The Buck Stops Where? (split from the [Game] thread)

[sactowndog]

I mean, it works for Keegan!

Jokes aside (I'm a huge Keegs fan), I'm hoping Cardwell can keep it up and carve a role for himself here without getting the Keon/Carter treatment!

We can't trade the vets soon enough (Literally, I don't think anybody wants them)!

Again how bad were the Monte years when we literally can’t give his players away.

 

[gunks]

Again how bad were the Monte years when we literally can’t give his players away.

You mean Vivek's?

Not that I think Monte was a huge improvement over all the other dunce's we've had as GMs

 

[sactowndog]

You mean Vivek's?

Not that I think Monte was a huge improvement over all the other dunce's we've had as GMs

Most of the players we can’t give away were acquired and given a contract in the Monte era:
Domas
Deebo
Lavine
Monk

All acquired under Monte.

 

[The_Jamal]

You mean Vivek's?

Not that I think Monte was a huge improvement over all the other dunce's we've had as GMs

He seriously has some personal issues with Monte, it's crazy.

Monte was good GM, not the best, had some real wins and misses. But, for Sacramento history, that puts him right at the top of the list with Petrie. Who btw, had an absolutely horrible end of his career with us after the golden era Kings.

His point is also horrible because we aren't at the trade deadline yet. If all our vets are still on the team after, then he might have a point.

 

[TheMobb]

Most of the players we can’t give away were acquired and given a contract in the Monte era:
Domas
Deebo
Lavine
Monk

All acquired under Monte.

How did you come to the conclusion that these players can’t be given away?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

He seriously has some personal issues with Monte, it's crazy.

Monte was good GM, not the best, had some real wins and misses. But, for Sacramento history, that puts him right at the top of the list with Petrie. Who btw, had an absolutely horrible end of his career with us after the golden era Kings.

His point is also horrible because we aren't at the trade deadline yet. If all our vets are still on the team after, then he might have a point.

Both of them were seriously hindered by ownership. Petrie nor McNair, suddenly became idiots overnight. No, they were not given the freedom to do what they believed was best

 

[sactowndog]

How did you come to the conclusion that these players can’t be given away?

From comments by Sam and others. All are considered Negative Contracts.

 

[gunks]

Most of the players we can’t give away were acquired and given a contract in the Monte era:
Domas
Deebo
Lavine
Monk

All acquired under Monte.

I'll give you Domas (who has generated interest around the league and will likely be traded) and Monk (who we may be stuck with) as Monte signings.

But getting Lavine was absolutely Vivek. He's been after him since the PDA days. Deebo - inconclusive. Seems like a Vivek get, but without the history of our little goblin lusting after him like he did with Zach and Buddy, we may never know.

We'll probably never totally see eye to eye as we're both too committed to our separate blame agendas. Haha

 

[sactowndog]

Both of them were seriously hindered by ownership. Petrie nor McNair, suddenly became idiots overnight. No, they were not given the freedom to do what they believed was best

I think that could be said of all the Kings GM’s. But that was why I said Monte era. Yes Vivek played a role but the transactions still go under Monte’s name and record.

 

[sactowndog]

I'll give you Domas (who has generated interest around the league and will likely be traded) and Monk (who we may be stuck with) as Monte signings.

But getting Lavine was absolutely Vivek. He's been after him since the PDA days. Deebo - inconclusive. Seems like a Vivek get, but without the history of our little goblin lusting after him like he did with Zach and Buddy, we may never know.

We'll probably never totally see eye to eye as we're both too committed to our separate blame agendas. Haha

I don’t disagree it was Vivek but regardless the transactions go under Monte’s name. To be somewhat fair, I call it the Monte era. But at the end of the day it will be Monte’s name they will be attached to.

Btw none of us know how much Vivek impacted Vlade either.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I think that could be said of all the Kings GM’s. But that was why I said Monte era. Yes Vivek played a role but the transactions still go under Monte’s name and record.

It's important to acknowledge context and circumstance and not blame people when they were seriously handcuffed. Sometimes it doesn't come across that way

 

[sactowndog]

It's important to acknowledge context and circumstance and not blame people when they were seriously handcuffed. Sometimes it doesn't come across that way

As the General Manager of Basketball Operations it was Monte’s job to manage his owner. He did it poorly. It is one reason I have not been critical of Perry. He seems to manage Vivek well.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

As the General Manager of Basketball Operations it was Monte’s job to manage his owner. He did it poorly. It is one reason I have not been critical of Perry. He seems to manage Vivek well.

What gives you the impression that Perry does that well? The Shroder and Westbrook signings?

 

[sactowndog]

What gives you the impression that Perry does that well? The Shroder and Westbrook signings?

The fact we are getting Lins instead of pointless wins that take us out of prime lottery position.

 

[The_Jamal]

Perhaps there should be some clarity on a "Lins" definition because I don't think we're trying to lose. At all. 8 of our top 9 in MPG (and Max JUST passed Precious after last nights game) are all vets. Up until these last 2 games, Doug has not cared 1 iota about develop or integrating the young guys into the rotation. And even when they did play, it was just go stand in the corner while the vets took all the USG. Maxime is only getting minutes because of the Domas injury and he just outplayed Eubanks to such a degree that even Doug couldn't ignore him anymore. And now Cardwell is only getting minutes because of the Eubanks injury.

You can have whatever opinion of the roster Monte left the Kings, but Perry made it infinitely harder to put a good team on the floor by bringing in 2 more ball-dominant guards without clearing anyone out of the way.

 

[KainLear]

You can have whatever opinion of the roster Monte left the Kings, but Perry made it infinitely harder to put a good team on the floor by bringing in 2 more ball-dominant guards without clearing anyone out of the way.

That's a bit harsh considering that GM Perry inherited the DDR/Zach roster to start, even though the decision of getting them both was questionable.

 

[sactowndog]

@gunks since this got split out….

I knew Monte would be horrible when he did that interview shortly after being hired and said he planned to keep all options open. I said on this board he was going to suck.

Strategy is about picking what you won’t do and it was clear Monte had no clue how to set and execute a long term strategy. Yes, Vivek lost confidence and made dumb moves. But Monte enabled it by telling Vivek early what he wanted to hear and then by finishing repeatedly in the late lottery which is the essence of not picking a strategy.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Most of the players we can’t give away were acquired and given a contract in the Monte era:
Domas

“Can’t even give Domas away” is not analysis, it’s narrative.

 

[gunks]

@gunks since this got split out….

I knew Monte would be horrible when he did that interview shortly after being hired and said he planned to keep all options open. I said on this board he was going to suck.

Strategy is about picking what you won’t do and it was clear Monte had no clue how to set and execute a long term strategy. Yes, Vivek lost confidence and made dumb moves. But Monte enabled it by telling Vivek early what he wanted to hear and then by finishing repeatedly in the late lottery which is the essence of not picking a strategy.

I mean, bottom line is we have a horrible owner who hires horrible GMs.

Fingers crossed Perry breaks the cycle.

 

[Padrino]

@gunks since this got split out….

I knew Monte would be horrible when he did that interview shortly after being hired and said he planned to keep all options open. I said on this board he was going to suck.

Strategy is about picking what you won’t do and it was clear Monte had no clue how to set and execute a long term strategy. Yes, Vivek lost confidence and made dumb moves. But Monte enabled it by telling Vivek early what he wanted to hear and then by finishing repeatedly in the late lottery which is the essence of not picking a strategy.

It's always super fascinating to see someone just up and admit to their own confirmation bias.

 

[dude12]

Monte took a train wreck of a franchise and roster, hired Mike Brown and got this team to the playoffs and competing…..WTF is this nonsense.

 

[gunks]

It's always super fascinating to see someone just up and admit to their own confirmation bias.

Haha yeah, I feel like sactowndog never gave Monte a chance for some reason.

Honestly, a lot of their criticisms are pretty valid, but at the same time Monte was the most successful GM we've had since pre Magoof era Petrie. The bar around here is super low but you still gotta give him a bit of credit for the Beam Season, which is the most fun any of us have had around here since Webber was lacing them up for us.

 

[MizzouKing]

You mean Vivek's?

Not that I think Monte was a huge improvement over all the other dunce's we've had as GMs

Would we all agree that Pete was the absolute rock bottom worst GM in Sacramento Kings history?

 

[sactowndog]

It's always super fascinating to see someone just up and admit to their own confirmation bias.

Not confirmation bias. You care to argue that Monte was a good GM. Happy to take the other side on the moves in his tenure.

 

[sactowndog]

Haha yeah, I feel like sactowndog never gave Monte a chance for some reason.

Honestly, a lot of their criticisms are pretty valid, but at the same time Monte was the most successful GM we've had since pre Magoof era Petrie. The bar around here is super low but you still gotta give him a bit of credit for the Beam Season, which is the most fun any of us have had around here since Webber was lacing them up for us.

We made the play-offs in a season of amazing comparative health and half the league ranking for Wemby. If you include all the moves in the Monte era…. He was among the worst.

 

[sactowndog]

It's always super fascinating to see someone just up and admit to their own confirmation bias.

Pete was horrible but not a GM long enough to be the worst.

 

[The_Jamal]

It's always super fascinating to see someone just up and admit to their own confirmation bias.

Pretty sure he has me blocked, but yeah. He's just a dishonest actor at this point and I suspect has a personal vendetta of some sort related to his NBA front office friend probably having a bad interaction with Monte or something along those lines. He's tried for years to frame a case about Monte being as bad as Vlade and all his arguments remain nonsensical in every way.

 

[Padrino]

Not confirmation bias. You care to argue that Monte was a good GM. Happy to take the other side on the moves in his tenure.

I'm not really interested in relitigating "the Monte era". I've been on the record that I would have rather kept Haliburton than traded him, but that the Sabonis acquisition was shrewd and impactful when viewed through the lens of the win-now mandate coming from ownership at the time. Monte built a strong upstart team that took the league by surprise, then dropped the ball on filling it out to build upon that initial burst of success. This was somewhat a function of his conservatism as a GM, but also a function of the lack of meaningful assets in the cupboard when the "win now" mandate came down the pike and landed at Monte's feet; this is a byproduct of Vivek having tried consistently and persistently to shortcut the process throughout his governorship of the franchise.

Ultimately, I'd grade Monte's tenure a "B-", given the strength of many of his moves, the weaknesses of others, the context in which the moves occurred, and the general philosophy that was visible in his work as GM. If I was less generous and attributed the LaVine acquisition entirely to Monte instead of mostly to Vivek, that grade would fall to a "C-".

I offered that your confirmation bias was showing because you quite literally admitted to not giving Monte a chance from the start, and have for years tried to build a flimsy case to support that initial bias. It's especially foolish to hang your case on the fact that the Kings can't "give away" the likes of Sabonis, DeRozan, Monk, and LaVine before the trade deadline has even arrived. It's also foolish to hang your case on the fact that the Kings currently aren't getting "pointless wins" when they're regularly playing their aging vets 40+ minutes per game. They grabbed a pointless win just a few hours after you made that statement, in fact.

Also, claiming that Pete D'Alessandro isn't "the worst" GM in Kings history because he was justly fired so quickly into his tenure isn't quite the support for your argument that you think it is.