The problem with Shareef

[DaMan]

He is not one to lead a team and as the more games pass by he is becoming our go to player. From looking at past seasons this would be a bad thing. I belived there are two reasons why shareef has not gone to the playoffs, One is that not one team in his career has provided him with the talent to succed in the nba or, and I firmly belive this, that sar is more suited playing with a star player in this Leauge. He could be the Yao to a team's T-mac, a Lewis to an Allen, a Pippen to a MJ. Espn made a story about shareef being a great 2 opinion to a star player when he got traded to portland.

Some thought that sar would be able to be a webber but that his failed for many reasons. One webber (along with Divac) had the talent to hide everyones weaknesses and also got his points off the pinceton offence (which really showed how great of a player that webber was), Which sar has proved to do neither of does things.

But there were others that thought sar was more suitable to becoming the 3,4 and even the 5 opinion on this team, but he has proved that u can't hold a good scorer down and is now becoming our go to guy, which is a bad thing. And personaly i thought that would occur anyway because with a starting linep up of bibby, peja, Wells, sar, and Brad he was our best player and nobody else was steping up so sar take avgtange.

But all i am saying is if u want to break this so called "Sar curse" we bring in a real go to player, (Paul Pirece!!!) and there sar would become our second opinion or we just trade him ( And to a good team please, he deserves it he's a good guy). But when looking at this sar curse every team that traded expect for the grizz, got worst instead of better, so i think we should keep him, lol.

 

[Smart_guy3]

The curse of Reef

 

[DaKings]

DaMan knows what he is talking about. I agree man, I think Sar would be great with a more dominant point guard or like you said a star who can count on him making the shots. When I watch Sar get the ball its almost always guaranteed that he will go to the basket. This can sometimes be a problem because he gets the ball up high not even close to the basket and he tends to force the ball to the hoop. He s got some talent and like Peja I would hate for it to go down the drain.

Also nice name "DaMan" Lets start a revolution everyone should put Da in front of their name.

 

[Padrino]

the problem with SAR is that he is strictly a finesse and numbers player. his game looks pretty, the numbers look pretty...but there's very little substance outside of the numbers. he's not a floor leader, and he lacks intensity. he's not a game changer. he's capable of putting up 30+ in a game, but won't change the momentum of a game. he's not the kinda guy who's gonna "fire the team up." webb was that kinda player. SAR doesn't have to be that kinda player, but people need to alter their expectations for shareef, and management needs to get around to bringing in some tougher, more passionate players. we're a starting unit full of softies outside of bonzi wells, and wells' intensity and warrior attitude are only gonna take us so far, as has become apparent.

 

[SLAB]

the problem with SAR is that he is strictly a finesse and numbers player. his game looks pretty, the numbers look pretty...but there's very little substance outside of the numbers. he's not a floor leader, and he lacks intensity. he's not a game changer. he's capable of putting up 30+ in a game, but won't change the momentum of a game. he's not the kinda guy who's gonna "fire the team up." webb was that kinda player. SAR doesn't have to be that kinda player, but people need to alter their expectations for shareef, and management needs to get around to bringing in some tougher, more passionate players. we're a starting unit full of softies outside of bonzi wells, and wells' intensity and warrior attitude are only gonna take us so far, as has become apparent.

::CoughCough RON ARTEST CoughCough:::

Sorry...I just couldn't resist!

 

[DaMan]

DaMan knows what he is talking about. I agree man, I think Sar would be great with a more dominant point guard or like you said a star who can count on him making the shots. When I watch Sar get the ball its almost always guaranteed that he will go to the basket. This can sometimes be a problem because he gets the ball up high not even close to the basket and he tends to force the ball to the hoop. He s got some talent and like Peja I would hate for it to go down the drain.

Also nice name "DaMan" Lets start a revolution everyone should put Da in front of their name.

Yea lets start a revolution with forums names, DaBricklayer instead of just Bricklayer and DaSLAB instead of just SLAB that would be nice, lol!!!

 

[BMiller52]

I don't see why everybody has fallen in love with shareef. He's just some new guy who puts up 16 and 6 that sucks on defense if he's not playing KG. What is so special about him??? His contract?

 

[pedro]

Some thought that sar would be able to be a webber but that his failed for many reasons. One webber (along with Divac) had the talent to hide everyones weaknesses and also got his points off the pinceton offence (which really showed how great of a player that webber was), Which sar has proved to do neither of does things.

But there were others that thought sar was more suitable to becoming the 3,4 and even the 5 opinion on this team, but he has proved that u can't hold a good scorer down and is now becoming our go to guy, which is a bad thing. And personaly i thought that would occur anyway because with a starting linep up of bibby, peja, Wells, sar, and Brad he was our best player and nobody else was steping up so sar take avgtange.

I totally agree with this estimation. Webber had divac as backup. Brad and sharif are similar players imo. Shareef is a bit of an inside guy but not to the agressive degree of webber. And he dosen't have the D and attitude that webber had. Webber had the attitude, Divac had his back, polard came off the bench to back up divac. We had backup. We need that tough pf or center. A one extra back up center. It's like the roster is thin with people i've never heared of. Thing is though, we don't even need a paul pierce. If we had a decent backup scoring pg, a decent backup center and one other bench scorer we'd be right in the thick of things again. It's like petrie is picking the wrong bench guys or something. For the life of me I don't know why he's picking these tiny guys to back up brad. We need a real quality backup C. Skinner's got good D, a bit short 6'9 but good D. He can't score much though. We need balance, Divac balance.

 

[DaMan]

the problem with SAR is that he is strictly a finesse and numbers player. his game looks pretty, the numbers look pretty...but there's very little substance outside of the numbers. he's not a floor leader, and he lacks intensity. he's not a game changer. he's capable of putting up 30+ in a game, but won't change the momentum of a game. he's not the kinda guy who's gonna "fire the team up." webb was that kinda player. SAR doesn't have to be that kinda player, but people need to alter their expectations for shareef, and management needs to get around to bringing in some tougher, more passionate players. we're a starting unit full of softies outside of bonzi wells, and wells' intensity and warrior attitude are only gonna take us so far, as has become apparent.

I totally agree, i think trading 2 or maybe even all three of the core 3 would help. I think trading for Paul Pierce for peja and willamson would help with the "Fire the team up" part and could be the superstar that helps the team and shareef career back to a winning level. I also think adding Joel Psybilla (sorry for the spelling) from portland would help with the def part too. And would like to trade Andre Miller and Waston for Bibby but that is not needed.

 

[BMiller52]

I totally agree, i think trading 2 or maybe even all three of the core 3 would help. I think trading for Paul Pierce for peja and willamson would help with the "Fire the team up" part and could be the superstar that helps the team and shareef career back to a winning level. I also think adding Joel Psybilla (sorry for the spelling) from portland would help with the def part too. And would like to trade Andre Miller and Waston for Bibby but that is not needed.

Who is Joel Psybilla and waston???

 

[DaMan]

Who is Joel Psybilla and waston???

sorry, Joel Przybilla the center from protland nice shoot blocker and rebounder and Earl waston would be nice for the bench. Sorry for the mistakes.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't think Pierce and Reef would be any better than Pierce and Walker which was nice but not championship material. Especially without a defensive center.

I don't think there is a problem with Reef - he's locked in for what are likely the remainder of any "prime" years on a bargain contract. A decent starter who can play two position and should we find ourselves a better pair at those spots he would be the perfect 6th man.

 

[nbrans]

I'm kind of confused by this thread. I was always under the impression that Shareef was brought in to be the fourth option on offense and a complimentary player, mostly contributing on the offensive end but chipping in on defense (so far better than expected) and rebounding (so far worse than expected). It's abundantly clear that Shareef can't be "the man" on a winning team, but I still don't buy that a team he's on is automatically going to lose.

Overall I think the Shareef acquisition has been almost completely positive, other than the abysmal rebounding. He hasn't been the problem, and I hope that the Kings keep him as a complimentary player unless a better option comes along. Shareef has brought it every game, he's shored up the positional defense issues at the 4, he's a great help defender on the pick and roll even if he's not a shotblocker, and clearly his offense is very efficient.

I really hope the Peja for Watson/Nene swap happens, because a Reef/Nene frontline would be much more versatile than Reef/Miller. Nene would bring more shotblocking and athleticism at the center spot while Reef will continue to bring his skills. They might be better suited playing together than with Miller.

 

[pedro]

Pryzbilla would bring good D, true.

 

[atxrocker]

the problem with SAR is that he is strictly a finesse and numbers player. his game looks pretty, the numbers look pretty...but there's very little substance outside of the numbers. he's not a floor leader, and he lacks intensity. he's not a game changer. he's capable of putting up 30+ in a game, but won't change the momentum of a game. he's not the kinda guy who's gonna "fire the team up." webb was that kinda player. SAR doesn't have to be that kinda player, but people need to alter their expectations for shareef, and management needs to get around to bringing in some tougher, more passionate players. we're a starting unit full of softies outside of bonzi wells, and wells' intensity and warrior attitude are only gonna take us so far, as has become apparent.

I completely agree with this.

 

[BMiller52]

I want Nene at the PF spot, not center.

 

[Warhawk]

Who had the unreal expectations of him being the next Webber?????

As stated by nbrans, nobody in the Kings ever said "Here's the next Webber to be the new team go-to guy". If you had these expectations, they were your own doing.

I like what he's brought so far, and I hope he continues to improve.

It's not like he said "This is my team." or anything like that....

 

[Packt]

What is so special about him??? His contract?

Exactly. He contributes to a lot of our problems up front, but his salary is nice for the good things he does bring.

 

[DaMan]

I don't think Pierce and Reef would be any better than Pierce and Walker which was nice but not championship material. Especially without a defensive center.

I don't think there is a problem with Reef - he's locked in for what are likely the remainder of any "prime" years on a bargain contract. A decent starter who can play two position and should we find ourselves a better pair at those spots he would be the perfect 6th man.

Personaly i think it would be better, because walker is a 2 guard in a pf's body he loves the three point line, he love to shoot and dribble every and any where. While shareef is more of a inside player and is more inclinced to pass. So therefore with pierce and sar we could play the inside outside game instead of the outside outside game they played in boston with Walker and pierce. And true we would need a defensive center that is way i think we should go after Joel Pryzbilla.

 

[pedro]

Who had the unreal expectations of him being the next Webber?????

As stated by nbrans, nobody in the Kings ever said "Here's the next Webber to be the new team go-to guy". If you had these expectations, they were your own doing.

I like what he's brought so far, and I hope he continues to improve.

It's not like he said "This is my team." or anything like that....

The announcers, media and just about every king fan I talked to thought he'd be like webber. He's soft. He can look pretty and get his ppg but he's still soft. Petrie seems to like these soft players for some reason. Our team has no D, yet most of the people seem to eat up petries picks. I tend to think he's made some horrible moves, picks via our bench. They're not showing a thing. That falls on petrie. If a guy can't make a jump shot or play any D then maybe he's really not that good.

If petrie can't make good picks then he should step down.

 

[pedro]

the problem with SAR is that he is strictly a finesse and numbers player. his game looks pretty, the numbers look pretty...but there's very little substance outside of the numbers. he's not a floor leader, and he lacks intensity. he's not a game changer. he's capable of putting up 30+ in a game, but won't change the momentum of a game. he's not the kinda guy who's gonna "fire the team up." webb was that kinda player. SAR doesn't have to be that kinda player, but people need to alter their expectations for shareef, and management needs to get around to bringing in some tougher, more passionate players. we're a starting unit full of softies outside of bonzi wells, and wells' intensity and warrior attitude are only gonna take us so far, as has become apparent.

Bam! You nailed it. He was way overrated out east too.

 

[DaMan]

The announcers, media and just about every king fan I talked to thought he'd be like webber. He's soft. He can look pretty and get his ppg but he's still soft. Petrie seems to like these soft players for some reason. Our team has no D, yet most of the people seem to eat up petries picks. I tend to think he's made some horrible moves, picks via our bench. They're not showing a thing. That falls on petrie. If a guy can't make a jump shot or play any D then maybe he's really not that good.

If petrie can't make good picks then he should step down.

Yep, alot of the people thought that.

 

[nbrans]

The announcers, media and just about every king fan I talked to thought he'd be like webber. He's soft. He can look pretty and get his ppg but he's still soft. Petrie seems to like these soft players for some reason. Our team has no D, yet most of the people seem to eat up petries picks. I tend to think he's made some horrible moves, picks via our bench. They're not showing a thing. That falls on petrie. If a guy can't make a jump shot or play any D then maybe he's really not that good.

If petrie can't make good picks then he should step down.

I think people are still biased by SAR's reputation and not watching the games. Other than Abdur-Rahim's rebounding, which hasn't been good, he hasn't been soft. He's played very good defense all season (and not just on KG and Duncan, although he was extremely good against them), he's been clutch and he's been tough. Just because someone has some finesse moves on offense doesn't mean they're soft.

And I don't think it makes sense to blame Petrie. SAR was a good signing. Hart hasn't been great, but the Kings didn't really give up anything to get him. Martin and Garcia are about as good as can be expected given the fact that they're low first round draft picks. The Bonzi trade has been a big success. The Kings are in rebuilding mode, and Petrie has done as well as he can with the situation.

 

[nbrans]

I want Nene at the PF spot, not center.

Why? He's 6'11" 260, same size as Miller, only he's approximately seven million times more athletic.

 

[DaMan]

I think people are still biased by SAR's reputation and not watching the games. Other than Abdur-Rahim's rebounding, which hasn't been good, he hasn't been soft. He's played very good defense all season (and not just on KG and Duncan, although he was extremely good against them), he's been clutch and he's been tough. Just because someone has some finesse moves on offense doesn't mean they're soft.

And I don't think it makes sense to blame Petrie. SAR was a good signing. Hart hasn't been great, but the Kings didn't really give up anything to get him. Martin and Garcia are about as good as can be expected given the fact that they're low first round draft picks. The Bonzi trade has been a big success. The Kings are in rebuilding mode, and Petrie has done as well as he can with the situation.

True sar and wells have been the best defenders in the starting lineup, but due to past seasons of playing bad d that has caused him to be labled him as a bad defender

 

[KP]

The problem with SAR is he can't rebound at all, or really take over and win us a game, and he plays worse defense then we had hoped he would. All that being said he is living up to expectations better than at least 3 of the other starting 5... he's very efficient offensively. He's also not eating up a lot of money, we are def getting a good deal as far as his contract vs. his production. I'm only a little disapointed in him, maybe because I always knew he really couldn't do anything to change the team drastically from last years .500 post trade squad. Replace Webber? Show some of the leadership(will to win) of even an aging Doug Christie?? Or be a big impact guy and take over games lifting the team onto his back with his electric play like a (healthy) Bobby Jackson?? ...He's just not that kind of player, if you expected him to be I could see why you might be a little dissapointed.... He does what he does and that's about it.

 

[pedro]

>nbrans: I think people are still biased by SAR's reputation and not watching the games.

I've watched every game. He's played better lately but has been off and on a lot too.

>Other than Abdur-Rahim's rebounding, which hasn't been good, he hasn't been soft.

I disagree. He's never been much of a banger inside. i used to watch him back east a lot. It's his whole demeaner and actions in the games. He just dosen't bang. He's a bit undersized at 6'9.

>He's played very good defense all season (and not just on KG and Duncan, although he was extremely good against them),

Most of the season no, he's not been great. He's not ever been much of a defensive player. Not that he can't learn to be.
Duncan pretty much had his way though eventually. Shareef made a few good plays yes. Against garnet yes, but nowitki stops garnet all the time.

>Just because someone has some finesse moves on offense doesn't mean they're soft.

It's not just that, he's just not a banger.

>And I don't think it makes sense to blame Petrie.

So you think corlis, skinner, garcia, thomas, hart and sampson are good picks? Okay dude whatever. Let me know when you've removed your lips from petries behind. Let me know when these guys actually come through for us.

>Hart hasn't been great,

that's an understatement if i've ever heared one.

>but the Kings didn't really give up anything to get him.

the problem is they didn't get anything in him. losing bobby jackson didn't help.

>Martin and Garcia are about as good as can be expected given the fact that they're low first round draft picks.

maybe we should have got some euros stars instead of getting these no named low round picks? I would have loved to have jorge garbajosa as a bench guy to show how lazy peja is. would have loved to have sarunas jasikevicius or any other players like him. Why isn't petrie on the ball? Why didn't he go for navarro or popovic or any of the guys blowing it up, year in and year out like jasikevicius did? Because petrie is overrated and dosen't make the right moves. Time to face reality. We could of had any number of sic players. none are stiffs like peja. none have the poor rep he has. none are serbs.

>The Bonzi trade has been a big success. The Kings are in rebuilding mode, and Petrie has done as well as he can with the situation.

I agree they are in rebulding mode. That's the first thing you said that makes any sense but petrie has definitly not done the best he could.
To think petrie is faultless or "did the best he could" is utterly ridiculous. one need only look at our god-aweful bench players.

 

[pedro]

Why? He's 6'11" 260, same size as Miller, only he's approximately seven million times more athletic.

nene's 1/4 the player brad is. check his stat line. his intagiables aren't anything to scream about either. If you were talking camby, you'd have a point.

 

[KP]

He's undersized and that contributes to his defensive lapses I think more than anything, but he doesn't rotate well either, and you're right he's not a "banger" or really aggressive except in short bursts which is part of the reason his rebounding has been so bad...the Kings starting frontcourt is easier to penetrate against this year, than last, albiet by a very small margin, but still thats saying something. Especially since they Defensive board even worse too.

 

[pedro]

True sar and wells have been the best defenders in the starting lineup, but due to past seasons of playing bad d that has caused him to be labled him as a bad defender

Bonzi's been solid on d all season but shareef has definitly not been solid all season. The past few weeks yes. He's allowed less people to get easy layups. But he's still damn soft and can't bang at all.

I agree with kp that he is a bit undersized. In this league a few inches do make a difference unless you're ben wallace. 6'9 power forwards are rare these days. Lot's of the better teams have athletic 6'10-6'11 and up pf's now. Plus i don't think shareef has much hops. We could use some hops at the pf.