Wouldn't you guys be pissed if you were Sonics fans right now(maybe some of you are). They still are hesitating to re-sign Ray Allen, which is to me is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not they are good enough to win it all is still debateable but they are definately contenders right now. With 1 more piece added(or even none) they might win it all. If they re-sign Ray they could possibly contend for the next few years. WTH are they waiting for??
The Ray Allen Debacle.
- Thread starter KP
- Start date
i dunno whats taking so long...they did mention during the game last night that they had begin negotiating for 6 months and they still haven't come to an agreement...and Ray said he would take less than the max....i mean what the hell is going on in these talks...id love to a fly on the wall
if i were a Sonics fan id be pretty aggrevated...cuz really i don't know where they would be without him
if i were a Sonics fan id be pretty aggrevated...cuz really i don't know where they would be without him
M
but where will they be with him in 4 years and having to pay 17 million dollars a season for an old man? is it worth it in the end? fact is they still do not have a dominant big man and WILL fall in the playoffs this year. first round is my prediction. is being in a financial hole an ok swap as long as you have 'entertaining' basketball? the sonics want what everyone else wants-a championship. nothing less.
I think they will be much closer to winning a championship if they re-sign Ray than if they don't. Just like IHB pointed out he's not even asking for a max deal, he said he would take less. Guys like Ray Allen don't grow on trees, if you don't lock really good players up when you can you end up like the Warriors... watching your old nucleus make it's way into the playoffs for another team.
Hell yeah I'm pissed off at the situation he is our best player and having a great year leading us to a 35-15 record. He has already stated he is willing to take much less than the 95 million over 5 years he could demand. If we don't sign him to an extension he isn't going to be back next year, thats a fact. We also have quite a few other FA's, so next summer could be a great one or a really bad one.
the only good thing is if we lose Ray then we will still have Flip.
I would rather contend than be in the lottery
Not many teams have a dominat big man and the big men we have are very soild. All great energy guys and rebounders. They pick up the garbage inside and get putbacks. Thats why we have been so good this year. So that won't be a factor at all in the playoffs. We have proved we can at least contend the best big men in the NBA.
Also by fail in the playoffs you mean not win the championship? than yeah we will fail but to mean winning 55 games and at least getting to the 2nd round is not considered a failure to me at all. I call that a great season. There is no team we will lose to in round one, baring in mind I expect the Kings to pull it togeather and get the 5th seed, therefore we won't face the kings.
the only good thing is if we lose Ray then we will still have Flip.
I would rather contend than be in the lottery
Not many teams have a dominat big man and the big men we have are very soild. All great energy guys and rebounders. They pick up the garbage inside and get putbacks. Thats why we have been so good this year. So that won't be a factor at all in the playoffs. We have proved we can at least contend the best big men in the NBA.
Also by fail in the playoffs you mean not win the championship? than yeah we will fail but to mean winning 55 games and at least getting to the 2nd round is not considered a failure to me at all. I call that a great season. There is no team we will lose to in round one, baring in mind I expect the Kings to pull it togeather and get the 5th seed, therefore we won't face the kings.
M
a season is never successful if you do not win a championship. as a kingsfan, i have learned this. by not re-signing allen, they're putting themselves in a better financial situation to pick up some marquee big men that will be free agents. i'm not saying that they shouldn't be persuing to re-sign him but they should also be careful to not get locked into a bad contract with an aging superstar. (Latrell Sprewell anyone?)
Give Allen a 3 year, 50 million dollar contract and that would be fair. If you tack on more years and a few more dollars you're looking to be handcuffed to mediocrity the last few years of his contract
Well duh. And how many of those teams are realistic contenders for the title? Keep in mind when I say dominant, I do not mean Shaq or TD dominant. They can dominate one aspect of the game. As long as they have someone who can make something happen down low. "Solid rebounders?" No...6 rebounds per game isn't going to cut it, even if it IS only in 25 minutes. 10+ and we're talking.
Give Allen a 3 year, 50 million dollar contract and that would be fair. If you tack on more years and a few more dollars you're looking to be handcuffed to mediocrity the last few years of his contract
Well duh. And how many of those teams are realistic contenders for the title? Keep in mind when I say dominant, I do not mean Shaq or TD dominant. They can dominate one aspect of the game. As long as they have someone who can make something happen down low. "Solid rebounders?" No...6 rebounds per game isn't going to cut it, even if it IS only in 25 minutes. 10+ and we're talking.
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Ray is not "worth" the money he is looking for, but from Seattle's perspective you CAN have a very successful season without winning the title. Just as the 00-01 season was a great year for us without the title, this is a great year for them. It turns around a whole franchise, reenergizes the fanbase, creates a winning atmosphere. It is worth the money to keep Ray and to keep the winning going, just as it was worth the money to keep Webb rather than sink back for us. You worry about winning the championship after you've already established yourself as a contender. First things first though -- make sure you stay in contention, THEN make your run at a title.
BTW, Seattle has the best rebounding PFs in the league right now. Not the best players by a long shot, but the best boarding duo per 48 -- they get after it.
BTW, Seattle has the best rebounding PFs in the league right now. Not the best players by a long shot, but the best boarding duo per 48 -- they get after it.
MrBiggs you need to actually watch some sonics games. As a team our forwards do a great job rebounding the ball, playing D and getting the garbage points inside. Evans, Fortson, James, Collison all do everything I mentioned TOGEATHER. We aren't just a jump shooting team. You only have to look how we do when Reggie and Danny don't play. We are totally different.
Ray is only 29 and has at least 4 very good years ahead of him..maybe more. People act like he is the age Gary Payton was when he wanted an extension. Fact is Ray is still young enough to demand a 5 or 6 year deal. We were a 37 win team last year and we are on pace for 55 if not more this year. Not winning the championship this year would not be considered a failure at all. It may be a failure if you are at the top year after year but can't quite get over the hump but for a team that didn't make the playoffs last year it isn't considered a failure.
Ray is only 29 and has at least 4 very good years ahead of him..maybe more. People act like he is the age Gary Payton was when he wanted an extension. Fact is Ray is still young enough to demand a 5 or 6 year deal. We were a 37 win team last year and we are on pace for 55 if not more this year. Not winning the championship this year would not be considered a failure at all. It may be a failure if you are at the top year after year but can't quite get over the hump but for a team that didn't make the playoffs last year it isn't considered a failure.
M
I've watched Sonics games and garbage points alone aren't going to take you far in the playoffs. the pistons have been the lone example of having success without an inside presence but Collison, James, Evans, and Radmanovich do not even began to equal Ben and Rasheed Wallace. Ben and Rasheed are such superior defenders they both hustle and keep their man in check. Your big men are lucky if even one of them tally 2 blocked shots in one game. If your 2/3 doesn't hit their jumpers you're in bad shape. the kings have been through this. And I guess if it makes you feel better you can call your season a "moral success."
Yes the Pistons are really tough inside and they obviously have the best big men rotation in the NBA. Lucky for us we wouldn't have to face them in the west playoffs. But as I said our big guys have done pretty well against the best big men this season and made lifr tough for them. Yoy underrated what our big guys can and have done. We will see what they can do when we face the pistons next week.
Obviously we need to shoot well to win games like most teams but thats not the whole story as it used to be. We win games by what our big men do inside. Most of the time it doesn't always show up on the boxscores the impact they have on games. because we are so damn deep..whenever a few guys are off there will always be guys who are on, which is why we have been successful.
And again winning 37 games last year and thinking not winning it all would be failure is totally stupid. You don't ever have a turn around that quickly. No one expected anything out of the sonics but they have proved people wrong and had a great season. Has nothing to do with moral success...it's not like we were a contender last year.
Obviously we need to shoot well to win games like most teams but thats not the whole story as it used to be. We win games by what our big men do inside. Most of the time it doesn't always show up on the boxscores the impact they have on games. because we are so damn deep..whenever a few guys are off there will always be guys who are on, which is why we have been successful.
And again winning 37 games last year and thinking not winning it all would be failure is totally stupid. You don't ever have a turn around that quickly. No one expected anything out of the sonics but they have proved people wrong and had a great season. Has nothing to do with moral success...it's not like we were a contender last year.
M
Personal attacks are not permitted on this board.
And I already apologized for that comment and made the correction. This thread has now became two people going back and forth repeating themselves. This is my last post on this thread as I have made my point and you made yours. I hope you can respect my OPINION. I will no longer visit this thread. Thank you and good day sir.
I said good day!
And I already apologized for that comment and made the correction. This thread has now became two people going back and forth repeating themselves. This is my last post on this thread as I have made my point and you made yours. I hope you can respect my OPINION. I will no longer visit this thread. Thank you and good day sir.
I said good day!
Sacramento trades: PG Bobby Jackson(11.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 21.7 minutes) C Greg Ostertag(1.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.8 minutes) SF Peja Stojakovic(19.7 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.9 apg in 38.3 minutes) Sacramento receives: SG Ray Allen(23.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 4.1 apg in 39.8 minutes) PF Nick Collison(4.7 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.3 minutes) Change in team outlook: -4.6 ppg, -2.1 rpg, and -0.2 apg.
Seattle trades: SG Ray Allen(23.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 4.1 apg in 39.8 minutes) PF Nick Collison(4.7 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.3 minutes) Seattle receives: PG Bobby Jackson(11.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 21.7 minutes) C Greg Ostertag(1.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.8 minutes) SF Peja Stojakovic(19.7 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.9 apg in 38.3 minutes) Change in team outlook: +4.6 ppg, +2.1 rpg, and +0.2 apg.
TRADE ACCEPTED
Seattle trades: SG Ray Allen(23.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 4.1 apg in 39.8 minutes) PF Nick Collison(4.7 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.3 minutes) Seattle receives: PG Bobby Jackson(11.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 21.7 minutes) C Greg Ostertag(1.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.8 minutes) SF Peja Stojakovic(19.7 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.9 apg in 38.3 minutes) Change in team outlook: +4.6 ppg, +2.1 rpg, and +0.2 apg.
TRADE ACCEPTED