The new Harry Giles on-the-court PERFORMANCE discussion

[VF21]

We'll have to agree to disagree. The writing was on the wall for awhile and the following said player thereafter suggests at minimum a change after the camels back was broken

In any case (trying to keep this somewhat relevant to Giles), one could argue that if Giles ends up elsewhere that too would be Kings incompetence, no?

Come on. This is the PERFORMANCE discussion for Giles. The discussion about front office incompetence is in the Giles OPTION thread...or the Vlade thread.

 

[mac]

Come on. This is the PERFORMANCE discussion for Giles. The discussion about front office incompetence is in the Giles OPTION thread...or the Vlade thread.

I'm not the one who started talking about Giles leaving

 

[VF21]

I'm not the one who started talking about Giles leaving

Yeah, fair enough.

This is what the mod job feels like sometimes around here:

 

[Joshoua]

The last thing Giles should even entertain us a 3 point shot, just stay at the mid range tired of just shoot 3s nonsense. If he can be money from mid range that’s fine

 

[midtowner]

The last thing Giles should even entertain us a 3 point shot, just stay at the mid range tired of just shoot 3s nonsense. If he can be money from mid range that’s fine

I disagree with this strongly. If Harry can hit the 3 - it opens up his game immensely. You have to hit over 50% of your midrange shots for it to be an effective shot - and probably closer to 60% for winning basketball. The problem with midrange - there is little chance at drawing fouls and the opposing center can just sag into the lane.

 

[Joshoua]

I disagree with this strongly. If Harry can hit the 3 - it opens up his game immensely. You have to hit over 50% of your midrange shots for it to be an effective shot - and probably closer to 60% for winning basketball. The problem with midrange - there is little chance at drawing fouls and the opposing center can just sag into the lane.

If you’re hitting even 48% from mid range defenses will respect you and chase you off no need to go behind the 3. You don’t need 5 3 point shooters out there when playoffs come it’s usual guys with mid range that are dominating

 

[VF21]

The last thing Giles should even entertain us a 3 point shot, just stay at the mid range tired of just shoot 3s nonsense. If he can be money from mid range that’s fine

Why would it bother you if Giles has a 3 in his arsenal? I don't think anybody is saying they want to see him turn into Spencer Hawes and try and jack up 3's at every opportunity. They're just saying (and I totally agree) that if he can hit it once in a while, it really throws a monkey wrench into defensive sets.

 

[Joshoua]

Why would it bother you if Giles has a 3 in his arsenal? I don't think anybody is saying they want to see him turn into Spencer Hawes and try and jack up 3's at every opportunity. They're just saying (and I totally agree) that if he can hit it once in a while, it really throws a monkey wrench into defensive sets.

He gets open mid range shots if he just sticks to hitting those his offense opens up as is

 

[DesertFox]

If you’re hitting even 48% from mid range defenses will respect you and chase you off no need to go behind the 3. You don’t need 5 3 point shooters out there when playoffs come it’s usual guys with mid range that are dominating

Only elite players hit 48% of midrange shots. A 40% mid range shooter is considered decent, and that is equivalent to a 27% 3 pt shooter.
You're rught about the midrange shot in the playoffs, but that is way down the line

 

[ESP47]

Even Buddy Hield only shoots 41% from 16ft to the 3pt line. Fox and Bogie are the only two that shoot over 50% and both are very small sample sizes. Almost every one else is under 40%.

Harden only takes .005% of his shots from that range and it's been going down every year for him under D'Antoni. It's the worst shot in basketball and only very few players like JJ Redick are any good at it.

That shot should only be taken at the very end of a shot clock. Using it any other way unless you're elite at it is basically losing basketball.

 

[VF21]

He gets open mid range shots if he just sticks to hitting those his offense opens up as is

You didn't answer my question.

 

[mac]

Even Buddy Hield only shoots 41% from 16ft to the 3pt line. Fox and Bogie are the only two that shoot over 50% and both are very small sample sizes. Almost every one else is under 40%.

Harden only takes .005% of his shots from that range and it's been going down every year for him under D'Antoni. It's the worst shot in basketball and only very few players like JJ Redick are any good at it.

That shot should only be taken at the very end of a shot clock. Using it any other way unless you're elite at it is basically losing basketball.

I do think there's something to be said about how wide open a guy is though. If defenses are going to leave Giles with 3 feet of space I'm pretty damn sure he as a professional basketball player should be able to hit way above league averages. It's quite a different thing from comparing that with say a LaMarcus Aldridge % where he's being guarded and played for that shot. Now obviously once Giles knocks that down consistently, defenses are going to take away the shot and that's where you don't want him taking it anymore, but at that point it will open up other things.

 

[ESP47]

I do think there's something to be said about how wide open a guy is though. If defenses are going to leave Giles with 3 feet of space I'm pretty damn sure he as a professional basketball player should be able to hit way above league averages. It's quite a different thing from comparing that with say a LaMarcus Aldridge % where he's being guarded and played for that shot. Now obviously once Giles knocks that down consistently, defenses are going to take away the shot and that's where you don't want him taking it anymore, but at that point it will open up other things.

The logic makes perfect sense but analytics have overtaken the logic and made it an outdated philosophy because a guy can take two steps back, shoot a much lower percentage and still be more efficient than the guy taking that 17ft jump shot.

It's really just a rehash of what we went through with Willie. He was left unguarded at the elbow because Joerger ran the ball through him a ton and teams just let him clank mid range shots all game because most 7 footers aren't good enough shooters to justify defending them up close.

I will say that Walton is doing a better job with Giles at the elbow than Joerger did. Joerger would have Giles wait for cutters for half the shot clock and if nothing was going on, Giles would just go 1 on 1 in whatever fashion he felt like was the best. It was inefficient at best. Walton has Giles looking for cutters and if there's nothing immediately, he's normally handing the ball off or passing it back out. He's still taking shots or making moves here or there but they are more efficient, which is why his FG% has gone from 50 to 56%. I loved watching Giles at the elbow last year but I complained about it too because it seemed like there was no backup plan if he wasn't able to hit a cutter. This year there's a backup for it.

 

[mac]

The logic makes perfect sense but analytics have overtaken the logic and made it an outdated philosophy because a guy can take two steps back, shoot a much lower percentage and still be more efficient than the guy taking that 17ft jump shot.

It's really just a rehash of what we went through with Willie. He was left unguarded at the elbow because Joerger ran the ball through him a ton and teams just let him clank mid range shots all game because most 7 footers aren't good enough shooters to justify defending them up close.

I will say that Walton is doing a better job with Giles at the elbow than Joerger did. Joerger would have Giles wait for cutters for half the shot clock and if nothing was going on, Giles would just go 1 on 1 in whatever fashion he felt like was the best. It was inefficient at best. Walton has Giles looking for cutters and if there's nothing immediately, he's normally handing the ball off or passing it back out. He's still taking shots or making moves here or there but they are more efficient, which is why his FG% has gone from 50 to 56%. I loved watching Giles at the elbow last year but I complained about it too because it seemed like there was no backup plan if he wasn't able to hit a cutter. This year there's a backup for it.

What's Giles free throw % vs Willie's?

 

[ESP47]

What's Giles free throw % vs Willie's?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caulewi01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilesha01.html

You can compare the two. Also scroll down to the Shooting section and look at FG% by distance. Giles has a much smaller sample size but neither players stats justify them shooting from the mid range. Willie actually shot quite a bit less from mid range if you look at the percentage of field goals attempted from each range and compare them.