's going to be better than Stauskas but then again, how could one not be....he's going to struggle. Kings bench better.

 

[dude12]

With free agency largely finished now, thought it was time to start a thread I've been thinking about for weeks. Setting aside the youngest/most unsettled (and hence unpredictable) teams/benches in the West (Lakers, Portland, Minny, Denver) where you just don't know how they are going to play it, roughly speaking the following should be the benches of each team in the Western Conference in playoff contention:

SAC: PG Collison, SG Belinelli, SG/SF Butler, SF/PF Casspi, PF Acy, C Koufos
GSW: PG Livingston, SG/SF Igoudala, PF/C Thompson, PF/C Speights, C Ezeli
LAC: PG/SG Crawford, PG/SG Rivers, SG/SF Stephenson, SG/SF Johnson, SF/PF Smith
PHX: SG Goodwin, SF Warren, SF/PF Teletovic, PF/C Leuer, C Len
UTH: SG Hood, SF Ingles, SF/PF Lyles, PF Booker
OKC: PG Augustin, SG/SF Morrow; SG/SF Singler, PF/C Collison, C Adams
DAL: PG Harris, PG/SG Barea, PF Villanueva, C Dalembert
HOU: PG Beverley, SG Thornton, SG/SF Brewer, PF/C Montejunas
SAN: PG Mills, PG/SG McCallum, SG/SF Ginobili, SF/PF Diaw, PF/C West
NOH: PG Cole, SF Pondexter*, SF/PF Anderson, PF Cunningham, C Ajinca
MEM: PG Udrih, SG Allen, SG/Corpse Carter, SF Barnes, PF/C Wright

*NOH could start Pondexter and have Reke come off the bench as a SG/SF

So with those rough ideas for benches, where does the Kings crew rank this year?

I think one of the many reasons why the West is so tough.....lots a good solid benches..Memphis still has a good bench and they will be hurt by Koufos' absence. Kings bench in the upper 1/4 of these teams listed. The worst bench is Dallas.

 

[luckynuMBer10]

Well one thing is for sure

Collision > mccallum
Bellinelli > stauskas
Butler, casspi > casspi, Williams
Acy = Evans
Koufos >> hollins

I think with all these moves the most significant difference this year will be McLemore 2015 > 2014

The 3rd year is traditionally the year it clicks. Big improvement last year will only reveal larger improvement this year. He has a great deal of experience to absorb from his teammates now.

Well, I hope DC's season doesn't end in a big (no pun intended) "Collision"...

Sorry, I just had to; I tried way too hard to resist...

 

[kingsboi]

I'd put the Kings in the 5-6 range....we don't know if Trill or Koufos is going to be coming off the bench yet

 

[Bricklayer]

Booker is unproven...but you have WCS starting for the kings.
Booker spaces out the floor and brings 3pt shooting. I think he'll have a better rookie season than Nik did.

Warren looked very good in the 2nd half of the season. This is when he got his minutes and no injuries.

If Teletovic is healthy, he's a very good stretch 4.

Len is a good player.

So it all depends on who their backup PG is.

_____vs Collison
Booker vs Belinelli
Warren vs Casspi
Teletovic vs Acy
Len vs Kofus

Their forwards, Warren, Teletovic, and Len are better than Casspi, Acy, and Kofus.

Frankly its probably one of the worst benches in the West unless Teletovic can really bounce back. There's no leader. Just a bunch of kids with middling resumes. That's not how you win, as we should well know.

you add up their TOTAL NBA experience and you get this:

Warren: Age: 21, 40gms 614min 0playoffs
Goodwin: Age: 20 93gms 1068min 0playoffs
Len: Age: 22 111gms 1880min 0playoffs
Booker: Age: 18 0gms 0min 0playoffs
+ then
Teletovic: Age 29 165gms 2787min 16 playoff gms
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: 409gms 6349min 16 playoff gms

Marco Belinelli alone: 502gms 11453min 48 playoff gms


and hence the addition of a handful of washed up vets to try to at least give the appearance of experience: Ronnie Price, Sonny Weems, Jon Leuer. But those marginal guys surely aren't going to make you win.



P.S. having a better rookie season than Nik isn't exactly an accomplishment.

 

[luckynuMBer10]

I think our bench has the potential to be in the middle of the pack in terms of the best bench in the WC upon completion of the 2015-2016 campaign.

 

[206Fan]

That last part is just not true. Casspi and Warren both have put up good numbers but I'll take Casspi. Teletovic has had his moments and I like him but in the end he has just a slight edge over Acy....if that. Koufos is flat out better than Len.

And Booker as a rookie...yes he's going to be better than Stauskas but then again, how could one not be....he's going to struggle. Kings bench better.

Teletovic has just a slight edge over Acy? Seriously? Acy is basically a younger Reggie Evans with better ft shooting. Teletovic is one of the best 3pt shooting big man.

Why is Kofus flat out better than Len? Len had a better season last year.

Booker is a rookie and unproven, so is WCS.

Kofus is in his prime. Len is in his 3rd year and he's already doing things at the scale of Kofus.

When I said the Suns were better, I assumed Knight leads them because they have no other backup pg aside from Archie Goodwin.

I doubt WCS starts anyways.

Frankly its probably one of the worst benches in the West unless Teletovic can really bounce back. There's no leader. Just a bunch of kids with middling resumes. That's not how you win, as we should well know.

you add up their TOTAL NBA experience and you get this:

Warren: Age: 21, 40gms 614min 0playoffs
Goodwin: Age: 20 93gms 1068min 0playoffs
Len: Age: 22 111gms 1880min 0playoffs
Booker: Age: 18 0gms 0min 0playoffs
+ then
Teletovic: Age 29 165gms 2787min 16 playoff gms
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: 409gms 6349min 16 playoff gms

Marco Belinelli alone: 502gms 11453min 48 playoff gms


and hence the addition of a handful of washed up vets to try to at least give the appearance of experience: Ronnie Price, Sonny Weems, Jon Leuer. But those marginal guys surely aren't going to make you win.



P.S. having a better rookie season than Nik isn't exactly an accomplishment.

Who said Goodwin is starting at point? I have a very hard time believing that either one of Knight or Bledsoe won't lead the bench. Their bench is inexperienced, but it doesn't mean they suck.

I think they have a very good young core there.

Of course this is pretty difficult without knowing who their backup PG will be. I predict Knight will lead them..which is why I have their bench better than ours.

Their forwards are better than our forwards(combined as a unit), but our SG is better than theirs.

 

[dude12]

Teletovic has just a slight edge over Acy? Seriously? Acy is basically a younger Reggie Evans with better ft shooting. Teletovic is one of the best 3pt shooting big man.

Why is Kofus flat out better than Len? Len had a better season last year.

Booker is a rookie and unproven, so is WCS.

Kofus is in his prime. Len is in his 3rd year and he's already doing things at the scale of Kofus.

When I said the Suns were better, I assumed Knight leads them because they have no other backup pg aside from Archie Goodwin.

I doubt WCS starts anyways.


Who said Goodwin is starting at point? I have a very hard time believing that either one of Knight or Bledsoe won't lead the bench. Their bench is inexperienced, but it doesn't mean they suck.

I think they have a very good young core there.

Of course this is pretty difficult without knowing who their backup PG will be. I predict Knight will lead them..which is why I have their bench better than ours.

Their forwards are better than our forwards(combined as a unit), but our SG is better than theirs.

Go check your facts....Teletovic shot 32% from 3 and Acy shot 30%. Acy is a better rebounder. Koufos is a proven defender, an extremely good defensive big man. Len is not. Booker and WCS are unproven but WCS is not going to be relied on to make shots but rather be a defensive disruptor and that will happen. Booker, I believe is going to struggle as many 18 year old rookie SG's will do......18. His impact will be very minimal.

And FYI....Archie Goodwin is not a PG nor is he even a combo guard. He probably is their backup SG instead of Booker. But that bench is not and will not be as good the Kings bench.

 

[King Baller]

I forgot about Houston completely. In regards to the Spurs, I have been saying they are winding down for the last 5 years and I have been wrong every single time. So with due respect, I won't count them out of anything until they actually demonstrate that they are done (as in lose more than they win).

As Funky wrote, Houston is a good team and they added Lawson. Harden is such a consistent scorer and plays so many minutes, 37 in the regular season and over 40 in the Playoffs. Harden puts so much pressure on the opposing teams defense for so many minutes it lessens the role of the bench for Houston IMO. Houston has a good bench but they also have Harden the MVP runnerup. Then there is Dwight Howard in the paint who ain't too bad. So is the Houston bench that good or do they just have less to do?

 

[206Fan]

Go check your facts....Teletovic shot 32% from 3 and Acy shot 30%. Acy is a better rebounder. Koufos is a proven defender, an extremely good defensive big man. Len is not. Booker and WCS are unproven but WCS is not going to be relied on to make shots but rather be a defensive disruptor and that will happen. Booker, I believe is going to struggle as many 18 year old rookie SG's will do......18. His impact will be very minimal.

And FYI....Archie Goodwin is not a PG nor is he even a combo guard. He probably is their backup SG instead of Booker. But that bench is not and will not be as good the Kings bench.

Dude you should really watch both players...

Teletovic shot 32% from 3pt land last year while battling injuries. You forgot to mention that he attempted 4.8 3pt shots a game.

(Last year while mainly healthy, he shot 39% from 3pt on 4.8 attempts a game)

Acy shot 30% from 3pt land while attempting a whooping 0.9 3s a game...

Bringing up their 3pt % while using no context sucks man.

WCS is going to be relied on as a defensive disruptor, but Booker can't be relied on as a spot shooter?
Both will struggle no doubt. If you're going to give WCS this much credit, you should also tip the hat to Booker.

I don't see Goodwin as the backup PG. I believe they will use one of their starting PGs to run the 2nd unit which is the main reason why I have them ranked ahead of us.

 

[206Fan]

As Funky wrote, Houston is a good team and they added Lawson. Harden is such a consistent scorer and plays so many minutes, 37 in the regular season and over 40 in the Playoffs. Harden puts so much pressure on the opposing teams defense for so many minutes it lessens the role of the bench for Houston IMO. Houston has a good bench but they also have Harden the MVP runnerup. Then there is Dwight Howard in the paint who ain't too bad. So is the Houston bench that good or do they just have less to do?

I think it's a mix of both. Harden plays so many minutes and even when he doesn't have the ball, teams always focus more on him than anyone else which leads to a lot of 3pt opportunities for the Rockets and their bench players. They're a very good 3pt shooting team as a result. Beverly, Brewer, and Jones are going to be a good trio off the bench. Add Capela, McDaniels, Thorton, and Dekker to it. Pretty nice bench. The Kings have a good trio too. Collison, Belinelli, and Casspi.

 

[c-webb1s#1]

I voted 4th best and i'm not sure how we could be any lower. Regardless, we are really going to see the massive benefits such a bench brings. No longer will we have to pray that Landry or Nik....or anyone on the bench will hit their jumpers. No longer will we have to watch Landry have rebounds snatched out from over his head. No longer will we have to wonder why the SG we drafted for shooting cannot shoot.

Collison as we all saw last year is more than capable or running the team, and he is perfect for leading a bench mob. Marco B gives you what you'd expect, shooting, good decision making, veteran leadership. Casspi has a real good chance of having a breakout year with another season under George Karl. From what we all saw towards the end of the season i'd have to reckon he fits George's offense perfectly! WCS/Koufas will be upgrades over Landry in every single way. Acy hopefully can surprise us with more experience under his belt...even if it was the NYK experience of 2014-15.

All in all I am freakin ecstatic over this bench! We are a MUCH better team when we have a MUCH better bench

Lets start a new poll....

How many wins did last years bench squad cost us?

 

[randymoss1881]

Ya every night now we don't have to be scared when the bench comes in we will have a bench that competed with anyone and is better than most.

 

[KingMilz]

The Rockets have a really nice bench. I don't think people are giving Houston it's due as a contending team. They were a #2 seed and made it to the WCF despite being ravaged by injuries. Their bench has the players you've listed plus KJ McDaniels and Clint Capela who should take a leap as role players this season as well as Dekker and Harrell who should contribute in spot duty as rookies. And I'm not even sure Ty Lawson starts. Given his ball dominance and how Harden plays I think they may find that they are best off starting Beverly next to Harden possibly making Lawson an elite level sixth man.
.

Ty Lawson if we go back and watch that season Denver won 57 games or whatever the number was not really all that ball dominant and played off the ball quiet a bit to allow the two Andre's/Gallo the ball in there hands. Houston badly needs another guy who can handle the ball and create to lower the burden on Harden. Only from a defensive stand point would you start Bev over Ty.

As far as our bench would not surprise me if we played a lot of small ball + Kosta meaning Casspi or Butler @ the 4, Butler/Casspi/Anderson @ 3 and Belly @ 2.