Russell Westbrook

To be clear, and I've said this multiple times, I'm giving Perry until the trade deadline to start dumping these vets. It will tell me a lot about whether or not this franchise possesses anything resembling a forward-thinking outlook. Personally, I would have had no problem whatsoever with the Kings dumping DDR for second rounders in the offseason, but if Perry wants to hold out and see if he can squeeze another small asset or two out of a team that thinks any of the Kings' assorted vets are their missing piece at the deadline, then go for it. I'll 100% support it. 👍

What I've not been encouraged by is Perry's and Christie's approach to this supposed "gap year" of Kings basketball. The Kings were under no pressure whatsoever to sign aging vets like Dennis Schroder or Russell Westbrook. They're not a playoff team. They're not one or even two pieces away. Yet huge minutes are currently going to players who aren't long-term pieces, including Perry's Schroder and Westbrook acquisitions. Few minutes are going to Keon Ellis. Even fewer are going to Devin Carter. This does not communicate to me that the franchise is serious about using its "gap year" to evaluate its long-term outlook. We already know everything we could possibly want to know about Westbrook, DeRozan, LaVine, and Schroder. There's nothing to learn. There's no takeaways to discover. Short-sighted, this all is.

So, as a result of the bulk of available minutes going to known quantities who are age 30 and over, the Kings are signaling to me that they're gunning for the play-in, and that they don't care, at present, about developing their younger talent, nor do they seem to care if alienating Keon Ellis results in his decision to walk via free agency. GMs and coaches in the NBA communicate what they value through their decision-making more than their public-facing words. And just about every decision since Perry took over and Christie had the interim tag removed screams play-in or bust.

But again, we'll see. If Perry summons a quick pivot toward a rebuild come February, I and many others will be pleased. GMs around the league expect the Kings to be sellers at the trade deadline, because that's what they should be at the trade deadline. But the Kings have given me no reason to believe that they won't try and "rescue" this first iteration of Perry's roster for short-term gain and play-in glory.

I get what you’re saying, but with the new CBA restrictions, especially how they limit teams’ flexibility in taking on big or mid-sized veteran contracts it’s not that simple. The Kings might not even be able to move those deals without taking back bad money or losing value. At that point, the more realistic approach might just be to let those contracts expire in 2027 and regain flexibility then.
 
I get what you’re saying, but with the new CBA restrictions, especially how they limit teams’ flexibility in taking on big or mid-sized veteran contracts it’s not that simple. The Kings might not even be able to move those deals without taking back bad money or losing value. At that point, the more realistic approach might just be to let those contracts expire in 2027 and regain flexibility then.
I think you absolutely take back bad money on DDR and Monk and ask for first round picks back. Possibly the same for Zach next year (and if he's expiring 50m you should be getting multiple firsts back)

And I think showing that they can contribute on a team at least trying is more beneficial than trying to move them if we made it clear we're throwing games for lotto positioning.
 
I don't even see that as the best case scenario. If Russ turns back the clock like he did in Wednesday's game, the Kings will be able to notch some stray wins against the true basement-dwellers of the NBA, as well as the injured and the load-managed. But I still don't see them topping out above .500 with a first-time head coach and a bottom-5 defense.

Regardless, I think your larger point is your strongest, that this isn't about "tanking" or "honor" or whatever other abstract notion somebody might want to project onto an NBA franchise's intentions. It's about information-gathering. Scott Perry is the Kings' new GM, for better or worse. So he and his front office should be determining which of the Kings' younger players are worth investing in for the long haul. The problem is, it sure looks to me like Perry cares less about doing his diligence, and more about "bringing in his guys". And "his guys" are over-the-hill and past their sell-by date. That does not augur well for this franchise.

Right, I dont really either. But EVEN in the case we actually make a 7 game playoff series, which by all accounts would this team hitting their ceiling... its like what's the point? We made a playoff series to lose in 5 games and we have absolutely nothing to build on towards the future. Are we going to rely on 37 yesr old Russ again to produce next season?

I just want some sort of a plan that doesn't involve us punting the next 2 years to be a 34 win team and THEN realize we have to tear it down.
 
Right, I dont really either. But EVEN in the case we actually make a 7 game playoff series, which by all accounts would this team hitting their ceiling... its like what's the point? We made a playoff series to lose in 5 games and we have absolutely nothing to build on towards the future. Are we going to rely on 37 yesr old Russ again to produce next season?

I just want some sort of a plan that doesn't involve us punting the next 2 years to be a 34 win team and THEN realize we have to tear it down.

What if that plan involves resigning Zach?!
 
To be clear, and I've said this multiple times, I'm giving Perry until the trade deadline to start dumping these vets. It will tell me a lot about whether or not this franchise possesses anything resembling a forward-thinking outlook. Personally, I would have had no problem whatsoever with the Kings dumping DDR for second rounders in the offseason, but if Perry wants to hold out and see if he can squeeze another small asset or two out of a team that thinks any of the Kings' assorted vets are their missing piece at the deadline, then go for it. I'll 100% support it. 👍

What I've not been encouraged by is Perry's and Christie's approach to this supposed "gap year" of Kings basketball. The Kings were under no pressure whatsoever to sign aging vets like Dennis Schroder or Russell Westbrook. They're not a playoff team. They're not one or even two pieces away. Yet huge minutes are currently going to players who aren't long-term pieces, including Perry's Schroder and Westbrook acquisitions. Few minutes are going to Keon Ellis. Even fewer are going to Devin Carter. This does not communicate to me that the franchise is serious about using its "gap year" to evaluate its long-term outlook. We already know everything we could possibly want to know about Westbrook, DeRozan, LaVine, and Schroder. There's nothing to learn. There's no takeaways to discover. Short-sighted, this all is.

So, as a result of the bulk of available minutes going to known quantities who are age 30 and over, the Kings are signaling to me that they're gunning for the play-in, and that they don't care, at present, about developing their younger talent, nor do they seem to care if alienating Keon Ellis results in his decision to walk via free agency. GMs and coaches in the NBA communicate what they value through their decision-making more than their public-facing words. And just about every decision since Perry took over and Christie had the interim tag removed screams play-in or bust.

But again, we'll see. If Perry summons a quick pivot toward a rebuild come February, I and many others will be pleased. GMs around the league expect the Kings to be sellers at the trade deadline, because that's what they should be at the trade deadline. But the Kings have given me no reason to believe that they won't try and "rescue" this first iteration of Perry's roster for short-term gain and play-in glory.

This is where I ultimately have to look at Vivek and the precedent he's set with the near constant leadership turnover. If 48 wins and a 7 game first round loss to the Warriors followed up by 46 wins and the best rated defense this franchise has had in the post-Adelman era is not good enough for Mike Brown and Monte McNair to keep their jobs than the pressure is on for Scott Perry to do something different.

Monte got 5 years as GM during which he drafted Tyrese Haliburton (already looking like a potential Hall of Famer), Davion Mitchell and Neemias Queta (both full-time starters this season), Keegan Murray (this team's best two-way player), Devin Carter (barely playing but making an impact when he does), and signed Keon Ellis (an elite 3 and D role-player) as an undrafted free agent. That's a pretty impressive record of talent acquisition for 5 years of work and should have been enough to put us into the playoff conversation with better asset management and long-term thinking. The relentless pressure to win-now instead of rebuilding through the draft is a big part of why 3 of those players are on other teams now and instead of building around the other 3 we've got perhaps the worst-conceived roster of the last 20 years and are pretty much guaranteed to end the season missing out on both the playoffs and a top 10 pick.

Yeah I guess we're still in wait and see mode with Perry but this all feels doomed from the start because the deck chairs have been swapped out (GM # 4 and Head Coach # 8 since 2013) but the fail-fast methodology that Vivek established as his guiding principle back when he took over is still ruling the day.
 
We are unserious because we don't lose.

Meanwhile unserious Dallas trades Luka, finishes the dreaded 10th and gets rewarded with Cooper Flagg. The lotto's either rigged and we aren't winning it, or it just doesn't matter as much as it used to - there's no way to secure a top 3 pick this year, period.

This is why developement is even more crucial for the Kings right now. The Kings aren't guaranteed to get a top pick, nor are they guaranteed to see a huge rise in value in their veteran contracts, the only thing that can move up in value are players like Carter, Nique, Jones (now gone), etc. The Kings in trying to be "competitive" have squandered away the timing to rise all ships at the same time when it comes to trades, drafts, and development.

Specifically there is no long terms upside letting Russ rack up triple doubles. I get it finally, Vivek's main goal is easy to see, he wants to be entertained from his courtside seat and high five the people behind him after a big dunk. I'm not even sure he cares about winning a ring to be honest. He merely wants to be entertained. Just like there wasn't a long term upside in Zbo being Zbo or Vince Carter having moments to shine. It's the definition of killing time. Maybe Russ can play another 4 years at a top level? Maybe not.
 
Let's talk through BEST case scenario. Russ somehow continues to turn back the clock, has an all star season and we win 46 games off him leading the offense. We're the 7 seed, win the play in for the right to play a team like OKC or Hou or LAL in a playoff series where we will be heavy underdogs

What then? What's next season look like? Or we really trying to build a couple seasons around Russ? And if he turns into a pumpkin next year? Because on our current trajectory, we're not developing any of the 25 and unders while the few minutes they do get, will be gone once Keegan is back. And speaking of Keegan, a growth in his offensive role seems unlikely since we've added Russ as a lead option taking control of the offense.

And thats the best case scenario if everything breaks in our favor. I just don't understand how we are being so short-sighted with our future.

It's not even about tanking either. Its about getting a solid understanding of the guys who can actually be on this team in 2 years and if they're potential core players or not

And if he does some contender will come knocking. The Kings have repeatedly built back up careers with no gain from it during these purgatory years.
 
If it's for half what he makes now whatever.

I mean, Niq/Lavine/Keegan/??/?? with Keon off the bench could be interesting if we move Domas.

Just like Niq/Keon/Keegan/??/Domas could be interesting if we move on from Zach.

But with Vivek calling the shots we're riding out the Zach/Domas duo to 10th for the next however many years (assuming a Zach resign).
 
I mean, Niq/Lavine/Keegan/??/?? with Keon off the bench could be interesting if we move Domas.

Just like Niq/Keon/Keegan/??/Domas could be interesting if we move on from Zach.

But with Vivek calling the shots we're riding out the Zach/Domas duo to 10th for the next however many years (assuming a Zach resign).

No team with Zach LaVine playing a major role on it will ever win anything. His style of basketball is mutually exclusive with winning.
 
This is why developement is even more crucial for the Kings right now. The Kings aren't guaranteed to get a top pick, nor are they guaranteed to see a huge rise in value in their veteran contracts, the only thing that can move up in value are players like Carter, Nique, Jones (now gone), etc. The Kings in trying to be "competitive" have squandered away the timing to rise all ships at the same time when it comes to trades, drafts, and development.

Specifically there is no long terms upside letting Russ rack up triple doubles. I get it finally, Vivek's main goal is easy to see, he wants to be entertained from his courtside seat and high five the people behind him after a big dunk. I'm not even sure he cares about winning a ring to be honest. He merely wants to be entertained. Just like there wasn't a long term upside in Zbo being Zbo or Vince Carter having moments to shine. It's the definition of killing time. Maybe Russ can play another 4 years at a top level? Maybe not.

This is where the Isaac Jones discourse is maddening.

No, he very likely is not going to amount to anything serious as an NBA player. But this was a guy we've spent 2 offseasons developing, he showed he was too good for the G League and then showed he was one of the best players in this summer league. All with intriguing size and athleticism.

By most accounts, him being a UDFA, should be a developmental win. You got a guy to the point where he should have been on an NBA role to see what he is. And we never found out what he might turn into, even if his most likely outcome is a 11th man type.

Queta literally the same exact story. Developed here, too good for g-league/summer league, never got a real opportunity with the Kings and has been a good depth piece for the Celtics before taking over a bigger role this season
 
Queta literally the same exact story. Developed here, too good for g-league/summer league, never got a real opportunity with the Kings and has been a good depth piece for the Celtics before taking over a bigger role this season
Queta spent a large time in the g-league with the Celtics especially his first year. We can torture ourselves over 11-13th men but why?

Carter & Davion Mitchell are bigger concerns. Especially since there was no reason to draft Carter if we aren't going to let him play.
 
No team with Vivek Ranadivé as its owner will ever win anything. His style of ownership is mutually exclusive with "middle of the pack" at best basketball (with periodic, but rather small, glimpses of hope).

Yep, and middle of the pack is a better nightly watch courtside than the alternative. He doesn't want to win, he wants a more watchable/entertaining product. The easiest way to do that is select older players in the draft to fill out the roster and sign older players to star. That way he'll get that buzz and in his mind the adulation from the Kings crowd he so desires.
 
Yep, and middle of the pack is a better nightly watch courtside than the alternative. He doesn't want to win, he wants a more watchable/entertaining product. The easiest way to do that is select older players in the draft to fill out the roster and sign older players to star. That way he'll get that buzz and in his mind the adulation from the Kings crowd he so desires.
I've heard many people that have sat in a room for a one on one conversation say he cares passionately about winning and I am inclined to believe them I just don't think he is willing to accept that putting a G-League team on the NBA court is an acceptable way to get there.
 
I've heard many people that have sat in a room for a one on one conversation say he cares passionately about winning and I am inclined to believe them I just don't think he is willing to accept that putting a G-League team on the NBA court is an acceptable way to get there.

Yeah, but what does "winning" mean to him? I think I know what it is and involves instant gratification. You know how it is going to games live as opposed to stepping away and looking at it from a distance. If I'm there? I want the W too. They aren't seeing that eventual corner coming when true purgatory begins. I don't think he has the capacity to step back and see the long term picture. He never really has unless he had no other choice.
 
Yep, and middle of the pack is a better nightly watch courtside than the alternative. He doesn't want to win, he wants a more watchable/entertaining product. The easiest way to do that is select older players in the draft to fill out the roster and sign older players to star. That way he'll get that buzz and in his mind the adulation from the Kings crowd he so desires.
Top of the pack is also a better nightly watch courtside than the alternative.
 
Yeah, but what does "winning" mean to him? I think I know what it is and involves instant gratification. You know how it is going to games live as opposed to stepping away and looking at it from a distance. If I'm there? I want the W too. They aren't seeing that eventual corner coming when true purgatory begins. I don't think he has the capacity to step back and see the long term picture. He never really has unless he had no other choice.
Honestly think he wants nothing more than to bring a championship to Sacramento and go down as some kind of hero.

Again, we see owners like Clay Bennett rewarded for cheaping out on their players because he got the best damned GM the league has seen this century. It sucks that we're mired in a tough division, the league office doesn't seem to care that we exist and is happy to stick it to us at the end of a game so the favored nation teams get a W, and at the end of the day trying to compete honestly without a top 10 talent is going to keep you from ever getting guys teams like Charlotte and New Orleans get twice a decade.

All we can really do is hope that a GM convinces him to take 2 steps back in the hope of taking a leap, otherwise maybe we get lucky if he gives up and sells and realizes cutting all long term contracts will help the sale - a large part of the Portland rebuild has come from clearing all their long term deals while they were in ownership purgatory.

Or the balls bounce are way twice in a five year span and we become loaded. Not likely.
 
Yeah, but what does "winning" mean to him? I think I know what it is and involves instant gratification. You know how it is going to games live as opposed to stepping away and looking at it from a distance. If I'm there? I want the W too. They aren't seeing that eventual corner coming when true purgatory begins. I don't think he has the capacity to step back and see the long term picture. He never really has unless he had no other choice.

It's so strange, too. He's Big Tech. He comes from the world of "disruption" and "moving fast and breaking things". He stepped into the league talking about jazz hands and 4-on-5. But as an owner, he's mostly had the most conventionally mediocre approach imaginable. Chasing old guys who were once All-Stars. It's the NBA equivalent of investing in Intel in 2025.
 
Honestly think he wants nothing more than to bring a championship to Sacramento and go down as some kind of hero.
I'm sure that he wants that as well.

What I'm not sure of is that he knows how the heck to get there. If you honestly ask me for my honest opinion at this very moment (11/7/2025 at 3:48p PST), I don't think he does.
 
I'm sure that he wants that as well.

What I'm not sure of is that he knows how the heck to get there. If you honestly ask me for my honest opinion at this very moment (11/7/2025 at 3:48p PST), I don't think he does.
It might just be a cultural thing that he doesn't want to put garbage on the floor even if he knows that is the way. Or maybe he is too attached to some of the talent. I think he does take things personally for better and for worse.
 
It might just be a cultural thing that he doesn't want to put garbage on the floor even if he knows that is the way. Or maybe he is too attached to some of the talent. I think he does take things personally for better and for worse.
I doubt that it's a cultural thing (unless I am so out of touch with my own culture that I have been severely blind to that fact).
I do think it's a personal issue/ego issue. And, unfortunately for all of us, only Vivek can fix it. No one's gonna do it for him.
 
This is where the Isaac Jones discourse is maddening.

No, he very likely is not going to amount to anything serious as an NBA player. But this was a guy we've spent 2 offseasons developing, he showed he was too good for the G League and then showed he was one of the best players in this summer league. All with intriguing size and athleticism.

By most accounts, him being a UDFA, should be a developmental win. You got a guy to the point where he should have been on an NBA role to see what he is. And we never found out what he might turn into, even if his most likely outcome is a 11th man type.

Queta literally the same exact story. Developed here, too good for g-league/summer league, never got a real opportunity with the Kings and has been a good depth piece for the Celtics before taking over a bigger role this season

and it's a similar story with Keon Ellis. We wouldn't even know as much about him as we do, had Huerter not been injured and lost rhythm.

They are wasting the young talent that they are fortunate enough to find....and it leads to the one place that is largely considered the place that you don't want to be
 
Back
Top