Salary cap/TPE situation (not for particular player stuff)

#1
I think they gave us more flexibility in future trades which is better than just letting IT walk away.

I can imagine there will be one or more teams needing to slash their salary to open-up more space so they could sign their coveted expensive players. Now we became more attractive trading partner to them because of that TPE.

We can (for example only), say stretch Terry or Even JT or Landry to free-up some of our cap space, then use the $7m TPE to absorb a player like Taj Gibson (if for example Gibson's salary is what it takes for the Bulls to sign both Anthony and Gasol) without giving them back any salary.

I think this is huge. But of course only if the right circumstance/opportunity happens.
150%/125% rule doesn't apply to TPE, only actual salary, so Kings can only take back a player with $7 million or less in salary. Gibson makes $8 million, so he can't be a target with TPE.

Was it confirmed that PDA rejected offers for IT at the trade deadline?
For all we know, teams could have offered only 2nd round picks for IT which isn't really all that better than what they got out of the S&T.
If that was case, PDA probably rolled the dice to see if he could re-sign IT on the cheap rather than make a bad trade mid season.
Actually a couple of second-rounders would likely be better, than TPE, which will push Kings into LT, if used, and rights to Europe-level (might be an overstatement) prospect. Of course, if we are talking second-rounders from Heat, Pacers or Spurs, those are useless in reality as well.
 
#2
150%/125% rule doesn't apply to TPE, only actual salary, so Kings can only take back a player with $7 million or less in salary. Gibson makes $8 million, so he can't be a target with TPE.

Actually a couple of second-rounders would likely be better, than TPE, which will push Kings into LT, if used, and rights to Europe-level (might be an overstatement) prospect. Of course, if we are talking second-rounders from Heat, Pacers or Spurs, those are useless in reality as well.
How near are we on the Luxury Tax line?

I mean the exact amount.

Because it might be prudent to just experiment with a decent shot blocker (one we can use even once in a while and one that may come cheap like Okafor for "one year") with that amount and save the TPE for later use. If I were PDA I'll do this just to experiment and see the big difference of having a shot blocker. It may also appease most KF.com fans who are ready to revolt if we still don't get one shot blocking big. :D
 
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#3
How near are we on the Luxury Tax line?

I mean the exact amount.

Because it might be prudent to just experiment with a decent shot blocker (one we can use even once in a while and one that may come cheap like Okafor for "one year") with that amount and save the TPE for later use. If I were PDA I'll do this just to experiment and see the big difference of having a shot blocker. It may also appease most KF.com fans who are ready to revolt if we still don't get one shot blocking big. :D
They are right at it now. They can go $4 mil over it before hitting the hard cap.
 
#4
How near are we on the Luxury Tax line?

I mean the exact amount.

Because it might be prudent to just experiment with a decent shot blocker (one we can use even once in a while and one that may come cheap like Okafor for "one year") with that amount and save the TPE for later use. If I were PDA I'll do this just to experiment and see the big difference of having a shot blocker. It may also appease most KF.com fans who are ready to revolt if we still don't get one shot blocking big. :D
Going off http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/kings.jsp Kings have about $65,835,000 in salaries plus Collison's new contract. If it was 3-year with standard 4.5% raises it should start with around $5,100,000, which brings team salary to $71 million (13 players). LT level is expected to be around $76.8 million and apron (hard cap) is going to be at $80.8 million.
 
#5
They are right at it now. They can go $4 mil over it before hitting the hard cap.
That $4M is the apron, right?

Do you think it is possible to get Okafor for about $4M and for one year? I mean, the guy is a known shot blocker and will be coming off as a an often-injured player. Or maybe we can try the Miami heat experiment which will be a cheaper experiment with Greg Oden?
 
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#8
So, we have about $5.8M to spend before we can be a first time offender. And we have about $9.8M to spend to be a Luxury Tax paying team.

Right?

Wow.

There is really a big chance the FO is looking for that shot blocking BIG to balance the team even more.
We have a hard cap of $4 mil over the LT tax that we can not go above at any time.
 
#11
From what I have read the exception can't be combined with anything. As far as I can tell it is good for aquiring a player another team wants to dump for salary cap reasons. What other scenario can it be used for? Also we cant use it to go over the cap. So it seems like it would be a miracle to ever use it.
 
#12
I am pretty sure it allows you to take back extra salary in return equal to that of the Trade Esception. So player X makes 3 mil and you trade him for player Y that makes 8 mil. The trade exception allows the salary difference.

edit: The key here is to understand the concept of a non-simultaneous trade. Every trade that fans understand is simultaneous. All the assets traded are traded at once. A trade exception creates the possibility of a non-simultaneous trade. The monetary difference of the TPE exists for a year and can be used in a new trade that essentially becomes a part of the original trade at a much later date.

So instead of the Kings traded IT to Phoenix for nothing. The Kings trade IT to Phoenix for 7 million dollar TPE. Later on, 3 million dollar Kings player is traded for another 9 million dollar player. The 7 mil TPE balances out the 6 millin dollar difference for cap rules. The two separate trades are essentially one trade that had two steps taken at different times.
 
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#13
I am pretty sure it allows you to take back extra salary in return equal to that of the Trade Esception. So player X makes 3 mil and you trade him for player Y that makes 8 mil. The trade exception allows the salary difference.

edit: The key here is to understand the concept of a non-simultaneous trade. Every trade that fans understand is simultaneous. All the assets traded are traded at once. A trade exception creates the possibility of a non-simultaneous trade. The monetary difference of the TPE exists for a year and can be used in a new trade that essentially becomes a part of the original trade at a much later date.

So instead of the Kings traded IT to Phoenix for nothing. The Kings trade IT to Phoenix for 7 million dollar TPE. Later on, 3 million dollar Kings player is traded for another 9 million dollar player. The 7 mil TPE balances out the 6 millin dollar difference for cap rules. The two separate trades are essentially one trade that had two steps taken at different times.
With your explanation, would it be possible to trade someone like JT ($6 mil) and TPE to Milwaukee for Larry sanders (11 mil)?
 
#16
I am pretty sure it allows you to take back extra salary in return equal to that of the Trade Esception. So player X makes 3 mil and you trade him for player Y that makes 8 mil. The trade exception allows the salary difference.

edit: The key here is to understand the concept of a non-simultaneous trade. Every trade that fans understand is simultaneous. All the assets traded are traded at once. A trade exception creates the possibility of a non-simultaneous trade. The monetary difference of the TPE exists for a year and can be used in a new trade that essentially becomes a part of the original trade at a much later date.

So instead of the Kings traded IT to Phoenix for nothing. The Kings trade IT to Phoenix for 7 million dollar TPE. Later on, 3 million dollar Kings player is traded for another 9 million dollar player. The 7 mil TPE balances out the 6 millin dollar difference for cap rules. The two separate trades are essentially one trade that had two steps taken at different times.
Nope. It specifically says in a non simultaneous trade (IE TPE) you can not aggregate salaries.
 
#17
Unless something changed in the last CBA, that's right. Its a one free player coupon.
That is my understanding as well and judging by the contracts handed out off-season you can't even get Jordan Hill for $7.2 million per season. I suspect that even Rudy Gay extension will cost more than we hoped for!
 
#18
Better recheck you numbers. It's $71 mil with IT's cap hold of $2.8 mil. Add another $3 mil to that for collison and thats $74 mil.
Collison is reportedly signed to a $16 million contract ($5.1 million with 4.5% annual raises, not $3 million) and I assumed IT is shipped to the Suns for the rights to Oriakhi (creating TPE along the way), that's why his cap hold is irrelevant or becomes so very soon. But it seems I lost one of many $6 million salaries Kings have, when counting, and it takes team salary to $76.2 million with a few hundred thousand below LT level and $4.6 million below the "apron". This also means that Kings will go into LT territory with another minimum contract.

I am pretty sure it allows you to take back extra salary in return equal to that of the Trade Esception. So player X makes 3 mil and you trade him for player Y that makes 8 mil. The trade exception allows the salary difference.

edit: The key here is to understand the concept of a non-simultaneous trade. Every trade that fans understand is simultaneous. All the assets traded are traded at once. A trade exception creates the possibility of a non-simultaneous trade. The monetary difference of the TPE exists for a year and can be used in a new trade that essentially becomes a part of the original trade at a much later date.
So instead of the Kings traded IT to Phoenix for nothing. The Kings trade IT to Phoenix for 7 million dollar TPE. Later on, 3 million dollar Kings player is traded for another 9 million dollar player. The 7 mil TPE balances out the 6 millin dollar difference for cap rules. The two separate trades are essentially one trade that had two steps taken at different times.
No it does not.
CBA's main idea is to trade for a player(s) teams over the salary cap must have an exception. They can either generate it by sending back salaries or use TPEs left from previous trades. TPEs left from previous trades cannot be combined together or with those generated from salaries.
For example, Thornton-Terry/Evans deal was structured this way from Kings side:
1. Both teams generated TPEs equal to that of Thornton's salary. $8,050,000 (within 125% of Terry's deal as Nets were an LT team)
2. Kings had TPE of $8,050,000, but only acquired Terry's salary of $5,625,313 with it.
3. Kings kept the difference as a separate TPE (around $2.4 million).
4. Evans' salary on the other hand was absorbed using TPE left from a previous trade.
Now to the reported S&T of IT:
1. In every trade both teams must receive at least some asset: a player, a pick or rights to the player. Suns dug deep and instead of usual top-55 protected pick, they found rights to the 57th pick from 2013.
2. Suns have cap space, so they don't need TPE and can just absorb IT's salary. But from Kings perspective $7 million TPE is generated.
3. Kings are not getting salary back, so they keep a TPE equal to IT's new salary.
 
#19
Collison is reportedly signed to a $16 million contract ($5.1 million with 4.5% annual raises, not $3 million) and I assumed IT is shipped to the Suns for the rights to Oriakhi (creating TPE along the way), that's why his cap hold is irrelevant or becomes so very soon. But it seems I lost one of many $6 million salaries Kings have, when counting, and it takes team salary to $76.2 million with a few hundred thousand below LT level and $4.6 million below the "apron". This also means that Kings will go into LT territory with another minimum contract.
The $3 mil was being added to IT's cap hold to make up the difference.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#20
Collison is reportedly signed to a $16 million contract ($5.1 million with 4.5% annual raises, not $3 million) and I assumed IT is shipped to the Suns for the rights to Oriakhi (creating TPE along the way), that's why his cap hold is irrelevant or becomes so very soon. But it seems I lost one of many $6 million salaries Kings have, when counting, and it takes team salary to $76.2 million with a few hundred thousand below LT level and $4.6 million below the "apron". This also means that Kings will go into LT territory with another minimum contract.

No it does not.
CBA's main idea is to trade for a player(s) teams over the salary cap must have an exception. They can either generate it by sending back salaries or use TPEs left from previous trades. TPEs left from previous trades cannot be combined together or with those generated from salaries.
For example, Thornton-Terry/Evans deal was structured this way from Kings side:
1. Both teams generated TPEs equal to that of Thornton's salary. $8,050,000 (within 125% of Terry's deal as Nets were an LT team)
2. Kings had TPE of $8,050,000, but only acquired Terry's salary of $5,625,313 with it.
3. Kings kept the difference as a separate TPE (around $2.4 million).
4. Evans' salary on the other hand was absorbed using TPE left from a previous trade.
Now to the reported S&T of IT:
1. In every trade both teams must receive at least some asset: a player, a pick or rights to the player. Suns dug deep and instead of usual top-55 protected pick, they found rights to the 57th pick from 2013.
2. Suns have cap space, so they don't need TPE and can just absorb IT's salary. But from Kings perspective $7 million TPE is generated.
3. Kings are not getting salary back, so they keep a TPE equal to IT's new salary.
As best I know, we are presently (with the Collison signing) $500,000 below the luxury tax level.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#22
I thought minimum salary contracts do not count towards luxury tax calculations?
There are two caps, one we used to call the salary cap and the other the luxury tax level. I guess you can add the apron which is $4 mil over the luxury tax.

If you are over the salary cap, there are numerous ways of signing players called exceptions. To address your specific example, you can sign anyone to a minimum salary if you are over the salary cap. That salary counts towards the luxury tax.
 
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#24
Well then I honestly don't know what good the TPE is then. There's not a lot of players in the 7 mil range that you could end up in a worthy trade scenario.
Hence the argument that we didn't get nearly as much back from a valuable asset they clearly weren't planning on keeping.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#25
Collison is reportedly signed to a $16 million contract ($5.1 million with 4.5% annual raises, not $3 million) and I assumed IT is shipped to the Suns for the rights to Oriakhi (creating TPE along the way), that's why his cap hold is irrelevant or becomes so very soon. But it seems I lost one of many $6 million salaries Kings have, when counting, and it takes team salary to $76.2 million with a few hundred thousand below LT level and $4.6 million below the "apron". This also means that Kings will go into LT territory with another minimum contract.

No it does not.
CBA's main idea is to trade for a player(s) teams over the salary cap must have an exception. They can either generate it by sending back salaries or use TPEs left from previous trades. TPEs left from previous trades cannot be combined together or with those generated from salaries.
For example, Thornton-Terry/Evans deal was structured this way from Kings side:
1. Both teams generated TPEs equal to that of Thornton's salary. $8,050,000 (within 125% of Terry's deal as Nets were an LT team)
2. Kings had TPE of $8,050,000, but only acquired Terry's salary of $5,625,313 with it.
3. Kings kept the difference as a separate TPE (around $2.4 million).
4. Evans' salary on the other hand was absorbed using TPE left from a previous trade.
Now to the reported S&T of IT:
1. In every trade both teams must receive at least some asset: a player, a pick or rights to the player. Suns dug deep and instead of usual top-55 protected pick, they found rights to the 57th pick from 2013.
2. Suns have cap space, so they don't need TPE and can just absorb IT's salary. But from Kings perspective $7 million TPE is generated.
3. Kings are not getting salary back, so they keep a TPE equal to IT's new salary.
I hope you won't mind going over this again and again if the situation arises. It's a difficult concept to understand at least for me. Today I think I understand it but by tomorrow I may be baffled. I take it the TPE came into being in part to get around the rule that if both teams are over the salary cap, they need to be trading players withing 15%. Is that part of it? In some ways that doesn't make sense either. Crud. :oops:
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#27
It's not nothing. It's a chance to get a player during the next year. If it gets used, fine. If it doesn't, fine too. He was gonna go to Phoenix with or without us getting anything in return.
 
#29
Collison is reportedly signed to a $16 million contract ($5.1 million with 4.5% annual raises, not $3 million) and I assumed IT is shipped to the Suns for the rights to Oriakhi (creating TPE along the way), that's why his cap hold is irrelevant or becomes so very soon. But it seems I lost one of many $6 million salaries Kings have, when counting, and it takes team salary to $76.2 million with a few hundred thousand below LT level and $4.6 million below the "apron". This also means that Kings will go into LT territory with another minimum contract.
If these figures (which somehow agrees with Section101) are near accurate:

Kings Team Salary: $76.2M
Luxury Tax Level: $76.8
Apron: $4M
Hard Cap/Max per NBA team: $80.8

then, it means the Kings can only absorb a maximum of $600K to get another player without paying the Luxury Tax OR we can also absorb a maximum of $4.6M as a Luxury Tax paying team.

This is probably why the Kings were interested on BJ Mullens according to rumors earlier.:p


Maybe Greg Oden (as experimental BIG) would agree for $600K/year?o_O
 
#30
If these figures (which somehow agrees with Section101) are near accurate:

Kings Team Salary: $76.2M
Luxury Tax Level: $76.8
Apron: $4M
Hard Cap/Max per NBA team: $80.8

then, it means the Kings can only absorb a maximum of $600K to get another player without paying the Luxury Tax OR we can also absorb a maximum of $4.6M as a Luxury Tax paying team.

This is probably why the Kings were interested on BJ Mullens according to rumors earlier.:p


Maybe Greg Oden (as experimental BIG) would agree for $600K/year?o_O
We're we seriously interested in mullens? I almost posted that as a joke this week.