Shooting Guard Rankings
- Thread starter dukeswh
- Start date
slugking50
All-Star
Safely said Im not a Bryant fan. But to say hes not clutch is crazy. They man used to make a living killing us 6-8 times a year for crying out loud. Everytime they needed him to hit a shot... He made it dag nabbit. If I were to guess Id say Bryant probably has 20 game winners. And thats probably conservative.
KingKong
Starter
dukeswh said:Lucky?? Don't think so. I would even say that for the last couple of seasons he is the most "clutch" NBA player, especially in the playoffs. And it all started when Divac....... agghhhh! Don't want to remember anymore!!!!!!
Hence the "
". I was actually using what Vlade said: "That was a lucky shot."
O
ONEZERO
Guest
tyrant said:
people get too caught up in mcgradys 13 points in 30 secs miracle. the guy is not clutch. kobes the best player in the league? couldve at least made it to the playoffs, dont u think?
jacobdrj
Bench
IMHO at this point, T-Mac=Kobe
Where Kobe is on his way down (not that he will never make the POs again or anything like that, but I highly doubt that he will ever win another ring) and T-Mac is on the way up with a new team in a new city.
Kobe somehow got a rep for being a good defender. I have seen short spurts here and there, but he is no 1st team selection. T-Mac used to be a defencive specialist, but regressed on that side of the floor in Orlando. I think under Gundy#2 he showed his amazing defencive prowess over long periods of time.
Only difference is that Kobe has played with Shaq, and to this point, T-Mac has only gotten to play with Yao, for 1 year.
Personaly, I think of T-Mac, Artest, Carter, and Perce as Small Farwards.
Where Kobe is on his way down (not that he will never make the POs again or anything like that, but I highly doubt that he will ever win another ring) and T-Mac is on the way up with a new team in a new city.
Kobe somehow got a rep for being a good defender. I have seen short spurts here and there, but he is no 1st team selection. T-Mac used to be a defencive specialist, but regressed on that side of the floor in Orlando. I think under Gundy#2 he showed his amazing defencive prowess over long periods of time.
Only difference is that Kobe has played with Shaq, and to this point, T-Mac has only gotten to play with Yao, for 1 year.
Personaly, I think of T-Mac, Artest, Carter, and Perce as Small Farwards.
Yeah, I forgot about T-Mac being an SF in my post... just got caught up in reading this the link/thread I guess.
BTW, Kobe's been named to the all-defensive 1st team in 99-00, 02-03, 03-04, and to all-defensive 2nd team in 00-01, 01-02.
T-Mac/Pierce/Artest/Jefferson all are SFs, but can play SG. Carter's vice versa.
BTW, Kobe's been named to the all-defensive 1st team in 99-00, 02-03, 03-04, and to all-defensive 2nd team in 00-01, 01-02.
T-Mac/Pierce/Artest/Jefferson all are SFs, but can play SG. Carter's vice versa.
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jacobdrj
Bench
Kings113 said:
I know, shocking isn't it? I think those selections have alot to do with the fact that he was in LA (again, he showed that he could play D, but never for more than a couple minutes). Certainly not a bad defender, but would you take him (on a defencive team) over Bowen, Artest, Prince, Marion, or even T-Mac? I wouldn't. I am sure I am forgetting some people from those earlier selections as well. I just don't see Kobe as that great a defender.
tyrant
Starter
my asessment is on the fact that no player in the league can hold kobe under 25 points per game. the guy is a monster. only duncan and garnett can put as much talent and skill on defense and still be just as effective on offense. i said t-mac is a close second not because i think he's clutch but because his game is just all of that and a sack of chips. the guy is smooth. former league leader in scorer
tyrant
Starter
kobe is clutch. he's not like tim duncan. people say duncan is the best in the game, but tim duncan can choke a game away when he's on the foul line (isn't he like 65% or something)? and alot of times manu or parker or horry pull him out the fire with a clutch shot or drive to the basket. kobe is money from the free throw line.
tyrant said:
Well, actually his (Duncan's) career record from the line is 69.2%, which may not be good but isn't the worst of the big men. If you're going to compare players, you might consider comparing guards to guards and big men to big men.
This next part is probably going to break your heart, but if you consult www.82games.com, you're going to be really disappointed about your assessment of Kobe Bryant.
http://www.82games.com/teams04.htm
According to that site, Bryant isn't even in the Top 10 NBA players based on their on court vs. off court plus/minus discrepancy during the regular season.
For 2004-2005, Tim Duncan was first, with a on court rating of +15.1, an off court rating of -1.4, for a net of +16.6.
Jason Kidd was second with +16.
Manu Ginobili was third with +15.5
4. Dirk Nowitzki ... +15.3.
5. Steve Nash ... +15.
6. Elton Brand ... +14.7
7. Shawn Marion ... +14.5
8. Tayshaun Prince ... +12.8
9. Stephon Marbury ... +12.0
10. Rip Hamilton ... +11.9
For the record, the last time Bryant made the list was in 2002-2003, when he finished right behind Shaq. Shaq had a +11.7 for 6th place, and Kobe trailed in 7th with +10.3.
The idea that Kobe is money from the line, therefore he's much more clutch is just silly. While the stats above don't actually indicate "clutch," they do provide pretty strong evidence for how important someone's presence is on the court. In that regard, it seems pretty clear that Kobe is nowhere near Duncan.
Stojakovic16
Prospect
no its suppose to be like this:
1. t-mac
2. ray allen
3. allen iverson
4. kobe
5.vince carter
1. t-mac
2. ray allen
3. allen iverson
4. kobe
5.vince carter
Gargamel
Starter
ONEZERO said:
99 QF, Gm1 (v HOU): Pippen tried to dribble out clock in final seconds with LA down by 1. Kobe stripped him, Lakers went up by 2 on that possession and won by 1.
00 SF, Gm2 (v PHX): Hit jumper over Kidd with 1 sec left to win gm by 1 pt.
00 CF, Gm3 (@ POR): Blocked Sabonis' game tying layup at buzzer. Lakers win 93-91, Pippen assaults stack of towels on his way to locker room.
00 CF, Gm7 (v POR): In final minute with the score tied, Kobe hit a go-ahead 2 ptr and on the next possession, broke Pippen off the dribble and lobbed to Shaq for the game-sealing dunk.
00 Finals, Gm4 (@ IND): In OT, with Shaq fouled out, he took LA's offense over hitting 4-4, including the game-winning putback with 2 secs left.
02 QF, Gm3 (@ POR): With LA down by 4 at 17 secs, Kobe hit a 3 to cut lead to 1 just as Snapper Jones says, "Kobe doesn't hit late game threes that often. The Lakers need to find something for Shaq." He then drew Horry's man from the corner and dished to him for the game-winner.
02 SF, Gm4 (@ SA): Scored the game-winning putback with 5 secs left. He took down an offensive board with his left hand over Robinson before the shot.
02 Finals, Gm3 (@ NJ): While up by a point in the final minute, Kobe scored jumper with Kenyon Martin literally putting his hand over Kobe's eyes. Seconds later with score tied, he hit floater to seal game.
04 QF, Gm4 (@ HOU): Stole ball and hit go-ahead layup with Lakers down by 1 with 1 min in OT. Kobe scores game-winning 3 pt play with 40 secs. Kelvin Cato took him to the floor by the wrist of his non-shooting hand during the score.
04 CF, Gm5 (@ SA): Hit go-ahead jumper with 10 seconds left prior to Duncan's shot.
04 Finals, Gm2 (v DET): Hit game-tying 3 to send gm to OT.
REG SEASON:
1/19/98 vs ORL: Game-winning 3 pt play with 7 secs left. Tapped in missed free throw of his own man and was fouled.
4/20/99 @ GS: 3 ft tap at buzzer to send gm to OT (he actually tapped in a tap of Horry from an intentionally missed free throw)
11/16/00 @ SAC: Hit 3 ptr to send game to OT with 2 secs left. Scored 8 of LA's 10 in OT for 2 pt win.
2/17/01 vs PHX: Game-winning floater with 30 secs left.
3/15/01 @ DET: Scored 24 pts in 4th and OT. Hit jumper with foot on arc to send game to OT with 2 secs left. Hit game-winning shot with 30 secs left in OT.
1/2/02 @ DEN: Game-winning jumper with 55 secs left.
2/22/02 @ CHA: Game-winning jumper at buzzer against George Lynch.
11/3/02 vs POR: http://tinyurl.com/dqrow
12/6/02 vs DAL: Scored 21 pts in 4th quarter to lead 27 pt comeback, hit game-winning jumper with 8 secs left.
12/22/02 @ TOR: Stole ball from Morris Peterson and hit game-winning layup in final 10 secs of OT.
4/4/03 @ MEM: Game-winning jumper at buzzer against Shane Battier.
12/19/03 vs DEN: Game-winning jumper at buzzer against Jon Barry.
3/15/04 vs ORL: http://tinyurl.com/aejpm
3/21/04 vs MIL: Hit game-winning 3 ptr with 25 secs left in OT.
4/14/04 @ POR: Hit 3 ptr with less than a sec left to send game to OT (after losing pivot foot due to Ruben Patterson's defense). Hit turning fadeaway 3 ptr over Nazr Muhammed to win game at buzzer of 2nd OT.
11/30/04 @ MIL: Blocked Michael Redd's game-tying dunk with one hand in final seconds.
3/12/05 @ CHA: Game-winning jumper with 0.9 secs left.
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acisking
Bench
lol...not a big kobe fan at all...but i think kings fans are biased against kobe because of the lakers and kings rivalry personally...too say that he isn't clutch is just ridiculous..i can hardly think of another player who i'd rather have take a last second shot (other than maybe bibby or robert horry)...solid post gargamel
BibityBobtyBoom
Bench
you can't think of more clutch? can you think about ray allen? Ray allen can beat teams by himself in the clutch. He is a game changing player and deserves to be over kobe and tmac.
D-Mass
Starter
Can't agree with you there. I'd take Kobe ANY DAY over Allen. He's more talented, has better natural ability, can create ANY shot he wants, is better defensively, and has WAY more proven playoff experience. Allen might be a good shooter, but he has half the impact on a game that Kobe does. And are you saying Kobe and T-Mac aren't game-changers????
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BibityBobtyBoom
Bench
we aren't talking about pure athleticism, if we are then those guys have allen beat, but we are talking about clutch. Allen is clutch, tmac, eh, not so much.
T
thesanityannex
Guest
You could take Kobe over Allen, but who would you get to play with him?D-Mass said:
BibityBobtyBoom
Bench
somebody brought up the most clutch so i was also replying to them, not just basing it on the title of the thread.
T
thesanityannex
Guest
The only people who would want to play with him are guys who don't mind touching the ball....................waterboys, towelboys, scorekeepers, trainers, etc.Gargamel said:
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