The Black Falcon
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
PurpleHaze
All-Star
I trust Harrison Barnes to make the right play for himself or teammate at the right time more than any other Sacramento King. Highly talented seasoned professional basketball player under control at all times, even in the most stressful moment. Plus, his shoe not likely to fall off ever, especially almost costing the game.
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gunks
Hall of Famer
What’s funny is that HB has actually been playing the best ball of his career under Luke.
And that’s the only nice thing I’ll ever say about Luke, until I wish him well post firing!
Anyways, awesome game from Barnes! He saved our butts tonight.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Love seeing HB have games like this!
He’s another player that has received a lot of criticism from KINGS fans but is a player that shows up and plays most every game and is usually solid if unspectacular.
IMO he’s usually under-appreciated because he isn’t a super star. However he’s a well-rounded player on both ends of the floor. Above average on both ends of the floor. Which is very valuable.
Remember when we didn’t have a wing player like him??
He’s clearly capable of games like this from time to time. And I believe we may see more performances like it as teams have to focus on Swipa, Buddy, Tyrese and hopefully Davion among others.
HB and Richaun feasted off the attention paid to others tonight.
He’s another player that has received a lot of criticism from KINGS fans but is a player that shows up and plays most every game and is usually solid if unspectacular.
IMO he’s usually under-appreciated because he isn’t a super star. However he’s a well-rounded player on both ends of the floor. Above average on both ends of the floor. Which is very valuable.
Remember when we didn’t have a wing player like him??
He’s clearly capable of games like this from time to time. And I believe we may see more performances like it as teams have to focus on Swipa, Buddy, Tyrese and hopefully Davion among others.
HB and Richaun feasted off the attention paid to others tonight.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
HB was our best player for several weeks at the beginning of last season and then starting burning out a bit. I hope this years depth helps keep his minutes reasonable early on.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
HB's reduced production last season seemed to coincide with being shifted to the 4. Lets hope that is all worked out.
He played 37 min last night, 20.5 in the 2nd half. Yes, he was on fire, and, yes, they needed all those minutes from him to get this win. And we know Luke likes to ride the hot hand.
And, still, it's an awful lot to ask of HB given that on most nights he'll be banging against bigger guys and, whether paired with Harkless or as part of a 3-guard lineup, he'll need to work hard on the boards to keep the Kings competitive there. As it was, last night he spent a lot of time chasing smaller guys around screens and all over the floor.
And, still, it's an awful lot to ask of HB given that on most nights he'll be banging against bigger guys and, whether paired with Harkless or as part of a 3-guard lineup, he'll need to work hard on the boards to keep the Kings competitive there. As it was, last night he spent a lot of time chasing smaller guys around screens and all over the floor.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Why not 36 from Fox? He is 23 years old and 36 minutes really isn’t that extreme.
He plays a very hi-energy offensive game, spends a ton of time in the lane, and takes a lot of punishment. Even with the added muscle he's not exactly LeBron or Shaq out there. PLUS we're all rightly clamoring for him to pick up the pace defensively. Schemes aside, the Kings' blueprint for success is to run and play intense, high-energy basketball on both ends. Even for a 23 year-old who's an excellent athlete even by NBA standards, 36 min night in, night out is too much.
DFox avg'd 35.1 mpg last year.
Some young point guard comparables:
Trae Young - 33.7 mpg.
Ja Morant - 34 mpg (most he's played).
LaMelo - 28.8 mpg
Lonzo - 31.8 mpg
Dejounte Murray - 31.9 mpg
Ben Simmons - 32.4 mpg
You get the idea.
vladtheimpaler
G-League
on the "predict the rotation" thread, i went out of the box (because for once, the kings go way more than eight guys deep).
i suggested that the kings be like the giants and play like it's hockey, with "lines"
a "veteran offensive" line of "starters" - fox, hield, barnes, thompson, holmes" who would play the first four minutes of a quarter.
then, use your mandatory TO and sub in the "younger defensive" line who press hard and play the next three minutes. (mitchell, haliburton, davis, bagley, jones)
then, repeat the rotation at 3 minutes-2 minutes.
len/harkless are "the bench" for the vets - sub them in for someone in foul trouble or not playing hard enough. metu/louie the king are the bench for the youngsters.
after three quarters, the vets have all played 21 minutes, the youngsters 15.
then you either stick with the formula for the fourth quarter or you mix and match (fox would end up playing 28 minutes if you stuck to the formula, but if he's hot, maybe he goes the entire 4th quarter (and hali, buddy, mitchell each play with him for four 4th quarter minutes - in that case, fox finishes with 33 minutes). same with barnes (or buddy or whoever is hot)
i agree that a steady diet of 36-37 minutes is too much.
but we HAVE the luxury of depth - let's use it (worked pretty well for the giants - until that checked swing)
Kyle Kuzma is averaging 12 boards/game after 6 games. (Harrell is averaging 19 and 9.) He would surely have started opposite HB if the Buddy trade to the Lake Show had gone thru. Now, Kuzma isn't shooting well, and Buddy has def been a positive for us, but interesting to wonder about what might have been.
1- Tyrese/Davion
2- Fox/Davis
3- Kuzma/Harkless
4- Barnes/Harrell
5- Holmes/Len/Harrell
1- Tyrese/Davion
2- Fox/Davis
3- Kuzma/Harkless
4- Barnes/Harrell
5- Holmes/Len/Harrell
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KingsFanSince85
All-Star
No, it isn’t interesting. Kyle Kuzma sucks.
I’m so, so glad that trade didn’t happen. Having Buddy Buckets is a much better situation. But if they are somehow dead set on dealing him it better be for player(s) better than Kyle Kuzma.
I honestly can’t even comprehend why they were remotely interested in that deal beyond Luke Walton maybe lobbying for it.
HB has played 37.3 mpg thus far - 5th in the league. 3 of the 4 players ahead of him have played in OT games (Tatum, Brown, Sabonis). So Fred VanVleet is the only player in the NBA averaging more min than HB who hasn't played in an overtime game.
DFox is 10th.
Two guys in the top-10 league-wide.
SMDH.
DFox is 10th.
Two guys in the top-10 league-wide.
SMDH.
I remember 25 years ago, players would get 40+ min all the time and nobody complained, nor did I recall players even missing games as much as they do now or sitting out games with "injuries." These are WORLD CLASS athletes, with technology and sports medicine light years ahead of what it was back then. 37 minutes per game is not going to do anything different than, say, what 34 minutes would do.
Telemachus
Starter
I would add, unlike last season, the schedule is on par with a normal season. Lasy year, teams were averaging 4 or 5 games a week. They rarely had consecutive days off. It was much easier to get worn down.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
and despite all these minutes, the guy is always available to play and doesn't suffer any injuries so it really depends on the individual and how he prepares and takes care of himself not just during the season but off of it too
You all have short memories. HB takes as good care of himself as anybody, but the guy was clearly dragging himself around the court during stretches of last season. It was noted several times on this very board that during those stretches he played much better, and more energetically, after a few days of rest in the schedule.
And if you think the difference between 34 and 37 minutes over time isn't meaningful, then it's really a mystery why coaches don't simply play their best players 36, 38, 40 minutes. Giannis is a WORLD CLASS athlete and 2-time MVP - obviously better than HB - who nonetheless is averaging only 31 mpg this year. The defending MVP, Jokic, is also averaging 31 mpg.
Middleton - 32 mpg
LaMelo - 30
Booker - 33
Sexton - 30
Embiid - 30
Doncic - 34
Etc.
It's not because those guys play for teams that are consistently blowing out opponents, or being blown out, such that they're resting in the 4th. I also don't think the Kings are the only team w/TWO top-10 minutes guys - HB is now 3rd; Fox, 9th - because only Luke knows that there's *no difference* between 34 and 37 minutes.
EIM86
Starter
either monte gotta make a trade to get a player to spell HB for 14-16 MPG or Elite Coach Walton gotta play Metu or somebody for a few minutes
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Historically real starters minutes are in that 36 mpg range. The totality of minutes isn't Waltons issue it's blasting players with things like 16-18 straight game minutes at the end of games. He has been better this season, however last season he burned up Fox and Barnes continuously. Teams like the Bucks have a championship to fall back on and and are thinking bigger picture. With one under their belt an all out effort to snatch a first seed isn't probably as important as it once was. Also, how is that lack of time suiting them being 10th in the east ATM? Teams like that can find rest typically during the season since they will indeed be eventually blowing out some of the garbage teams. This is why the Kings not playing to their strengths earlier in games is a problem year after year. They consistently let teams back into games or allow far less talented or allow even injured teams to hang around. Opposing teams adjustments are met with a counter a few plays too late as well. Those are what add up to forcing players like Barnes to play those extra few minutes when most times it shouldn't be necessary. Playing your best players 30 mpg isn't going to work for most teams. Ever. Only if you are yes, blowing teams out routinely, or have UNREAL depth. With usually only a few teams being of that level since they can stack up ring chasers like no tomorrow.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The easiest fix is to boost up Buddy a bit. Long haul this team needs a SF upgrade regardless.
"Teams like the Bucks have a championship to fall back on and and are thinking bigger picture"?
Wut? The Bucks, like most teams, were thinking "bigger picture" long before they won a championship. Giannis played 33 mpg last year, before they won the championship. He played 30 mpg before that - an MVP season for him - before they won the championship. He played 33 mpg, another MVP season, before they won a championship.
More to the point, the Kings are virtually alone in playing two starters those kind of minutes. The first half of last year some said it was because Luke had no bench. That excuse doesn't fly this year, especially in re Fox's PT. Not with not one, but TWO other point guards as fixtures in the rotation.
And, sure, playing guys long continuous stretches at end of games as Luke sometimes does is a bad idea. But, again, if most coaches thought that was the only PT issue to avoid we'd see more guys, especially top players, logging huge minutes w/no super-long stretches. You don't. Because the vast majority of coaches obviously think it's a bad idea. Not our guy.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Busting guys out for 40 game after game is an issue. But trying to keep players at 31, not wise long term. Look at Giannis' minutes this season and the games that were remotely close saw him getting your typical 35 or so. 27 in a blowout win, and then 31 in a blowout loss.
