Slack for Christie?

[Insomniacal Fan]

I think Christie shouldn't be judged by his W-L rate, as W-L isn't particularly relevant when you aren't actually competing.

I think the metric of success Christie has is how well he manages the roster. Do guys tell their agents that Sacramento is basketball hell, to forsake the organization for the foreseeable future? Do they publicly disparage the organization to the media and fans?

In the absence of competition, all that's left is to manage expectations

 

[Jdbraver137]

He didn’t build this nonsense roster of misfit toys.

 

[Caccia]

He didn’t build this nonsense roster of misfit toys.

You get a rec for verbal virtuosity.

 

[coolhandluke]

The real question should be "Slack for Perry?" but surprisingly not many people are asking that.

The terrible offseason we had made the team older, weaker and smaller. A lot of disjoint pieces that even Red Auerbach couldn't make work.

 

[Caccia]

The real question should be "Slack for Perry?" but surprisingly not many people are asking that.

The terrible offseason we had made the team older, weaker and smaller. A lot of disjoint pieces that even Red Auerbach couldn't make work.

I have been asking that question since just before start of training camp, when nothing happened to improve the roster. Then all of a sudden, he hires Westbrook and Achiuwa, which were good moves, albeit months late.

We can give him until the next draft, or even the middle of July, before pulling the pitchforks out of the barn, though. It takes a at least a year to reshape a company, which is what he has been tasked with doing.

 

[sactowndog]

You can point to the early schedule but let’s be honest we have missed a lot of stars.

Lakers no Doncic


OKC no Williams, no Chet


Golden State no Curry, no Green


OKC Chet 10 min, no Williams


Atl no Young


SA Castle 4 min, no Wemby.

 

[kingdivac]

You can point to the early schedule but let’s be honest we have missed a lot of stars.

Lakers no Doncic


OKC no Williams, no Chet


Golden State no Curry, no Green


OKC Chet 10 min, no Williams


Atl no Young


SA Castle 4 min, no Wemby.

And,, results the same.......team is currently outclassed......wondering on the boiling point, if there is one for the org. Or maybe's there's none - and its The Land of the Lost thi season - maybe the Kings could get together with Pelicans, Wizards, Pacers, and take the best 2 or 3 players off each team.....to formulate a real competitive-team......the Pacers I'm baffled by, though haven't followed at all this season

 

[coolhandluke]

I have been asking that question since just before start of training camp, when nothing happened to improve the roster. Then all of a sudden, he hires Westbrook and Achiuwa, which were good moves, albeit months late.

We can give him until the next draft, or even the middle of July, before pulling the pitchforks out of the barn, though. It takes a at least a year to reshape a company, which is what he has been tasked with doing.

I have seen enough of Perry's "acumen" to say it would set us back years if we entrust the rebuilding to him.

I get the feeling that he works for the agents rather than the Kings. Don't forget that this is the "mastermind" that brought over decrepit ZBo and Vince Carter. Maybe it's just me but using Sacramento as a retirement home (to curry favor with agents) is insulting. Oh, he was also the guy that squandered first round picks by drafting Justin Jackson and Harry Giles when Star level talent was still on the board. We have seen this movie before and we know how it ends.

Ok, let's be fair. Maybe he has learnt this lessons from his previous stint and has grown smarter now? Let's see his recent moves.

Net Positive:

• Retained the scouting team from last year
• Drafted Nique for a lottery protected FRP - good value and we get "equivalent" talent two years earlier - has starter potential
• Drafted Max in the second round - good value for a skilled non-defensive center
• Re-signed Keegan - retained young talent at a reasonable contract
• Signed Westbrook - good value for his contract but makes the Dennis signing redundant

Neutral:

• Drafted Cardwell - has potential to be a defensive specialist in a deep rotation
• Signed Eubanks - fair value for a bench guy - a bit better than advertised
• Signed Precious - fair value for a bench guy - not starting caliber even in short stints

Net Negative:

• (His Top priority - Marquee signing) Signed Dennis as a starter - now an overpaid bench player - $15M/year extra burden in this CBA
• (His First signing) Signed McDermott - doesn't play - wasted roster spot
• (His First re-signing) Signed Isaac Jones - didn't play much and was waived - wasted signing
• (His First trade) Traded JV for Saric - doesn't play - wasted roster spot - egregious because we gave up a starting caliber center that provided toughness and scoring - who filled in well for Sabonis last year
• Not re-signing Keon yet - should have been a no-brainer to lock up talent on a tradeable contract - we still have time to re-sign Keon but the lack of prioritization is revealing
• Has not helped Christie get better assistants to overcome his limitations - making old friend Mike Woodson, who was unceremoniously dumped by Indiana University for ineptitude, as an associate head coach reeks of nepotism - he got fellow podcaster BJ Armstrong a gig too in the FO - no wonder we ended up with this abominable version of pickup basketball

If writing motivational quotes was our requirement as a GM, I think he has earned his contract. When it comes to basketball, his "masterstrokes" has left the team smaller and more unbalanced than last year. We needed front court help and he went the opposite way leaving us with 1 center and 1 power forward with no quality backup that can even hold the fort. Talking about defensive culture and signing non-defensive guys is nonsensical. Clogging the development of the youth by signing "over the hill" vets reveals the lack of foresight.

It may appear a bit harsh to make judgments before the trading floodgates open on Dec 15 but whatever I have seen till now does not inspire confidence. He inherited a mess and he has made it much worse. The results so far are underwhelming but the thinking behind the actions is more distressing. I wish I could be charitable but I need to see some sign of competence before extending the benefit of doubt to a nepo hire.

 

[Caccia]

I read an article this week that the pace of games in the NBA has increased dramatically the past two seasons. The greatest increase came from the Miami Heat, but the Kings were one of five teams to increase their pace by more than two possessions per game. I had noticed many teams seemed to be running a lot faster this season, almost like a basketball tryout speed, but did not realize that the Kings under Doug Christie were part of that trend.

 

[dude12]

Was going to start a new thread but figure I’ll put this here.

Driving home from work I had the Stiles show on and I joined the conversation midstream. Stiles was quoting Sam Amick when talking about Doug Christie and Sam was saying things are pretty bad in regards to DC. Remember how Eubanks responded to coming out of the game last night after a short first quarter stint to begin the game. He was not happy. I took it as players starting to not respond to DC or tired of how he talks to them in regards to “doing it for the city and having pride, etc”

Stiles then started talking about do you replace him or let him ride it out. They talked about Mike Woodson but didn’t think he had the juice to do this. Stiles said he had heard some names mentioned but he was not at liberty to discuss.

I think Perry has to move some of these vets sooner than later. They don’t belong on this iteration of the team nor is their any leadership coming from these vets.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The problem is everyone knows they are being shopped so they won't respect the coach or the org no matter who it is.

 

[SacTownKid]

Was going to start a new thread but figure I’ll put this here.

Driving home from work I had the Stiles show on and I joined the conversation midstream. Stiles was quoting Sam Amick when talking about Doug Christie and Sam was saying things are pretty bad in regards to DC. Remember how Eubanks responded to coming out of the game last night after a short first quarter stint to begin the game. He was not happy. I took it as players starting to not respond to DC or tired of how he talks to them in regards to “doing it for the city and having pride, etc”

Stiles then started talking about do you replace him or let him ride it out. They talked about Mike Woodson but didn’t think he had the juice to do this. Stiles said he had heard some names mentioned but he was not at liberty to discuss.

I think Perry has to move some of these vets sooner than later. They don’t belong on this iteration of the team nor is their any leadership coming from these vets.

Wouldn't doubt it. All the things Doug is doing as for the mental side of it would fly on a young, developing team. 30 year old men ain't hearing that ****. A coach only has so many bites at the "pride" apple before it incinerates the locker room.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Stiles was quoting Sam Amick when talking about Doug Christie and Sam was saying things are pretty bad in regards to DC. ”

...

Stiles then started talking about do you replace him or let him ride it out.

Firing Doug Christie would be just about the biggest possible indictment of the front office that could possibly exist. Let me reason this out.

This front office hired Doug. On purpose. Just this summer. They know that he's a defense-first guy. Then, they gave him a roster full of 17 shooting guards and almost nobody who can defend. That's like giving a race car driver a car with three flats and sending him out on the track.

Now there are three possible motivations for the front office to have hired Doug.
1) They knew they were going to put together a car with three flats, and they wanted the cheapest possible driver to ride things out until they could build a proper car, when they could replace him with a more expensive driver.
2) They knew they were going to put together a car with three flats, but he was their top driver and he was available now and they wanted to lock him up so that he would have more track experience and be in the organization once they built a proper car.
3) They thought they could win races running a car with three flats, and since Doug can't do that they're going to try to find somebody who can.

If #1, then you don't fire Doug, because you brought him in specifically to hold down the job over the rebuild.
If #2, then you don't fire Doug, because you brought him in specifically to oversee the rebuild and take over at the end of it.
If #3, they you fire Doug, but you're idiots. Unabashed, blinkering idiots.

Do I believe in this front office? Not particularly. But at this point I don't think there's enough evidence that they are unabashed, blinkering idiots for me to believe in #3. But boy howdy, if Doug gets fired...we're in TROUBLE.

 

[KainLear]

Firing Doug Christie would be just about the biggest possible indictment of the front office that could possibly exist. Let me reason this out.

This front office hired Doug. On purpose. Just this summer. They know that he's a defense-first guy. Then, they gave him a roster full of 17 shooting guards and almost nobody who can defend. That's like giving a race car driver a car with three flats and sending him out on the track.

Now there are three possible motivations for the front office to have hired Doug.
1) They knew they were going to put together a car with three flats, and they wanted the cheapest possible driver to ride things out until they could build a proper car, when they could replace him with a more expensive driver.
2) They knew they were going to put together a car with three flats, but he was their top driver and he was available now and they wanted to lock him up so that he would have more track experience and be in the organization once they built a proper car.
3) They thought they could win races running a car with three flats, and since Doug can't do that they're going to try to find somebody who can.

If #1, then you don't fire Doug, because you brought him in specifically to hold down the job over the rebuild.
If #2, then you don't fire Doug, because you brought him in specifically to oversee the rebuild and take over at the end of it.
If #3, they you fire Doug, but you're idiots. Unabashed, blinkering idiots.

Do I believe in this front office? Not particularly. But at this point I don't think there's enough evidence that they are unabashed, blinkering idiots for me to believe in #3. But boy howdy, if Doug gets fired...we're in TROUBLE.

Most importantly, anyone with a coaching résumé on Christie’s level, or above it, however you like to define “above”, would cost significantly more than what he’s making now. He’s probably one of the least expensive head coaches in the league.

 

[KainLear]

I have seen enough of Perry's "acumen" to say it would set us back years if we entrust the rebuilding to him...

If this isn't a hot take, I don't know what is.

Kings fans do baffle me.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I have seen enough of Perry's "acumen" to say it would set us back years if we entrust the rebuilding to him.

I get the feeling that he works for the agents rather than the Kings. Don't forget that this is the "mastermind" that brought over decrepit ZBo and Vince Carter. Maybe it's just me but using Sacramento as a retirement home (to curry favor with agents) is insulting. Oh, he was also the guy that squandered first round picks by drafting Justin Jackson and Harry Giles when Star level talent was still on the board. We have seen this movie before and we know how it ends.

Ok, let's be fair. Maybe he has learnt this lessons from his previous stint and has grown smarter now? Let's see his recent moves.

Net Positive:

• Retained the scouting team from last year
• Drafted Nique for a lottery protected FRP - good value and we get "equivalent" talent two years earlier - has starter potential
• Drafted Max in the second round - good value for a skilled non-defensive center
• Re-signed Keegan - retained young talent at a reasonable contract
• Signed Westbrook - good value for his contract but makes the Dennis signing redundant

Neutral:

• Drafted Cardwell - has potential to be a defensive specialist in a deep rotation
• Signed Eubanks - fair value for a bench guy - a bit better than advertised
• Signed Precious - fair value for a bench guy - not starting caliber even in short stints

Net Negative:

• (His Top priority - Marquee signing) Signed Dennis as a starter - now an overpaid bench player - $15M/year extra burden in this CBA
• (His First signing) Signed McDermott - doesn't play - wasted roster spot
• (His First re-signing) Signed Isaac Jones - didn't play much and was waived - wasted signing
• (His First trade) Traded JV for Saric - doesn't play - wasted roster spot - egregious because we gave up a starting caliber center that provided toughness and scoring - who filled in well for Sabonis last year
• Not re-signing Keon yet - should have been a no-brainer to lock up talent on a tradeable contract - we still have time to re-sign Keon but the lack of prioritization is revealing
• Has not helped Christie get better assistants to overcome his limitations - making old friend Mike Woodson, who was unceremoniously dumped by Indiana University for ineptitude, as an associate head coach reeks of nepotism - he got fellow podcaster BJ Armstrong a gig too in the FO - no wonder we ended up with this abominable version of pickup basketball

If writing motivational quotes was our requirement as a GM, I think he has earned his contract. When it comes to basketball, his "masterstrokes" has left the team smaller and more unbalanced than last year. We needed front court help and he went the opposite way leaving us with 1 center and 1 power forward with no quality backup that can even hold the fort. Talking about defensive culture and signing non-defensive guys is nonsensical. Clogging the development of the youth by signing "over the hill" vets reveals the lack of foresight.

It may appear a bit harsh to make judgments before the trading floodgates open on Dec 15 but whatever I have seen till now does not inspire confidence. He inherited a mess and he has made it much worse. The results so far are underwhelming but the thinking behind the actions is more distressing. I wish I could be charitable but I need to see some sign of competence before extending the benefit of doubt to a nepo hire.

I mean...I don't quite understand just how much further we can be set back relative to where we currently are, but if you say so, then you say so, I guess...

 

[Turgenev]

Wouldn't doubt it. All the things Doug is doing as for the mental side of it would fly on a young, developing team. 30 year old men ain't hearing that ****. A coach only has so many bites at the "pride" apple before it incinerates the locker room.

If Lavine grows to hate him so much that he declines his player option at the end of the year, great.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I look at Christie like Chauncey in Portland. Almost identical, replaced coach with star player champing at the bit, star player forces out, team is rebuilt from scratch. Chauncey got his contract renewed before the FBI stepped in and frankly team played better for Billups than it has for Splitter.

But ultimately it's like Cap said, there's 3 lines of thinking with Christie and only the one that involves firing him proves that we're idiots.

 

[coolhandluke]

Firing Doug Christie would be just about the biggest possible indictment of the front office that could possibly exist. Let me reason this out.

This front office hired Doug. On purpose. Just this summer. They know that he's a defense-first guy. Then, they gave him a roster full of 17 shooting guards and almost nobody who can defend. That's like giving a race car driver a car with three flats and sending him out on the track.

Now there are three possible motivations for the front office to have hired Doug.
1) They knew they were going to put together a car with three flats, and they wanted the cheapest possible driver to ride things out until they could build a proper car, when they could replace him with a more expensive driver.
2) They knew they were going to put together a car with three flats, but he was their top driver and he was available now and they wanted to lock him up so that he would have more track experience and be in the organization once they built a proper car.
3) They thought they could win races running a car with three flats, and since Doug can't do that they're going to try to find somebody who can.

If #1, then you don't fire Doug, because you brought him in specifically to hold down the job over the rebuild.
If #2, then you don't fire Doug, because you brought him in specifically to oversee the rebuild and take over at the end of it.
If #3, they you fire Doug, but you're idiots. Unabashed, blinkering idiots.

Do I believe in this front office? Not particularly. But at this point I don't think there's enough evidence that they are unabashed, blinkering idiots for me to believe in #3. But boy howdy, if Doug gets fired...we're in TROUBLE.

If sending a race car driver out on the track with a car having three flats is not incompetence, I don't know what is.

Most likely, the FO will need a scapegoat and Christie will be fired to buy themselves some time.

 

[coolhandluke]

If this isn't a hot take, I don't know what is.

Kings fans do baffle me.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Every time tanking came up on this forum I would say this fanbase does not have the stomach for a twenty win season

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

If Lavine grows to hate him so much that he declines his player option at the end of the year, great.

If Lavine declines his player option, I'd say Perry and Doug would be up for EotY and CotY

 

[Joshyjosh31]

The real question should be "Slack for Perry?" but surprisingly not many people are asking that.

The terrible offseason we had made the team older, weaker and smaller. A lot of disjoint pieces that even Red Auerbach couldn't make work.

They give him a pass because he drafted Nique one decent move and three boneheaded moves atleast Doug had us winning games last year before fox nuked it. Not that I think Doug is a great coach or anything think he’d be good for a rebuild preaching defense and hard work

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Was going to start a new thread but figure I’ll put this here.

Driving home from work I had the Stiles show on and I joined the conversation midstream. Stiles was quoting Sam Amick when talking about Doug Christie and Sam was saying things are pretty bad in regards to DC. Remember how Eubanks responded to coming out of the game last night after a short first quarter stint to begin the game. He was not happy. I took it as players starting to not respond to DC or tired of how he talks to them in regards to “doing it for the city and having pride, etc”

Stiles then started talking about do you replace him or let him ride it out. They talked about Mike Woodson but didn’t think he had the juice to do this. Stiles said he had heard some names mentioned but he was not at liberty to discuss.

I think Perry has to move some of these vets sooner than later. They don’t belong on this iteration of the team nor is their any leadership coming from these vets.

Eubanks should be grateful he’s even touching the court all this stupid talk about culture and this is what the vets are doing pure comedy, DDR mailed it in already

 

[Capt. Factorial]

They give him a pass because he drafted Nique

No.

Perry gets a pass because he was given a difficult task and he's only been on the job a couple of months. No, I didn't like the Schröder signing. No, I didn't like the JVal trade. I'm perfectly open to the possibility that he sucks at this. But you have to give a GM more than a few months and give him a chance to implement his vision. Like a tiny modicum of patience. Otherwise you burn through three GMs a year and keep wondering why you're always starting at square one.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Every time tanking came up on this forum I would say this fanbase does not have the stomach for a twenty win season

Ya because we don’t wanna tank while Ellis, Carter, and Nique combined for 10 minutes

 

[Joshyjosh31]

No.

Perry gets a pass because he was given a difficult task and he's only been on the job a couple of months. No, I didn't like the Schröder signing. No, I didn't like the JVal trade. I'm perfectly open to the possibility that he sucks at this. But you have to give a GM more than a few months and give him a chance to implement his vision. Like a tiny modicum of patience. Otherwise you burn through three GMs a year and keep wondering why you're always starting at square one.

If we fire Doug we’re burning through coaches as well but you’re right but at the same time I have zero faith in Perry

Has a team ever fired a coach in consecutive years mid season at that

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Ya because we don’t wanna tank while Ellis, Carter, and Nique combined for 10 minutes

It's going to happen sooner or later, this is how you get there without drawing the league's suspicion you've done it on purpose.

 

[Sam0ah]

Doubt He will do it , but we need to see a ton less from the vets going forward if he likes his job. The starters are not getting it done and haven't been getting it done for sometime. I much rather see the youth in there with Keon and Keegs.

 

[dude12]

Wait until the team comes back home. The fans in attendance are going to become increasingly vocal. If Doug doesn’t increase playing time for young guys, I think he gets lit up by fans as does the team. We will see how Vivek responds. One thing Vivek is not is patient.

I think it’s 50/50 Doug gets fired.
He’s been dealt a crap sandwich but he’s also done a poor job with what he has…..like real bad
Once the team became split into the Fox and Domas camps under Brown, the vets should have been sent out for a reset. That includes Domas. The org is too slow to reset including this year.
Scott Perry needs to answer questions from our media. What is the plan? This gap year stuff makes zero sense.
If you’re trying to build a culture, bringing in vets to do so doesn’t work with this group. These vets are more interested in themselves than the team……should have trusted the young guys.