Still defending Vlade? (split from game thread)
- Thread starter Showtime
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
This team looked all kinds of deep just a few weeks ago and it did for a reason. There's serious talent on the team and we saw the depth first hand. If there's an overreaction to be had it needs to involve what happens in between those 4 lines. If that don't work, then figure it out elsewhere.
ockingsfan
Starter
That is why I couldn’t understand why Walton didn’t put Bjeli back in when the Kings couldn’t buy a bucket.
It’s very frustrating watching Bogdan keep launching misses and Bjeli sitting on the bench without even a glance from coach.
Showtime
Starter
The coach that is managing that talent took one of the fastest paced and highest scoring teams in the league that made Buddy look like an All Star candidate to what you watched tonight. Dave did better with a garbage center who didn't rebound or defend the rim and less perimeter defensive talent.
Vlade didn't miss shot after shot after shot. Vlade didn't focus on iso and neglect passing to other Kings. Vlade certainly didn't come down wrong and hurt his hip - or his foot/ankle.
But whatever. There are some I know who cannot help but blame Vlade for everything.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Ebbs and flows. I can say I never saw Dave Joerger ever have his team looking like they did not too long ago at any point in his tenure. Right now this is teetering. Does it bounce back again? We'll see.
Iced Espresso
Starter
I liked it on paper before the season started.....
Iced Espresso
Starter
Bjelica, Bogi, Holmes are positive value guys. It's probably better to hold on to Bagley as his value should be not worth moving him right now.
Not going to get a whole lot, but they are worth something.
Showtime
Starter
Point is Vlade made the call. And that isn't working out. Injuries or not, this team isn't improving. The state of the team is all on him, and that was my previous point.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
Yeah, I’ll still defend him. I wanted Luka. I correctly deduced the decision was Luka or Fox, and I said I would trade Fox. Which most, if not all, of you Vlade bashers had the asinine idea that Fox and Luka would play together. Anyway, I still defend his ultimate decision. Fox, I believe, has better intangibles than Luka—so I understand the choice.
Having said that, it has not worked out so far. Let’s see what they get for Bagley this summer. It’s going to be another weird summer, particularly in the trade market.
I like Luke a lot. Joerger is the Jeff Fisher of NBA, and I’m not bothered he’s gone. Also, coaches are basically fungible at this level, so who really cares? You guys can mythologize Pop all you like, but he’s really just another dude who rode an all time great (second best in my life time) to a bunch of titles. If Jackson gets negligible credit for his rings, then so should Popo.
The rest of it is neither here nor there.
Having said that, it has not worked out so far. Let’s see what they get for Bagley this summer. It’s going to be another weird summer, particularly in the trade market.
I like Luke a lot. Joerger is the Jeff Fisher of NBA, and I’m not bothered he’s gone. Also, coaches are basically fungible at this level, so who really cares? You guys can mythologize Pop all you like, but he’s really just another dude who rode an all time great (second best in my life time) to a bunch of titles. If Jackson gets negligible credit for his rings, then so should Popo.
The rest of it is neither here nor there.
Well that's why I said take offers because there are guys with value on this team.
Vlade has to go at the end the season. He made some positive changes to the team especially in terms of culture but his drafts have been awful along with many of his signings.
Barring a miracle this team will be drafting in the Top-10 again. You can't leave that pick up to Vlade again. He's proven that most of the time he gets it wrong.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
Which draft? Besides 2018. Papa G? Who cares...same draft he swindled Phoenix out of Bogi. The 2017 trade down? Ended up with Barnes. Maybe we should have taken Mitchell? Great idea! Taking two PGs in one draft literally never backfires. Players and agents are super cool with that type of arrangement. Or, are we pretending this is a video game and not real life where 19 & 20 year olds are gunning for max contracts?
Sactown ExPat" post: 1491936 said:
See a few pages back on the Bagley thread from a few days ago. Vlade's drafts have been terrible (including last year 2018 and except for Fox). The Justin Jackson/Giles draft was awful and there were other guys besides Mitchell of high value. The Barnes trade is irrelevant to that draft and Barnes ain't exactly looking so great the last few weeks. He's just a guy makes almost zero difference whether he is on the team or not. Great guy but not a difference maker.
Sactown Expat,
Don't you get tired of continually making excuses for this team/organization.......only for them to continually let you down? You've been working overtime here the last few weeks spinning positivity and yet the team just keeps losing. They're 12-19 now they suck. Think otherwise all you want but the joke is on you.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
GM Interview Question 1; “Who would you have drafted in 2018?”
Vivek then presses a giant red eject button to every candidate who answers wrong.
Showtime
Starter
Who traded or signed the guys missing shot after shot? Who is coaching the same main pieces that weren't missing as many shots last season?
I have forgiven him for everything except for the Luka pick, I’m over the boogie trade which I thought was bad
KingsFanNSouth
Prospect
Not really that it is directly his fault but at this point it looks like we drafted two star players who cannot stay healthy
We don’t have two stars my friend
KingsFanNSouth
Prospect
I guess the better wording is projected star draft picks
KingsFanNSouth
Prospect
But he drafted and signed the players who did. He is responsible for building the roster
KingsFanNSouth
Prospect
The sad thing is they could have played together, because Fox stays hurt all the time.
Projected star stick pick, Fox.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
Well, we can draw a straight line from the Billy Owens pick to Chris Webber (and then Kenny Thomas, etc.-LOL). Was Owens a bad pick? Point being, things don’t happen in a vacuum. But, most importantly, I don’t trust Vivek to make a good hire should Vlade leave the position. I assume Vivek will target an analytics based approach, which is basketball I abhor (i.e. Harden), and those guys get snookered in the draft worse than anybody. They just make sure to tell Zach Lowe and Bill Simmons all about their rare draft hits, and their proprietary algorithm that discovered the player.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
all I'm going to say in regards to Vlade is that it's unfortunate that he will be drafting in the lottery again and more likely than not, drafting the wrong player again. Two, the two building blocks for this franchise are injury prone thus far and need some serious weight room work to strengthen those joints and be better able to absorb contact.
Fox needs to stay healthy first
So what's your point? Keep Vlade because the next guy might be worse? What kind of logic is that? I don't trust Vivek either but this team is heading back into the lottery and you can't trust Vlade to make the right draft pick when he's shown over and over that he usually gets it wrong (especially on the biggest draft pick of them all)
With the exception of Fox, Vlade's drafts have been poor. It's really not even debatable.
Papagiannis and Malachi Richardson are out of the league. Frank Mason (high second round pick) is essentially out of the league. Skal (who they gave up on and actually was a decent late first round pick) was traded for a guy that will be out of the league soon. Justin Jackson sucks and may be out of the league soon. Harry Giles they gave up on already and apparently they're expecting him to be out of the league soon too. Cauley-Stein's career is plummeting and he may be out of the league soon too.
You then throw in an underwhelming Bagley who can't stay healthy and a bunch of other second round picks that have not amounted to anything (while other teams are finding some absolute gems in the second round.....) and all we're left with is Fox. One good draft selection in five years.
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