Scott Perry is the new GM of Sacramento Kings

[Joshyjosh31]

For 25-30 games a year, based on his history, sure. What about the other 2/3 of the season?

Keegan steps up or we get a good pick I say that’s better than being the 12th seed next 2-3 years?!?

 

[Warhawk]

Keegan steps up or we get a good pick I say that’s better than being the 12th seed next 2-3 years?!?

If Keegan steps up like that we don't really need Zion then, do we?

If we send off a boatload of assets and pay the man what he wants, he better take us to the promised land. Not "picks". And he certainly can't do that on the bench for 2/3 of most seasons.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

If Keegan steps up like that we don't really need Zion then, do we?

If we send off a boatload of assets and pay the man what he wants, he better take us to the promised land. Not "picks". And he certainly can't do that on the bench for 2/3 of most seasons.

Part of the reason I like the idea of trading for Zion is he is already secured for three more seasons, with each of those being non-guaranteed. They become guaranteed after he meets/is below a stated weight limit and it becomes more and more guaranteed the more games he plays. His Spotrac page explains it in depth:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/31558/zion-williamson

Like I said, the reason I would prefer him is because he is, to me, the highest ceiling guy available that the Kings could get and we have the insurance of the contract not being completely guaranteed, so we won't be "stuck" with him.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

If Keegan steps up like that we don't really need Zion then, do we?

If we send off a boatload of assets and pay the man what he wants, he better take us to the promised land. Not "picks". And he certainly can't do that on the bench for 2/3 of most seasons.

I think I'm bullish on Keegan, as are a lot of people on the board, but "better than peak Zion" is the most ambitious projection I've ever heard.

I don't think there are any more plausible ideas for "taking us to the promised land"

Zion is a win win in the 3 year time frame( so long as we keep our picks). If he breaks down, our picks become 10 times more valuable. If he's somehow healthy, then that will be a lot of fun to watch

 

[Joshyjosh31]

If Keegan steps up like that we don't really need Zion then, do we?

If we send off a boatload of assets and pay the man what he wants, he better take us to the promised land. Not "picks". And he certainly can't do that on the bench for 2/3 of most seasons.

Keegan at his ceiling isn’t even a number two on a serious team him stepping up shouldn’t impact us targeting a better player

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

I think I'm bullish on Keegan, as are a lot of people on the board, but "better than peak Zion" is the most ambitious projection I've ever heard.

I don't think there are any more plausible ideas for "taking us to the promised land"

Zion is a win win in the 3 year time frame( so long as we keep our picks). If he breaks down, our picks become 10 times more valuable. If he's somehow healthy, then that will be a lot of fun to watch

If this sounds reckless, keep in mind we are already betting the team on Zach Lavine's health

 

[hrdboild]

no one is saying the other stuff doesn’t matter but when you play sports at a high level little things like length matter a lot. The difference that separate good and great are small. Length is one of those differences. It’s not a surprise our two best most versatile defenders are two of our longest players in Keon and Keegan.

I'll concede your point that they matter a lot. I'll take the longer wingspan every day if it comes attached to a competitor who plays both ends of the court. But then I'll also re-emphasize that those measurables don't mean a lick if you don't care enough to work hard, don't pay attention to scouting reports and learn your opponent's tendencies, can't process defensive sets at game speed, and do things like jump on every ball fake where your athleticism takes you out of position. There's a happy medium somewhere of having good NBA size for your position and also the mental acuity to know how to use it. Looking at the combine results spreadsheet is no substitute for actually scouting players playing 5 on 5 basketball.

 

[Warhawk]

Part of the reason I like the idea of trading for Zion is he is already secured for three more seasons, with each of those being non-guaranteed. They become guaranteed after he meets/is below a stated weight limit and it becomes more and more guaranteed the more games he plays. His Spotrac page explains it in depth:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/31558/zion-williamson

Like I said, the reason I would prefer him is because he is, to me, the highest ceiling guy available that the Kings could get and we have the insurance of the contract not being completely guaranteed, so we won't be "stuck" with him.

So we are trading significant assets to get a player making $39 to $44 million per year just so we could cut him if he can't get off the bench or watch his weight? Are you serious? Why give up those assets for a player who can't play consistently or who may be cut?

I think I'm bullish on Keegan, as are a lot of people on the board, but "better than peak Zion" is the most ambitious projection I've ever heard.

I don't think there are any more plausible ideas for "taking us to the promised land"

Zion is a win win in the 3 year time frame( so long as we keep our picks). If he breaks down, our picks become 10 times more valuable. If he's somehow healthy, then that will be a lot of fun to watch

He said it, not me. I was just responding to another post. I never put Keegan in that category. See below.

Keegan steps up or we get a good pick I say that’s better than being the 12th seed next 2-3 years?!?

Keegan at his ceiling isn’t even a number two on a serious team him stepping up shouldn’t impact us targeting a better player

You are literally the one who said Keegan would have to fill that role in a previous post (see above).

 

[Joshyjosh31]

So we are trading significant assets to get a player making $39 to $44 million per year just so we could cut him if he can't get off the bench or watch his weight? Are you serious? Why give up those assets for a player who can't play consistently or who may be cut?


He said it, not me. I was just responding to another post. I never put Keegan in that category. See below.



You are literally the one who said Keegan would have to fill that role in a previous post (see above).

I’m saying Keegan steps up cause he’d have more shots and a bigger role I’m not saying he’d be some star.

What’s your alternative to Zion? Besides going through the draft we’re gonna be picking 9-12 if moves aren’t made

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

So we are trading significant assets to get a player making $39 to $44 million per year just so we could cut him if he can't get off the bench or watch his weight? Are you serious? Why give up those assets for a player who can't play consistently or who may be cut?


He said it, not me. I was just responding to another post. I never put Keegan in that category. See below.



You are literally the one who said Keegan would have to fill that role in a previous post (see above).

The whole point is to raise our ceiling because, as constructed, this team is a play-in exit at best. If you have Zion as your best player, you can be a competitive Playoff team. And I’m saying out of the group of Zion, Trae, Ja and LaMelo (stars rumored to potentially be placed on the trading block this summer), I prefer Zion because his contract situation is the most team-friendly.

I doubt we’d give up major assets. First off, LaVine and Sabonis aren’t great assets to begin with. Both are worse than a healthy Zion and are paid more. I don’t think a ton of draft capital would be involved for a guy who has had a few injury-ridden seasons. I acknowledge it’s high risk/high reward, and it could very well end up going poorly for us. But with Vivek basically refusing to rebuild, I’d much rather see a big swing for the fences than stay pat and guarantee mediocrity.

Let’s say it’s a Sabonis for Zion swap.

?/Carter
Ellis/Monk
Murray/?/Crawford
Zion/LaRavia
Valanciunas/?/Jones

You then have your MLE, DDR and LaVine at your disposal to fill in the gaps for a starting PG and a backup forward + center. I much prefer that to what we have on paper right now.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

The whole point is to raise our ceiling because, as constructed, this team is a play-in exit at best. If you have Zion as your best player, you can be a competitive Playoff team. And I’m saying out of the group of Zion, Trae, Ja and LaMelo (stars rumored to potentially be placed on the trading block this summer), I prefer Zion because his contract situation is the most team-friendly.

I doubt we’d give up major assets. First off, LaVine and Sabonis aren’t great assets to begin with. Both are worse than a healthy Zion and are paid more. I don’t think a ton of draft capital would be involved for a guy who has had a few injury-ridden seasons. I acknowledge it’s high risk/high reward, and it could very well end up going poorly for us. But with Vivek basically refusing to rebuild, I’d much rather see a big swing for the fences than stay pat and guarantee mediocrity.

Let’s say it’s a Sabonis for Zion swap.

?/Carter
Ellis/Monk
Murray/?/Crawford
Zion/LaRavia
Valanciunas/?/Jones

You then have your MLE, DDR and LaVine at your disposal to fill in the gaps for a starting PG and a backup forward + center. I much prefer that to what we have on paper right now.

I don’t even think we’re a top 11 team next season if our best players are Sabonis, Lavine, and Keegan. Portland, San Antonio, and Dallas will all be better and teams ahead of us aren’t getting worse.

I’d start Monk at pg he’d be fine with Keegan/Ellis backing him and a Monk/Zion pick and roll would be absolute cinema. We could use Derozan to get a defensive center, hell I’d give Utah two first for Kessler dudes an all nba level defender

 

[Warhawk]

I’m saying Keegan steps up cause he’d have more shots and a bigger role I’m not saying he’d be some star.

What’s your alternative to Zion? Besides going through the draft we’re gonna be picking 9-12 if moves aren’t made

My alternative to Zion is not trading for Zion.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

My alternative to Zion is not trading for Zion.

Because you're satisfied with the performance of the team as it is, and/or because you're predicting that the team will organically grow from building chemistry/stability?

I think that given we're mostly vets at this point, we're more likely headed in the stagnation direction than the grown direction with the current roster. If the team could win, why didn't they do it last year, when Zach was as healthy as he's ever been.

 

[Warhawk]

The whole point is to raise our ceiling because, as constructed, this team is a play-in exit at best. If you have Zion as your best player, you can be a competitive Playoff team. And I’m saying out of the group of Zion, Trae, Ja and LaMelo (stars rumored to potentially be placed on the trading block this summer), I prefer Zion because his contract situation is the most team-friendly.

I doubt we’d give up major assets. First off, LaVine and Sabonis aren’t great assets to begin with. Both are worse than a healthy Zion and are paid more. I don’t think a ton of draft capital would be involved for a guy who has had a few injury-ridden seasons. I acknowledge it’s high risk/high reward, and it could very well end up going poorly for us. But with Vivek basically refusing to rebuild, I’d much rather see a big swing for the fences than stay pat and guarantee mediocrity.

Let’s say it’s a Sabonis for Zion swap.

?/Carter
Ellis/Monk
Murray/?/Crawford
Zion/LaRavia
Valanciunas/?/Jones

You then have your MLE, DDR and LaVine at your disposal to fill in the gaps for a starting PG and a backup forward + center. I much prefer that to what we have on paper right now.

A player stuck to the bench, by definition, does not raise the ceiling of your team.

Exactly how many playoff games has Zion played in, again?

You doubt we'd give up major assets? You mean like Sabonis, an all-star who plays about 72 games a year, including when injured, and gets double-doubles falling out of bed (he has averaged a double-double for his career)? The one who makes our team's offense go?

I'm not saying he's got some of the talents that can make Zion special when he plays. But Zion also doesn't play much. He just doesn't. What's the use in having a very expensive Ferrari if it's in the shop all the time?

Everything is predicated on the "if healthy" portion of the statement that is doing an AWFUL lot of work there.

You clearly state the major problem (bolded) and yet refuse to acknowledge the devastating impact it would have on our team, for years, if we did this.

 

[Warhawk]

Because you're satisfied with the performance of the team as it is, and/or because you're predicting that the team will organically grow from building chemistry/stability?

I think that given we're mostly vets at this point, we're more likely headed in the stagnation direction than the grown direction with the current roster. If the team could win, why didn't they do it last year, when Zach was as healthy as he's ever been.

No. I'm saying don't trade for Zion.

I really don't know how much clearer that could be.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

A player stuck to the bench, by definition, does not raise the ceiling of your team.

Exactly how many playoff games has Zion played in, again?

Eh, I don't think playoff performances really put Sabonis in the best light...

You doubt we'd give up major assets? You mean like Sabonis, an all-star who plays about 72 games a year, including when injured, and gets double-doubles falling out of bed (he has averaged a double-double for his career)? The one who makes our team's offense go?

I'm not saying he's got some of the talents that can make Zion special when he plays. But Zion also doesn't play much. He just doesn't. What's the use in having a very expensive Ferrari if it's in the shop all the time?

The NBA is entertaining because it's a competition. You have a Ferrari because you can't win a race with a sensible daily-driver compact. Participation is not something to be celebrated at the NBA level

 

[Warhawk]

Eh, I don't think playoff performances really put Sabonis in the best light...

The NBA is entertaining because it's a competition. You have a Ferrari because you can't win a race with a sensible daily-driver compact. Participation is not something to be celebrated at the NBA level

I didn't say it did, but for the "superstar" that Zion is he's never even gotten his team to the playoffs. That was my point.

Hard to compete when you are on the bench. That, again, is the point. And comparing Sabonis to a "daily-driver compact" is downright silly. He's an all-star.

Edit - a more accurate statement would be he's never played in the play-in/playoffs. But since this post was already quoted, I'm not going to revise the statement in retrospect.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

No. I'm saying don't trade for Zion.

I really don't know how much clearer that could be.

Just asking for an alternative name to Zion..

A player stuck to the bench, by definition, does not raise the ceiling of your team.

Exactly how many playoff games has Zion played in, again?

You doubt we'd give up major assets? You mean like Sabonis, an all-star who plays about 72 games a year, including when injured, and gets double-doubles falling out of bed (he has averaged a double-double for his career)? The one who makes our team's offense go?

I'm not saying he's got some of the talents that can make Zion special when he plays. But Zion also doesn't play much. He just doesn't. What's the use in having a very expensive Ferrari if it's in the shop all the time?

Everything is predicated on the "if healthy" portion of the statement that is doing an AWFUL lot of work there.

You clearly state the major problem (bolded) and yet refuse to acknowledge the devastating impact it would have on our team, for years, if we did this.

Sabonis is barley an all star literally made it cause we had a feel good season so he was rewarded he’s not even a top five center

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

I didn't say it did, but for the "superstar" that Zion is he's never even gotten his team to the playoffs. That was my point.

Hard to compete when you are on the bench. That, again, is the point.

I guess it depends on what one considers to be the competition they're trying to win.

Generally the bad teams of the NBA aren't recorded in the history books, they are just forgotten.

The good teams make it into the history books, leave a legacy, and are remembered.

I'd like the Kings to field teams that are worth remembering.

 

[Warhawk]

Just asking for an alternative name to Zion..



Sabonis is barley an all star literally made it cause we had a feel good season so he was rewarded he’s not even a top five center

It's not my job to provide an alternative name. I can have an opinion on something without doing your job for you. You are the one clamoring for a replacement, not me.

Ah, the old "he's an all-star, but not a good player" opinion (after having three of the best seasons of his career back-to-back-to-back and improving his 3-pt percentage significantly on increasing volume last year). Nice. Keep going with that one. It will get you far.

 

[Warhawk]

I guess it depends on what one considers to be the competition they're trying to win.

Generally the bad teams of the NBA aren't recorded in the history books, they are just forgotten.

The good teams make it into the history books, leave a legacy, and are remembered.

I'd like the Kings to field teams that are worth remembering.

Exactly how are we going to be worth remembering if the "star" player CAN'T PLAY? He has never played in a playoff game. Ever. What kind of "legacy" is that?

If he shows that he can consistently stay on the court, sure. But as of now, no.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Exactly how are we going to be worth remembering if the "star" player CAN'T PLAY? He has never played in a playoff game. Ever. What kind of "legacy" is that?

If he shows that he can consistently stay on the court, sure. But as of now, no.

I'm saying if Zion doesn't work out, it won't bother people in the long run, because it'll just be another sucky season amongst many. It'll just be flushed down the memory hole, along with 3 out of the last 4 Sabonis seasons.

But what it could be, is a trampoline for the team's future success. Trampolines are fun!

It's not my job to provide an alternative name. I can have an opinion on something without doing your job for you. You are the one clamoring for a replacement, not me.

If you're shooting down other people's ideas, and not providing some of your own, you're effectively arguing for the status quo. Which brings me back to my earlier question.

Because you're satisfied with the performance of the team as it is, and/or because you're predicting that the team will organically grow from building chemistry/stability?

I think that given we're mostly vets at this point, we're more likely headed in the stagnation direction than the grown direction with the current roster. If the team could win, why didn't they do it last year, when Zach was as healthy as he's ever been.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

I didn't say it did, but for the "superstar" that Zion is he's never even gotten his team to the playoffs. That was my point.

Hard to compete when you are on the bench. That, again, is the point. And comparing Sabonis to a "daily-driver compact" is downright silly. He's an all-star.

Edit - a more accurate statement would be he's never played in the play-in/playoffs. But since this post was already quoted, I'm not going to revise the statement in retrospect.

My point is that you're overvaluing reliability.

The best thing Sabonis has ever done for this franchise was to agree to be "injured" for us in the '22 season after we traded for him. That got us Keegan, and set up the "Beam Team"

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I don’t even think we’re a top 11 team next season if our best players are Sabonis, Lavine, and Keegan. Portland, San Antonio, and Dallas will all be better and teams ahead of us aren’t getting worse.

I’d start Monk at pg he’d be fine with Keegan/Ellis backing him and a Monk/Zion pick and roll would be absolute cinema. We could use Derozan to get a defensive center, hell I’d give Utah two first for Kessler dudes an all nba level defender

I mean, we were just a top 9 team with Sabonis, Lavine, and Keegan being our best players.
Dallas just traded their franchise player for some strange odd reason.
Phoenix and Portland were 4 games behind us in the standings, and San Antonio was 6.
The offseason hasn't even started yet. The Draft hasn't even taken place. Free agency hasn't even begun.
And one of those teams just saw their head coach retire, and their assistant coach be elevated to become the head coach.
Are you 100% certain that, RIGHT AT THIS VERY MOMENT, either Phoenix and Portland will be able to gain 5 games on us next season, or San Antonio will be able to gain 7 games on us???

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Just asking for an alternative name to Zion..

Anyone not named Zion. There's your "alternative name".

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I’d much rather see a big swing for the fences than stay pat and guarantee mediocrity.

There are definitely ways for us to "swing for the fences" that don't involve acquiring Zion Williamson.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Sabonis is barley an all star literally made it cause we had a feel good season so he was rewarded he’s not even a top five center

This year, Sabonis' ranks in the major advanced stats are as follows:
Win Shares: Among centers: t-4th; Among all players: t-7th
WS/48: Among centers: 8th; Among all players: 12th
PER: Among centers: 5th; Among all players: 8th
Box Plus-Minus: Among centers: 4th; Among all players: 10th
VORP: Among centers: 2nd; Among all players: 10th

And lest we miss it:
Defensive Rebound %age: Among all players: 1st
Total Rebound %age: Among all players: 1st

Selling Sabonis short is the province of fools and morons.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

This year, Sabonis' ranks in the major advanced stats are as follows:
Win Shares: Among centers: t-4th; Among all players: t-7th
WS/48: Among centers: 8th; Among all players: 12th
PER: Among centers: 5th; Among all players: 8th
Box Plus-Minus: Among centers: 4th; Among all players: 10th
VORP: Among centers: 2nd; Among all players: 10th

And lest we miss it:
Defensive Rebound %age: Among all players: 1st
Total Rebound %age: Among all players: 1st

Selling Sabonis short is the province of fools and morons.

In my "Own Personal Record Book" . I will only count the statistical achievements of players that are on playoff teams. (avoids the good player on bad team conundrum)

 

[Joshyjosh31]

This year, Sabonis' ranks in the major advanced stats are as follows:
Win Shares: Among centers: t-4th; Among all players: t-7th
WS/48: Among centers: 8th; Among all players: 12th
PER: Among centers: 5th; Among all players: 8th
Box Plus-Minus: Among centers: 4th; Among all players: 10th
VORP: Among centers: 2nd; Among all players: 10th

And lest we miss it:
Defensive Rebound %age: Among all players: 1st
Total Rebound %age: Among all players: 1st

Selling Sabonis short is the province of fools and morons.

That’s nice and all but he ain’t an all star player he ain’t getting you buckets when needed he’s a good player but we’re screwed if he’s our best or second best player

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If we want to trade Zach for Zion as some kind of boom or bust move sure whatever but the minute you include two FRPs and you bust, that ain't looking too great.