The Heat...

[N.U.F.A.N.]

Well the Heat have been doing outstanding lately. With Dwyane and Shaq together, they seem unstopable. I think no team in our conference can beat these guys... I'm pretty scared about that one.

(Kings can do it.... just watch!! )

 

[¿¿¿]

the Heat have been doing outstanding lately.

Really? I never noticed...

 

[BullKing]

lol, they seem unstoppable........in the eastern conference . They would be pretty average in the West.

 

[jacobdrj]

I thought that myth was disspelled last season.

I belive Shaq took the lakers to the Finals last season. His talent is not much different this season, and Snaq himself has something to prove.

 

[Gargamel]

I thought that myth was disspelled last season.

I belive Shaq took the lakers to the Finals last season. His talent is not much different this season, and Snaq himself has something to prove.

Kobe and Malone took the Lakers to the Finals is more like it. They were reasons 1 and 1a why the Lakers squoze past SA.

 

[bigbadred00]

Shaq showed up in the finals. Shaq averaged 22.5 / 14.5 @ 63% from the field during the Spurs series. DO you honestly have any idea what you are talking about. Without Malone they were an average team but Shaq is the reason the Lakers were winning titles and WILL always be the reason and that reason is easily seen this year. With Shaq, Heat are pretty f'in good, and the Lakers....are pretty much crap.

Then in the Finals Shaq averaged 26.8 / 11 @ 63%....Shaq showed up, the rest of the team shot around 33% from the field.

Another thing is the reason they won is Derek Fisher making that miracle shot which changed the momentum of the series.

 

[kingsfannPDX]

Kobe and Malone took the Lakers to the Finals is more like it. They were reasons 1 and 1a why the Lakers squoze past SA.

serious denial!! you have a better case with fischer homes. where did kobe take the lake show this year? he only guided them to one of the worst records in franchise history.

don't fret though, as someone said on PTI, stern will give the lakers the first pick of the lottery, they will take andrew bogut and will be back in the playoffs again.

 

[KP]

Kobe and Malone took the Lakers to the Finals is more like it. They were reasons 1 and 1a why the Lakers squoze past SA.

Wow.

 

[bigbadred00]

KP? Is Gargamel's post a joke or is he honestly serious. 95% of his posts are so off the wall I don't know what to say.

 

[jacobdrj]

Kobe and Malone took the Lakers to the Finals is more like it. They were reasons 1 and 1a why the Lakers squoze past SA.

Sure, and there was just a BIG GAPEING HOLE at the center position where Tim Duncan was free to roam during that series...
Having Shaq make every team tailor their defense around him had absolutely no impact on how that series unfolded, and how the Spurs/Laker rivalry as progressed over the last 6 years.


/Scarcasim off/

 

[JayBird]

Gargamel's right... Without Malone's cheering on the sideline, and Kobe's tough interior D against the likes of duncan and nesterovic, the lakers would have been toast! Shaq was just a bystander in that series.

 

[Gargamel]

Sure, and there was just a BIG GAPEING HOLE at the center position where Tim Duncan was free to roam during that series...
Having Shaq make every team tailor their defense around him had absolutely no impact on how that series unfolded, and how the Spurs/Laker rivalry as progressed over the last 6 years.


/Scarcasim off/

Actually, that same gaping hole at center swung both ways in previous series in case the members of the freelance Shaq support squad hadn't noticed. Shaq did NOT stop Duncan from working the Lakers over before Malone arrived...and I'm sorry to inform you, Shaq did NOT stop Duncan from working the Lakers over in 2004 (Malone did).

In the final four games (wins), Kobe averaged 28/6/6 and Duncan averaged 17.5 ppg on .383 shooting while being defended by Malone. In Gm5, Kobe hit a go-ahead jumper with 11 seconds. In the same game, Shaq scored 11 pts and handed out 0 assists. Kobe and Malone provided the most timely production in the wins of that series. They were reasons 1 and 1a why the Lakers won the series.

 

[Gargamel]

Gargamel's right... Without Malone's cheering on the sideline, and Kobe's tough interior D against the likes of duncan and nesterovic, the lakers would have been toast! Shaq was just a bystander in that series.

Your commentary, quite frankly, shows your ignorance about what happened in that series (in other words, you didn't watch it). Malone was not cheering on the sideline in that series and Shaq was not providing tough interior D against Duncan. Shaq has largely been kept from defending Duncan 1:1 in the LA/SA series because of foul trouble concerns.

 

[Gargamel]

KP? Is Gargamel's post a joke or is he honestly serious. 95% of his posts are so off the wall I don't know what to say.

Please point to me any commentary of yours in which you disproved what I said about the SA series. I can only see some tangential items about Shaq stepping up in the Detroit series and in Miami.

And, btw, the momentum of that series had already shifted before Fisher's shot. The Lakers had won 2 straight and spent 3/4ths of Gm5 over SA before squeaking it out.

 

[Gargamel]

serious denial!! you have a better case with fischer homes. where did kobe take the lake show this year? he only guided them to one of the worst records in franchise history.

Except for the fact that Fisher didn't even have as much impact as Payton in that series. What does Kobe's season have to do with what happened in last year's Spurs series?

don't fret though, as someone said on PTI, stern will give the lakers the first pick of the lottery, they will take andrew bogut and will be back in the playoffs again.

And more fluff.

 

[JayBird]

Your commentary, quite frankly, shows your ignorance about what happened in that series (in other words, you didn't watch it). Malone was not cheering on the sideline in that series and Shaq was not providing tough interior D against Duncan. Shaq has largely been kept from defending Duncan 1:1 in the LA/SA series because of foul trouble concerns.

Ugh. Ok, I must reply...

Before I start, I have to admit that your blind homerism is commendable, Gargamel. MOST (and I stress "most") Laker fans threw in the towel after Shaq left, as they admitted that any hope whatsoever of their beloved team ever being in contention was gone, as the Laker front office clearly chose the wrong superstar of the two to continue with (if you disagree with that statement, any argument with you is futile, because you are either too much of a homer, or really have no bball IQ whatsoever...just in case you DO disagree, just compare LA and Miami's records, and get back to me).

You are right, Shaq didn't cover Duncan one-on-one. In fact, I would say that Shaq's defense was almost non-existent in that series, as foul concerns made him as innefective as Shaq can be. But if you are going to sit there and tell me that your Lakers would have won more than ONE game without the big man, I would serioulsy have to point and laugh. The Lakers won that series because of Malone and Kobe? Are you kidding me? The Lakers won that series because the Spurs had no answer for Shaq, and someone upstairs answered Derek Fisher's "0.4" prayer. That shot doesn't fall, and the Spurs are the ones losing to Detroit, not your team. I hope you agree.

I really have nothing more to say on the subject. The lakers are out of the playoffs, where they belong. After years of arrogant comments by Laker fans, I feel anything BUT sympathy towards them. They got exactly what they deserved, blah blah blah, it's over and done with, better luck next year.

Bring on Dallas.

 

[Gargamel]

Ugh. Ok, I must reply...

Before I start, I have to admit that your blind homerism is commendable, Gargamel. MOST (and I stress "most") Laker fans threw in the towel after Shaq left, as they admitted that any hope whatsoever of their beloved team ever being in contention was gone, as the Laker front office clearly chose the wrong superstar of the two to continue with (if you disagree with that statement, any argument with you is futile, because you are either too much of a homer, or really have no bball IQ whatsoever...just in case you DO disagree, just compare LA and Miami's records, and get back to me).

This is one of those tangential issues. No, the Lakers didn't choose the wrong superstar imo. With Kobe, they can theoretically have a future due to simple fact that he's younger and that his contract doesn't strangle the franchise financially (as big as it is). With Shaq, they are in financial hell until his downward slide and they get even LESS talent in return due to his even more massive contract. You're looking at this in black and white, when the argument is really in green. This situation wasn't as simple as, "Shaq is more dominant, so keep him." A number of factors lead to his departure.

Also, Shaq has a top-5 or so player at his side, Kobe doesn't. He also has a real head coach and a balanced team. That's an obvious difference between Miami and the Lakers.

But if you are going to sit there and tell me that your Lakers would have won more than ONE game without the big man, I would serioulsy have to point and laugh.

When the hell did I ever even argue that? I said that Kobe and Malone were MOST important in that series. THAT series. NOT Detroit. Not necessarily any others.

The Lakers won that series because of Malone and Kobe? Are you kidding me? The Lakers won that series because the Spurs had no answer for Shaq, and someone upstairs answered Derek Fisher's "0.4" prayer. That shot doesn't fall, and the Spurs are the ones losing to Detroit, not your team. I hope you agree.

I disagree and I laid out the reasons why. You are glossing over the fact that Malone held Duncan to 17.5 on .383 over 4 straight games. You tell me how that doesn't matter as much as Shaq's performance or Fisher's shot.

I really have nothing more to say on the subject. The lakers are out of the playoffs, where they belong. After years of arrogant comments by Laker fans, I feel anything BUT sympathy towards them. They got exactly what they deserved, blah blah blah, it's over and done with, better luck next year.

Aight.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Well the Heat have been doing outstanding lately. With Dwyane and Shaq together, they seem unstopable. I think no team in our conference can beat these guys... I'm pretty scared about that one.

(Kings can do it.... just watch!! )

In the most serious and realistic of ways the LAST thing the Kings need to worry about this season is the Heat.

 

[bigbadred00]

So Shaq didn't average 22 points @ 63% during the Spurs series? Kobe and Malone were definitely required to overcome the Spurs but Shaq was definitely a monster part of the equation and he always has been.

We've all found out what Kobe has become. He's Penny Hardaway #2. Shaq as we've seen twice, and we're seeing now makes his swing man into a great player and not the reverse. Kobe isn't going to make Chris Mihm into a superstar, or would he have Vlade, he isn't the perfect player to build your team around. A dominant big man, IE Shaq, is much more important and much harder to replace. There are really only 4 or 5 dominant big men in the NBA while there are numerous good swing men who could fit the Kobe or Penny role throughout the years. Your right lakers might have wanted to go younger but you and I know if Kobe wanted Shaq to be there are basically gave Buss an ultamatum Shaq would still be there especially if Kobe and Shaq actually got along.

Another thing about the Lakers is the senior management (not Buss) has really got to the crapper without West in charge. Kup-cake or whatever is a terrible GM. His moves will lead to a further demise in the Lakers. Grant is arguably the most overpaid player in the league (gotten as a filler and has 15 million + year left for the next 2 years), Vlade was a bad pickup, and Odom albeit wasn't a bad prize for taking Shaq will never be the piece Kobe needs to drive him to a title. Lakers will be in trouble for a long while. While Kobe is there I do not believe many top flight players will be dying to come to the Kobe-Lakers, nor will Kup-Cake draft well. West was the King of both fronts and is why they did extremely well during the early part of this decade. Kup-Cake was basically given 2 titles in the last 2 years but he nor his roster could finish the deal.

Kings need to worry about the Nash lead Suns for the next 4 years or so and the Warriors if they keep there core then we are going to have to worry about the Lakers. The Lakers are in trouble. This isn't the same management that won 8 titles in 25 years. And I know what happens with poor management, I'm a 9ers fan, and we haven't been the same since the mid 90s when York took the team. Kup-Cake needs to be moved for some smarter management or they will never return to there recent success, and honestly with the brashness of some of there fans, I could honestly care less.

 

[N.U.F.A.N.]

Lets hope we dont see anymore of this....

hahaha

 

[Gargamel]

So Shaq didn't average 22 points @ 63% during the Spurs series? Kobe and Malone were definitely required to overcome the Spurs but Shaq was definitely a monster part of the equation and he always has been.

Never claimed he didn't. I claimed that Kobe and Malone were of utmost importance in that series. It's true. That's why 1 man wins the Finals MVP above a teammate who contributed just a pinch less and/or didn't make the critical plays.

We've all found out what Kobe has become. He's Penny Hardaway #2. Shaq as we've seen twice, and we're seeing now makes his swing man into a great player and not the reverse. Kobe isn't going to make Chris Mihm into a superstar, or would he have Vlade, he isn't the perfect player to build your team around. A dominant big man, IE Shaq, is much more important and much harder to replace. There are really only 4 or 5 dominant big men in the NBA while there are numerous good swing men who could fit the Kobe or Penny role throughout the years. Your right lakers might have wanted to go younger but you and I know if Kobe wanted Shaq to be there are basically gave Buss an ultamatum Shaq would still be there especially if Kobe and Shaq actually got along.

You are free to base those opinions on a single season fractured by a coaching change and injuries. I, otoh, would be much more cautious in making a "Kobe is Penny" argument.

Why would Kobe be thinking about Shaq when Kobe was an inch away from signing with the Clippers?

Another thing about the Lakers is the senior management (not Buss) has really got to the crapper without West in charge. Kup-cake or whatever is a terrible GM.

He had Jerry West's seal of approval for many years under his wing.

His moves will lead to a further demise in the Lakers. Grant is arguably the most overpaid player in the league (gotten as a filler and has 15 million + year left for the next 2 years),

Without a contract like Grant's, a Shaq trade can't be made without about 8 players coming to the Lakers from the other team. He's a hefty expiring K in 2007. He could end up very beneficial, the Lakers just have to wait him out.

Vlade was a bad pickup,

That I agree with, but there really wasn't much to choose from with the MLE as far as backup centers go.

Odom albeit wasn't a bad prize for taking Shaq will never be the piece Kobe needs to drive him to a title.

No one says he is. You don't really think this was a title team, do you? Probably not, so why even make that argument?

Lakers will be in trouble for a long while. While Kobe is there I do not believe many top flight players will be dying to come to the Kobe-Lakers, nor will Kup-Cake draft well.

Moot. The Lakers are over the cap. They will have to trade expiring contracts and/or Butler/Odom to balance talent.

Kup-Cake only needs but one good draft pick in the lottery to make up for a lot of his poorer choices (which...really could've been worse considering where he was drafting).

West was the King of both fronts and is why they did extremely well during the early part of this decade. Kup-Cake was basically given 2 titles in the last 2 years but he nor his roster could finish the deal.

More to file in the goes without saying category. Btw, one could say that West was given 2 titles in the early 80s due to Sharman's work. Difference between he and Kupchak? West got a lot more years than Mitch before NBA fans (ignorant to the things GMs must consider when dealing) started pecking away at him.

Kings need to worry about the Nash lead Suns for the next 4 years or so and the Warriors if they keep there core then we are going to have to worry about the Lakers.

The Kings need to worry about themselves.

The Lakers are in trouble. This isn't the same management that won 8 titles in 25 years. And I know what happens with poor management, I'm a 9ers fan, and we haven't been the same since the mid 90s when York took the team. Kup-Cake needs to be moved for some smarter management or they will never return to there recent success, and honestly with the brashness of some of there fans, I could honestly care less.

Lol. This is such a hard sell.

I'll add that if Kupchak doesn't fit the bill, Buss will try to do just that. The Lakers don't stay down for long. Buss is one of the best owners in all of pro sports.