SI gives Kings midseason grade of ...

[Tetsujin]

It was one of the reasons for firing Malone. I was told Malone at the very start has somewhat a different vision where the team should be going - starting on his reluctance to extend Cousins's contract, renewing Gay's, and so on.

We all know that every team uses analytics to help them build a successful team. Malone should have known this and embraced it as part of modern team building. It was so naive for Malone to come out and nullify analytics as an important tool, especially that the top of the organization believes strongly on analytics.

It was a very arrogant statement and it was seen as not being a very good team player.

People get so caught up in the gospel of analytics that they forget that there are other ways to evaluate things.

Heck, Billy Beane, who is essentially the originator of the whole advanced stats as a basis for team construction thing, has backed away from the Sabrmetrics table and is using slightly more traditional methods of evaluating talent (in the case of players like Brandon Moss, simply taking a flyer on dudes who have almost played themselves out of the league).

Yes, numbers can help with evaluation but if building a good team was as simple as crunching numbers then there would be a hell of a lot of GMs out of a job (in any sport).

 

[Chubbs]

The funny thing is, someone secure in what they're doing and why they're doing it wouldn't care. Even the most ardent supporter of analytics has to admit that they're a tool which can enhance what you're doing, but the game is still won and lost on the court and if you can't stop the other team from scoring, you're not going to win anything. It seems the front office took from this exchange (or ones like it)... "this isn't going to work, we're not on the same page" when they could have instead decided... "it doesn't matter what he says about analytics, that's our job. His job is to get the most out of the players on the roster and keep the team competitive. If he's doing that job successfully, he can say whatever he wants on the side."

That's how I would have taken it anyway. The coach and the GM have different jobs. They don't have to agree on everything, they just have to work toward a common goal. Winning as many games as possible seems like a pretty clear common goal. Which leads me again to the only conclusion that makes sense of the situation:

Our analytically inclined front office looked at the numbers and decided that missing the playoffs by however many games and losing a top 10 pick in this draft was not part of their plan. I see a lot of talent 1-10 in this draft so I can understand why such a decision would be made. They wanted a coach who's on-board with tinkering with the offense and "developing" younger players as a way of working toward the ultimate goal of adding another player through the draft this year. Malone was probed and he wanted to stick with his plan of gritting out wins with slow-it-down, pound it inside offense and aggressive defense so the change was made. My speculation entirely, but I think this is easier to believe than the prevailing notion that Vivek and PDA are incompetent.

Trouble is... I think they're going to find that replacing Malone with an equally qualified candidate and allowing that candidate time to establish a comparable rapport with the players is not going to be nearly as easy as they think it is. As much as I like the idea of adding talent through the draft, balanced against the prospect of delaying your progress by another year (if not more), I don't think it was worth the risk. What if we don't keep the pick after all and now you're looking at a whole year of development wasted with zero tangible benefit?

Or maybe they're just insecure and petty and that's all there is to it.

Basically, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying they lied to the fans, and really this was intentional tanking. It's not incompetence, cause they meant to do this? For what's likely another 8-10 pick?

They meant to become a national punchline? Vivek meant to have his name smeared by a national publication (ESPN, especially Grantland, has made Vivek their punching bag as well along with SI now, and that started this summer with the "no one has any idea what the Kings are doing" stuff with the Nik pick).

Is this supposed to make anyone feel better or worse?

You give them too much credit I think.

Insecure and petty is a given, given the ridiculous leaks every step of the way (Malone didn't want to extend Boogie and Rudy is just an absurd leak that isn't even believable, yet one poster here at least keeps repeating it as gospel). But I actually believe Vivek thought this would result in more won games NOW. I have to believe that. Cause the alternative is he lied to some good fans who deserve the truth.

Or it's what Spike said, they're incompetent AND liars.

This John Cleese clip on the nature of stupidity really applies here.

"If you're absolutely no good at something, at all, then you lack exactly the skills that you need to know that you are absolutely no good at it."

 

[MizzouKing]

I think it's more the accumulation of silence from Vivek, not solely that he's overseas at an obvious high-level function. Do you think anyone would really care Vivek was in India if he hadn't been in hiding the last month while his team has continued its slide into the sewer?

A vital part of leadership is manning the ship when the seas get rough, and frankly, our supposed captain is nowhere to be seen. It's not an accident there currently appears to be zero leadership in this organization.

From what I'm piecing together from Twitter, much of the silence is from ownership not being on the same page. Thus, with several parties involved, no decisions are getting made. The FO keeps trying to buy time, talking about some vague lengthy "process" they are methodically undertaking, but the reality is probably that there's a lot of turmoil behind the scenes. I'm guessing the Malone firing caught several of them off guard, exacerbating whatever rifts may have been in place to begin with.

 

[Chupacabra]

This SI article is very good for the health of our team in the long run. Our FO needs to be absolutely blasted by the media and fanbase until they realize what the probelm is and how to fix it.

 

[Warhawk]

Most indications are that the final straw was when Malone came out publicly and made a comment about his lack of belief in analytics, saying "analytics doesn't win basketball games. Defense wins games."

I'm sure there were other reasons, but I'm also sure no team ever airs all the reasons a coach is fired. My best guess is that when Malone drew the line in the sand, it was the one act they (and not honestly sure who "they" was at this point) would not allow to go unpunished.

I can't believe they got that upset over a statement that "defense wins basketball games". If the coach is getting results, he could say that the "grape Gatorade wins basketball games" as long as he keeps putting up a better record than the year before. Maybe there are other reasons, but just come out and say so, even if you don't address specifics. Saying that the team pace was too slow was the reason for firing a coach is nuts when your best players are post players. Makes you look like a laughingstock. Especially when your new ownership group hired the coach BEFORE the GM because of their relationship and his work at previous jobs. PDA hasn't ever been a GM before, so you don't have a track record to go on there.

And if that is the case, then does Vivek's statement that this season is about wins and losses all of a sudden mean nothing? Fire a coach that is winning and keep the substitute teacher that isn't? OK not to "punish" that?

 

[Glenn]

Malone was the employee. Vivek and PDA were his employers. You put yourself in opposition with your bosses and you risk losing your job. Carmichael Dave is a perfect example.

We'll never know everything that happened. What we do know is that Malone is no longer the coach and the people who made the decision to fire him had the power to do so. It's not overstepping your job description when you own the team.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with anything they've done but they have the right to do it...just like we as fans have the right to protest what they've done. It's kind how it all work.

I think the "overstepping your job description" is referring to Malone being told how to coach. I don't know what exactly is overstepping but when a coach is doing remarkably well yet disobeying the people who can hire and fire, I admire the coach. It so far is showing that the coach was correct which I realize is not the issue. The owner has the right to destroy the team and is succeeding very well.

As a fan, I have certain rights also. I doubt if many if any at all of the STH will refuse to re-up but there are a lot of threats. Perhaps this will be the year that the threats are acted upon. There is only so much you can take.

 

[Glenn]

From what I'm piecing together from Twitter, much of the silence is from ownership not being on the same page. Thus, with several parties involved, no decisions are getting made. The FO keeps trying to buy time, talking about some vague lengthy "process" they are methodically undertaking, but the reality is probably that there's a lot of turmoil behind the scenes. I'm guessing the Malone firing caught several of them off guard, exacerbating whatever rifts may have been in place to begin with.

There certainly could be a lot of confusion but the one item that caught all of the underlings off guard is that anyone except Vivek can be fired for any reason at any time AND even if they were catching national attention at doing a great job. Would anyone like to work in this environment?

 

[Glenn]

I can't believe they got that upset over a statement that "defense wins basketball games". If the coach is getting results, he could say that the "grape Gatorade wins basketball games" as long as he keeps putting up a better record than the year before. Maybe there are other reasons, but just come out and say so, even if you don't address specifics. Saying that the team pace was too slow was the reason for firing a coach is nuts when your best players are post players. Makes you look like a laughingstock. Especially when your new ownership group hired the coach BEFORE the GM because of their relationship and his work at previous jobs. PDA hasn't ever been a GM before, so you don't have a track record to go on there.

And if that is the case, then does Vivek's statement that this season is about wins and losses all of a sudden mean nothing? Fire a coach that is winning and keep the substitute teacher that isn't? OK not to "punish" that?

Far too many sentences. Malone was fired for winning in an improper way as defined by Vivek.

 

[Chubbs]

I can't believe they got that upset over a statement that "defense wins basketball games". If the coach is getting results, he could say that the "grape Gatorade wins basketball games" as long as he keeps putting up a better record than the year before. Maybe there are other reasons, but just come out and say so, even if you don't address specifics. Saying that the team pace was too slow was the reason for firing a coach is nuts when your best players are post players. Makes you look like a laughingstock. Especially when your new ownership group hired the coach BEFORE the GM because of their relationship and his work at previous jobs. PDA hasn't ever been a GM before, so you don't have a track record to go on there.

And if that is the case, then does Vivek's statement that this season is about wins and losses all of a sudden mean nothing? Fire a coach that is winning and keep the substitute teacher that isn't? OK not to "punish" that?

It's hard to believe, isn't it?

As I posted in one of the PDA threads, they (PDA/Mullin/Bratz) flew to Vegas Dec 8th to urge the firing of Malone, the same day Malone's analytics is BS quote became public. The same exact day. If you believe Voison's timeline of events, of course. Which was told to her by Vivek himself.

I suspect there was a falling out dec 7th, which led to that quote. And they almost immediately ran to the owner to get Malone fired. I also strongly suspect if that's what Malone told the press, behind closed doors it was a whole lot more heated.

Petty, juvenile, impulsive. Truly unbelievable. If it hadn't happened no one would believe it. Most of the NBA world still doesn't believe it.

 

[King Baller]

It's hard to believe, isn't it?

As I posted in one of the PDA threads, they (PDA/Mullin/Bratz) flew to Vegas Dec 8th to urge the firing of Malone, the same day Malone's analytics is BS quote became public. The same exact day. If you believe Voison's timeline of events, of course. Which was told to her by Vivek himself.

I suspect there was a falling out dec 7th, which led to that quote. And they almost immediately ran to the owner to get Malone fired. I also strongly suspect if that's what Malone told the press, behind closed doors it was a whole lot more heated.

Petty, juvenile, impulsive. Truly unbelievable. If it hadn't happened no one would believe it. Most of the NBA world still doesn't believe it.

PDA/Mullin/Bratz are the "Basketball Experts" that advised The Owner Vivek to fire Malone. Time is proving that they made a grievous miscalculated error. IMO Vivek will fire them all after the season and reboot with a different plan. I suspect he will build a much more traditional style team around his one All Star Player DeMarcus Cousins going forward after that.

 

[Spike]

One can only hope.

 

[rainmaker]

From what I'm piecing together from Twitter, much of the silence is from ownership not being on the same page. Thus, with several parties involved, no decisions are getting made. The FO keeps trying to buy time, talking about some vague lengthy "process" they are methodically undertaking, but the reality is probably that there's a lot of turmoil behind the scenes. I'm guessing the Malone firing caught several of them off guard, exacerbating whatever rifts may have been in place to begin with.

I agree, that stems from a lack of leadership starting at the top, which makes Vivek's silence and trips overseas less acceptable.

How much did we hear about culture when he bought the team? Now we're likely looking at a FO with a strong divide, with multiple rifts going up against each other, a climate btw which makes accountability far less likely. And who hired the GM, brought in Mullin and presides over all this? It's Vivek. Right now, he's nowhere to be seen.

Leadership, accountability, a clear vision and having a plan everyone is working towards starts at the top. Always has. When there's this much discord and dis-function throughout management, that rests on the President or CEO or owner, whether in sports or business.

As an aside, something I'm quite curious about is who are the "experts" Vivek consulted when he hired Malone, which he was ecstatic about. Seems both PDA and Mullin were against Malone for awhile, which tells me there's two groups of "experts" Vivek is getting advice from who come from opposite ends of the spectrum. Wonder what the former group thinks now. But a prime example of Vivek not really knowing what he's doing and is in over his head is that these two groups he's getting advice from strongly clash against one another. Someone he leaned on told him Malone would be a great hire. Then another group he leans on pushed for Malone's firing during our successful start. That's strong evidence that from our FO through Vivek and his "advisers" that multiple parts of this are working against each other, which of course creates the type of mess where we're once again a laugh stock with no clear path forward.

And it's atrocious leadership by the head honcho.

 

[Gtronic]

Yup...Well deserved.

For the first time ever I am no longer sticking up for my Kings. I am agreeing with all my friends who have been calling us a joke. What a mess. I still love this team and always will. But lets all call it what it is....a total mess.

And the Kings ownership owes the NBA some money. After the firing of couch I fought hard to cancel my NBA Season Pass. What a waste of a season.

 

[QoooooQ]

You shoot yourself in the foot just as you're getting up from the wheelchair. F. Now let's wait and see if they can blow off the other foot as well come summertime.

 

[funkykingston]

I can't disagree. SI sees what we all see - a team that was coming together, developing an identity and grinding out wins getting the wind knocked out of it by an indefensible firing. This is now yet another wasted season and I think the hard part for Kings fans is feeling the team is moving backwards from mediocre back to terrible.

It's the constant resetting of the clock. To feel that the team is finally moving in a positive direction only to see it go the other way means another season of "wait til next year". And that year will come with a new coach and a new system and we'll have to see if that moves the team forward or we reset the clock again. If it's the latter then I think you're looking at Cousins wanting out and a major reset likely occurring. Sacramento doesn't get the luxury of superstars forcing their way here. Things have to build slowly and we've gotten very good at reading the signs of whether things are getting better or worse.

Certainly I hope things turn around sooner than later but I don't have a ton of optimism that they will. And unfortunately it means my interest level has waned significantly. I watched a movie instead of the Nets game and I had the TV on in the background for the Warriors game to where I had to back up the third quarter to understand how the game went from close to out of reach so fast. Hate that it happened against my team but an amazing display by Klay Thompson. But the point is that I'm starting to tune out and trading anger for apathy. I'll always be a Kings fan, but I don't see the point of watching games right now.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It's hard to believe, isn't it?

I agree that it's pretty unbelievable that a coach would get fired over a quote - just a quote. But then again, from what you said following this, I don't think you believe that either.

As I posted in one of the PDA threads, they (PDA/Mullin/Bratz) flew to Vegas Dec 8th to urge the firing of Malone, the same day Malone's analytics is BS quote became public. The same exact day. If you believe Voison's timeline of events, of course. Which was told to her by Vivek himself.

I suspect there was a falling out dec 7th, which led to that quote. And they almost immediately ran to the owner to get Malone fired. I also strongly suspect if that's what Malone told the press, behind closed doors it was a whole lot more heated.

Obviously we don't really know what happened here and you're trying to piece it together from some snippets. But if you're right, then it would clearly be the falling out, and not the quote, that was the proximate cause of the firing.

Petty, juvenile, impulsive. Truly unbelievable. If it hadn't happened no one would believe it. Most of the NBA world still doesn't believe it.

I can't really agree with the adjectives I bolded there - at least to the extent that one can be certain they're applicable. If my employer tells me it's my job to water the lawn every day, and instead of doing that I tear out the lawn and put in a rock garden, it's not petty or juvenile of my employer to fire me over that, not even if it IS a really nice rock garden. Again this is obviously speculation, but it's built on the same sort of speculation about a falling out that you had above so I do think we can find some common ground here. And as far as impulsive goes - one might easily consider immediately turning around after a falling out and fast-tracking a firing to be impulsive. I can see that. But Malone was on the chopping block at least as early as the summer. Not only do we have the later reports that the FO sought out Gentry as an heir to the throne in the offseason, but the buzz came through the back channels over the summer that Malone was on thin ice and they were strongly considering firing him then. I thought that was shockingly silly at the time, and I hoped they wouldn't go through with it, but eventually they did. However, that was 4-5 months later, which if anything seems to be the opposite of impulsive. They gave Malone a lot of time. It wasn't just one bad meeting and Boom! he's fired the next day.

So yes, the mid-season timing of it was terrible. It looks bad and the players dealt with it extremely poorly. If Malone had to go, best would have been to let him go after this season. Better than midseason would have been a last-offseason firing. Mid-season was about the worst possible timing. But perhaps he forced their hand. Perhaps his analytics quote (and the fact that he posted it) is indicative of a fundamentally soured relationship with the FO. While I wouldn't call it insubordination in and of itself it might be the evidence of deep-seated insubordination on Malone's part. Again, obviously it's all speculation, but it's along the same lines of what you're speculating, I just read the FO's actions in response differently than you do.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well, I can't fit this all in a text, and I'm not going to call into the show, so I guess I'll just put this here. Maybe someone more dedicated than I am can relay it on my behalf:

Jason Ross is wrong. He is, in fact, loud wrong, and both his comparison and his analogy fail. First of all, he says that the grade is too low because there are eight teams with worse records that have higher grades. To start with, his math is wrong: there are only seven teams with worse records than the Kings. The Celtics have an identical record and, since they beat us, they'd have to reasonably be ranked ahead of us. And one of the teams with a worse record got the same grade. Of the six teams with worse records ranked ahead of us, I think it can be reasonably argued that two of them (Orlando and Utah) are trending in an upward direction, two of them (Indiana and Minnesota) have had at least two starters miss over half the season, and one (Philadelphia) is largely considered to be set up to be good down the line, and at least still plays hard every night. The only team with a worse record than us that doesn't deserve to have a better grade is the Knicks, and that's not a reason to raise our grade, it's a reason to lower theirs.

He also fails on his midterm analogy: he says that if you get a couple of A's and B's at the start of the semester, and then you get a couple of F's, that doesn't make your aggregate grade an F. Except that's not necessarily true. They could make your grade an F; it depends on how many F's there are, and how low they are. If you get graded on 41 assignments, and the first twenty-four consist of 9 A's, 9 B's and 6 C's, but the next 17 assignments are 1 A, 1 B, 3 C's, and 12 F's, and the 12 F's are all zeros, then that could, in fact, give you an F at the midterm.

 

[funkykingston]

I can't really agree with the adjectives I bolded there - at least to the extent that one can be certain they're applicable. If my employer tells me it's my job to water the lawn every day, and instead of doing that I tear out the lawn and put in a rock garden, it's not petty or juvenile of my employer to fire me over that, not even if it IS a really nice rock garden. Again this is obviously speculation, but it's built on the same sort of speculation about a falling out that you had above so I do think we can find some common ground here. And as far as impulsive goes - one might easily consider immediately turning around after a falling out and fast-tracking a firing to be impulsive. I can see that. But Malone was on the chopping block at least as early as the summer. Not only do we have the later reports that the FO sought out Gentry as an heir to the throne in the offseason, but the buzz came through the back channels over the summer that Malone was on thin ice and they were strongly considering firing him then. I thought that was shockingly silly at the time, and I hoped they wouldn't go through with it, but eventually they did. However, that was 4-5 months later, which if anything seems to be the opposite of impulsive. They gave Malone a lot of time. It wasn't just one bad meeting and Boom! he's fired the next day.

So yes, the mid-season timing of it was terrible. It looks bad and the players dealt with it extremely poorly. If Malone had to go, best would have been to let him go after this season. Better than midseason would have been a last-offseason firing. Mid-season was about the worst possible timing. But perhaps he forced their hand. Perhaps his analytics quote (and the fact that he posted it) is indicative of a fundamentally soured relationship with the FO. While I wouldn't call it insubordination in and of itself it might be the evidence of deep-seated insubordination on Malone's part. Again, obviously it's all speculation, but it's along the same lines of what you're speculating, I just read the FO's actions in response differently than you do.

As time goes by what you've said is pretty much how I see things. There's really no other explanation than a falling out based on a fundamental difference in view.

But here are my issues with it:

(1) I'm not at all certain that Vivek sided with the right guy. The exact same roster has played much more poorly under Corbin. And at the end of the day D'Alessandro may have constructed a roster that won't win any more games than under the last year of the Maloofs and last year where the roster was completely overhauled during the season. It seems the guy producing results was the one that was fired. The argument of "the team's success to start the season wasn't sustainable" seems to get thrown around but there's no evidence of that and Malone was fired before we got to find out.

(2) If there is ANY truth to the rumor that PDA/Vivek tried to get Gentry on the staff as an assistant coach so they'd be able to easily fire Malone then I find that completely underhanded and gutless. If that's the case they should have fired him last summer or sucked it up until season's end. If D'Alessandro really thought Malone's early success was smoke and mirrors then it would have been born out by season's end and there wouldn't have been such negative fan response or upheaval to the team.

And to Slim's points, I taught high school (physics & chemistry) for seven years - part of it IS grading on improvement. I would occasionally give breaks to kids that doubled down and made progress despite slow starts. For someone who went the other way (and teaching seniors it happened more often than it should) I cut them no breaks grade wise. Because they showed me early on that they COULD do well only to later show me that they didn't care or didn't have their priorities in order. The Kings have earned an F by wasting their season with no reasons given (so far) to hope for more success going forward.

 

[Glenn]

I agree, that stems from a lack of leadership starting at the top, which makes Vivek's silence and trips overseas less acceptable.

How much did we hear about culture when he bought the team? Now we're likely looking at a FO with a strong divide, with multiple rifts going up against each other, a climate btw which makes accountability far less likely. And who hired the GM, brought in Mullin and presides over all this? It's Vivek. Right now, he's nowhere to be seen.

Leadership, accountability, a clear vision and having a plan everyone is working towards starts at the top. Always has. When there's this much discord and dis-function throughout management, that rests on the President or CEO or owner, whether in sports or business.

As an aside, something I'm quite curious about is who are the "experts" Vivek consulted when he hired Malone, which he was ecstatic about. Seems both PDA and Mullin were against Malone for awhile, which tells me there's two groups of "experts" Vivek is getting advice from who come from opposite ends of the spectrum. Wonder what the former group thinks now. But a prime example of Vivek not really knowing what he's doing and is in over his head is that these two groups he's getting advice from strongly clash against one another. Someone he leaned on told him Malone would be a great hire. Then another group he leans on pushed for Malone's firing during our successful start. That's strong evidence that from our FO through Vivek and his "advisers" that multiple parts of this are working against each other, which of course creates the type of mess where we're once again a laugh stock with no clear path forward.

And it's atrocious leadership by the head honcho.

Absolutely. I do not wish to start an argument but the heart of the matter is the silent message Vivek is sending to the Kings and the fans that when they are in the middle of a crisis, he is overseas. I hate the word optics when it is used by politicians but no matter what his rights are, the optics suck. What I see is that the leader of the Kings, the only person with total control of everything, is missing. Certainly he can do what he wishes and I am sure that being at a meeting in Switzerland and accompanying our President to India are huge honors but to me ........ I said TO ME ......... my only concern is with the Kings. He probably can do nothing of substance but a visit to the locker room before a game might make the players feel wanted; important even. As of now, I can imagine that they feel unimportant. In some ways, this may be how the fans feel.

 

[Chubbs]

I agree that it's pretty unbelievable that a coach would get fired over a quote - just a quote. But then again, from what you said following this, I don't think you believe that either.



Obviously we don't really know what happened here and you're trying to piece it together from some snippets. But if you're right, then it would clearly be the falling out, and not the quote, that was the proximate cause of the firing.



I can't really agree with the adjectives I bolded there - at least to the extent that one can be certain they're applicable. If my employer tells me it's my job to water the lawn every day, and instead of doing that I tear out the lawn and put in a rock garden, it's not petty or juvenile of my employer to fire me over that, not even if it IS a really nice rock garden. Again this is obviously speculation, but it's built on the same sort of speculation about a falling out that you had above so I do think we can find some common ground here. And as far as impulsive goes - one might easily consider immediately turning around after a falling out and fast-tracking a firing to be impulsive. I can see that. But Malone was on the chopping block at least as early as the summer. Not only do we have the later reports that the FO sought out Gentry as an heir to the throne in the offseason, but the buzz came through the back channels over the summer that Malone was on thin ice and they were strongly considering firing him then. I thought that was shockingly silly at the time, and I hoped they wouldn't go through with it, but eventually they did. However, that was 4-5 months later, which if anything seems to be the opposite of impulsive. They gave Malone a lot of time. It wasn't just one bad meeting and Boom! he's fired the next day.

So yes, the mid-season timing of it was terrible. It looks bad and the players dealt with it extremely poorly. If Malone had to go, best would have been to let him go after this season. Better than midseason would have been a last-offseason firing. Mid-season was about the worst possible timing. But perhaps he forced their hand. Perhaps his analytics quote (and the fact that he posted it) is indicative of a fundamentally soured relationship with the FO. While I wouldn't call it insubordination in and of itself it might be the evidence of deep-seated insubordination on Malone's part. Again, obviously it's all speculation, but it's along the same lines of what you're speculating, I just read the FO's actions in response differently than you do.

I don't disagree that this wasn't over a quote. But I'd be shocked if there wasn't a huge argument leading to that quote. As I said.

The same day the quote comes out they run to daddy to fire the mean old coach who didn't buy their heaping pile of crap. The coach was right, btw. If anyone cares anymore. It was a battle to see who'd be fired first. The coach who likely told them the roster they gave him is utter crap. Wouldn't shock me if Malone dared them to find a coach who could win with this team without cousins. Corbin hasn't done it. Not once. Heck, Corbin can't win WITH cousins.

Speculation of course, but something happened between the front office and Malone in early December that led to Malone himself being near certain he'd be fired. And truthfully, It sounds like there were many arguments up till that point.

Both Vivek and Voison gave the impression something terrible happened (in the minds of PDA/Mullin/Bratz) and the firing had to happen immediately. I am basing this particular pet theory on that article with the talk of the emergency trip to Vegas.

This team is talented enough for a near .500 record. 38-42 wins. No playoffs, but progress. That's looking extremely unlikely. I'm wondering at this point if they can drop all the way to a bottom 3 record. Continuing the 0.250 winning percentage that has occurred since 9-6, this team is on pace for 25-26 wins.

I'm just not buying any given reason for the firing. With the lack of a reasonable reason being given, we are left to speculate. I'm sure insubordination is at the root. I've been saying that since the day he got fired. And that quote and whatever led to it was the last straw.

What they did is impulsive in NBA time scale terms. Just cause they were thinking of firing him months earlier doesn't mean they weren't completely wrong (we agree on that I think). Thinking about doing something incredibly stupid for 4-5 months doesn't make it less stupid when it finally happens. Perhaps less impulsive, but still stupid. I disagree strongly that one season plus 24 games is a lot of time.

I know I made some questionable conclusions, but I think at the core we all agree. Whatever terms we apply to it can be debated.

I hadn't done the math, but wow. 25 wins. And it feels like this could bottom out even worse than that, doesn't it? A top 3 pick might in fact be possible. Just a couple injuries to Rudy or boogie and we'd slide even more quickly in the standings. It'll be hard to finish below minny, Philly, or NY, but we can totally catch the lakers.

Irrelevant fact, but if you add up the current losing streaks of sac, la, Orlando, minny and philly, it stands at 31 losses in a row. Those last place teams aren't messing around.

 

[Larry David]

F.

At a glance: “Pointless self-sabotage” isn’t what any NBA team strives for, but that’s exactly where the Kings find themselves after a disastrous turn of events. Everything was going along smoothly – the franchise put together its best month in years in November – before new owner Vivek Ranadive cashed in some of his goodwill for saving the team from relocation for a vanity project.

SI nails it. This is what happened. If you disagree, IMO, you are kidding yourself.

Debating how much blame should be apportioned between PDA and Vivek and/or clinging to the notion that our team allowed everybody's expectations to soar for a month, before embarking on a campaign to intentionally tank; thereby scaring away casual fans in drove and burning season ticket holders that came back during the last two summers is both a good thing and reflects competence ... I think you are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. At a fundamental level, the team has bad ownership and/or management and no small market NBA can ultimately overcome that until it changes.

 

[IfAt1st]

But perhaps he forced their hand. Perhaps his analytics quote (and the fact that he posted it) is indicative of a fundamentally soured relationship with the FO. While I wouldn't call it insubordination in and of itself it might be the evidence of deep-seated insubordination on Malone's part. Again, obviously it's all speculation, but it's along the same lines of what you're speculating, I just read the FO's actions in response differently than you do.

"Insubordination" is a term that authority figures throw around when their subordinates are smarter and better at something than they are.

It's an excuse to ignore how wrong they are, and how right the subordinate is.
It's what they hide behind when they can't win an argument based on facts and reality.

If Malone was "insubordinate" to PDA/Mullin, then he should be getting praise from every Kings fan and should have gotten (and be getting) support from everyone inside the organization who knows how to win!
Considering how absurdly wrong PDA and Vivek have PROVEN to be about everything, then it seems obvious that Malone knew more than they do; how to make a winning product.

And there are many substantiated reports about the front office pushing insane basketball ideas on the court, from cherry-picking to faster pace to Royce White, etc.
So Malone having a "soured relationship" with the front office shows that he was just doing his job, and looking out for the team on the court and defending them against the wrong-headed crackpot intrusive ideas the front office was demanding.

How dare you say that souring was solely Malone's fault.
That was the fault of the whackjob front office pushing for destructive ideas they have no justifiable business reason insisting on, and their inability to be reasonable and work with Malone.

 

[Glenn]

I don't remember where I read this but it may have been in the article from Voisin about the emergency plane ride to Las Vegas. Malone had quit talking to PDA for months. He was not returning Vivek's text messages. BTW, I have a pet peeve about text messages. I figure if a person had a serious need to contact me, they would use their voice. But then I am old.

None of that explains the emergency plane ride.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

"Insubordination" is a term that authority figures throw around when their subordinates are smarter and better at something than they are.

It's an excuse to ignore how wrong they are, and how right the subordinate is.
It's what they hide behind when they can't win an argument based on facts and reality.

I'm not saying that this is never true, but anyone who thinks that it's always true has never, in their lives, had a job where they were put in charge of someone who is a genuine *******.

 

[funkykingston]

I'm not saying that this is never true, but anyone who thinks that it's always true has never, in their lives, had a job where they were put in charge of someone who is a genuine *******.

Are speaking here as someone who has been in charge or as a genuine *******?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Are speaking here as someone who has been in charge or as a genuine *******?

Yes.

 

[Glenn]

Are speaking here as someone who has been in charge or as a genuine *******?

Both????

 

[Ugolino]

Well, I can't fit this all in a text, and I'm not going to call into the show, so I guess I'll just put this here. Maybe someone more dedicated than I am can relay it on my behalf:

Jason Ross is wrong. He is, in fact, loud wrong, and both his comparison and his analogy fail. First of all, he says that the grade is too low because there are eight teams with worse records that have higher grades. To start with, his math is wrong: there are only seven teams with worse records than the Kings. The Celtics have an identical record and, since they beat us, they'd have to reasonably be ranked ahead of us. And one of the teams with a worse record got the same grade. Of the six teams with worse records ranked ahead of us, I think it can be reasonably argued that two of them (Orlando and Utah) are trending in an upward direction, two of them (Indiana and Minnesota) have had at least two starters miss over half the season, and one (Philadelphia) is largely considered to be set up to be good down the line, and at least still plays hard every night. The only team with a worse record than us that doesn't deserve to have a better grade is the Knicks, and that's not a reason to raise our grade, it's a reason to lower theirs.

He also fails on his midterm analogy: he says that if you get a couple of A's and B's at the start of the semester, and then you get a couple of F's, that doesn't make your aggregate grade an F. Except that's not necessarily true. They could make your grade an F; it depends on how many F's there are, and how low they are. If you get graded on 41 assignments, and the first twenty-four consist of 9 A's, 9 B's and 6 C's, but the next 17 assignments are 1 A, 1 B, 3 C's, and 12 F's, and the 12 F's are all zeros, then that could, in fact, give you an F at the midterm.

I agree, the grade is somewhat subjective and not just based on 'datapoints'. You can't quantify all the damage resulting from the 180 degree turn in direction and subsequent downward slide. Who the hell is going to want to play here now? That's the kind of metric that doesn't show up on a grading scheme.

 

[rainmaker]

"Insubordination" is a term that authority figures throw around when their subordinates are smarter and better at something than they are.

That's true many times and the utter hypocrisy here is that going off Vivek saying in Sept that this season is clearly, point blank about wins and losses, and that Malone was the only one who took that seriously, is that the real insubordination came from PDA who decided pace/style meant more than winning, then put a whale size hole in the hull of our ship.

If people are going to bring up insubordination, then quit looking at it through tunnel vision and stop acting like it only applies to the Malone vs PDA dynamic. Insubordination applies from the top down and applies to the PDA vs Vivek dynamic. PDA went against Vivek's win/loss stance and it's clear as day.

And, it's Vivek's fault for not holding him to it.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

"Insubordination" is a term that authority figures throw around when their subordinates are smarter and better at something than they are.

It's an excuse to ignore how wrong they are, and how right the subordinate is.
It's what they hide behind when they can't win an argument based on facts and reality.

Merriam-Webster says:

in·sub·or·di·nate
adjective \ˌin(t)-sə-ˈbȯr-də-nət, -ˈbȯrd-nət\
: not obeying authority : refusing to follow orders

I'd appreciate if you don't sully my admittedly rampant speculation by changing the definitions of the words I am using.

How dare you say that souring was solely Malone's fault.

I didn't.